Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
No offense, but that’s ridiculous. He’s had an amazing career. Heck, his numbers prior to the injury last season were excellent. Ever since he came back from that injury, he’s been awful. In his slight defense, nothing is working well in that offense. When Wilson was injured this season, the Broncos were still terrible.
Not true. His numbers -- playing in Carroll's system were very good after coming back from injury late last season.
It's only after leaving his system has Russ Wislon been shit. Let's face it . Russ Wilson is short, system QB who is trying to re-invent himself as a prolific pocket passer up there with the ranks of Brady and Peyton and, he is just failing miserably.
You cannot blame his coach. A rookie coach saddled with him is just as much his problem as Wilson is saddled with a rookie coach
Eli, Ben, Brady and Stafford are the only QB's winning a SB on a big contract. It gets really hard after that rookie contract. Stafford and Brady were discounted and both went to teams with very good situations.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
Not even close. Wilson contract is 3.5x Kenny G and almost fully guaranteed whereas Kenny G is only about half guaranteed. The dead cap if we get rid of Kenny on Day 1 of 2023 season is 14 million. The dead cap for Wilson is over 100m if cut on the same day.
Eli, Ben, Brady and Stafford are the only QB's winning a SB on a big contract. It gets really hard after that rookie contract. Stafford and Brady were discounted and both went to teams with very good situations.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
I have heard Bellichek talk about this and Seahawks looking to wheel R Wilson to the Brown but otherwise not sure what the big deal is about having the most important player being high paid.
Too bad that is not true. You are forgetting Peyton and Brees. In fact who besides Mahomes has won it in their rookie year. Not to mention The QBs you mentioned have like 10 SB wins among them. Poorly thought out take. You forgot Peyton, A Rodgers, and Brees all on big contracts
RE: i think it's funny you guys think Wilson is done.
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
I tend to agree. It's just been a total disaster for Wilson and that organization. Rob Walton inherited the team after the Wilson and Hackett acquisitions occurred. And the goal of the Hackett hire was to have him be the bait to lure Rodgers.
So, he and Wilson seem like oil and water at this point. I have to imagine the goal is going to be finding a coach ASAP to fit Wilson's style...assuming he truly does have gas left in the tank for a long trip.
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
fact is whenever I have watched him last 2 years I have been like "this guy sucks". And that is pretty much every nationally televised game like MNF or Sunday night or when he played the Giants. He somehow comes up with these magical numbers. I remember Kurt Warner said something on a podcast that stats 'are all smoke and mirrors". Regardless, if you are going to say he has HOF numbers , you have to die by those numbers too. He has 7 TDs and barely 2000 yards and, those are not HOF numbers. They are just not.
RE: RE: RE: i think it's funny you guys think Wilson is done.
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
No, I did not want to pay the price for the guy.
I was asking Producer if he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
If he was a free agent, then I could see making a run at him. We have a team with so many holes, we could not afford to give up what Seattle would have been asking.
RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
.
Except for one tiny detail - he surrounded Jones with such shit talent we have no idea if he made a mistake with Jones. As many of us have argued, Jones cannot be properly be judged, given that (rather painful) fact.
But you have your agenda/narrative, so we know why you keep ignoring that.
🤷🏻♂️
They have to give it another year with a new coach
But it looks real bad. I liked the move for Denver, but hated it for the Giants based on where each team was in their cycle. We have to remember that age is real and not everyone is Brady (or even Brees). We've seen lots of good QBs age recently - Eli, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, probably Rodgers. Guys get old and aren't that good anymore. It happens. And you can't always predict the exact year it will.
I get it. But his ten years in Seattle were tremendous. Combined he posted:
65% completion%
291 TDs/87 INTs - 3+/1 ration, which is outstanding
7.8 YPA - which is excellent
8.2 AY/A - which is excellent
66 QBR - which is excellent
3 years of a 70+ QBR 0 which is excellent
Two SB appearances and a SB win
9X Pro Bowl player
I mean, that's an easy decision for Canton.
RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
RE: They have to give it another year with a new coach
But it looks real bad. I liked the move for Denver, but hated it for the Giants based on where each team was in their cycle. We have to remember that age is real and not everyone is Brady (or even Brees). We've seen lots of good QBs age recently - Eli, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, probably Rodgers. Guys get old and aren't that good anymore. It happens. And you can't always predict the exact year it will.
How do you fire a rookie head coach? This is the most assinine media driven bullshit thing. He is a rookie coach. So has this guy done wrong except that 4th and 5 kick a FG thing?
RE: RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Except for one tiny detail - he surrounded Jones with such shit talent we have no idea if he made a mistake with Jones. As many of us have argued, Jones cannot be properly be judged, given that (rather painful) fact.
But you have your agenda/narrative, so we know why you keep ignoring that.
🤷🏻♂️
It's my opinion. And the facts support a lot of that opinion.
And, yes, Jones can be properly evaluated if you take the time to do your homework instead of wading in Lake Excuses.
Maybe, but none of the guys who are currently wearing a yellow jacket can help our team anymore. Wilson is at the end of his career and you can watch him making bad decisions and poor throws. To mortgage the team's future for this guy NOW (not 10 years ago) would be criminal.
RE: RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
Yea they could have just drafted Herbert the following year which would have been weird but whatever. Not to mention that was then this is now. You are going to have to pay Jones -- which at best -- if you are Jones crew fan club -- means paying him a 2nd year starting QB salary just to see what is behind door #2.
Really you have Mike White's playing like Mike White was playing. Does he have this amazing set of receviers. They are average.
RE: RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
No. I want to be proven wrong.
Honestly didn't see this coming, like apparently the people in this
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right. BBI is an opinion board about NYG. Those who keep score about who is right and wrong desperately need a reality check.
I won't speak for those who think similarly to me on Jones, but I want to replace him because I don't think he's the right man for the job. Plain and simple.
RE: RE: RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right. BBI is an opinion board about NYG. Those who keep score about who is right and wrong desperately need a reality check.
I won't speak for those who think similarly to me on Jones, but I want to replace him because I don't think he's the right man for the job. Plain and simple.
I respect your opinion and understand the evidence you have to come to that conclusion.
I don't really give a damn about "keeping score," but you would have to admit there are folks on this board that post daily there insatiable desire to move on from DJ. It gets tiresome.
I didn't want Jones on draft day 2019....I believe my posted comment about who we should draft was "Anyone but Jones." That said, I'm cheering for the kid as long as he's a NYG and don't care to root for his replacement unless or until Daboll and Schoen say it is time to do so.
In the meantime, as stated earlier, MOST QB prospects fail. There are only 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and the league barely has enough quality starters for 3/4 of them.
DJ is clearly not a perfect NFL QB, but there is enough evidence that he "can/may" develop into a mid-to-high quality starter that I'd prefer to not go high risk (e.g. Richardson) and dump multiple 1st round draft picks for a lottery ticket.
Oh, by the way, I was in favor of drafting Josh Allen in '18 (I was told he would never improve his completion % in the NFL over his college stats, yet now many are stating that clearly Richardson WILL do so). I also was hoping Herbert would enter the draft in '19, but unfortunately he went back to school and has made it clear he did not want to play on the east coast.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right.
Bull fucking shit - you absolutely care about being right.
Why else would you give other QB’s the exact excuses you don’t give Jones?
You’ve been agenda driven from the start.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right.
Bull fucking shit - you absolutely care about being right.
Why else would you give other QB’s the exact excuses you don’t give Jones?
You’ve been agenda driven from the start.
Shame on you for not being honest from the start. You and several others.
🤷🏻♂️
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
Except the ability to improve through the (pretty high) draft picks (2 firsts and 2 seconds) they gave up or using the money spent on Wilson to sign free agents. If you assume the Broncos without Wilson could have lost a game or two more, this year's first rounder might have gotten them one of the young QBs you want so badly for the Giants to get on a rookie deal.
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
You said they got “a bargain”. Our other resident QB analyst Go Terps argued that they got him “cheap”. You then congratulated each other for your shared opinion on the matter.
RE: Deal
Producer : 3/8/2022 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15624256 Saos1n said:
Quote:
Seahawks Receive:
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
The Chiefs are the Chiefs, but the Chargers are 6-5 and Raiders are 4-7....what a murderers row.
Yes, something is off with that whole Denver team. Wilson didn't suddenly forget how to play qb and didn't suddenly become the worst qb in the League. There is no reason that offense should be the worst offense in the League. Yeah, they overpaid, but the organization believed they had a top 10 defense, a two headed rushing attack (Williams and Gordon both topped 900 yards in 2021, and were a qb away from contending.
Ok, Denver overpaid, no question, but questions remain. Is Wilson really worse than Bridgewater/Lock who produced 20 td passes between them last season and neither are starting anywhere this season? The running game has fallen off a cliff; what happened there? Is Hackett another McAdoo who made his rep off the extraordinary talents of Rodgers but is in reality a hack? Something else is going on here.
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
“They’ve lost nothing”.
LOL! Sure, if you don’t count the significant amount of cap space for at least the next two years and the five lost draft picks - including TWO ones and TWO twos - sure, they’ve lost “nothing”
former Badger alum who saw him lift Wisconsin as well. Something's wrong upstairs here, in Wilson's head. If he figures it out (with a new coach) they will be in it next year.
This is just so obvious and no one wants to say anything.
THis whole trade ignores the history of why Russ Wilson trying to become this elite QB and "letting Russ cook". Well they are and it isn't working.
Blaming his coach is a little weird. He deserves some blame I suppose but, the real blame is thinking that he could take a cooked Russ Wilson and that he could re-invent himself as a elite pocket passer; and somehow that would work. Then again how much clout does a 1st year coach really have?
I think it's fair to question Denver's coaching too
I believe prior ownership hired Hackett because they thought he was the bait needed to bring over Rodgers. Rodgers and Hackett are very tight.
But once Rodgers chose to stay in Green Bay, and the Bowlens sold to Walton, Denver had to scramble to unplanned Plan B. And that ended-up being Wilson.
Wilson could indeed be on the slide, but Denver is stuck with him. So, they very likely have to find a head coach that has more chops and can develop an offense more suited to Wilson's game and, almost as important, manage Wilson's personality.
He turns 34 tomorrow. There's nothing wrong with his arm. Lots of qb's are still productive at that age.
That does not explain the Denver running game going completely south or the inability to put the ball in the end zone. He's running as much as he did the last season in Seattle. He's not throwing picks as his int percentage is basically right on his career. He's getting sacked a lot but he always did. His completion percentage is down and his air yards per attempt is down over a yard, but the yards per completion is the same.
IMO, either this is the design of the offense or Denver is trying to make up for the running game going south by throwing short passes and it stops working as the offense gets closer to the goal line.
I have been with you both, opinion wise, on Wilson. All the metrics point to him being an outstanding QB historically. It was plainly evident on the field as well.
I am reading things, that are making me believe that he has made so much money and heard so much praise that he may have developed narcistic personality disorder and has turned into a dick.
The position requires the person to be a leader. Jeff George had a better arm and release than Marino. Guy could flick it 70. He was a dick.
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
Quote:
I had my doubts he ever was
No offense, but that’s ridiculous. He’s had an amazing career. Heck, his numbers prior to the injury last season were excellent. Ever since he came back from that injury, he’s been awful. In his slight defense, nothing is working well in that offense. When Wilson was injured this season, the Broncos were still terrible.
Not true. His numbers -- playing in Carroll's system were very good after coming back from injury late last season.
It's only after leaving his system has Russ Wislon been shit. Let's face it . Russ Wilson is short, system QB who is trying to re-invent himself as a prolific pocket passer up there with the ranks of Brady and Peyton and, he is just failing miserably.
You cannot blame his coach. A rookie coach saddled with him is just as much his problem as Wilson is saddled with a rookie coach
Quote:
.
guaranteed he will be gone before Wilson.
Only because of the cap implications.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
Not even close. Wilson contract is 3.5x Kenny G and almost fully guaranteed whereas Kenny G is only about half guaranteed. The dead cap if we get rid of Kenny on Day 1 of 2023 season is 14 million. The dead cap for Wilson is over 100m if cut on the same day.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
I have heard Bellichek talk about this and Seahawks looking to wheel R Wilson to the Brown but otherwise not sure what the big deal is about having the most important player being high paid.
Too bad that is not true. You are forgetting Peyton and Brees. In fact who besides Mahomes has won it in their rookie year. Not to mention The QBs you mentioned have like 10 SB wins among them. Poorly thought out take. You forgot Peyton, A Rodgers, and Brees all on big contracts
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
I tend to agree. It's just been a total disaster for Wilson and that organization. Rob Walton inherited the team after the Wilson and Hackett acquisitions occurred. And the goal of the Hackett hire was to have him be the bait to lure Rodgers.
So, he and Wilson seem like oil and water at this point. I have to imagine the goal is going to be finding a coach ASAP to fit Wilson's style...assuming he truly does have gas left in the tank for a long trip.
Quote:
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
fact is whenever I have watched him last 2 years I have been like "this guy sucks". And that is pretty much every nationally televised game like MNF or Sunday night or when he played the Giants. He somehow comes up with these magical numbers. I remember Kurt Warner said something on a podcast that stats 'are all smoke and mirrors". Regardless, if you are going to say he has HOF numbers , you have to die by those numbers too. He has 7 TDs and barely 2000 yards and, those are not HOF numbers. They are just not.
Quote:
In comment 15924382 Producer said:
Quote:
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
No, I did not want to pay the price for the guy.
I was asking Producer if he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
If he was a free agent, then I could see making a run at him. We have a team with so many holes, we could not afford to give up what Seattle would have been asking.
Quote:
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
.
Except for one tiny detail - he surrounded Jones with such shit talent we have no idea if he made a mistake with Jones. As many of us have argued, Jones cannot be properly be judged, given that (rather painful) fact.
But you have your agenda/narrative, so we know why you keep ignoring that.
🤷🏻♂️
65% completion%
291 TDs/87 INTs - 3+/1 ration, which is outstanding
7.8 YPA - which is excellent
8.2 AY/A - which is excellent
66 QBR - which is excellent
3 years of a 70+ QBR 0 which is excellent
Two SB appearances and a SB win
9X Pro Bowl player
I mean, that's an easy decision for Canton.
Quote:
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
How do you fire a rookie head coach? This is the most assinine media driven bullshit thing. He is a rookie coach. So has this guy done wrong except that 4th and 5 kick a FG thing?
Except for one tiny detail - he surrounded Jones with such shit talent we have no idea if he made a mistake with Jones. As many of us have argued, Jones cannot be properly be judged, given that (rather painful) fact.
But you have your agenda/narrative, so we know why you keep ignoring that.
🤷🏻♂️
It's my opinion. And the facts support a lot of that opinion.
And, yes, Jones can be properly evaluated if you take the time to do your homework instead of wading in Lake Excuses.
I mean, that's an easy decision for Canton.
Maybe, but none of the guys who are currently wearing a yellow jacket can help our team anymore. Wilson is at the end of his career and you can watch him making bad decisions and poor throws. To mortgage the team's future for this guy NOW (not 10 years ago) would be criminal.
Quote:
In comment 15924273 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
Yea they could have just drafted Herbert the following year which would have been weird but whatever. Not to mention that was then this is now. You are going to have to pay Jones -- which at best -- if you are Jones crew fan club -- means paying him a 2nd year starting QB salary just to see what is behind door #2.
Really you have Mike White's playing like Mike White was playing. Does he have this amazing set of receviers. They are average.
Quote:
In comment 15924273 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
No. I want to be proven wrong.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right. BBI is an opinion board about NYG. Those who keep score about who is right and wrong desperately need a reality check.
I won't speak for those who think similarly to me on Jones, but I want to replace him because I don't think he's the right man for the job. Plain and simple.
Quote:
In comment 15924301 bw in dc said:
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right. BBI is an opinion board about NYG. Those who keep score about who is right and wrong desperately need a reality check.
I won't speak for those who think similarly to me on Jones, but I want to replace him because I don't think he's the right man for the job. Plain and simple.
I respect your opinion and understand the evidence you have to come to that conclusion.
I don't really give a damn about "keeping score," but you would have to admit there are folks on this board that post daily there insatiable desire to move on from DJ. It gets tiresome.
I didn't want Jones on draft day 2019....I believe my posted comment about who we should draft was "Anyone but Jones." That said, I'm cheering for the kid as long as he's a NYG and don't care to root for his replacement unless or until Daboll and Schoen say it is time to do so.
In the meantime, as stated earlier, MOST QB prospects fail. There are only 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and the league barely has enough quality starters for 3/4 of them.
DJ is clearly not a perfect NFL QB, but there is enough evidence that he "can/may" develop into a mid-to-high quality starter that I'd prefer to not go high risk (e.g. Richardson) and dump multiple 1st round draft picks for a lottery ticket.
Oh, by the way, I was in favor of drafting Josh Allen in '18 (I was told he would never improve his completion % in the NFL over his college stats, yet now many are stating that clearly Richardson WILL do so). I also was hoping Herbert would enter the draft in '19, but unfortunately he went back to school and has made it clear he did not want to play on the east coast.
Quote:
In comment 15924301 bw in dc said:
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right.
Bull fucking shit - you absolutely care about being right.
Why else would you give other QB’s the exact excuses you don’t give Jones?
You’ve been agenda driven from the start.
Quote:
In comment 15924425 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15924301 bw in dc said:
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
...and I would counter that many have become so obsessed with moving on from Jones because:
A. Gettleman drafted him
and
B. They want to be proven right
The craze to move on from Jones has led to poor evaluations of many alternatives (e.g. Wilson, Pickett, Willis).
I don't buy that. I certainly didn't like DG from the moment he was hired (guilty), but I couldn't care less about being right.
Bull fucking shit - you absolutely care about being right.
Why else would you give other QB’s the exact excuses you don’t give Jones?
You’ve been agenda driven from the start.
Shame on you for not being honest from the start. You and several others.
🤷🏻♂️
Bull fucking shit - you absolutely care about being right.
Why else would you give other QB’s the exact excuses you don’t give Jones?
You’ve been agenda driven from the start.
No, you care about me being wrong.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
Quote:
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
Except the ability to improve through the (pretty high) draft picks (2 firsts and 2 seconds) they gave up or using the money spent on Wilson to sign free agents. If you assume the Broncos without Wilson could have lost a game or two more, this year's first rounder might have gotten them one of the young QBs you want so badly for the Giants to get on a rookie deal.
Quote:
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
You said they got “a bargain”. Our other resident QB analyst Go Terps argued that they got him “cheap”. You then congratulated each other for your shared opinion on the matter.
RE: Deal
Producer : 3/8/2022 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15624256 Saos1n said:
Quote:
Seahawks Receive:
1st Round Pick
1st Round Pick
2nd Round Pick
2nd Round Pick
5th Round Pick
Drew Lock
Shelby Harris
Noah Fant
Broncos Receive:
Russell Wilson
4th Round Pick
It's a bargain.
RE: They got Wilson cheap
Producer : 3/8/2022 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15624266 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
Indeed
Quote:
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
The Chiefs are the Chiefs, but the Chargers are 6-5 and Raiders are 4-7....what a murderers row.
Ok, Denver overpaid, no question, but questions remain. Is Wilson really worse than Bridgewater/Lock who produced 20 td passes between them last season and neither are starting anywhere this season? The running game has fallen off a cliff; what happened there? Is Hackett another McAdoo who made his rep off the extraordinary talents of Rodgers but is in reality a hack? Something else is going on here.
Quote:
claimed that the Wilson trade was “a bargain” for Denver. I can only assume that means that he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
I don't remember if I said it was a bargain. I said, they're in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Carr, and therefore they had to do it. They aren't winning shit in the next 5 yrs without a top QB. So if it doesn't work with Wilson, they've lost nothing.
“They’ve lost nothing”.
LOL! Sure, if you don’t count the significant amount of cap space for at least the next two years and the five lost draft picks - including TWO ones and TWO twos - sure, they’ve lost “nothing”
🙄
THis whole trade ignores the history of why Russ Wilson trying to become this elite QB and "letting Russ cook". Well they are and it isn't working.
Blaming his coach is a little weird. He deserves some blame I suppose but, the real blame is thinking that he could take a cooked Russ Wilson and that he could re-invent himself as a elite pocket passer; and somehow that would work. Then again how much clout does a 1st year coach really have?
I believe prior ownership hired Hackett because they thought he was the bait needed to bring over Rodgers. Rodgers and Hackett are very tight.
But once Rodgers chose to stay in Green Bay, and the Bowlens sold to Walton, Denver had to scramble to unplanned Plan B. And that ended-up being Wilson.
Wilson could indeed be on the slide, but Denver is stuck with him. So, they very likely have to find a head coach that has more chops and can develop an offense more suited to Wilson's game and, almost as important, manage Wilson's personality.
I still wouldn't bet against Wilson once they replace the HC, assuming it's someone better.
This level of drop-off/failure just seems unprecedented to me.
That does not explain the Denver running game going completely south or the inability to put the ball in the end zone. He's running as much as he did the last season in Seattle. He's not throwing picks as his int percentage is basically right on his career. He's getting sacked a lot but he always did. His completion percentage is down and his air yards per attempt is down over a yard, but the yards per completion is the same.
IMO, either this is the design of the offense or Denver is trying to make up for the running game going south by throwing short passes and it stops working as the offense gets closer to the goal line.
I am reading things, that are making me believe that he has made so much money and heard so much praise that he may have developed narcistic personality disorder and has turned into a dick.
The position requires the person to be a leader. Jeff George had a better arm and release than Marino. Guy could flick it 70. He was a dick.
But that's just it - he has tremendous talent around him on offense. The only thing they were supposedly missing was a great QB...