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Wink's Defense - Long down & Distance

Chris L. : 11/25/2022 9:32 am
It is very frustrating how often this defense gives up long down and distance for third down conversions. Would love to see the stats for this defense on percentage of conversions for third and ten or more yards. My guess is we are alarmingly bad in that department. Don't get me wrong I love Wink's aggressive approach but sometimes you can be TOO aggressive. It seems we blitz ALL the time on third and long. Teams seem to know this and simply drag a crosser underneath and max protect with the backs. There is never anyone in the middle of the field as we are single coverage on all the receivers. This makes for an easy separation, catch and free run to the sticks. Wink has to start mixing it up. Mix in some deep zone coverages to keep the offense from getting to the sticks. We are too predicable in these situations. Tons of long down and distance conversions the last two games and the scheme we are running is part of it.
The Giants  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/25/2022 9:34 am : link
have one of the NFL's top 3rd down defenses.
On the third and 15 TD to the Tight end  
Lowell : 11/25/2022 9:34 am : link
they only rushed four.
Eric not third down defense  
Chris L. : 11/25/2022 9:36 am : link
I am talking third and long (ten yards or more). This should be 90% get off the field and we seem to be giving it up regularly.
The aggressive  
ajr2456 : 11/25/2022 9:37 am : link
Approach was one of the main reasons we won the Baltimore game, among many others this year.
RE: Eric not third down defense  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/25/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15921792 Chris L. said:
Quote:
I am talking third and long (ten yards or more). This should be 90% get off the field and we seem to be giving it up regularly.


Again, the Giants have one of the top third down defenses, that includes from any distance.

Methinks you are upset about yesterday's game where 3/4 of the starting secondary was missing. I think you can connect the dots about why they were worse yesterday, right?
Chris L  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/25/2022 9:39 am : link
Go to the snap count thread and look at who played in the secondary.
Not upset...we are undermanned  
Chris L. : 11/25/2022 9:41 am : link
someone please find out how many third and over ten yards we gave up yesterday. Also happen a bunch of times vs. Lions.
when you have guys who have'nt played and  
Chris L. : 11/25/2022 9:43 am : link
can't cover and you get a team in long down and distance some zone would make a lot of sense. We never do that.
I can’t complain about yesterday’s outcome  
Rick in Dallas : 11/25/2022 9:44 am : link
We had third string players in the secondary and the Cowboys took advantage of our injuries in the second half.


RE: Not upset...we are undermanned  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/25/2022 9:44 am : link
In comment 15921804 Chris L. said:
Quote:
someone please find out how many third and over ten yards we gave up yesterday. Also happen a bunch of times vs. Lions.


And who was missing against the Lions? Xavier McKinney, whose absence has had a huge domino effect on a thin secondary. It forced Love to move to FS and the Giants have had to play guys not ready for prime time at the other safety spot. Then they lost their #1 CB in that game too.

Blaming the defensive staff here seems like baseless scape-goating, especially when you consider they have one of the top 3rd down and red zone defenses in the NFL.

Guess what sucked yesterday too? The Giants red zone defense.
Happened last week as well  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/25/2022 9:48 am : link
I think X being out is impacting things and now Jackson.

Certainly frustrating and that 3rd and 15 that went for a TD maybe should not have even happened with what appears like a earlier blown call.
Eric....I think wink and this coaching  
Chris L. : 11/25/2022 9:53 am : link
staff has done a GREAT job working with what week to week seems to be less and less. I am simply pointing out that when we are lucky enough to get a team in long down and distance we seem to continue to be aggressive putting our 3rd and 4th string secondary players in difficult coverage assignments. Would love to see coverage schemes designed to make the other team punt the ball. At present no matter how many players we send we don't seem to be getting to the QB a whole lot.
Maybe look up the stats  
Jerry in_DC : 11/25/2022 9:54 am : link
If you're going to start a thread?
RE: RE: Eric not third down defense  
M.S. : 11/25/2022 10:00 am : link
In comment 15921797 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15921792 Chris L. said:


Quote:


I am talking third and long (ten yards or more). This should be 90% get off the field and we seem to be giving it up regularly.



Again, the Giants have one of the top third down defenses, that includes from any distance.

Methinks you are upset about yesterday's game where 3/4 of the starting secondary was missing. I think you can connect the dots about why they were worse yesterday, right?

I only wish it was just a seriously depleted secondary that the Giants have to worry about on defense. At the risk of sounding like a forever broken record... for whatever reason and whoever it may be, the Giants Front 7 (or Front 6) simply cannot stop the run. And that's pretty scary considering who our two DTs are. Letting up a miserable 5.2 YPC this season just ain't gonna hack it. And this has been going on for years.
Jerry i watched the game i know  
Chris L. : 11/25/2022 10:06 am : link
what i saw. I looked but can't find a play by play for this game. I do see Cowboys were 7 out of 11 on third down. I am saying at least three of those were third and 10 or longer and I saw a lot of inexperienced CB's left on an island in those situations.
RE: RE: RE: Eric not third down defense  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/25/2022 10:06 am : link
In comment 15921837 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 15921797 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15921792 Chris L. said:


Quote:


I am talking third and long (ten yards or more). This should be 90% get off the field and we seem to be giving it up regularly.



Again, the Giants have one of the top third down defenses, that includes from any distance.

Methinks you are upset about yesterday's game where 3/4 of the starting secondary was missing. I think you can connect the dots about why they were worse yesterday, right?


I only wish it was just a seriously depleted secondary that the Giants have to worry about on defense. At the risk of sounding like a forever broken record... for whatever reason and whoever it may be, the Giants Front 7 (or Front 6) simply cannot stop the run. And that's pretty scary considering who our two DTs are. Letting up a miserable 5.2 YPC this season just ain't gonna hack it. And this has been going on for years.


I agree the run D has been bad. Lawrence and Williams have little behind them and both have played too many plays. Tough as the season plays out and even tougher for a Thursday game. I think it is the ILB's and they need another DL with upper skills added to the mix.
The backups in the secondary  
pjcas18 : 11/25/2022 10:18 am : link
might have had a chance if the pass rush ever got home.

they make a point of telling us every game that Wink's defense blitzes more than any team in the league (they're second actually), but the Giants are at best middle of the pack in QB hurries and pressures, bottom 10 in sacks so the personnel doesn't really match what he wants to do and it's putting more pressure on a beaten up secondary.

I wondered if wink was being too stubborn yesterday leaving Holmes on Lamb in man for so long, but there was probably no one else, so maybe don't blitz since they ate Holmes up. reminded me of leaving Sehorn on TO in 2002.
I’d rather die by the sword  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/25/2022 10:22 am : link
I HATE sitting back in a zone rushing 2 or 3 and giving up 3rd and longs. Go ahead and blitz. I’ve seen enough of the bend don’t break shit for years…
The secondary shattered  
PaulN : 11/25/2022 10:22 am : link
How many defensive linemen have we lost again? Remind me again about the great linebackers we run out every week. Yet we get people that want to and insist on blaming the coaching staff. It's so fucking frustrating what this website was and what it has become. Its not tge coaching, try and just take people's word for it first, then shut up for an hour and think. Then come back and tell us again how you think the coaching staff fucked up.
RE: The secondary shattered  
GiantGrit : 11/25/2022 10:37 am : link
In comment 15921882 PaulN said:
Quote:
How many defensive linemen have we lost again? Remind me again about the great linebackers we run out every week. Yet we get people that want to and insist on blaming the coaching staff. It's so fucking frustrating what this website was and what it has become. Its not tge coaching, try and just take people's word for it first, then shut up for an hour and think. Then come back and tell us again how you think the coaching staff fucked up.


Like some saying they wanted sacks from Thibodeaux yesterday when we have no other edge rushers and CB1, CB2 and FS1 are hurt. It seems like some either never played or coached and have no idea how integrated football is. If you have one hole it can be exploited. The Giants have gaping holes everywhere. If the CB’s can’t hold coverage you’re fxcked.
We always knew there was a depth problem  
mattlawson : 11/25/2022 10:50 am : link
Against good QBs we have little chance with our starters out
Yes we gave up a ton on 3rd and long  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/25/2022 10:57 am : link
What were the expectations with Love and a bunch of 4th and 5th stringers?

They were going to get burned. These guys aren't even 2nd stringers. They are using cast offs. Except maybe Holmes and Flott (rookie) they are playing guys in the back end who shouldn't be playing football
RE: The Giants  
TheBlueprintNC : 11/25/2022 11:14 am : link
In comment 15921788 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have one of the NFL's top 3rd down defenses.


They are missing the 3/4 of their starting secondary.. WTF people
Wink is an Elite DC  
AG5686 : 11/25/2022 11:42 am : link
And we are very lucky to have him...period STOP.
The play in question had a 4th string TE run a simple pattern....our back up, to the back up, couldn't cover it 1 on 1.
I know we are all feeling frustrated,and maybe we got a bit greedy what with the start we had this season,but Wink has 3/4 of his starting DBs out and a core of LBs that never could tackle...what do you expect?
For years everyone complained about soft zones  
edavisiii : 11/25/2022 11:56 am : link
Now we have an aggressive DC. When you attack, if you don't get there you get burned. Face the facts...Dallas has more talent. There is only so much "coaching up" one can do.
The Dal receivers were making good catches in tight coverage - all day  
stoneman : 11/25/2022 12:06 pm : link
Hard to defense that much better, even with starters. Dal was lucky that Gallop played over his head.

As bad as a loss is, there were more positives yesterday than negatives, mostly on defense. Thibs is going to be great. Gotta get healthy on the Oline and start successfully running again.
RE: For years everyone complained about soft zones  
Angel Eyes : 11/25/2022 10:57 pm : link
In comment 15922007 edavisiii said:
Quote:
Now we have an aggressive DC. When you attack, if you don't get there you get burned. Face the facts...Dallas has more talent. There is only so much "coaching up" one can do.

And that's a problem I've had with Martindale all along, we don't get there enough and it's been like that with Graham.
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