Dallas has a bunch of receivers constantly hauling in contested catches and the Giant receivers have problems holding onto their few open passes and whatever Golladay is.
for Sy, but my impression is he is saying while Jones does NOT stink, there is nothing “special” about his passing ability and that limits his ceiling.
When I watch Jones, I think of guys like Dilfer, Dalton,Flacco. Not upper tier guys, but if everything broke right, you could have A season and win with them. Schoen and Daboll have said they want to “build something sustainable and consistent here”. That’s not Jones.
I’m betting they put a value on Jones (years and $) and if someone offers him a lot more (very possible), they let him walk draft “their guy” and start Taylor next year. It would likely be a step back in record, but Schoen went through that in Buffalo.
Jones had 6 games left to show he can get it done WITH HIS ARM in the big moments.
First, I’ll admit I’m pro-DJ.
That said, not seeing a part of his game ‘now or in the future’.
A Y/N decision on his Giants future is due soon. At 7Ws the Giants are out of the top 10, and if they get to 9-10Ws and a playoffs, they are 18-20 +in the draft, with not many top QBs to draft but a lot of other holes, including possibly replacing injured recent drafted players.
My question, what does SY do about DJ, knowing a QB rebuild put the team another 2 years away from competing.
If NYG moves on from DJ, I think Tyrod is next years QB until the replacement for DJ is ready to go.
You’re likely correct.
I’m just concerned about resetting the rebuild back further with a new rookie QB, few available this year, the price/ picks to move up to get one, and the other needs, as I had mentioned.
RE: Do the folks making excuse after excuse for Jones
Not understand that it is absolutely possible to evaluate a QB in isolation from the players around him? Those players certainly alter stats, but you can watch a QB on a bad team and see he is good, bad or indifferent. This idea that as long as he has crappy players around him he is nothing but a question mark is silly.
If you are evaluating Slayton, Hodgins, etc, is it also fair to say “well they don’t have much at QB so who knows how good they can be?” Of course not. No problem evaluating every other position in isolation.
Jones has good games and bad games. Thursday was another bad one. Do not understand why folks are so personally invested in defending every throw the guy makes. The 4th and 1 throw was poor. You don’t have to hate the Giants and despise Jones to acknowledge that.
Mike, you never cease to amaze me. You called Thursday’s game a bad one.
The guy scored two TDs- one passing, one running- had an 88.8 QBRating on the AP I use, had no turnovers and led his team to 20 points. Should have been 4 more had the refs not gotten ticky tacky.
Last week Cousins HAD A BAD GAME and only scored 3 points.
I think i read Dallas is the #2 defensive team in the NFL of some sort- in other words, they can bring it. He had practically no run support at all as Saquon went MIA so basically he had to do it all himself. Like i previously said, i wish he had taken off more, but for some reason he didn’t. I think that hurt us. He also was playing with a very depleted OL which I’m sure had an effect in the game plan.
I wouldn’t classify that as a bad game…just a so so game….nothing to write home about but also nothing to throw rocks at him over.
I thought Daboll and the coaching staff deserve tremendous credit for getting this team fired up to start the game. The first half was one of the finest starts I have ever seen from this team in my time as a Giants fan, particularly given the overwhelming odds against them. With the injuries and the Cowboys talent, they could have easily folded before the kickoff. Not only did they not, but they forced the Cowboys to play their game. What a treat! We have found our coach, which is a major accomplishment at this point in the rebuild.
The second half was another story as you pointed out. I thought the decision to go for it on that fourth down was the turning point of the game. In some sense, it was a capitulation to abandon our game, and play their game. Naturally, the debate on this site is who's fault was it - DJ or SB? But the truth is, it was Daboll's fault. Given the close score, he should have punted and continued the sensible approach of the first half. Instead, DJ threw a terrible pass and SB failed to catch a catchable ball. The entire game turned from that point forward and ended with the Cowboys in full control.
Great to see Thibs as a stud. He is definitely making good progress after his slow start, arguably due to his MCL which is a much more severe injury than most understand. Yes, you can play on it after six weeks, but it took me six months before I was running at full speed after I suffered this injury. Excited to see him pair up with Ojulari.
As to Barkley, I do believe he is not playing with the same level of intensity since the contract discussions broke down. Yes, it may be due to injury, but I would say this is more psychological. He literally carried this team on his back for the first nine games and yet he looks around and sees a do nothing guy like Kenny Golladay making a fortune. And all he must be hearing is how DJ deserves big money. I can't imagine his reaction to the realization that the Giants won't pay him. I am not advocating that they should, but simply recognizing how disgusted he must feel. The guy who is most responsible for the seven wins this year will not be getting a Zeke Elliott contract, but will instead likely get franchised and traded. And all this good stuff while KG and DJ will be getting paid handsomely next year. The word disgust probably doesn't do justice for how SB must feel.
So I will not be surprised if it is DJ and KG who are forced to do the heavy lifting over the next six games... and I will therefore not be surprised if the Giants don't make the playoffs.
As to Barkley, I do believe he is not playing with the same level of intensity since the contract discussions broke down. Yes, it may be due to injury, but I would say this is more psychological. He literally carried this team on his back for the first nine games and yet he looks around and sees a do nothing guy like Kenny Golladay making a fortune. And all he must be hearing is how DJ deserves big money. I can't imagine his reaction to the realization that the Giants won't pay him. I am not advocating that they should, but simply recognizing how disgusted he must feel. The guy who is most responsible for the seven wins this year will not be getting a Zeke Elliott contract, but will instead likely get franchised and traded. And all this good stuff while KG and DJ will be getting paid handsomely next year. The word disgust probably doesn't do justice for how SB must feel.
One of the questions people will ask about Daniel Jones and his future with NYG will revolve around upside. Just how good can he actually be? Best case scenario, what is he? We just watched Dak Prescott throw two interceptions in the first half. He was hit just as much if not more than Jones was throughout the game. Nothing mattered. He comes out in the second half and played some of the best QB I have seen all year from around the league. The numbers did not pop off the page, but it was the complexity of his throws and how precise they were. I do not see that in Jones. Both right now and in the future.
This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
Earnest Gray, Johnny Perkins, Byron Williams, Stacy Robinson, Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, and Stephen Baker. Not exactly a fountain of receiving talent there.
RE: Phil Simms had a damned fine career throwing to guys like...
Earnest Gray, Johnny Perkins, Byron Williams, Stacy Robinson, Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, and Stephen Baker. Not exactly a fountain of receiving talent there.
You left off Mark Bávaro and I’m sure Tiki Barber caught a lot of passes too.
One of the questions people will ask about Daniel Jones and his future with NYG will revolve around upside. Just how good can he actually be? Best case scenario, what is he? We just watched Dak Prescott throw two interceptions in the first half. He was hit just as much if not more than Jones was throughout the game. Nothing mattered. He comes out in the second half and played some of the best QB I have seen all year from around the league. The numbers did not pop off the page, but it was the complexity of his throws and how precise they were. I do not see that in Jones. Both right now and in the future.
This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
Clearly bbi believes the evil noodle armed bad progression read spirit of Jones took over ESPN annointed god Dax Prescott for those couple of interceptions.
But he doesn’t take over the game consistently
And seems to be not running possessed anymore
Would be careful to give him a lot of money. This team may need a hard running move the chains type of RB for lower cost ( and miss out on a few big plays) and invest in another IOL and multiple WRs ( plus develop another TE)
We still have a lot of holes. Can’t out scheme everyone Literally we will see the bottom 1/4 or 1/3 of roster turnover again in 2023
DJ is qb hell. Competitive enough to root for him. And leader. But not a guy who will put us over the top consistently without close to top tier talent on offense
And yes, with what he has to work makes evaluating harder. But I only see glimpses. Too much left on the table ( even with less ingredients)
RE: Phil Simms had a damned fine career throwing to guys like...
Earnest Gray, Johnny Perkins, Byron Williams, Stacy Robinson, Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson, Odessa Turner, Mark Ingram, and Stephen Baker. Not exactly a fountain of receiving talent there.
Baker and Ingram were waaaay better than our #1 WR, whoever the hell that is. Manuel and Bavaro were on a different planet.
I did not notice AT limping but that is a good catch. Let's hope it is not that ankle/foot.
Lots of games wind up going to the 4th QTR. The other big thing is there are usually a few plays made or not that change the outcome. Agree that 4th and 1 was huge.
I am good with moving on from Jones if they find someone in the draft. Moving forward, cost and availability in the draft are two big issues. This style of O play opens of the draft pool imv.
For Dallas to win a SB I think they will need two games where Dak wins the game for them. I like him but I have my doubts. I think McCarthy recognizes they will have to be a great running team as part of the equation.
He'll be cut, and lucky to ever see the field again.
Barkley should not be butt hurt after how much he's made for being injured. He should be pressing harder to prove he can do it for an entire season. anything less should see him out the door.
whether a QB switch will set us back. It's when should that switch be made.
It's becoming obvious that DJ is probably not the long term solution, so the sooner the switch is made, the better, if an alternative is available for drafting.
The two reasons to chill with DJ for another year or two is if you think he's the man for the job (looking more and more doubtful with every game), or if it doesn't look likely a replacement is available in the draft and DJ is willing to take a low cost contract.
review. Agree that the game summary is appreciated but unnecessary.
I still think Barkley is either hurt, extremely worn down, or both. He's been the main focus of the offense. Others teams obviously know this, and so he's facing a lot of eight man boxes. That increases the amount of hits he takes. The OL is still below average IMO, especially with all the backups playing. I would like to see more of Brightwell and Breida. They are fresher than Barkley, and are less likely to draw the same amount of attention.
Jones looks like he's leaving plays on the field, but he was relentlessly pressured almost immediately on nearly every drop back that I saw. I was surprised that there weren't more designed runs for him.
I'm waiting until the end of the year for a final verdict on what we should do with Barkley and Jones.
rather than fully scrap the recap, I'd suggest covering the highlights (good and bad) so us dunces can hear the professional has to say about players/coaching.
Plus, I'd love to hear what Sy has to say about the 'holding' on Thibs that us dunces think is holding but doesn't get called. But, I've noticed Sy is quite careful about bashing the refs, likely to keep himself in good standing around the league.
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
of Schoen speaking publicly about extensions was about. I was surprised how candid he was. He's under no obligation to discuss, and it may've caused a problem.
He has all the offensive talent surrounding him and in big games has come up small . Ask die hard Dallas fans what they think about Dak. Overpaid!!
As far as DJ goes I will wait until the end of the season for my evaluation
Having said it is very hard to compare him to Dak snd his supporting cast in a game review.
He has come up small in the past on big plays. Frustrating!!!
I have complete trust in Schoen and Daboll to make accurate assessments on DJ and SB.
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
I can throw dump off passes for easy TDs exploiting our depleted secondary and non-existent coverage LBs. Zach Wilson can't.
First, I’ll admit I’m pro-DJ.
That said, not seeing a part of his game ‘now or in the future’.
A Y/N decision on his Giants future is due soon. At 7Ws the Giants are out of the top 10, and if they get to 9-10Ws and a playoffs, they are 18-20 +in the draft, with not many top QBs to draft but a lot of other holes, including possibly replacing injured recent drafted players.
My question, what does SY do about DJ, knowing a QB rebuild put the team another 2 years away from competing.
I will make a long DJ post at the end of the season with what I would do here
What many need to account for...is if you let DJ walk - where do you go next? An ascending team is going to sign....Baker Mayfield? Jared Goff? Carson Wentz? Geno Smith? Roll with Tyrod?
I have no issue with someone that is Anti-Jones. But you better have an idea on what to do and it better not be "wait for the 2024 Draft"
I have supported Jones but after seeing him throw three piss poor passes to the right flat all I can think of is after almost 4 years of development we have a mediocre QB. Also his run/pass decision making still is not good. There were times when he should have run and did not. If you aren't a great passer you need to be a good runner. wouldn't pay him more than 15 million.
Barkley. He wants be be paid like a superstar. I haven't seen anything super the last two games which just coincides with contract stuff..coincidence??? Running backs don't get better with age, especially those that are injury prone. I would not be resigning Barkley. Actually it may turn out that not extending his contract was a blessing in disguise, given his play of late.
I would not spend big dollars on Jones and Barkley. We have too many needs and neither player is coming up big as we head down the stretch.
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
Dallas has a bunch of receivers constantly hauling in contested catches and the Giant receivers have problems holding onto their few open passes and whatever Golladay is.
Agreed. Dak threw several 3rd down passes high and with confidence that Gallup and Shult and even Frederick would go up and get it.
Don’t see a better option than Jones in 23. I lean towards liking Jones and I certainly understand those that lean the opposite direction. There is a faction of people here though that completely are in denial of the lack of talent Jones has had around him his whole career and this year might be the worst.
I would love to see Jones step on to the field just once with the amount of talent Dak had out there with him. Dak made several throws in that second half that were less than perfect and his guys made plays for him. If we swapped QB’s that game the results would be the same
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
I think all rational posters do support letting the season play out. But it's also reasonable to judge each weekly performance by Jones (not suggesting you have an issue with that).
On a replacement idea for Jones, there are various ways to go on that. IMV, the best idea right now is to continue building a better all-around team and find a QB solution in the '23 draft. And I'm very content going through the inevitable growing pains in that process...
I do the same
Appreciate the flexibility Sy and Eric
I expect you will be able to expand on your thoughts on position/individual play. Your player evaluations are what I (we) really admire and want to know.
some interesting takes.
I have never thought dak was or did anything “special”. Solid starter, good leader but nothing elite in his game. He does a decent job with a stacked deck of talent.
The pronounced difference I saw between the 2 teams passing games was lamb abusing Holmes and gallop ripping down balls in spite of good coverage.
The first half …when under pressure and before we lost flott and went to cb 6/7/8? He was the reason they were losing.
I agree he was better in the 2nd half but I don’t think they threw it 10 times and the only wow throw was the TD to the tight end which was against an inexplicable defense. Dallas ran the ball down our throats. Passed when and how they wanted with 1 legit starter in the back 7.
I do agree that the lack of running the qb has been detrimental not just this week but the last few. I have seen teams do a better job and place a priority on taking that away but it seems the scramble runs are missing as well as some called runs. It seems more important now that the line isn’t run blocking ver well lately on top of the usual pass pro struggles. Giants offense has to steal some 3rd down conversions
It’s hard to dissect some of the short comings with so many injuries but I feel like the coaching staff has not adjusted well to the “blueprint” Seattle put on film. I just don’t feel like offensively our coaches have given the team an advantage the last cpl weeks. McCarthy is not good but I have a ton of respect for the coordinators.
I would not call the 4th and 1 “the play of the game” but I do find it interesting that the blame is placed on 1 person. That was not the general take of the national media or those without any investment in the giants.
There were several pivotal plays and I would put that in the 5-10 range. Besides the 2 calls that swung 8 points there were 2 punts that should have been downed inside the 5, KT missed sack, 2-3 3&longs Giants margin against a good team is so small they need to make 8 of the 10 pivotal plays in a game like that and turn this picks into more then 3 points.
Hoping the mini bye is a good rest and mental reset. Really want to see this team make the playoffs and finish strong
I do the same
Appreciate the flexibility Sy and Eric
I expect you will be able to expand on your thoughts on position/individual play. Your player evaluations are what I (we) really admire and want to know.
Hahaha - yep -- me too
Yeah I don’t read any of the recap. I go straight to the positions reviews and read from there
review. Agree that the game summary is appreciated but unnecessary.
I still think Barkley is either hurt, extremely worn down, or both. He's been the main focus of the offense. Others teams obviously know this, and so he's facing a lot of eight man boxes. That increases the amount of hits he takes. The OL is still below average IMO, especially with all the backups playing. I would like to see more of Brightwell and Breida. They are fresher than Barkley, and are less likely to draw the same amount of attention.
Jones looks like he's leaving plays on the field, but he was relentlessly pressured almost immediately on nearly every drop back that I saw. I was surprised that there weren't more designed runs for him.
I'm waiting until the end of the year for a final verdict on what we should do with Barkley and Jones.
this “relentlessly pressure“ is a BBI meme. The ball wasn’t coming out on time. He’s in the shotgun in order to survey the defense pre-snap, and yet, he gets the snap and hangs onto the ball for three seconds. Of course he is going to get pressure under those circumstances. he doesn’t see the field, he can’t find his hot read, and he misses ducky throws it’s over
Who takes his place? Whatever. There are always options. You can get this level of quarterback play from a lot of players. Spend the money to build the rest of the team, pick a couple of QBs in the draft, it doesn’t even need to be a number one pick, and give yourself some options. Or identify a couple of college quarterbacks coming out on the next year that you want and spend what is necessary to get one. You are going to spend resources trying to rescue Jones iffy career otherwise.
I wonder if I am the only one who just skips your "quick" game recap and goes straight to the player evaluations.
Most of us watched the game. And for those who missed it Eric does a very nice recap.
So what I am suggesting - go straight to the player evaluations. What point does the game recap serve?
In fact you could just start right out with the Studs and Duds section with the rest of the evaluations to follow.
I am not looking to criticize here but only trying to be constructive when I say - You are burying the lead.
CM, you’re not the only one. LOVE the player evaluations and also find myself skipping right to them. Great read and asset for the site and its readers. Thanks Sy!
There is more then 1 reason a qb holds the ball
1 of them is that nobody is open. All due respect that is not something that can be determined from the broadcast copy
I watch the all 22 most weeks (not this week yet) There are times he can’t find the open guy. But more often there is no open guy.
The time from snap to throw CAN be a function of good pass protection but watching the games it seems obvious that the extra time for jones snap to throw is designed movement and scrambles. When they do use straight drop back it is very rare the qb is not moved off his spot. I get that is not “ relentless pressure” in your view but if you think of relentless as extremely often but not necessarily dire it is more true then not
I’m not saying that Jones doesn’t miss guys or should or should not be on the team next year. Only that our receivers need to be sceemed open because they aren’t beating corners on raw talent.
some interesting takes.
I have never thought dak was or did anything “special”. Solid starter, good leader but nothing elite in his game. He does a decent job with a stacked deck of talent.
The pronounced difference I saw between the 2 teams passing games was lamb abusing Holmes and gallop ripping down balls in spite of good coverage.
The first half …when under pressure and before we lost flott and went to cb 6/7/8? He was the reason they were losing.
I agree he was better in the 2nd half but I don’t think they threw it 10 times and the only wow throw was the TD to the tight end which was against an inexplicable defense. Dallas ran the ball down our throats. Passed when and how they wanted with 1 legit starter in the back 7.
I do agree that the lack of running the qb has been detrimental not just this week but the last few. I have seen teams do a better job and place a priority on taking that away but it seems the scramble runs are missing as well as some called runs. It seems more important now that the line isn’t run blocking ver well lately on top of the usual pass pro struggles. Giants offense has to steal some 3rd down conversions
It’s hard to dissect some of the short comings with so many injuries but I feel like the coaching staff has not adjusted well to the “blueprint” Seattle put on film. I just don’t feel like offensively our coaches have given the team an advantage the last cpl weeks. McCarthy is not good but I have a ton of respect for the coordinators.
I would not call the 4th and 1 “the play of the game” but I do find it interesting that the blame is placed on 1 person. That was not the general take of the national media or those without any investment in the giants.
There were several pivotal plays and I would put that in the 5-10 range. Besides the 2 calls that swung 8 points there were 2 punts that should have been downed inside the 5, KT missed sack, 2-3 3&longs Giants margin against a good team is so small they need to make 8 of the 10 pivotal plays in a game like that and turn this picks into more then 3 points.
Hoping the mini bye is a good rest and mental reset. Really want to see this team make the playoffs and finish strong
Did you see the All-22 from the botched 4th and 1? There is a more than 50% chance Barkley scores on the play if the throw was there.
I don't think Dak is special. I think he has and will continue to rank as one of the best 10-12 QBs in football. Prescott made at least 5 throws with a pass rusher inches away or already on him and rarely made the receiver adjust. Good receivers or not, they were impressive throws. One after the other. Let's not act like he s throwing to Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce here.
some interesting takes.
I have never thought dak was or did anything “special”. Solid starter, good leader but nothing elite in his game. He does a decent job with a stacked deck of talent.
The pronounced difference I saw between the 2 teams passing games was lamb abusing Holmes and gallop ripping down balls in spite of good coverage.
The first half …when under pressure and before we lost flott and went to cb 6/7/8? He was the reason they were losing.
I agree he was better in the 2nd half but I don’t think they threw it 10 times and the only wow throw was the TD to the tight end which was against an inexplicable defense. Dallas ran the ball down our throats. Passed when and how they wanted with 1 legit starter in the back 7.
I do agree that the lack of running the qb has been detrimental not just this week but the last few. I have seen teams do a better job and place a priority on taking that away but it seems the scramble runs are missing as well as some called runs. It seems more important now that the line isn’t run blocking ver well lately on top of the usual pass pro struggles. Giants offense has to steal some 3rd down conversions
It’s hard to dissect some of the short comings with so many injuries but I feel like the coaching staff has not adjusted well to the “blueprint” Seattle put on film. I just don’t feel like offensively our coaches have given the team an advantage the last cpl weeks. McCarthy is not good but I have a ton of respect for the coordinators.
I would not call the 4th and 1 “the play of the game” but I do find it interesting that the blame is placed on 1 person. That was not the general take of the national media or those without any investment in the giants.
There were several pivotal plays and I would put that in the 5-10 range. Besides the 2 calls that swung 8 points there were 2 punts that should have been downed inside the 5, KT missed sack, 2-3 3&longs Giants margin against a good team is so small they need to make 8 of the 10 pivotal plays in a game like that and turn this picks into more then 3 points.
Hoping the mini bye is a good rest and mental reset. Really want to see this team make the playoffs and finish strong
you don’t know what you were looking at and think a professional offense is like your local flag tag league where you throw it to the biggest kid on the field. Prescott was correctly reading the defense and that ball was coming out accurately and on time. Prescott was 10-10 and 2 td’s to receivers other than Gallup and Lamb. You think that was an accident?
It's not whether Barkley should have caught the ball or not
But Jones oftem botches critical throws, throwing to the wrong side etc. In this case a properly placed ball is a big play. That's the problem. It was a big play left on the field.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I completely agree with this:
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
I think all rational posters do support letting the season play out. But it's also reasonable to judge each weekly performance by Jones (not suggesting you have an issue with that).
On a replacement idea for Jones, there are various ways to go on that. IMV, the best idea right now is to continue building a better all-around team and find a QB solution in the '23 draft. And I'm very content going through the inevitable growing pains in that process...
One guy I won’t be upset in seeing replace Jones is Herndon Hooker. I know he tore an ACL, and that concerns me, but this may allow for us to draft him late in round one (around 20) if not injured, he would probably be a top 10 pick.
We can draft him and let him slowly recover while playing Tyrod Taylor or Davis Webb (assuming we don’t sign Jones).
you don’t know what you were looking at and think a professional offense is like your local flag tag league where you throw it to the biggest kid on the field. Prescott was correctly reading the defense and that ball was coming out accurately and on time. Prescott was 10-10 and 2 td’s to receivers other than Gallup and Lamb. You think that was an accident? [/quote]
I don’t think it was an accident. I also don’t think it was overly impressive. Dallas dominated the LOS and ran the ball down our throats. Dak completed 6 or 8 passes against a practice squad defensive backfield. There was one throw I was really impressed with. I think dak is a good qb. Not a great qb. If you think he’s great that ok with me. You can DR dak if you like.
If you couldn’t see how overmatched the dbs were then I think it’s you that don’t know what your watching
I think SB should have caught that pass. Sometimes passes aren’t perfect. Make a play!!
Agree with that. I thought Jones had an awful game and missed a lot of throws. But I am so tired of other teams players making plays where it seems like we rarely do. Saquon has been average at best these last 2 weeks.
that Barkley has been averaging 30 yards the last couple of games? Just strange to think Barkley would have otherwise scored an easy TD from a player who seems to have quit this season.
When I watch Jones, I think of guys like Dilfer, Dalton,Flacco. Not upper tier guys, but if everything broke right, you could have A season and win with them. Schoen and Daboll have said they want to “build something sustainable and consistent here”. That’s not Jones.
I’m betting they put a value on Jones (years and $) and if someone offers him a lot more (very possible), they let him walk draft “their guy” and start Taylor next year. It would likely be a step back in record, but Schoen went through that in Buffalo.
Jones had 6 games left to show he can get it done WITH HIS ARM in the big moments.
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First, I’ll admit I’m pro-DJ.
That said, not seeing a part of his game ‘now or in the future’.
A Y/N decision on his Giants future is due soon. At 7Ws the Giants are out of the top 10, and if they get to 9-10Ws and a playoffs, they are 18-20 +in the draft, with not many top QBs to draft but a lot of other holes, including possibly replacing injured recent drafted players.
My question, what does SY do about DJ, knowing a QB rebuild put the team another 2 years away from competing.
If NYG moves on from DJ, I think Tyrod is next years QB until the replacement for DJ is ready to go.
You’re likely correct.
I’m just concerned about resetting the rebuild back further with a new rookie QB, few available this year, the price/ picks to move up to get one, and the other needs, as I had mentioned.
If you are evaluating Slayton, Hodgins, etc, is it also fair to say “well they don’t have much at QB so who knows how good they can be?” Of course not. No problem evaluating every other position in isolation.
Jones has good games and bad games. Thursday was another bad one. Do not understand why folks are so personally invested in defending every throw the guy makes. The 4th and 1 throw was poor. You don’t have to hate the Giants and despise Jones to acknowledge that.
Mike, you never cease to amaze me. You called Thursday’s game a bad one.
The guy scored two TDs- one passing, one running- had an 88.8 QBRating on the AP I use, had no turnovers and led his team to 20 points. Should have been 4 more had the refs not gotten ticky tacky.
Last week Cousins HAD A BAD GAME and only scored 3 points.
I think i read Dallas is the #2 defensive team in the NFL of some sort- in other words, they can bring it. He had practically no run support at all as Saquon went MIA so basically he had to do it all himself. Like i previously said, i wish he had taken off more, but for some reason he didn’t. I think that hurt us. He also was playing with a very depleted OL which I’m sure had an effect in the game plan.
I wouldn’t classify that as a bad game…just a so so game….nothing to write home about but also nothing to throw rocks at him over.
The second half was another story as you pointed out. I thought the decision to go for it on that fourth down was the turning point of the game. In some sense, it was a capitulation to abandon our game, and play their game. Naturally, the debate on this site is who's fault was it - DJ or SB? But the truth is, it was Daboll's fault. Given the close score, he should have punted and continued the sensible approach of the first half. Instead, DJ threw a terrible pass and SB failed to catch a catchable ball. The entire game turned from that point forward and ended with the Cowboys in full control.
Great to see Thibs as a stud. He is definitely making good progress after his slow start, arguably due to his MCL which is a much more severe injury than most understand. Yes, you can play on it after six weeks, but it took me six months before I was running at full speed after I suffered this injury. Excited to see him pair up with Ojulari.
As to Barkley, I do believe he is not playing with the same level of intensity since the contract discussions broke down. Yes, it may be due to injury, but I would say this is more psychological. He literally carried this team on his back for the first nine games and yet he looks around and sees a do nothing guy like Kenny Golladay making a fortune. And all he must be hearing is how DJ deserves big money. I can't imagine his reaction to the realization that the Giants won't pay him. I am not advocating that they should, but simply recognizing how disgusted he must feel. The guy who is most responsible for the seven wins this year will not be getting a Zeke Elliott contract, but will instead likely get franchised and traded. And all this good stuff while KG and DJ will be getting paid handsomely next year. The word disgust probably doesn't do justice for how SB must feel.
So I will not be surprised if it is DJ and KG who are forced to do the heavy lifting over the next six games... and I will therefore not be surprised if the Giants don't make the playoffs.
As to Barkley, I do believe he is not playing with the same level of intensity since the contract discussions broke down. Yes, it may be due to injury, but I would say this is more psychological. He literally carried this team on his back for the first nine games and yet he looks around and sees a do nothing guy like Kenny Golladay making a fortune. And all he must be hearing is how DJ deserves big money. I can't imagine his reaction to the realization that the Giants won't pay him. I am not advocating that they should, but simply recognizing how disgusted he must feel. The guy who is most responsible for the seven wins this year will not be getting a Zeke Elliott contract, but will instead likely get franchised and traded. And all this good stuff while KG and DJ will be getting paid handsomely next year. The word disgust probably doesn't do justice for how SB must feel.
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One of the questions people will ask about Daniel Jones and his future with NYG will revolve around upside. Just how good can he actually be? Best case scenario, what is he? We just watched Dak Prescott throw two interceptions in the first half. He was hit just as much if not more than Jones was throughout the game. Nothing mattered. He comes out in the second half and played some of the best QB I have seen all year from around the league. The numbers did not pop off the page, but it was the complexity of his throws and how precise they were. I do not see that in Jones. Both right now and in the future.
This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You left off Mark Bávaro and I’m sure Tiki Barber caught a lot of passes too.
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In comment 15922746 Sean said:
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One of the questions people will ask about Daniel Jones and his future with NYG will revolve around upside. Just how good can he actually be? Best case scenario, what is he? We just watched Dak Prescott throw two interceptions in the first half. He was hit just as much if not more than Jones was throughout the game. Nothing mattered. He comes out in the second half and played some of the best QB I have seen all year from around the league. The numbers did not pop off the page, but it was the complexity of his throws and how precise they were. I do not see that in Jones. Both right now and in the future.
This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
Clearly bbi believes the evil noodle armed bad progression read spirit of Jones took over ESPN annointed god Dax Prescott for those couple of interceptions.
I saw a video replay of that pass, looked to me like it was tipped at LOS and trajectory was changed. Anyone else see it?
And seems to be not running possessed anymore
Would be careful to give him a lot of money. This team may need a hard running move the chains type of RB for lower cost ( and miss out on a few big plays) and invest in another IOL and multiple WRs ( plus develop another TE)
We still have a lot of holes. Can’t out scheme everyone Literally we will see the bottom 1/4 or 1/3 of roster turnover again in 2023
DJ is qb hell. Competitive enough to root for him. And leader. But not a guy who will put us over the top consistently without close to top tier talent on offense
And yes, with what he has to work makes evaluating harder. But I only see glimpses. Too much left on the table ( even with less ingredients)
Baker and Ingram were waaaay better than our #1 WR, whoever the hell that is. Manuel and Bavaro were on a different planet.
Lots of games wind up going to the 4th QTR. The other big thing is there are usually a few plays made or not that change the outcome. Agree that 4th and 1 was huge.
I am good with moving on from Jones if they find someone in the draft. Moving forward, cost and availability in the draft are two big issues. This style of O play opens of the draft pool imv.
For Dallas to win a SB I think they will need two games where Dak wins the game for them. I like him but I have my doubts. I think McCarthy recognizes they will have to be a great running team as part of the equation.
He'll be cut, and lucky to ever see the field again.
Barkley should not be butt hurt after how much he's made for being injured. He should be pressing harder to prove he can do it for an entire season. anything less should see him out the door.
It's becoming obvious that DJ is probably not the long term solution, so the sooner the switch is made, the better, if an alternative is available for drafting.
The two reasons to chill with DJ for another year or two is if you think he's the man for the job (looking more and more doubtful with every game), or if it doesn't look likely a replacement is available in the draft and DJ is willing to take a low cost contract.
I still think Barkley is either hurt, extremely worn down, or both. He's been the main focus of the offense. Others teams obviously know this, and so he's facing a lot of eight man boxes. That increases the amount of hits he takes. The OL is still below average IMO, especially with all the backups playing. I would like to see more of Brightwell and Breida. They are fresher than Barkley, and are less likely to draw the same amount of attention.
Jones looks like he's leaving plays on the field, but he was relentlessly pressured almost immediately on nearly every drop back that I saw. I was surprised that there weren't more designed runs for him.
I'm waiting until the end of the year for a final verdict on what we should do with Barkley and Jones.
Plus, I'd love to hear what Sy has to say about the 'holding' on Thibs that us dunces think is holding but doesn't get called. But, I've noticed Sy is quite careful about bashing the refs, likely to keep himself in good standing around the league.
This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
We can try to hit a home run and get a shiny new toy, but likely will have a midling draft pick.
As far as DJ goes I will wait until the end of the season for my evaluation
Having said it is very hard to compare him to Dak snd his supporting cast in a game review.
He has come up small in the past on big plays. Frustrating!!!
I have complete trust in Schoen and Daboll to make accurate assessments on DJ and SB.
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This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
I can throw dump off passes for easy TDs exploiting our depleted secondary and non-existent coverage LBs. Zach Wilson can't.
That said, not seeing a part of his game ‘now or in the future’.
A Y/N decision on his Giants future is due soon. At 7Ws the Giants are out of the top 10, and if they get to 9-10Ws and a playoffs, they are 18-20 +in the draft, with not many top QBs to draft but a lot of other holes, including possibly replacing injured recent drafted players.
My question, what does SY do about DJ, knowing a QB rebuild put the team another 2 years away from competing.
I will make a long DJ post at the end of the season with what I would do here
What many need to account for...is if you let DJ walk - where do you go next? An ascending team is going to sign....Baker Mayfield? Jared Goff? Carson Wentz? Geno Smith? Roll with Tyrod?
I have no issue with someone that is Anti-Jones. But you better have an idea on what to do and it better not be "wait for the 2024 Draft"
Barkley. He wants be be paid like a superstar. I haven't seen anything super the last two games which just coincides with contract stuff..coincidence??? Running backs don't get better with age, especially those that are injury prone. I would not be resigning Barkley. Actually it may turn out that not extending his contract was a blessing in disguise, given his play of late.
I would not spend big dollars on Jones and Barkley. We have too many needs and neither player is coming up big as we head down the stretch.
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This such an important point (bold).
I don't care how much talent a QB has around him, he still has to deliver the ball and make quality decisions. Too many on this board incorrectly assume that if Jones is surrounded by more talent, he will automatically be better. That's faulty logic and lazy.
Nothing is easy in the NFL despite what the many members of the DJFC will have you believe.
Too funny….let’s forget the first half, let’s forget the two interceptions, and let’s just look at the passes he made that were good…like the one to that TE who was so wide open there wasn’t anyone near him for 20 yards (the play he leaped over Pinnock).
Bw, I wonder if you would be as gracious to Dimes as you are to Dak if Danny had a first half like Dak did…2 interceptions and no TDs passing or running. I’m glad you are so impressed with Dak for his second half throwing against our backups. Was there anyone within 20 yards of that TE who jumped over a Giant player? Tough throw by Dak indeed…in fact, it was almost over his head.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
Agreed. Dak threw several 3rd down passes high and with confidence that Gallup and Shult and even Frederick would go up and get it.
Sy says something positive about Jones "he's the guy! See Sy said so!"
Sy says something negative about Jones "ehh what does he know?"
I would love to see Jones step on to the field just once with the amount of talent Dak had out there with him. Dak made several throws in that second half that were less than perfect and his guys made plays for him. If we swapped QB’s that game the results would be the same
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
I think all rational posters do support letting the season play out. But it's also reasonable to judge each weekly performance by Jones (not suggesting you have an issue with that).
On a replacement idea for Jones, there are various ways to go on that. IMV, the best idea right now is to continue building a better all-around team and find a QB solution in the '23 draft. And I'm very content going through the inevitable growing pains in that process...
Appreciate the flexibility Sy and Eric
I expect you will be able to expand on your thoughts on position/individual play. Your player evaluations are what I (we) really admire and want to know.
Hahaha - yep -- me too
I have never thought dak was or did anything “special”. Solid starter, good leader but nothing elite in his game. He does a decent job with a stacked deck of talent.
The pronounced difference I saw between the 2 teams passing games was lamb abusing Holmes and gallop ripping down balls in spite of good coverage.
The first half …when under pressure and before we lost flott and went to cb 6/7/8? He was the reason they were losing.
I agree he was better in the 2nd half but I don’t think they threw it 10 times and the only wow throw was the TD to the tight end which was against an inexplicable defense. Dallas ran the ball down our throats. Passed when and how they wanted with 1 legit starter in the back 7.
I do agree that the lack of running the qb has been detrimental not just this week but the last few. I have seen teams do a better job and place a priority on taking that away but it seems the scramble runs are missing as well as some called runs. It seems more important now that the line isn’t run blocking ver well lately on top of the usual pass pro struggles. Giants offense has to steal some 3rd down conversions
It’s hard to dissect some of the short comings with so many injuries but I feel like the coaching staff has not adjusted well to the “blueprint” Seattle put on film. I just don’t feel like offensively our coaches have given the team an advantage the last cpl weeks. McCarthy is not good but I have a ton of respect for the coordinators.
I would not call the 4th and 1 “the play of the game” but I do find it interesting that the blame is placed on 1 person. That was not the general take of the national media or those without any investment in the giants.
There were several pivotal plays and I would put that in the 5-10 range. Besides the 2 calls that swung 8 points there were 2 punts that should have been downed inside the 5, KT missed sack, 2-3 3&longs Giants margin against a good team is so small they need to make 8 of the 10 pivotal plays in a game like that and turn this picks into more then 3 points.
Hoping the mini bye is a good rest and mental reset. Really want to see this team make the playoffs and finish strong
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I do the same
Appreciate the flexibility Sy and Eric
I expect you will be able to expand on your thoughts on position/individual play. Your player evaluations are what I (we) really admire and want to know.
Hahaha - yep -- me too
Yeah I don’t read any of the recap. I go straight to the positions reviews and read from there
I still think Barkley is either hurt, extremely worn down, or both. He's been the main focus of the offense. Others teams obviously know this, and so he's facing a lot of eight man boxes. That increases the amount of hits he takes. The OL is still below average IMO, especially with all the backups playing. I would like to see more of Brightwell and Breida. They are fresher than Barkley, and are less likely to draw the same amount of attention.
Jones looks like he's leaving plays on the field, but he was relentlessly pressured almost immediately on nearly every drop back that I saw. I was surprised that there weren't more designed runs for him.
I'm waiting until the end of the year for a final verdict on what we should do with Barkley and Jones.
Who takes his place? Whatever. There are always options. You can get this level of quarterback play from a lot of players. Spend the money to build the rest of the team, pick a couple of QBs in the draft, it doesn’t even need to be a number one pick, and give yourself some options. Or identify a couple of college quarterbacks coming out on the next year that you want and spend what is necessary to get one. You are going to spend resources trying to rescue Jones iffy career otherwise.
I wonder if I am the only one who just skips your "quick" game recap and goes straight to the player evaluations.
Most of us watched the game. And for those who missed it Eric does a very nice recap.
So what I am suggesting - go straight to the player evaluations. What point does the game recap serve?
In fact you could just start right out with the Studs and Duds section with the rest of the evaluations to follow.
I am not looking to criticize here but only trying to be constructive when I say - You are burying the lead.
CM, you’re not the only one. LOVE the player evaluations and also find myself skipping right to them. Great read and asset for the site and its readers. Thanks Sy!
Forget it, he's rolling.
1 of them is that nobody is open. All due respect that is not something that can be determined from the broadcast copy
I watch the all 22 most weeks (not this week yet) There are times he can’t find the open guy. But more often there is no open guy.
The time from snap to throw CAN be a function of good pass protection but watching the games it seems obvious that the extra time for jones snap to throw is designed movement and scrambles. When they do use straight drop back it is very rare the qb is not moved off his spot. I get that is not “ relentless pressure” in your view but if you think of relentless as extremely often but not necessarily dire it is more true then not
I’m not saying that Jones doesn’t miss guys or should or should not be on the team next year. Only that our receivers need to be sceemed open because they aren’t beating corners on raw talent.
I have never thought dak was or did anything “special”. Solid starter, good leader but nothing elite in his game. He does a decent job with a stacked deck of talent.
The pronounced difference I saw between the 2 teams passing games was lamb abusing Holmes and gallop ripping down balls in spite of good coverage.
The first half …when under pressure and before we lost flott and went to cb 6/7/8? He was the reason they were losing.
I agree he was better in the 2nd half but I don’t think they threw it 10 times and the only wow throw was the TD to the tight end which was against an inexplicable defense. Dallas ran the ball down our throats. Passed when and how they wanted with 1 legit starter in the back 7.
I do agree that the lack of running the qb has been detrimental not just this week but the last few. I have seen teams do a better job and place a priority on taking that away but it seems the scramble runs are missing as well as some called runs. It seems more important now that the line isn’t run blocking ver well lately on top of the usual pass pro struggles. Giants offense has to steal some 3rd down conversions
It’s hard to dissect some of the short comings with so many injuries but I feel like the coaching staff has not adjusted well to the “blueprint” Seattle put on film. I just don’t feel like offensively our coaches have given the team an advantage the last cpl weeks. McCarthy is not good but I have a ton of respect for the coordinators.
I would not call the 4th and 1 “the play of the game” but I do find it interesting that the blame is placed on 1 person. That was not the general take of the national media or those without any investment in the giants.
There were several pivotal plays and I would put that in the 5-10 range. Besides the 2 calls that swung 8 points there were 2 punts that should have been downed inside the 5, KT missed sack, 2-3 3&longs Giants margin against a good team is so small they need to make 8 of the 10 pivotal plays in a game like that and turn this picks into more then 3 points.
Hoping the mini bye is a good rest and mental reset. Really want to see this team make the playoffs and finish strong
Did you see the All-22 from the botched 4th and 1? There is a more than 50% chance Barkley scores on the play if the throw was there.
I don't think Dak is special. I think he has and will continue to rank as one of the best 10-12 QBs in football. Prescott made at least 5 throws with a pass rusher inches away or already on him and rarely made the receiver adjust. Good receivers or not, they were impressive throws. One after the other. Let's not act like he s throwing to Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce here.
I have never thought dak was or did anything “special”. Solid starter, good leader but nothing elite in his game. He does a decent job with a stacked deck of talent.
The pronounced difference I saw between the 2 teams passing games was lamb abusing Holmes and gallop ripping down balls in spite of good coverage.
The first half …when under pressure and before we lost flott and went to cb 6/7/8? He was the reason they were losing.
I agree he was better in the 2nd half but I don’t think they threw it 10 times and the only wow throw was the TD to the tight end which was against an inexplicable defense. Dallas ran the ball down our throats. Passed when and how they wanted with 1 legit starter in the back 7.
I do agree that the lack of running the qb has been detrimental not just this week but the last few. I have seen teams do a better job and place a priority on taking that away but it seems the scramble runs are missing as well as some called runs. It seems more important now that the line isn’t run blocking ver well lately on top of the usual pass pro struggles. Giants offense has to steal some 3rd down conversions
It’s hard to dissect some of the short comings with so many injuries but I feel like the coaching staff has not adjusted well to the “blueprint” Seattle put on film. I just don’t feel like offensively our coaches have given the team an advantage the last cpl weeks. McCarthy is not good but I have a ton of respect for the coordinators.
I would not call the 4th and 1 “the play of the game” but I do find it interesting that the blame is placed on 1 person. That was not the general take of the national media or those without any investment in the giants.
There were several pivotal plays and I would put that in the 5-10 range. Besides the 2 calls that swung 8 points there were 2 punts that should have been downed inside the 5, KT missed sack, 2-3 3&longs Giants margin against a good team is so small they need to make 8 of the 10 pivotal plays in a game like that and turn this picks into more then 3 points.
Hoping the mini bye is a good rest and mental reset. Really want to see this team make the playoffs and finish strong
But Jones oftem botches critical throws, throwing to the wrong side etc. In this case a properly placed ball is a big play. That's the problem. It was a big play left on the field.
Quote:
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
I think all rational posters do support letting the season play out. But it's also reasonable to judge each weekly performance by Jones (not suggesting you have an issue with that).
On a replacement idea for Jones, there are various ways to go on that. IMV, the best idea right now is to continue building a better all-around team and find a QB solution in the '23 draft. And I'm very content going through the inevitable growing pains in that process...
One guy I won’t be upset in seeing replace Jones is Herndon Hooker. I know he tore an ACL, and that concerns me, but this may allow for us to draft him late in round one (around 20) if not injured, he would probably be a top 10 pick.
We can draft him and let him slowly recover while playing Tyrod Taylor or Davis Webb (assuming we don’t sign Jones).
you don’t know what you were looking at and think a professional offense is like your local flag tag league where you throw it to the biggest kid on the field. Prescott was correctly reading the defense and that ball was coming out accurately and on time. Prescott was 10-10 and 2 td’s to receivers other than Gallup and Lamb. You think that was an accident? [/quote]
I don’t think it was an accident. I also don’t think it was overly impressive. Dallas dominated the LOS and ran the ball down our throats. Dak completed 6 or 8 passes against a practice squad defensive backfield. There was one throw I was really impressed with. I think dak is a good qb. Not a great qb. If you think he’s great that ok with me. You can DR dak if you like.
If you couldn’t see how overmatched the dbs were then I think it’s you that don’t know what your watching
Agree with that. I thought Jones had an awful game and missed a lot of throws. But I am so tired of other teams players making plays where it seems like we rarely do. Saquon has been average at best these last 2 weeks.
I am guessing he meant Meggett