You might as well just tear it down and hope for a new coaching staff to come in and in 4-5 years from now, if by some miracle we have a better QB that we drafted along the way and he's also somehow better than Jones is now, maybe that will be a solution. Daboll, Kafka, and Wink arent going to stick around for years to see that happen.
The thought of moving on from Jones and Barkley is tiresome and really shows a lack of pulse on what the overall situation with the Giants is right now.
The Giants probably won't do it but you're overrating what possibly Jones and Barkley are. As a result, it’s highly possible the other way around that you would have wasted Dabol for several years without nothing more than mediocrity. Then just like with Jones you'd hear "A coach is supposed to elevate his team and ff he can't win . . . "
It's highly possible Barkley gets hurt. It's highly possible Jones is bottom tier mediocre QB which means 3rd or 4th place in the Division. Because they didn’t make moves early - you don’t think in Year 3 three won’t be talk of having these guys fired if they aren’t projected to be a strong team in the Division?
Barkley is a big problem though due to injury and the position he plays. So if you want to talk 3-4 years down the road, where might the Giants offense be with a hurt Barkley? If you think we'd be okay but not a threat to be a title contender, then what's the big dela letting him go?
And as a result, sticking with Jones in mediocrity if he is that might be the worst possible thing for Dabol after 3-4 years.
Sure. Barf. BUT we are only rolling with baker mayfield until we get the next Mahommes. How long could that possibly take?
True! Better to overpay an average QB and never have a shot a being a real SB contender. Always good to make decisions based on fear!
You just aren't bright enough to realize you are never getting Mahomes. You don't make decsions on stupidity. And your comments are nothing but stupidity.
RE: People really need to stop pretending that if we move
on from Jones, we will automatically be able to draft the next Josh Allen in this years draft.
Who is making that assertion?
The goal is to find a better QB than Jones. And that shouldn't be too hard with the right decision makers in place.
Are you really going to be upset if we move on from Jones? Really? Daniel Jones?
He's not Joe Montana. He's not John Elway. He's not Eli Manning. He's not even Joe Flacco.
Jones is one of the more dispensable QBs currently in the NFL.
Well bw, since the chances of the Giants getting a Hall of Fame QB anytime soon are rather low, there are 27 of them in the SB era, who do you want to get? If they move on from Jones the idea would be to improve the position, not just move on from a player you can't stand. Terps isn't around so lets not pontificate that Case Keenum or Mike Glennon would be an improvement.
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
I think all rational posters do support letting the season play out. But it's also reasonable to judge each weekly performance by Jones (not suggesting you have an issue with that).
On a replacement idea for Jones, there are various ways to go on that. IMV, the best idea right now is to continue building a better all-around team and find a QB solution in the '23 draft. And I'm very content going through the inevitable growing pains in that process...
One guy I won’t be upset in seeing replace Jones is Herndon Hooker. I know he tore an ACL, and that concerns me, but this may allow for us to draft him late in round one (around 20) if not injured, he would probably be a top 10 pick.
We can draft him and let him slowly recover while playing Tyrod Taylor or Davis Webb (assuming we don’t sign Jones).
Isn’t Hooker as old as DJ?
RE: People really need to stop pretending that if we move
on from Jones, we will automatically be able to draft the next Josh Allen in this years draft.
It's an absurd thought.
For every Allen that makes it, there are 10 similar QB prospects that dont.
And that's assuming we can even pick in the top 10-15, where most of these prospects end up (Newsflash: we wont be next year).
Maybe we win the lottery and strike gold on a prospect and can develop him over a few years, but it's far more likely we dont.
What a backwards way of thinking. So, the Chiefs shoulda just settled for Alex Smith? Bills shoulda settled for Taylor.
Teams get rid of bad/average QBs all the time, and you're right, it doesn't always work out. However, what if it does? What if the Giants end up with a top 5 QB?
With this coaching staff, that already worked miracles with DJ to make him a top 20-25 QB, imagine what could happen if they groomed one from day one. Stop settling for OK...gotta but a ticket to win the lottery.
I'm going to jump through hoops to justify sticking with jones" is no way to live.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
That's great Hammer, but assertations are not a plan. What is the plan? It's great to say we have to improve and it is very cool to say searching for great is hard and scary, but the goal would be to improve the position. I'm all for actually improving the position, if and when there is a reasonable alternative and just sating that search for greatness is hard and scary does nothing for me. The Giants have X amount of money and draft capital, it needs to be used wisely. If we had the 2nd pick in the draft and their is a guy that Schoen loves there than that's one thing, bringing in Andy Dalton because many blame Jones for every problem on the offense is another. BTW if they use all sorts of draft capital to move up for a QB, what is he going to have around him, because if it's this, he is going to have to be very, very special to overcome it.
RE: RE: People really need to stop pretending that if we move
on from Jones, we will automatically be able to draft the next Josh Allen in this years draft.
It's an absurd thought.
For every Allen that makes it, there are 10 similar QB prospects that dont.
And that's assuming we can even pick in the top 10-15, where most of these prospects end up (Newsflash: we wont be next year).
Maybe we win the lottery and strike gold on a prospect and can develop him over a few years, but it's far more likely we dont.
What a backwards way of thinking. So, the Chiefs shoulda just settled for Alex Smith? Bills shoulda settled for Taylor.
Teams get rid of bad/average QBs all the time, and you're right, it doesn't always work out. However, what if it does? What if the Giants end up with a top 5 QB?
With this coaching staff, that already worked miracles with DJ to make him a top 20-25 QB, imagine what could happen if they groomed one from day one. Stop settling for OK...gotta but a ticket to win the lottery.
And you have to realize that winning the lottery is very very difficult to do. Sure buy a ticket, but that can't be the plan.
I'm going to jump through hoops to justify sticking with jones" is no way to live.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
That's great Hammer, but assertations are not a plan. What is the plan? It's great to say we have to improve and it is very cool to say searching for great is hard and scary, but the goal would be to improve the position. I'm all for actually improving the position, if and when there is a reasonable alternative and just sating that search for greatness is hard and scary does nothing for me. The Giants have X amount of money and draft capital, it needs to be used wisely. If we had the 2nd pick in the draft and their is a guy that Schoen loves there than that's one thing, bringing in Andy Dalton because many blame Jones for every problem on the offense is another. BTW if they use all sorts of draft capital to move up for a QB, what is he going to have around him, because if it's this, he is going to have to be very, very special to overcome it.
You've stated the goal pretty clearly. Improve the QB position, but also, improve the talent level of the roster. Both are needed.
What no one seems willing to accept is that the QB improvement may not happen immediately, and that is why they are clutching on to Jones even though he may very well not be good enough. He's good enough for people to receive happiness from regular season wins. He may not be good enough for this coaching staff and GM to fit their vision and plan.
Sticking with Jones at considerable cost because a better option isn't immediately clear is still not a plan. 30 million in franchise tag money for one year of Jones is 30 million in cap dollars not being spent on the 52 other roster spots or re-signing the players worth keeping.
I'm going to jump through hoops to justify sticking with jones" is no way to live.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
That's great Hammer, but assertations are not a plan. What is the plan? It's great to say we have to improve and it is very cool to say searching for great is hard and scary, but the goal would be to improve the position. I'm all for actually improving the position, if and when there is a reasonable alternative and just sating that search for greatness is hard and scary does nothing for me. The Giants have X amount of money and draft capital, it needs to be used wisely. If we had the 2nd pick in the draft and their is a guy that Schoen loves there than that's one thing, bringing in Andy Dalton because many blame Jones for every problem on the offense is another. BTW if they use all sorts of draft capital to move up for a QB, what is he going to have around him, because if it's this, he is going to have to be very, very special to overcome it.
That's why they call it a rebuild.
Enjoy the 7-4 record all you can but don't let it cloud your judgment. There are still some big pieces missing here and work to do to further develop the roster including at QB. All options to upgrade key positions for the future should be explored versus staying the course with a product that has had some short-term but flawed successes.
The goal is to create a team that can truly compete for a championships.
The thought of moving on from Jones and Barkley is tiresome and really shows a lack of pulse on what the overall situation with the Giants is right now.
The Giants probably won't do it but you're overrating what possibly Jones and Barkley are. As a result, it’s highly possible the other way around that you would have wasted Dabol for several years without nothing more than mediocrity. Then just like with Jones you'd hear "A coach is supposed to elevate his team and ff he can't win . . . "
It's highly possible Barkley gets hurt. It's highly possible Jones is bottom tier mediocre QB which means 3rd or 4th place in the Division. Because they didn’t make moves early - you don’t think in Year 3 three won’t be talk of having these guys fired if they aren’t projected to be a strong team in the Division?
Barkley is a big problem though due to injury and the position he plays. So if you want to talk 3-4 years down the road, where might the Giants offense be with a hurt Barkley? If you think we'd be okay but not a threat to be a title contender, then what's the big dela letting him go?
And as a result, sticking with Jones in mediocrity if he is that might be the worst possible thing for Dabol after 3-4 years.
Quote:
In comment 15923259 g56blue10 said:
Quote:
Barf 🤮
Sure. Barf. BUT we are only rolling with baker mayfield until we get the next Mahommes. How long could that possibly take?
True! Better to overpay an average QB and never have a shot a being a real SB contender. Always good to make decisions based on fear!
You just aren't bright enough to realize you are never getting Mahomes. You don't make decsions on stupidity. And your comments are nothing but stupidity.
Who is making that assertion?
The goal is to find a better QB than Jones. And that shouldn't be too hard with the right decision makers in place.
Are you really going to be upset if we move on from Jones? Really? Daniel Jones?
He's not Joe Montana. He's not John Elway. He's not Eli Manning. He's not even Joe Flacco.
Jones is one of the more dispensable QBs currently in the NFL.
Quote:
on from Jones, we will automatically be able to draft the next Josh Allen in this years draft.
Who is making that assertion?
The goal is to find a better QB than Jones. And that shouldn't be too hard with the right decision makers in place.
Are you really going to be upset if we move on from Jones? Really? Daniel Jones?
He's not Joe Montana. He's not John Elway. He's not Eli Manning. He's not even Joe Flacco.
Jones is one of the more dispensable QBs currently in the NFL.
Well bw, since the chances of the Giants getting a Hall of Fame QB anytime soon are rather low, there are 27 of them in the SB era, who do you want to get? If they move on from Jones the idea would be to improve the position, not just move on from a player you can't stand. Terps isn't around so lets not pontificate that Case Keenum or Mike Glennon would be an improvement.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
I'll also add, draft a quarterback ONLY if you really like the upside, whatever round that is.
Year 2 with an influx of players and leftovers who understand what the staff wants will be critical to competing in 2023.
Quote:
In comment 15923047 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
You do realize Sy said Dak's second half was as good as any he's seen this year. So, I encourage you to direct similar comments to him as well...
You don't consider him part of the anti-Jones crowd...do you?
No, I don’t consider Sy part of the “we must move past Jones” crowd. I think it’s pretty obvious, he is using this whole year and will continue to do so (next 7 games) to evaluate Jones BEFORE rendering his opinion on what the Giants should do.
He is also pretty smart in realizing that if you move on from Jones, who takes his place? Will the next guy be an upgrade? We all know the draft is a gamble having seen time and time again top rated/drafted kids not living up to the hype.
That is also something very important to ponder…
Step one- should I move past Jones
Step two- how and who to replace him
I hope and trust Schoen and Daboll got this….I will accept their opinion over mine (in other words, if they move past Jones, so will I).
I think all rational posters do support letting the season play out. But it's also reasonable to judge each weekly performance by Jones (not suggesting you have an issue with that).
On a replacement idea for Jones, there are various ways to go on that. IMV, the best idea right now is to continue building a better all-around team and find a QB solution in the '23 draft. And I'm very content going through the inevitable growing pains in that process...
One guy I won’t be upset in seeing replace Jones is Herndon Hooker. I know he tore an ACL, and that concerns me, but this may allow for us to draft him late in round one (around 20) if not injured, he would probably be a top 10 pick.
We can draft him and let him slowly recover while playing Tyrod Taylor or Davis Webb (assuming we don’t sign Jones).
Isn’t Hooker as old as DJ?
It's an absurd thought.
For every Allen that makes it, there are 10 similar QB prospects that dont.
And that's assuming we can even pick in the top 10-15, where most of these prospects end up (Newsflash: we wont be next year).
Maybe we win the lottery and strike gold on a prospect and can develop him over a few years, but it's far more likely we dont.
What a backwards way of thinking. So, the Chiefs shoulda just settled for Alex Smith? Bills shoulda settled for Taylor.
Teams get rid of bad/average QBs all the time, and you're right, it doesn't always work out. However, what if it does? What if the Giants end up with a top 5 QB?
With this coaching staff, that already worked miracles with DJ to make him a top 20-25 QB, imagine what could happen if they groomed one from day one. Stop settling for OK...gotta but a ticket to win the lottery.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
That's great Hammer, but assertations are not a plan. What is the plan? It's great to say we have to improve and it is very cool to say searching for great is hard and scary, but the goal would be to improve the position. I'm all for actually improving the position, if and when there is a reasonable alternative and just sating that search for greatness is hard and scary does nothing for me. The Giants have X amount of money and draft capital, it needs to be used wisely. If we had the 2nd pick in the draft and their is a guy that Schoen loves there than that's one thing, bringing in Andy Dalton because many blame Jones for every problem on the offense is another. BTW if they use all sorts of draft capital to move up for a QB, what is he going to have around him, because if it's this, he is going to have to be very, very special to overcome it.
Quote:
on from Jones, we will automatically be able to draft the next Josh Allen in this years draft.
It's an absurd thought.
For every Allen that makes it, there are 10 similar QB prospects that dont.
And that's assuming we can even pick in the top 10-15, where most of these prospects end up (Newsflash: we wont be next year).
Maybe we win the lottery and strike gold on a prospect and can develop him over a few years, but it's far more likely we dont.
What a backwards way of thinking. So, the Chiefs shoulda just settled for Alex Smith? Bills shoulda settled for Taylor.
Teams get rid of bad/average QBs all the time, and you're right, it doesn't always work out. However, what if it does? What if the Giants end up with a top 5 QB?
With this coaching staff, that already worked miracles with DJ to make him a top 20-25 QB, imagine what could happen if they groomed one from day one. Stop settling for OK...gotta but a ticket to win the lottery.
And you have to realize that winning the lottery is very very difficult to do. Sure buy a ticket, but that can't be the plan.
Quote:
I'm going to jump through hoops to justify sticking with jones" is no way to live.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
That's great Hammer, but assertations are not a plan. What is the plan? It's great to say we have to improve and it is very cool to say searching for great is hard and scary, but the goal would be to improve the position. I'm all for actually improving the position, if and when there is a reasonable alternative and just sating that search for greatness is hard and scary does nothing for me. The Giants have X amount of money and draft capital, it needs to be used wisely. If we had the 2nd pick in the draft and their is a guy that Schoen loves there than that's one thing, bringing in Andy Dalton because many blame Jones for every problem on the offense is another. BTW if they use all sorts of draft capital to move up for a QB, what is he going to have around him, because if it's this, he is going to have to be very, very special to overcome it.
You've stated the goal pretty clearly. Improve the QB position, but also, improve the talent level of the roster. Both are needed.
What no one seems willing to accept is that the QB improvement may not happen immediately, and that is why they are clutching on to Jones even though he may very well not be good enough. He's good enough for people to receive happiness from regular season wins. He may not be good enough for this coaching staff and GM to fit their vision and plan.
Sticking with Jones at considerable cost because a better option isn't immediately clear is still not a plan. 30 million in franchise tag money for one year of Jones is 30 million in cap dollars not being spent on the 52 other roster spots or re-signing the players worth keeping.
Quote:
I'm going to jump through hoops to justify sticking with jones" is no way to live.
You can't ask players to be fearless but build a team around settling for known average because searching for great is hard and scary.
That's great Hammer, but assertations are not a plan. What is the plan? It's great to say we have to improve and it is very cool to say searching for great is hard and scary, but the goal would be to improve the position. I'm all for actually improving the position, if and when there is a reasonable alternative and just sating that search for greatness is hard and scary does nothing for me. The Giants have X amount of money and draft capital, it needs to be used wisely. If we had the 2nd pick in the draft and their is a guy that Schoen loves there than that's one thing, bringing in Andy Dalton because many blame Jones for every problem on the offense is another. BTW if they use all sorts of draft capital to move up for a QB, what is he going to have around him, because if it's this, he is going to have to be very, very special to overcome it.
That's why they call it a rebuild.
Enjoy the 7-4 record all you can but don't let it cloud your judgment. There are still some big pieces missing here and work to do to further develop the roster including at QB. All options to upgrade key positions for the future should be explored versus staying the course with a product that has had some short-term but flawed successes.
The goal is to create a team that can truly compete for a championships.