the top trending player on Spotrac. I'm guessing a lot of guys are doing the same thing - trying to find out how long Denver will be in cap hell with his contract.
For those wondering, the earliest they can get him off the team and having cap savings in after the 2024 season.
one of the multiple threads of posters here saying it would be a no brainer to bring in a HOF QB like Wilson.
The unstated assumption seemed to be that because Tom Brady has aged well, so would Russell Wilson. But you look at how different their physiques are. Wilson is portly.
But I seem to recall the dead cap is devastating for at least 2 more years which means they are stuck with him until 2025 season at the earliest. I think dead cap if cut before then is like 100m - which is 50% of the cap so that is not happening.
The Broncos need a complete reboot like the Giants did, too much talent on that team to only have 3 wins.
They quit 4 weeks ago and if you watch the games there is no effort by anyone
But I seem to recall the dead cap is devastating for at least 2 more years which means they are stuck with him until 2025 season at the earliest. I think dead cap if cut before then is like 100m - which is 50% of the cap so that is not happening.
It's $50 million if he's released or traded before 6/1/25.
Leonard Williams's dead cap number next year (pre-6/1) is $20 million, and we'd still save $12 million if we released in that circumstance.
I don’t think Kafko would be in the running for. HC job next year anyway. But, does the crappy performance of Hackett make it virtually impossible for a brand new OC to get a HC so quickly?
RE: Those who insisted the Giants should trade for Wilson
If we offered Denver Kenny Golladay to get rid of Wilson, and told them Golladay had to play QB for them, they would absolutely take that trade right now.
For as bad as KG's contract has been for us, it's not even close to the mess that Denver's in right now with Wilson.
He had a great running game he could lean on, excellent wr's and probably one of the top 5 defenses of all time to cover up his mistakes! You are now seeing the real Russell Wilson!
Thank goodness many BBI armchair GM’s don’t run the NYG
He had a great running game he could lean on, excellent wr's and probably one of the top 5 defenses of all time to cover up his mistakes! You are now seeing the real Russell Wilson!
Those of you who were right that we should avoid Wilson should enjoy your call.
But then you offset it with absolute daftness like this.
RE: Russelll Wilson was never anything better than mediocre qb!
He had a great running game he could lean on, excellent wr's and probably one of the top 5 defenses of all time to cover up his mistakes! You are now seeing the real Russell Wilson!
Are we also seeing the real Aaron Rodgers this year?
Wilson is cooked now, but he clearly wasn't always cooked.
As far as Schoen's interest, he probably explored it but backed off at the price - both in terms of picks and what Wilson was looking for.
Outstanding career and he was the right QB at the right time for Seattle. Very good QB with a overall very good team and one of the great elite defenses.
Never wanted him on the Giants as I did not think he was this great savior but a really good QB.
No problem with Schoen placing a call. Not all of the QBGC was in on him but a good chunk. They tend to be in on a lot of QB's. Wilson. Willis at pick 5. Until the Giants really turn the corner don't expect them to change.
I think he still should get a second year but I have not really seen much of him this year.
He had a great running game he could lean on, excellent wr's and probably one of the top 5 defenses of all time to cover up his mistakes! You are now seeing the real Russell Wilson!
That’s ridiculous. He was one of the great late game QBs
One of the hardest things to determine is how well a veteran player
No offense, but that’s ridiculous. He’s had an amazing career. Heck, his numbers prior to the injury last season were excellent. Ever since he came back from that injury, he’s been awful. In his slight defense, nothing is working well in that offense. When Wilson was injured this season, the Broncos were still terrible.
RE: Russelll Wilson was never anything better than mediocre qb!
He had a great running game he could lean on, excellent wr's and probably one of the top 5 defenses of all time to cover up his mistakes! You are now seeing the real Russell Wilson!
You think that Daniel Jones is very good and should be a Giant for years to come but you think Russel Wilson is a mediocre QB. Tell me you don’t watch football without telling me you don’t watch football. FFS
How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
No offense, but that’s ridiculous. He’s had an amazing career. Heck, his numbers prior to the injury last season were excellent. Ever since he came back from that injury, he’s been awful. In his slight defense, nothing is working well in that offense. When Wilson was injured this season, the Broncos were still terrible.
Not true. His numbers -- playing in Carroll's system were very good after coming back from injury late last season.
It's only after leaving his system has Russ Wislon been shit. Let's face it . Russ Wilson is short, system QB who is trying to re-invent himself as a prolific pocket passer up there with the ranks of Brady and Peyton and, he is just failing miserably.
You cannot blame his coach. A rookie coach saddled with him is just as much his problem as Wilson is saddled with a rookie coach
Eli, Ben, Brady and Stafford are the only QB's winning a SB on a big contract. It gets really hard after that rookie contract. Stafford and Brady were discounted and both went to teams with very good situations.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
Not even close. Wilson contract is 3.5x Kenny G and almost fully guaranteed whereas Kenny G is only about half guaranteed. The dead cap if we get rid of Kenny on Day 1 of 2023 season is 14 million. The dead cap for Wilson is over 100m if cut on the same day.
Eli, Ben, Brady and Stafford are the only QB's winning a SB on a big contract. It gets really hard after that rookie contract. Stafford and Brady were discounted and both went to teams with very good situations.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
I have heard Bellichek talk about this and Seahawks looking to wheel R Wilson to the Brown but otherwise not sure what the big deal is about having the most important player being high paid.
Too bad that is not true. You are forgetting Peyton and Brees. In fact who besides Mahomes has won it in their rookie year. Not to mention The QBs you mentioned have like 10 SB wins among them. Poorly thought out take. You forgot Peyton, A Rodgers, and Brees all on big contracts
RE: i think it's funny you guys think Wilson is done.
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
I tend to agree. It's just been a total disaster for Wilson and that organization. Rob Walton inherited the team after the Wilson and Hackett acquisitions occurred. And the goal of the Hackett hire was to have him be the bait to lure Rodgers.
So, he and Wilson seem like oil and water at this point. I have to imagine the goal is going to be finding a coach ASAP to fit Wilson's style...assuming he truly does have gas left in the tank for a long trip.
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
fact is whenever I have watched him last 2 years I have been like "this guy sucks". And that is pretty much every nationally televised game like MNF or Sunday night or when he played the Giants. He somehow comes up with these magical numbers. I remember Kurt Warner said something on a podcast that stats 'are all smoke and mirrors". Regardless, if you are going to say he has HOF numbers , you have to die by those numbers too. He has 7 TDs and barely 2000 yards and, those are not HOF numbers. They are just not.
RE: RE: RE: i think it's funny you guys think Wilson is done.
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
No, I did not want to pay the price for the guy.
I was asking Producer if he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
If he was a free agent, then I could see making a run at him. We have a team with so many holes, we could not afford to give up what Seattle would have been asking.
RE: RE: How many BBIers will admit now that they were advocating to trade for
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
.
Except for one tiny detail - he surrounded Jones with such shit talent we have no idea if he made a mistake with Jones. As many of us have argued, Jones cannot be properly be judged, given that (rather painful) fact.
But you have your agenda/narrative, so we know why you keep ignoring that.
🤷🏻♂️
They have to give it another year with a new coach
But it looks real bad. I liked the move for Denver, but hated it for the Giants based on where each team was in their cycle. We have to remember that age is real and not everyone is Brady (or even Brees). We've seen lots of good QBs age recently - Eli, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, probably Rodgers. Guys get old and aren't that good anymore. It happens. And you can't always predict the exact year it will.
I get it. But his ten years in Seattle were tremendous. Combined he posted:
65% completion%
291 TDs/87 INTs - 3+/1 ration, which is outstanding
7.8 YPA - which is excellent
8.2 AY/A - which is excellent
66 QBR - which is excellent
3 years of a 70+ QBR 0 which is excellent
Two SB appearances and a SB win
9X Pro Bowl player
For those wondering, the earliest they can get him off the team and having cap savings in after the 2024 season.
The unstated assumption seemed to be that because Tom Brady has aged well, so would Russell Wilson. But you look at how different their physiques are. Wilson is portly.
They quit 4 weeks ago and if you watch the games there is no effort by anyone
It's $50 million if he's released or traded before 6/1/25.
Leonard Williams's dead cap number next year (pre-6/1) is $20 million, and we'd still save $12 million if we released in that circumstance.
I definitely thought looking into a trade for Wilson was worth a long look if the compensation made sense. It looks like we avoided a big mess.
However, Schoen also thought it was worth looking into Wilson's availability because it was reported that he made a call to Seattle.
It was less than half of Wilson's, Wilson said no thanks...
If we offered Denver Kenny Golladay to get rid of Wilson, and told them Golladay had to play QB for them, they would absolutely take that trade right now.
For as bad as KG's contract has been for us, it's not even close to the mess that Denver's in right now with Wilson.
Twitter - ( New Window )
Losing all those picks? PLUS the contract?? Wow. What an unmitigated disaster that deal has been.
Wilson has all that talent at the skill positions and STILL sucks major balls.
Those of you who were right that we should avoid Wilson should enjoy your call.
But then you offset it with absolute daftness like this.
Are we also seeing the real Aaron Rodgers this year?
Wilson is cooked now, but he clearly wasn't always cooked.
As far as Schoen's interest, he probably explored it but backed off at the price - both in terms of picks and what Wilson was looking for.
Never wanted him on the Giants as I did not think he was this great savior but a really good QB.
No problem with Schoen placing a call. Not all of the QBGC was in on him but a good chunk. They tend to be in on a lot of QB's. Wilson. Willis at pick 5. Until the Giants really turn the corner don't expect them to change.
I think he still should get a second year but I have not really seen much of him this year.
When you have an obsession, “anyone but DJ” you re going to make incorrect assumptions, this one would have been a big mistake
That’s ridiculous. He was one of the great late game QBs
That couldn't have had a positive impact
No offense, but that’s ridiculous. He’s had an amazing career. Heck, his numbers prior to the injury last season were excellent. Ever since he came back from that injury, he’s been awful. In his slight defense, nothing is working well in that offense. When Wilson was injured this season, the Broncos were still terrible.
You think that Daniel Jones is very good and should be a Giant for years to come but you think Russel Wilson is a mediocre QB. Tell me you don’t watch football without telling me you don’t watch football. FFS
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
He might have. The coaching here is adequate. The coaching in Denver is awful.
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
So that's why many of us are/were looking for alternatives. Hopefully, Schoen is thinking similarly.
Quote:
I had my doubts he ever was
No offense, but that’s ridiculous. He’s had an amazing career. Heck, his numbers prior to the injury last season were excellent. Ever since he came back from that injury, he’s been awful. In his slight defense, nothing is working well in that offense. When Wilson was injured this season, the Broncos were still terrible.
Not true. His numbers -- playing in Carroll's system were very good after coming back from injury late last season.
It's only after leaving his system has Russ Wislon been shit. Let's face it . Russ Wilson is short, system QB who is trying to re-invent himself as a prolific pocket passer up there with the ranks of Brady and Peyton and, he is just failing miserably.
You cannot blame his coach. A rookie coach saddled with him is just as much his problem as Wilson is saddled with a rookie coach
Quote:
.
guaranteed he will be gone before Wilson.
Only because of the cap implications.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
Not even close. Wilson contract is 3.5x Kenny G and almost fully guaranteed whereas Kenny G is only about half guaranteed. The dead cap if we get rid of Kenny on Day 1 of 2023 season is 14 million. The dead cap for Wilson is over 100m if cut on the same day.
I am all for drafting a QB but that is the right QB not any QB. Jones is still in play and has the season to play. That and the draft prospects hopefully guides JS/BD to the right decision.
Be prepared. It may not be easy. You still have to win so build that OL and front 7 to compete and overcome shortcomings at QB. This is the reality the majority of NFL teams reside imv.
In the end I think it may be Jones and a 2nd round QB. Schoen went to Arkansas so I gather he may be looking for one in 2nd/3rd range. Last year was a terrible year for QB's. This draft will have more.
I have heard Bellichek talk about this and Seahawks looking to wheel R Wilson to the Brown but otherwise not sure what the big deal is about having the most important player being high paid.
Too bad that is not true. You are forgetting Peyton and Brees. In fact who besides Mahomes has won it in their rookie year. Not to mention The QBs you mentioned have like 10 SB wins among them. Poorly thought out take. You forgot Peyton, A Rodgers, and Brees all on big contracts
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
I tend to agree. It's just been a total disaster for Wilson and that organization. Rob Walton inherited the team after the Wilson and Hackett acquisitions occurred. And the goal of the Hackett hire was to have him be the bait to lure Rodgers.
So, he and Wilson seem like oil and water at this point. I have to imagine the goal is going to be finding a coach ASAP to fit Wilson's style...assuming he truly does have gas left in the tank for a long trip.
Quote:
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
fact is whenever I have watched him last 2 years I have been like "this guy sucks". And that is pretty much every nationally televised game like MNF or Sunday night or when he played the Giants. He somehow comes up with these magical numbers. I remember Kurt Warner said something on a podcast that stats 'are all smoke and mirrors". Regardless, if you are going to say he has HOF numbers , you have to die by those numbers too. He has 7 TDs and barely 2000 yards and, those are not HOF numbers. They are just not.
Quote:
In comment 15924382 Producer said:
Quote:
I wouldn't bet against him straightening this out. He's a phenomenal athlete and a tremendous QB. Players like him usually straighten out.
Were you pushing for the Giants to trade for him?
Yea let me guess you wanted him to be a Giant right?
No, I did not want to pay the price for the guy.
I was asking Producer if he wanted the Giants to trade for him.
If he was a free agent, then I could see making a run at him. We have a team with so many holes, we could not afford to give up what Seattle would have been asking.
Quote:
Wilson this past offseason?
Many of these same folks are pushing for a change at QB with some of the 2023 draft class, and also were doing the same for the 2022 draft class.
Evaluating QBs is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. That's why so many mistakes are made at the position.
To your point, Gettleman made a mistake with Jones.
.
Except for one tiny detail - he surrounded Jones with such shit talent we have no idea if he made a mistake with Jones. As many of us have argued, Jones cannot be properly be judged, given that (rather painful) fact.
But you have your agenda/narrative, so we know why you keep ignoring that.
🤷🏻♂️
65% completion%
291 TDs/87 INTs - 3+/1 ration, which is outstanding
7.8 YPA - which is excellent
8.2 AY/A - which is excellent
66 QBR - which is excellent
3 years of a 70+ QBR 0 which is excellent
Two SB appearances and a SB win
9X Pro Bowl player
I mean, that's an easy decision for Canton.