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John Mara releases statement on MetLife Turf

Ben in Tampa : 11/26/2022 9:20 am
Quote:
”The next field in the stadium is the subject of ongoing discussion between the Jets, the stadium and us,” the spokesman relayed on Mara’s behalf. “John has heard from the players and other experts about playing surfaces as part of his roles on the player safety and health committee, competition committee and management council.

“He expects to have conversations with our players as we move along in the process of selecting a new field,”


Perhaps the stadium will end up with grass after all.
NY Daily News - ( New Window )
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RE: ..  
robbieballs2003 : 11/26/2022 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15922817 Named Later said:
Quote:
I thought the FieldTurf was a big part of the problem. Until I took a long look at the 'Man Games Lost' Bubble Chart that's posted weekly on twitter.

Per the latest 'Man Games Lost' Bubble Chart, the Jets have the 4th fewest at 77.

The Giants have the most Man Games Lost at 153.

NFL through week 11, Bottom 5, least games missed by injured players and health protocols

JAX 38
KAN 63
PHI 72
NYJ 77
CHI BUF GNB 83

It ain't only the FieldTurf -- Strength & Conditioning has a role in this large disparity.


Absolutely. This is systemic. It is never either or it is and and both. There are multiple things contributing to these injuries. No one thing is going to change it. Everything needs to be questioned and analyzed and researched.
The good thing is they are acknowledging  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/26/2022 12:16 pm : link
a issue. I expect this to be a very big issue this offseason in the league and hopefully the league and NFLPA work together to come of with the best course of action.

It would be great if they can pull off a grass field but it seems its a challenge in the late season.

Mara did say they changed the field 3 years ago.

RE: They must have heard Eric's daughter crack her knuckles  
Optimus-NY : 11/26/2022 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15922762 j_rud said:
Quote:
and open up photoshop


lol. It worked last time!
Blueblood  
PaulN : 11/26/2022 12:25 pm : link
Is 100% correct. It's more then the field. I believe it's the medical staff. They need wholesale changes. I hear that the reputation of the Giants medical staff is impeccable. UT sometimes that is the problem. It's not us, we are great. Something is wrong.
Jets  
uther99 : 11/26/2022 12:25 pm : link
play on same field and have far less injuries. I'm fine with improving the field but its not the problem
RE: Here is the part everyone ignores  
Optimus-NY : 11/26/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15922780 blueblood said:
Quote:
The Jets who play on the SAME FIELD are one of the LEAST injured teams.

there is more wrong than the field.


True. Saint Ronnie Barnes abides...
it’s not just the field  
The Jake : 11/26/2022 12:25 pm : link
the field is bad, but the discrepancy between the Giants and other teams that play on the same turf suggests there is much more to this.

how many more players have to have their careers ruined before Mara cleans house of all strength, conditioning, and training personnel? everyone in the building responsible for keeping players in shape and healthy should lose their job given how consistently injured we are.

re: the stadium, there’s another factor at play, which is how the stadium was financed and how the teams pay back their loans. the financing arrangement pretty much requires the stadium to be used for all sorts of other events, more so than most other multi-purpose stadiums, which makes the grass situation much harder to solve.
RE: They must have heard Eric's daughter crack her knuckles  
mattlawson : 11/26/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15922762 j_rud said:
Quote:
and open up photoshop


ha
There has to be a way to make grass work  
NYerInMA : 11/26/2022 12:37 pm : link
The painted mud field was 20 years ago, and there are now two NFL stadiums that have managed to make grass work (Arizona and Vegas). Vegas actually rolls the grass in over the field turf as needed. That being said, the lack of injuries to the Jets makes me think that the Giants seriously need to re-evaluate their strength and conditioning practices, because there is something wrong there.
Aren’t  
mitch300 : 11/26/2022 12:38 pm : link
Most fields field turf. Does Minnesota play on natural grass. What about Dallas, Washington,and Philly. Reading these threads you would think the Giants are the only team in the nfl playing on this surface.
Moronic question (perhaps)  
thefan : 11/26/2022 12:43 pm : link
but is it possible to put the astro turf on a slightly software substance that would mimic the give of grass on dirt?
Dump Barnes  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2022 12:43 pm : link
and call in the excorcists.
RE: Moronic question (perhaps)  
thefan : 11/26/2022 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15922963 thefan said:
Quote:
but is it possible to put the astro turf on a slightly software substance that would mimic the give of grass on dirt?


*softer
mitch  
The Jake : 11/26/2022 12:45 pm : link
there are several types/brands of field turf. the Giants play on the same turf as the Vikings and Bengals, but not all field turf is the same.

frankly, this is something that should be regulated league-wide. owners left up to their own devices re surfaces will not always do what’s best for the players.
RE: Here is the part everyone ignores  
Ivan15 : 11/26/2022 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15922780 blueblood said:
Quote:
The Jets who play on the SAME FIELD are one of the LEAST injured teams.

there is more wrong than the field.
__________Maybe the wrong cleats.
I agree there's more to this than just the turf.  
mittenedman : 11/26/2022 12:55 pm : link
Think back to the buzz around Kenny Phillips and Steve Smith's knee injuries. KP seemed terrified of the Giants medical approach.
RE: the last grass field experiment  
Ivan15 : 11/26/2022 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15922797 blueberry said:
Quote:
Was at the old Giants Stadium during the year they won the NFC beating Vikings scoring 41 points - "painted mud"
MetLife is a different structure located on the property in a slightly different spot. I am sure there'll need to be a new approach if they are entertaining a real grass field.
If you want to protect the players, painted mud is probably the best surface. Looks like hell and the networks would throw a fit, but there wouldn’t be many leg injuries. You might have a few players at the bottom of a pile drown in the mud though.
If the Giants were smart  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/26/2022 1:09 pm : link
They would have hired the same guy that designed the Cardinals stadium. The grass is on a huge moveable tray. You could have 2 fields, change one out for the teams, pls a opening roof. They could have made much more Monday and hosted national championship games plus super bowls such a shit design
Made much more money  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/26/2022 1:10 pm : link
Not monday.
RE: They must have heard Eric's daughter crack her knuckles  
Poktown Pete : 11/26/2022 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15922762 j_rud said:
Quote:
and open up photoshop


LOL is not adequate for the laughs I got from that remark. Well done!
has to be grass,  
JerrysKids : 11/26/2022 1:48 pm : link
they should limit the stadium to only Jets and Giants and have grass surface.
RE: RE: They must have heard Eric's daughter crack her knuckles  
JerseyCityJoe : 11/26/2022 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15923016 Poktown Pete said:
Quote:
In comment 15922762 j_rud said:


Quote:


and open up photoshop



LOL is not adequate for the laughs I got from that remark. Well done!

Your right that was perfect timing. Biggest laugh of the holiday so far.
Giants play  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2022 1:54 pm : link
in a tuna can in the swamp. Of course they're going to cheap out on the field.
RE: If the Giants were smart  
uther99 : 11/26/2022 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15923001 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
They would have hired the same guy that designed the Cardinals stadium. The grass is on a huge moveable tray. You could have 2 fields, change one out for the teams, pls a opening roof. They could have made much more Monday and hosted national championship games plus super bowls such a shit design


Do you understand that new jersey has winter and Arizona does not?
My hypothesis is that  
BH28 : 11/26/2022 2:20 pm : link
the Giants have a very traditional and outdated approach to strength training where strength = stiffness and stiffness helps protect from injuries, i.e. over extending joints.

It's becoming more accepted that you can be strong AND flexible; strength does not come at the expense of flexibility and vice versa. I suspect that if the Giants switched to a more functional movement type approach, it would reduce their injuries.

For instance, IMO the bench press is a completely useless exercise for football. How often does a guy have his hands in that position during a play? Guys are moving around extending their hands outside the framework of their body, moving their arms at different angles relative to the chest. And if you only train them to move their arms perpendicular to the chest like in a bench, is it really a surprise when guys tear their pecs?
RE: Giants play  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/26/2022 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15923046 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
in a tuna can in the swamp. Of course they're going to cheap out on the field.


Literally everything that comes out of your mouth is some combination of wrong and stupid.
..  
Named Later : 11/26/2022 2:45 pm : link
There are quite a few cold weather teams playing on real grass......

Arizona Cardinals - State Farm Stadium, Bermuda grass
Baltimore Ravens - M&T Bank Stadium, Bermuda grass
Chicago Bears - Soldier Field, Kentucky bluegrass
Cleveland Browns - FirstEnergy Stadium, Kentucky bluegrass
Denver Broncos - Empower Field at Mile High, Kentucky bluegrass
Green Bay Packers - Lambeau Field, Desso GrassMasterPro
Indianapolis Colts - Lucas Oil Stadium, Shaw Sports Momentum
Jacksonville Jaguars - TIAA Bank Field, Bermuda grass
Kansas City Chiefs - Arrowhead Stadium, Bermuda grass
Las Vegas Raiders - Allegiant Stadium, Bermuda grass
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Raymond James Stadium, Bermuda grass
Tennessee Titans - Nissan Stadium, Bermuda grass
Washington Football Team - FedExField, Bermuda grass
Philadelphia Eagles, Lincoln Financial Field, Desso GrassMaster
Pittsburgh Steelers, Heinz Field, Kentucky bluegrass
San Francisco 49ers, Levi’s Stadium, Bermuda grass, Perennial Ryegrass mixture

BTW -- Dallas plays on a synthetic turf with the trade name of Matrix Turf. Jerrah holds all kinds of events in his Palace, including Monster Truck Jams and Rodeos, with no apparent ill effects to his Cowboys.

Here's a link to the twitter guy who follows Man Games Lost.

I think a more helpful stat would be lower body injuries on grass vs turf -- ankles, hammies, knees, quads and hips. What does the surface do to players' legs ??

NFL Man Games Lost, updated weekly - ( New Window )
RE: So when the Giants switch to grass and ACL injuries keep happening  
DefenseWins : 11/26/2022 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15922863 BH28 said:
Quote:
What is the next boogeyman?


I have been saying in multiple threads over the past few weeks that we have a strength and conditioning issue. My comments are not specific to ACLs, but all soft tissue injuries.

We have a lot of hamstring injuries too and none of those are likely attributed to the turf. Instead, I will stand firm on an improper leg strengthening program including weight lifting, stretching, and the timing of when you lift and then run sprints.
RE: If the Giants were smart  
BMac : 11/26/2022 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15923001 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
They would have hired the same guy that designed the Cardinals stadium. The grass is on a huge moveable tray. You could have 2 fields, change one out for the teams, pls a opening roof. They could have made much more Monday and hosted national championship games plus super bowls such a shit design


There's a slight discrepancy between NYC weather and that of the Southwest.
How do so many here still not know  
Eman11 : 11/26/2022 4:52 pm : link
The difference between a Head Trainer and a Strength and Conditioning coach.

Ronnie Barnes is the Trainer. He’s responsible for getting guys back from injuries and onto the field. While also dealing with injuries that happen during a game or practice.

The S&C coach is the one who is responsible for their workouts and trying to prevent all these injuries with proper workouts, stretching, lifting etc.
Wow!  
Mayo2JZ : 11/26/2022 5:26 pm : link
that's great news
RE: How do so many here still not know  
cosmicj : 11/26/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15923257 Eman11 said:
Quote:
The difference between a Head Trainer and a Strength and Conditioning coach.

Ronnie Barnes is the Trainer. He’s responsible for getting guys back from injuries and onto the field. While also dealing with injuries that happen during a game or practice.

The S&C coach is the one who is responsible for their workouts and trying to prevent all these injuries with proper workouts, stretching, lifting etc.


Sam Coad and Craig Fitzgerald are the two individuals in charge of strength & conditioning. Coad comes from Texas A&M, and was brought in this year by the new regime. Craig Fitzgerald was hired in 2020 and worked for Bill O’Brien in Houston and for college programs run by two of Judge’s assistants (the Vols, Penn State).

So neither one is a Giants holdover. Yet the injuries continue.
RE: RE: If the Giants were smart  
Daniel in MI : 11/26/2022 5:43 pm : link
In comment 15923059 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15923001 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


They would have hired the same guy that designed the Cardinals stadium. The grass is on a huge moveable tray. You could have 2 fields, change one out for the teams, pls a opening roof. They could have made much more Monday and hosted national championship games plus super bowls such a shit design



Do you understand that new jersey has winter and Arizona does not?


Honestly if these 2 teams were less cheap and more creative it could work. Put the fields on rolling surfaces, they move down into a grow room with grow lighting, temp controlled, etc. Underneath is a turf field for other non NFL events.

Two billion dollar businesses together can’t make it work?
Eman11 and ComsicJ  
Semipro Lineman : 11/26/2022 5:55 pm : link
I fear you will have more success teaching physics to goldfish than reaching the "Its Ron Barnes' Fault" crowd because that information has been given to them multiple times and they just ignore it.
the turf might not be the only factor, but a few weeks ago  
markky : 11/26/2022 6:07 pm : link
the NFLPA did call out our stadium as being one of the ones where they are requesting a change due to injuries. It is definitely a real issue.
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants were smart  
Semipro Lineman : 11/26/2022 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15923305 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:

Honestly if these 2 teams were less cheap and more creative it could work. Put the fields on rolling surfaces, they move down into a grow room with grow lighting, temp controlled, etc. Underneath is a turf field for other non NFL events.

Two billion dollar businesses together can’t make it work?


Something tells me that they didn't get to be billion dollar businesses by putting money into things like rotating surfaces for the playing field when they have an effective alternative available.

Signed someone who believes that there are more variances to the issue than just the field type and doesn't believe Ron Barnes post-injury responsibilities are causing more injuries
Let's try to put a list of all potential possibilities...  
DefenseWins : 11/26/2022 6:17 pm : link
and set stats aside for just one moment. You can use stats to argue one vs the other if you like. However, what else needs to be on this list as a reason for so many soft tissue injuries to this team over the years??

1. The turf
2. strength and conditioning
3. bad luck

We have heard all three. I am not singing up for the bad luck excuse. Bad luck does not continue to happen like this year after year.

Are there any other possible reasons?
RE: Let's try to put a list of all potential possibilities...  
Semipro Lineman : 11/26/2022 6:48 pm : link
In comment 15923338 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
and set stats aside for just one moment. You can use stats to argue one vs the other if you like. However, what else needs to be on this list as a reason for so many soft tissue injuries to this team over the years??

1. The turf
2. strength and conditioning
3. bad luck

We have heard all three. I am not singing up for the bad luck excuse. Bad luck does not continue to happen like this year after year.

Are there any other possible reasons?


You are leaving out the biggest variance which is individual players. In fact, look at some of the free agents signings over the past few seasons. The reason why some of those players were available was because they were injured. For example - Gano, Adoree Jackson, Golladay, Golden Tate, and Nate Solder. (Solder played a full season before coming to the Giants but has missed 12 games the previous year.)

Now, the Giants have recently switched from a veteran loaded roster to a team heavily loaded with younger players. As one of the better posters on BBI pointed out, most rookies in the league haven't had an off-season since they had to prepare for the bowl season, then the combine, then rookie camp a few weeks later, and then straight to training camp. In my opinion, that takes a toll on the body, no matter what age you are.

I strongly suspect the Giant's injury luck is going to even out very soon as they become a middle of the pack team in terms of average age


Link - ( New Window )
Get rid of Barnes, let Schoen bring in his guy  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2022 6:56 pm : link
probably will be undersized.
look, the reason is obvious!  
Dave on the UWS : 11/26/2022 7:21 pm : link
We sold our souls to the football devil for 2007 and 2011. We are screwed in perpetuity now!
RE: RE: Let's try to put a list of all potential possibilities...  
DefenseWins : 11/26/2022 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15923359 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
As one of the better posters on BBI pointed out, most rookies in the league haven't had an off-season since they had to prepare for the bowl season, then the combine, then rookie camp a few weeks later, and then straight to training camp. In my opinion, that takes a toll on the body, no matter what age you are.


You could be right about the lack of rest between college and the pro training schedule.

OR..it could also be tied to how we deal and train these players KNOWING they have not had much rest over the past year. We could be putting them into a more intense program that their bodies are unable to deal with yet.

We both could be saying the same thing and IMO, our training program should be (hopefully is) designed around caution.

Unrelated to the recent leg related injuries, but do you remember many years ago (I think after our last Superbowl), we had two guys with a torn pectoral muscle? I think one was from lifting and the other happened in a game. Both larger men who play on the line of scrimmage. I always felt like getting injured in the weight room is a huge fuck up and should not happen.
RE: RE: RE: Let's try to put a list of all potential possibilities...  
Scooter185 : 11/26/2022 9:01 pm : link
In comment 15923402 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 15923359 Semipro Lineman said:


Quote:


As one of the better posters on BBI pointed out, most rookies in the league haven't had an off-season since they had to prepare for the bowl season, then the combine, then rookie camp a few weeks later, and then straight to training camp. In my opinion, that takes a toll on the body, no matter what age you are.




You could be right about the lack of rest between college and the pro training schedule.

OR..it could also be tied to how we deal and train these players KNOWING they have not had much rest over the past year. We could be putting them into a more intense program that their bodies are unable to deal with yet.

We both could be saying the same thing and IMO, our training program should be (hopefully is) designed around caution.

Unrelated to the recent leg related injuries, but do you remember many years ago (I think after our last Superbowl), we had two guys with a torn pectoral muscle? I think one was from lifting and the other happened in a game. Both larger men who play on the line of scrimmage. I always felt like getting injured in the weight room is a huge fuck up and should not happen.


In season training should be lighter weight, so absolutely a weight room injury should not happen in season. The time for heavy and intense programming is in the off-season. Football is hard enough to recover from, no need to add an intense lifting regimen on top of it.

But without seeing what the SnC coaches are actually programming it is a bit difficult for me to place blame there
RE: With the advancements in...  
GFAN52 : 11/26/2022 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15922882 vonritz said:
Quote:
indoor gardening the last 20 years, I would love to see them bring back a grass tray system. After games, they could be removed and placed in a stacked storage system that gets good lighting and hydroponically watered. Any damaged grass could be quickly repaired in those optimal growing conditions and they could have a bunch of extra trays ready to go while repairs happen. The technology is here and I'm very surprised it hasn't been tried yet.


Sounds expensive.
When was the last time the Giants  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/26/2022 9:30 pm : link
Played a home snow game.

Or a home rain game.

Or any weather besides gusty wind at home?

Worried about the cost of grass management for a franchise that's probably worth more than 4bn.
..  
Named Later : 11/27/2022 10:25 am : link
I wonder how that 'Man Games Lost' bubble chart accounts for a team's Dumb-Ass Injuries ??

Such as McKinney's Cabo-Wabo foolishness ? Or Golladay's malingering ?? Or Phoney Toney's Bullshit Act ??

But even deducting those kinds of injuries would still leave the Giants at around 130 Man Games Lost, and way above the norm.
RE: My hypothesis is that  
Optimus-NY : 11/27/2022 10:26 am : link
In comment 15923064 BH28 said:
Quote:
the Giants have a very traditional and outdated approach to strength training where strength = stiffness and stiffness helps protect from injuries, i.e. over extending joints.

It's becoming more accepted that you can be strong AND flexible; strength does not come at the expense of flexibility and vice versa. I suspect that if the Giants switched to a more functional movement type approach, it would reduce their injuries.

For instance, IMO the bench press is a completely useless exercise for football. How often does a guy have his hands in that position during a play? Guys are moving around extending their hands outside the framework of their body, moving their arms at different angles relative to the chest. And if you only train them to move their arms perpendicular to the chest like in a bench, is it really a surprise when guys tear their pecs?


+1
RE: RE: My hypothesis is that  
MeanBunny : 11/27/2022 10:43 am : link
I think Barnes is too old school. So Mara needs to modernize the training system for more.explosive speed and less bulk and more flexibility. I also think martial art training on the way to fall would help. Eli Manning would do this by gut reaction and he crumpled just before impact and depowered the hit.
The turf in twist does bond up the cleat. I used my finger and twisted down on the turf. The plastic fiber gets stronger. It's like kelp under torsion and will NOT let go. You can imagine with a guy like Saquon driving and twisting down and your clear meets the stitching and knots up and unless you pull straight out the lateral motion just ceases. Try it
Injuries  
gerry123 : 11/27/2022 1:05 pm : link
Cleats?
Go back to 1980s Giants Stadium AstroTurf  
Jim in Fairfax : 11/27/2022 1:36 pm : link
Thin plastic carpet rolled over asphalt
RE: RE: RE: My hypothesis is that  
DefenseWins : 11/27/2022 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15923668 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
I also think martial art training on the way to fall would help.


I agree with this 1000% ! Andre Tippet was a black belt and used his hands to gain an advantage vs the opponent.

Just think about how many positions on the field where this can help. On the line of scrimmage, WRs, and CBs.

Imagine our corners jamming receivers and being able to get them off balance based upon what they learn with martial arts training vs old school coaching.

Martial arts is also not just about hands, but also being on balance with your footwork.
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