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Does BBI still love Kyler Murray?

Sean : 11/28/2022 8:57 am
Just wondering. Another bad loss for the 4-8 Cardinals. Murray publicly bashing the coaching staff in the post game. Murray has a massive contract. Yikes.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/28/2022 8:59 am : link
I, for one, never did.
Someone point out to me where Kingsbury  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/28/2022 9:00 am : link
has ever been a winning/good coach.
Who’s this BBI guy you speak of?  
BigBlueShock : 11/28/2022 9:01 am : link
.
Last year  
simgiant : 11/28/2022 9:01 am : link
After the Joe Judge rant about players begging to come play for him we were the joke of the league and one of the worst situations in football. Feels good to say with certainty that they are other teams now that seem to have more problems than us for the future. What we pay our "Number 1 receiver" this year still makes us one of the worst team in cap management for the year but at least it wont last long.
Never loved Murray before the draft  
Rick in Dallas : 11/28/2022 9:06 am : link
Mid level QB imv
I'm not sure there was ever a consensus  
Mike from Ohio : 11/28/2022 9:24 am : link
BBI opinion on Murray. Not sure what the point is here?

People were high on Murray after his rookie season and for good reason. Opinions have likely changed since his play has fallen off a cliff. Most rationale people evolve their opinions as more facts become available.
You can’t teach his talent  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2022 9:27 am : link
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.

Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
He is not a QB...  
DefenseWins : 11/28/2022 9:27 am : link
he is a running back with a very good arm for a running back.

He also apparently is not a leader.

Attitude/Culture is important  
upnyg : 11/28/2022 9:32 am : link
Look at Washington now with Wentz out. They keep winning.

Murray looks toxic at times, not a team player.

Get a good QB, doesnt have to be great, but good team fit and build around him with talent.

Even Jimmy G looks good now with a good RBs and a very good defense.




Doesnt seem  
Straw Hat : 11/28/2022 9:35 am : link
Like a guy who is willing to do the little things that make qbs great. Also seems like an immature whiner.
I'll admit  
jerseygiant : 11/28/2022 9:56 am : link
Kyler has disappointed me the past few years. Was really high on him.

However, Kliff is also a disaster. Has never demonstrated to be a good coach in any way. He went 16-21 with Mahomes.

Lot of variables and it's not apples to apples, but what are Kyler and Mahomes college/pro records with/without Kliff?
RE: ...  
eric2425ny : 11/28/2022 9:57 am : link
In comment 15924871 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I, for one, never did.


Me neither. I don’t see him ever winning anything of significance.
Never Did!  
TheMick7 : 11/28/2022 10:03 am : link
Always thought he made a professional mistake(not a $$$ one) by choosing football over baseball!
RE: You can’t teach his talent  
OBJRoyal : 11/28/2022 10:05 am : link
In comment 15924899 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.

Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.


Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
RE: RE: You can’t teach his talent  
FStubbs : 11/28/2022 10:09 am : link
In comment 15924948 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 15924899 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.

Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.



Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league


I'd say the Giants line is a little below league average at this point - but a massive improvement over absolute rock bottom last year.

The teams that are winning are by and large getting good offensive line play. (Or in the case of Dallas, the refs let them hold).
RE: RE: You can’t teach his talent  
eric2425ny : 11/28/2022 10:14 am : link
In comment 15924948 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 15924899 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.

Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.



Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league


We can thank the rise of the spread offense in college football for the fade in offensive line talent.
I didn't like Murray as the top pick...  
bw in dc : 11/28/2022 10:26 am : link
out of Oklahoma. Couldn't get over his height. I still think he's 5'8" or less.

But Murray has done some good things in the NFL. I've been impressed by his agility to make NFL defenders look ordinary when chasing him. And his arm is very good. The Cards did make the playoffs last and had improved every year since Murray arrived. Of course, information like that requires a little homework from the board...

Murray, however, has regressed this year. Seems like it's time for a new marriage with HC and QB.

Is anybody going to be daft enough to say it's time to declare Murray DOA? I would hope people aren't the dumb. Murray has a very interesting tool box...
not impressed at all  
Chip : 11/28/2022 10:43 am : link
to short and would never be able to handle the New York press.
He is a fantasy football QB...  
DefenseWins : 11/28/2022 10:43 am : link
and now drafting him in next year's fantasy league is risky because I can see him getting benched for insubordination.
Well, djm called me dumb for saying Murray was overrated  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/28/2022 10:52 am : link
...so let's see if he chimes in here.
Link - ( New Window )
Not all of BBI loves Murray! The guys game is his legs, when it is  
Jack Stroud : 11/28/2022 11:20 am : link
time to stand in the pocket and deliver a win he fails.
RE: You can’t teach his talent  
Jack Stroud : 11/28/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15924899 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.

Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
His talent lies in his legs, defensive coordinators get paid a lot of money to figure how to stop his running and force him to stand in the pocket and throw the ball, and that is where he fails.
RE: Someone point out to me where Kingsbury  
Carson53 : 11/28/2022 11:24 am : link
In comment 15924872 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
has ever been a winning/good coach.
.

I think he is going to be an unemployed coach soon enough.
I don't even know how he wound up with the Arizona job?
BBI is not a monolith  
pjcas18 : 11/28/2022 11:27 am : link
other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.


.  
ChrisRick : 11/28/2022 11:33 am : link
I think it is obvious that Sean means 'those on bbi' rather than the whole forum. This to me is in the same class as when people speak their opinion as fact, so when that individual gets called on it, you get the 'well of course it is an opinion, what else could it be?'.

Communication gets muddied a bit when it is left up to others to determine what our words mean.
I love how the opinion of 20 people is the definitive  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/28/2022 11:33 am : link
thought of 5,000 people

Part of the reason to think twice about dumping DJ  
Payasdaddy : 11/28/2022 11:41 am : link
Dudes a leader, team first guy
He is pretty average but rather have a better cast on offense and roll with him next yr than a guy like Murray or that idiotic contract Wilson got extended on when he had two more yrs on his
Seriously, could’ve been a let’s see yr for Denver instead being stuck
RE: RE: Someone point out to me where Kingsbury  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/28/2022 11:43 am : link
In comment 15925020 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 15924872 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


has ever been a winning/good coach.

.

I think he is going to be an unemployed coach soon enough.
I don't even know how he wound up with the Arizona job?


Near as I can tell, his qualifications were that he's photogenic and stood next to Mahomes in College.

It sure wasn't winning and success where he's coached.
RE: Part of the reason to think twice about dumping DJ  
HomerJones45 : 11/28/2022 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15925037 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
Dudes a leader, team first guy
He is pretty average but rather have a better cast on offense and roll with him next yr than a guy like Murray or that idiotic contract Wilson got extended on when he had two more yrs on his
Seriously, could’ve been a let’s see yr for Denver instead being stuck
Yeah ok. Can he leadership his way to a three yard out? "Pretty average" is generous.

I have never been a Murray fan. That said, Cardinals have defensive problems. 30th in points allowed and 31st in passing td's. Murray is basically doing what Murray has done since he has been in the League. There is just no margin for error with that defense.
I am still a Murray fan  
compton : 11/28/2022 1:46 pm : link
The talent is still there but for some reason he is having an off year and is not handling it well. Let's see how he bounces back.
RE: I'll admit  
djm : 11/28/2022 3:02 pm : link
In comment 15924937 jerseygiant said:
Quote:
Kyler has disappointed me the past few years. Was really high on him.

However, Kliff is also a disaster. Has never demonstrated to be a good coach in any way. He went 16-21 with Mahomes.

Lot of variables and it's not apples to apples, but what are Kyler and Mahomes college/pro records with/without Kliff?


My takes as well.
RE: Well, djm called me dumb for saying Murray was overrated  
djm : 11/28/2022 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15925003 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...so let's see if he chimes in here. Link - ( New Window )


I’m here. We’ll see how his career looks when all is said and done. He wasn’t overrated when he was playing well. Now he’s not. You win for now.
RE: Well, djm called me dumb for saying Murray was overrated  
djm : 11/28/2022 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15925003 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...so let's see if he chimes in here. Link - ( New Window )


Also, I said THIS is dumb I never called you dumb.

And my posts were 100% accurate. Murray scores POINTS. That means he’s productive. Overrated is an ambiguous monitor to throw around. Overrated by who? Murray is (was) productive as a QB. I stand by that. Even this year his stats aren’t terrible. Again, overrated? The fuck does that even mean? Should he not start? Would he be better qb here than Daniel jones? Is he better than Prescott? How bad is overrated? It’s ambiguous.

He’s hung 40 on a team this season. Remember what scoring 40 looked like here?

That thread was also coming off  
djm : 11/28/2022 3:19 pm : link
The following season:

In 14 games— over 4000 total yards and 29 tds. His best wr was AJ Green for most of the year. 11 wins 449 pts.

But ok.

I love him  
5BowlsSoon : 11/28/2022 3:26 pm : link
I love athletic QBs….I don’t want just a pocket passer like Eli any longer. I want a guy who can move laterally and throw on the run. I especially want a qb who can take off to pick up that 3rd a 4.

Disclaimer: I’m only talking about him, not his contract
He's night and day better than DJ  
Doubledeuce22 : 11/28/2022 3:49 pm : link
that's for sure. I'd take him as my starting QB in a second. You can build around him IMO. Coaching over there has been pretty bad. Daboll would have him balling out over here.
RE: RE: You can’t teach his talent  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2022 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15925019 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
In comment 15924899 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.

Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.

His talent lies in his legs, defensive coordinators get paid a lot of money to figure how to stop his running and force him to stand in the pocket and throw the ball, and that is where he fails.


Its where he's currently failing. But he succeeded before and can still again. The absolute hate for athletic QB's is so strange on this site. You realize his career isn't over and he can get better, right? Pair him with a real NFL HC and lets see what happens.
Seems to be stuff coming out of AZ..  
BillKo : 11/28/2022 4:05 pm : link
...that he's not completely dedicated to his craft.

ESPN panel was ripping him last week.

And watching Hard Knocks, I don't really like the locker room they have out there, starting with the HC.
RE: He's night and day better than DJ  
Thunderstruck27 : 11/28/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15925528 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
that's for sure. I'd take him as my starting QB in a second. You can build around him IMO. Coaching over there has been pretty bad. Daboll would have him balling out over here.


I seriously doubt that. But then again I was saying the same thing to the claims that Wilson would be great here. Put Murray on a team with considerably less talent and he will ball out? Logic says no.
RE: I didn't like Murray as the top pick...  
JohnG in Albany : 11/28/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15924971 bw in dc said:
Quote:
out of Oklahoma. Couldn't get over his height. I still think he's 5'8" or less.

But Murray has done some good things in the NFL. I've been impressed by his agility to make NFL defenders look ordinary when chasing him. And his arm is very good. The Cards did make the playoffs last and had improved every year since Murray arrived. Of course, information like that requires a little homework from the board...

Murray, however, has regressed this year. Seems like it's time for a new marriage with HC and QB.

Is anybody going to be daft enough to say it's time to declare Murray DOA? I would hope people aren't the dumb. Murray has a very interesting tool box...



But he also seems to be a bit of a tool. *grin*

He has always struck me as completely lacking any leadership qualities.

That's a tough sell in an NFL locker room.

RE: ...  
81_Great_Dane : 11/28/2022 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15924871 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I, for one, never did.
Me neither. Didn't hate him, but was kind of a skeptic. He's a lot of fun to watch but I'm not sold on him as a winning NFL QB.

On the other hand, I'm really not sold on Kingsbury as a winning NFL HC.

I could be wrong, though.
RE: BBI is not a monolith  
81_Great_Dane : 11/28/2022 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15925023 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.

And somebody posted at length about why Weber kettles are bad grills.
I just finished watching the game before opening this thread  
Bill in UT : 11/28/2022 4:47 pm : link
I think those who keep track of these things know I've never been a Murray fan. That said, I don't think this loss was on him. Greatly helped by having Hopkins and Marquis Brown, as well as Green on the field, he did ok passing. I don't recall any stupid passes. If Trey McBride, the rookie TE in for Ertz, had held onto a couple of second half passes, the Cards may have put more points up. And they may have used Conner too much trying to protect the lead.
That said, he's really an asshole putting down the coaches publicly.
RE: He's night and day better than DJ  
81_Great_Dane : 11/28/2022 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15925528 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
that's for sure. I'd take him as my starting QB in a second. You can build around him IMO. Coaching over there has been pretty bad. Daboll would have him balling out over here.
I don't agree that it's night and day. As a physical talent, slight edge to Murray, IMO, mostly because he's more elusive and probably has a stronger arm. DJ's height advantage is significant IMV. DJ is probably at least as fast as a straight-line runner but he's not elusive.

As a leader, big edge to DJ., but Murray's not awful in that regard, the way that Zach Wilson and Carson Wentz have been awful. He just seems whiny and immature. Hopefully he'd grow out of that. DJ clearly has the respect of his teammates and coaches. Not sure Murray does, but I'm not sure he doesn't, either.

Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll. I don't think any QB prospect would really develop and thrive under Kingsbury.
I can’t believe people defending Murray still..  
Sean : 11/28/2022 5:17 pm : link
Do you not see his contract? This is where I don’t get a lot here. I’m critical of Jones and the large reason is due to economics. Yet, we’ve got people here still talking up Murray with the money he is making. That contract can set a franchise back years. Now add in that he’s throwing the coach under the bus.

As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”

Awful leader too.
RE: I can’t believe people defending Murray still..  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2022 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15925667 Sean said:
Quote:
Do you not see his contract? This is where I don’t get a lot here. I’m critical of Jones and the large reason is due to economics. Yet, we’ve got people here still talking up Murray with the money he is making. That contract can set a franchise back years. Now add in that he’s throwing the coach under the bus.

As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”

Awful leader too.


My problem with this POV is it basically says "his time as an impact QB is now over, investment blown". Players have down years, and in Murray's case he's got some maturity issues. But his career isn't over and he's suffered no major injuries. Its a really enticing situation for a new HC IMO.

By the way 17 scores in 10 games = 29 scores over a full season. And most of that production came without Hopkins and Brown. I'll give Murray another couple of seasons before I declare that contract a blunder.
RE: RE: He's night and day better than DJ  
Milton : 11/28/2022 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15925637 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:

Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll.
He'd probably be benched. Either that or traded.
I never loved Kyler Murray.  
section125 : 11/28/2022 5:41 pm : link
...just didn't
RE: RE: RE: He's night and day better than DJ  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2022 5:44 pm : link
In comment 15925698 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15925637 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:



Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll.

He'd probably be benched. Either that or traded.


Not if you are of the opinion that Daboll wouldn't let a situation become what it has with Murray/Kingsbury. That's something that doesn't just appear out of thin air, its ongoing. Murray isn't in the right, but a lot falls on Kingsbury.

Maybe he's uncoachable, its certainly possible. But Kingsbury stinks and doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
RE: RE: BBI is not a monolith  
pjcas18 : 11/28/2022 5:54 pm : link
In comment 15925628 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 15925023 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.



And somebody posted at length about why Weber kettles are bad grills.


Damn it. We had that one thing. Well I guess there's Ariens snowblowers. Every now and then a craftsman guy comes along and needs to be shouted out of the room.

RE: RE: RE: BBI is not a monolith  
Bill in UT : 11/28/2022 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15925716 pjcas18 said:
Quote:







Damn it. We had that one thing. Well I guess there's Ariens snowblowers.


But if Arian's was still in AZ, Murray probably would not be
RE: RE: RE: RE: BBI is not a monolith  
Bill in UT : 11/28/2022 6:47 pm : link
In comment 15925766 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15925716 pjcas18 said:


Quote:









Damn it. We had that one thing. Well I guess there's Ariens snowblowers.




But if Arian's was still in AZ, Murray probably would not be


Please ignore the " ' "
RE: I can’t believe people defending Murray still..  
bw in dc : 11/28/2022 7:05 pm : link
In comment 15925667 Sean said:
Quote:
Do you not see his contract? This is where I don’t get a lot here. I’m critical of Jones and the large reason is due to economics. Yet, we’ve got people here still talking up Murray with the money he is making. That contract can set a franchise back years. Now add in that he’s throwing the coach under the bus.

As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”

Awful leader too.


That's a different question - is Murray worth the contract he just signed? You asked if BBI still loves Murray.

From a skills standpoint, Murray has a lot of plus/plus+ ability. Abilities you can't teach. The skills he is currently lacking - leadership, decision making, maturity, etc - can be taught, I believe, with a better coach and culture. The guy is only 25.

Yes, he and the Cards are having a poor year. But one poor year doesn't mean his career is over and we should start throwing dirt on his grave...
RE: RE: RE: BBI is not a monolith  
BigBlueShock : 11/28/2022 7:15 pm : link
In comment 15925716 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15925628 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


In comment 15925023 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.



And somebody posted at length about why Weber kettles are bad grills.



Damn it. We had that one thing. Well I guess there's Ariens snowblowers. Every now and then a craftsman guy comes along and needs to be shouted out of the room.

If there was a thread with someone saying Weber are bad grills, that poster was simply trying too hard to be “that guy”. There’s no way they actually believe that shit
I’ve never thought much of him.  
Giant John : 11/28/2022 7:58 pm : link
I wouldn’t trade him even up for DJ.
Weber grills are good grills  
HomerJones45 : 11/28/2022 8:04 pm : link
But you have to overpay to get one
Looked really good at times  
JerrysKids : 11/28/2022 8:18 pm : link
But his contract and attitude are terrible, his size, is a problem long term. Glades he’s not on our roster.
Murray needs to grow up and put the time in to get better  
GMen72 : 11/28/2022 10:19 pm : link
If that happens, he'll be a stud. If not, he'll keep underachieving. His new contract makes him undesirable...but he's one of the most talented QBs in the NFL.
this is all nonsense  
djm : 11/29/2022 10:29 am : link
it NEVER looks good when a team is losing. NEVER. The media and fans will hunt down that one facial expression or single quote that brings with the drama, manufactured drama, and lots of it.

Murray said this and said that...who the hell cares. His HC is toast anyway and if he isn't toast they can kiss and make up. All that matters is winning. Is Murray hurting the team or helping it? Does he help the team score points or hinder it. Is he the best player on offense or a placeholder who you hope doesn't get in the way.

Everything else is nonsense that the fans lap up at every turn. Teams lose, shit gets nasty. You don't dump or blame the best player on the team because the team sucks ass or the coaching sucks ass. You coach and pump that player up. If all else fails you move on.

We'd be a much more dangerous offense if Murray and DJ switched places and this coming from someone who kind of likes Jones. I have defended Jones and wanted him to get another year. May even want him to get another year. And i'd drive his ass to zona right now if we could bring back Murray, attitude and all. Let me see the Eagles try and tackle him before I worry about wtf he said in some stupid PC.
coaching is the ultimate equalizer  
djm : 11/29/2022 10:31 am : link
..
things were "normal and quiet" here  
djm : 11/29/2022 10:36 am : link
when Shurmur's ship was sinking fast in 2019. NO ONE came back in 2020, including Eli. Did it matter that Shurmur "was an adult?" --nope.

No one is safe from losing even if you say all the right shit or act perfectly for the cancel and judgement crowd. Murray says one thing that just adds some juice, but the ship be sinking, no matter what.

I am not saying it's good to act like an asshole or say stupid shit, it can underman the process, maybe, to some extent, but its words, solicited and then parsed and hyper analyzed for people to go nuts over. They don't matter unless they are truly dangerous or hateful. None of that stupid shit matters.
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