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| Matt@MattD366 Daniel Jones has a 6-24 record in games where he has had to throw the ball 32 or more times. NFL teams have averaged 32 or more pass attempts per game every year since 2005. Jones led offenses have failed to score 20 points in 17 of those 30 games. #giants |
Fill in the excuse du jour.
I ve never understood how you and others can label the expressing of the obvious bad circumstances Jones has been saddled quarterback as excuse making.
It s common sense that quarterbacks surrounded by better players, are better, it s true for all of them, even the great ones
In about 5 months you're going to be very disappointed.
Fill in the excuse du jour.
So we shouldn't draft any receivers in upcoming draft or sign any FA either? Got it!
if you are an objective fan of the team - more so than the player - that should tell you everything you need to know. declining the 5th year option also all but sealed DJ’s fate as leaving for free agency next season.
fans need to stop lying to themselves to save face in this epic DJ argument.
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"Yeah, but Jones didn't have ____________."
Fill in the excuse du jour.
So we shouldn't draft any receivers in upcoming draft or sign any FA either? Got it!
Why would you? The won-loss record goes down the more we throw as noted above.
We should Draft Offensive Guards and Running Backs and rush the ball even more.
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I guess he ain’t making chicken salad , huh?
He's not playing a 4th place schedule either.
I’m not sure if this is official, but the only current played SOS I was able to find has us pretty even, yet we have a better record.
In response to the prior post about wr injuries (which is pretty comical coming from a Giants fan): Allen and Williams both played at least 30 games the last two years and they have a combined 11 games this year. I’m pretty sure we’d all signn up for that level of talent availability.
All these excuses by the Herbert apologists get so tiring! He has a career sub-500 record and has never gone to the SB. We must therefore conclude that Herbert is clearly replacement level and will never go to a SB.
Please note that one, and one, of these paragraphs contains sarcastic.
He's 18th in yards and 16th in attempts, that's with extra game (or two) more than a lot of the people ahead of him.
He's 19th in yds/attempt, which has actually gotten a bit better over the last three games.
Before these last two losses, he had three games with 20 or more completions. Against the Bears, he completed 8 passes.
When I watch him play, it seems to me like he simply lacks awareness of what's going on on the field. When I see him run the two minute drills, it always seems sloppy.
We can maybe win with a QB like this, if everything else falls into place, but we shouldn't give him a lot of money.
Short sighted post. Jones passing attempts have increased because the team has not been able to run the ball. They are 7-0 when when they run 30 plus times for over 4ypc. 0-4 when they don't.
The talent on the team right now leads to winning this way. We should be happy the coaches recognize it and Jones is a smaller part of that reasoning than some think and I am not even in pro Jones camp.
The passing attack was supposed to have 4 keys. Galloday/Toney have had 8 catches and one is now gone. Robinson has missed the bulk of the season with injuries. Bellinger has been out a few weeks.
The QBGC continues to show incompetence when looking at this position and offensive football but at least we can read about trimming the fat off and getting a filet mignon.
I keep asking about Herbert to the do it anywayz crowd. B..b...but....arm talent!
I keep asking about Herbert to the do it anywayz crowd. B..b...but....arm talent!
Only idiots don’t see the long term potential in Jones. Idiots like Sy, I guess.
I keep asking about Herbert to the do it anywayz crowd. B..b...but....arm talent!
The most heroic .500 quarterback you’ll ever see.
Before you start talking down to respected members of the site, you might want to at least be accurate.
The Giants beat the Panthers and the Ravens with 103 and 83 yards rushing respectively.
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getting owned by dancing blue bear, good stuff.
I keep asking about Herbert to the do it anywayz crowd. B..b...but....arm talent!
The most heroic .500 quarterback you’ll ever see.
Actually, he probably is. This hasn't even been close to a .500 team around him for the majority of his career.
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"Yeah, but Jones didn't have ____________."
Fill in the excuse du jour.
I ve never understood how you and others can label the expressing of the obvious bad circumstances Jones has been saddled quarterback as excuse making.
It s common sense that quarterbacks surrounded by better players, are better, it s true for all of them, even the great ones
The critiques of Herbert are especially hilarious. There is not one GM in the NFL who would not pick Herbert over Jones. SD is 6th in passing yards, 8th in td's and 14th in scoring despite having the 30th ranked rushing attack and the top two wideouts being Palmer and Carter. The Giants are 28th in passing yards, 28th in passing td's and 21st in scoring despite having a top 5 rushing attack. But according to the DJFC, Herbert and Jones are exactly the same!
I doubt Daboll wants to be hamstrung any further by the mediocrity taking the shotgun snap. Here's news: we are never going to have 10 All-Pros on offense to drag Jones into being a good qb. Say your goodbyes.
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this is a stat that cannot stand. Blame whatever you want - Jones has not shown he can sustain a real aerial attack
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Sustain it with what? Where in the NFL do you see passing games being sustained with horrendous offensive linemen and nonexistent talent at wide receiver? Forget Daniel Jones was ever born… please edify me on where in the sport you see someone succeeding with similar talent to the Giants.
If you guys think the next QB is coming in and turning this same group into a high flying offense, you’re out of your fucking minds.
There is no such thing as a franchise QB that can't sustain an arial attack and quickly and repeatedly lead their team down the field through the air in a shoot out and score. You can argue it how ever you like. The great ones do that. Simms did it. Eli did it. Jones has to be able to do it, and he has not shown he that he can. What ever the reason is - he hasn't.
Look at Tennessee - they are e very good team. Their QB is not able to do that -- and he has the weapons and the line. It has limited their ability to make a real run in the playoffs.
Look at Mahommes, Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Wilson, Allen, Brady and through out history -- you need an arm that can kick up a drive at any given point, and do it again in a successive drive(s), in successive games, in order to be a champion.
Barkley is wearing down, the WR talent is abysmal, the TE depth is poor, and now the OL is banged up.
Leaving the Giants and Jones in a classic state of plausible deniability.
Barkley is wearing down, the WR talent is abysmal, the TE depth is poor, and now the OL is banged up.
Leaving the Giants and Jones in a classic state of plausible deniability.
That is easier when he’s under contract for next season. The issue is, he isn’t. Joe Schoen doesn’t strike me as someone paying big money under that scenario. Looking towards the 2017 Bills seems more likely.
I think the only way he gets franchised is if the Giants win three more games and he's the primary reason why. I don't think there's any chance he gets a multi-year deal from the Giants.
I was talking about Herbert. He gets described as “heroic” around here. Not kidding. His team was predicted to make the playoffs by most, even the Super Bowl by many and yet .500.
Herbert would undoubtedly make an all pro of David Sills. Why he declines doing the same for his own guys is a mystery.
There are likely more than just that one. He is the only one so lost in his delusion that he would put it in writing. We criticize the Maras for running the team like a club where people you like get paid/promoted because they are ‘your guy,’ but it is clear there are a lot of fans on this board who would pay players largely on “I really want him to be good because he is a good dude.”
David Sills is the reason du jour Jones struggles. Even last week I was told Jones was struggling because all he had to throw to was Slayton and Sills despite Sills getting about 5 snaps in the game. They don’t know who the WRs are or what they are doing, just that they must be bad because look at how bad the passing game is.
It looks terrible but without context it’s kind of meaningless.
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Short sighted post. Jones passing attempts have increased because the team has not been able to run the ball. They are 7-0 when when they run 30 plus times for over 4ypc. 0-4 when they don't.
Before you start talking down to respected members of the site, you might want to at least be accurate.
The Giants beat the Panthers and the Ravens with 103 and 83 yards rushing respectively.
Who you? Bw? For some perhaps. Not me. But appreciate your Cap insights and clock building.
To your point. Both the Ravens and Panthers rushed for less than 30 times and in both games the Giants were over 30. Now there is important football basics from that "data" but I already have explained this to you. When you look at the Giants loses the other team has run all over them. This game always has a opponent and those HC's understand the value.
To the post I replied to I just pointed out that is what short sighted (pass attempts) with the make up of the roster.
The QBGC if for poster like Bw and you certainly fit in well with that small exclusive group.
However, winning or keeping the games close for 4qtrs typically allows them to run more often, add more carries and keep balance.
Your cause and effect has holes in its rational.
However, winning or keeping the games close for 4qtrs typically allows them to run more often, add more carries and keep balance.
Your cause and effect has holes in its rational.
I have never said that. I have pointed out the benefits of having a effective run game and how it impacts the pass game. In the Giants case it has led to wins (with other components) but I have never guaranteed victory. You will win more than you lose. This is what history shows.
Now if you give me a strong PB OL with a gifted group on the outside I will and have conceded you can get around having run production issues. If you don't have that element then expect tough sledding.
Go back and look at the Giants the last 17 years. Look at the teams record and the running game (carries, ypa). See what you find. Once you see that you will understand my point better. After that consider my point above and tell me how well the Giants have that "other" component.
What is the Giants record when DJ didn't start for the last 3 years?
They beat the Panthers rushing 33 times for 103 yards, which is 3.1 YPC.
They beat the Ravens rushing 31 for 83 yards, which is 2.7 YPC.
They are not 7-0 when rushing 30 times at 4 YPC. In 2 of their 7 wins, that didn’t happen.
But you don’t seem like the kind of guy to let facts get in the way of a good theory. So have at it.
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And they certainly didn’t run effectively in the Panther and Raven games and still won.
However, winning or keeping the games close for 4qtrs typically allows them to run more often, add more carries and keep balance.
Your cause and effect has holes in its rational.
I have never said that. I have pointed out the benefits of having a effective run game and how it impacts the pass game. In the Giants case it has led to wins (with other components) but I have never guaranteed victory. You will win more than you lose. This is what history shows.
Now if you give me a strong PB OL with a gifted group on the outside I will and have conceded you can get around having run production issues. If you don't have that element then expect tough sledding.
Go back and look at the Giants the last 17 years. Look at the teams record and the running game (carries, ypa). See what you find. Once you see that you will understand my point better. After that consider my point above and tell me how well the Giants have that "other" component.
So you aren’t touting 30 attempts above in your posts? Pivot as needed but that’s what you said.
Of course effective running helps the passing game, but not very interesting is it? Points come out of the passing game. Points are what wins. Effective running is a contributor but not the end all.
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They are 7-0 when when they run 30 plus times for over 4ypc. 0-4 when they don't.
They beat the Panthers rushing 33 times for 103 yards, which is 3.1 YPC.
They beat the Ravens rushing 31 for 83 yards, which is 2.7 YPC.
They are not 7-0 when rushing 30 times at 4 YPC. In 2 of their 7 wins, that didn’t happen.
But you don’t seem like the kind of guy to let facts get in the way of a good theory. So have at it.
And what happened in those two games? You tell me genius which is applicable to what I have consistently said regarding what has helped the Giants win. On top of that look at what the other team did when you apply that to what I have said.
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LOS you’re just making shit up.
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They are 7-0 when when they run 30 plus times for over 4ypc. 0-4 when they don't.
They beat the Panthers rushing 33 times for 103 yards, which is 3.1 YPC.
They beat the Ravens rushing 31 for 83 yards, which is 2.7 YPC.
They are not 7-0 when rushing 30 times at 4 YPC. In 2 of their 7 wins, that didn’t happen.
But you don’t seem like the kind of guy to let facts get in the way of a good theory. So have at it.
And what happened in those two games? You tell me genius which is applicable to what I have consistently said regarding what has helped the Giants win. On top of that look at what the other team did when you apply that to what I have said.
I think the simple way of putting that is: Oh yup. I’m wrong.
They’ll have to rip this one out of LOS’s frozen hands. He’ll hang on forever.
Never said that. I have said as most of the football community recognizes that if you are running the ball 30 times are more with success you will have a lot of favorable carry over to other parts on offense. It football 101. This is particularly important with the limitations the Giants have in PB and outside threats. Jones is certainly a part of it as well.
What Christian failed to consider in the two games against the Ravens and Panthers is the Giants won the turnover battle which helped overcome part of the formula that has worked for this Giants team.
We’ve been over it before how you’re not looking at the context. Winning teams run the ball more because at some point they have the lead and are killing the clock. That doesn’t mean that running it 30 times is why they won.
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Running it 30 times, whether it’s effective or not, is a recipe for winning games?
Never said that. I have said as most of the football community recognizes that if you are running the ball 30 times are more with success you will have a lot of favorable carry over to other parts on offense. It football 101. This is particularly important with the limitations the Giants have in PB and outside threats. Jones is certainly a part of it as well.
What Christian failed to consider in the two games against the Ravens and Panthers is the Giants won the turnover battle which helped overcome part of the formula that has worked for this Giants team.
So it’s either run 30 times or win the turnover battle?
Any other nuances or factors you want to consider like 3rd down success or red zone efficiency, or is it just mostly the 30 carries and turnovers?
In that thread LOS conceded teams with really good quarterbacks don’t need to hit his magical number.
So basically we’re left with: you need to have a really good quarterback, run the ball really well, or get a lot of turnovers, to be a good football team.
This is novel stuff guys.
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In comment 15923026 ajr2456 said:
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Running it 30 times, whether it’s effective or not, is a recipe for winning games?
Never said that. I have said as most of the football community recognizes that if you are running the ball 30 times are more with success you will have a lot of favorable carry over to other parts on offense. It football 101. This is particularly important with the limitations the Giants have in PB and outside threats. Jones is certainly a part of it as well.
What Christian failed to consider in the two games against the Ravens and Panthers is the Giants won the turnover battle which helped overcome part of the formula that has worked for this Giants team.
So it’s either run 30 times or win the turnover battle?
Any other nuances or factors you want to consider like 3rd down success or red zone efficiency, or is it just mostly the 30 carries and turnovers?
Not what I said. Did you look at those years I suggested you look at? I guess not.
Since you bring up 3rd down efficiency I guess you recognize the value of a good running game and how it creates favorable down/distance and uncertainty for the defense having to guard against running on say a 3rd and 3. The percentages are pretty clear on down/distance and positive outcomes. BD has talked about it many times and it is mentioned in the majority of broadcasts. The announcers last game mentioned how McCarthy said his team needs to get at least 30 carries. Go figure.
The majority of the WR’s on this team are jags at best. I am not sold on DJ, but this team is like watching a bad remake of the replacements.
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In comment 15923043 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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In comment 15923026 ajr2456 said:
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Running it 30 times, whether it’s effective or not, is a recipe for winning games?
Never said that. I have said as most of the football community recognizes that if you are running the ball 30 times are more with success you will have a lot of favorable carry over to other parts on offense. It football 101. This is particularly important with the limitations the Giants have in PB and outside threats. Jones is certainly a part of it as well.
What Christian failed to consider in the two games against the Ravens and Panthers is the Giants won the turnover battle which helped overcome part of the formula that has worked for this Giants team.
So it’s either run 30 times or win the turnover battle?
Any other nuances or factors you want to consider like 3rd down success or red zone efficiency, or is it just mostly the 30 carries and turnovers?
Not what I said. Did you look at those years I suggested you look at? I guess not.
Since you bring up 3rd down efficiency I guess you recognize the value of a good running game and how it creates favorable down/distance and uncertainty for the defense having to guard against running on say a 3rd and 3. The percentages are pretty clear on down/distance and positive outcomes. BD has talked about it many times and it is mentioned in the majority of broadcasts. The announcers last game mentioned how McCarthy said his team needs to get at least 30 carries. Go figure.
So now it’s also favorable down and distances that help too. Leading to more conversions and, what do you know, more carries.
Anything else?
In that thread LOS conceded teams with really good quarterbacks don’t need to hit his magical number.
So basically we’re left with: you need to have a really good quarterback, run the ball really well, or get a lot of turnovers, to be a good football team.
This is novel stuff guys.
And defense and specials must not matter.
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There was an outstanding thread a few months ago where Gatorade Dunk showed LOS how often teams compile rushing stats when they are winning.
In that thread LOS conceded teams with really good quarterbacks don’t need to hit his magical number.
So basically we’re left with: you need to have a really good quarterback, run the ball really well, or get a lot of turnovers, to be a good football team.
This is novel stuff guys.
And defense and specials must not matter.
I remember that thread. I believe the spreadsheet analysis and he was pointing out how teams in the lead run more in the 4th QTR. Really not relevant to what I say about the running game but I appreciated his effort.
I get it Christian. I rattled you because I call out your bullshit. But keep at it.
Perhaps take a break from the building the clocks and just give the time sometimes. This is one of those basic concepts that would suffice.
This is an out of context stat that ignores so many relevant variables that it is worthless except as supplemental info.