Just wondering. Another bad loss for the 4-8 Cardinals. Murray publicly bashing the coaching staff in the post game. Murray has a massive contract. Yikes.
After the Joe Judge rant about players begging to come play for him we were the joke of the league and one of the worst situations in football. Feels good to say with certainty that they are other teams now that seem to have more problems than us for the future. What we pay our "Number 1 receiver" this year still makes us one of the worst team in cap management for the year but at least it wont last long.
BBI opinion on Murray. Not sure what the point is here?
People were high on Murray after his rookie season and for good reason. Opinions have likely changed since his play has fallen off a cliff. Most rationale people evolve their opinions as more facts become available.
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
I'd say the Giants line is a little below league average at this point - but a massive improvement over absolute rock bottom last year.
The teams that are winning are by and large getting good offensive line play. (Or in the case of Dallas, the refs let them hold).
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
We can thank the rise of the spread offense in college football for the fade in offensive line talent.
out of Oklahoma. Couldn't get over his height. I still think he's 5'8" or less.
But Murray has done some good things in the NFL. I've been impressed by his agility to make NFL defenders look ordinary when chasing him. And his arm is very good. The Cards did make the playoffs last and had improved every year since Murray arrived. Of course, information like that requires a little homework from the board...
Murray, however, has regressed this year. Seems like it's time for a new marriage with HC and QB.
Is anybody going to be daft enough to say it's time to declare Murray DOA? I would hope people aren't the dumb. Murray has a very interesting tool box...
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
His talent lies in his legs, defensive coordinators get paid a lot of money to figure how to stop his running and force him to stand in the pocket and throw the ball, and that is where he fails.
other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.
I think it is obvious that Sean means 'those on bbi' rather than the whole forum. This to me is in the same class as when people speak their opinion as fact, so when that individual gets called on it, you get the 'well of course it is an opinion, what else could it be?'.
Communication gets muddied a bit when it is left up to others to determine what our words mean.
I love how the opinion of 20 people is the definitive
Dudes a leader, team first guy
He is pretty average but rather have a better cast on offense and roll with him next yr than a guy like Murray or that idiotic contract Wilson got extended on when he had two more yrs on his
Seriously, could’ve been a let’s see yr for Denver instead being stuck
Dudes a leader, team first guy
He is pretty average but rather have a better cast on offense and roll with him next yr than a guy like Murray or that idiotic contract Wilson got extended on when he had two more yrs on his
Seriously, could’ve been a let’s see yr for Denver instead being stuck
Yeah ok. Can he leadership his way to a three yard out? "Pretty average" is generous.
I have never been a Murray fan. That said, Cardinals have defensive problems. 30th in points allowed and 31st in passing td's. Murray is basically doing what Murray has done since he has been in the League. There is just no margin for error with that defense.
...so let's see if he chimes in here. Link - ( New Window )
Also, I said THIS is dumb I never called you dumb.
And my posts were 100% accurate. Murray scores POINTS. That means he’s productive. Overrated is an ambiguous monitor to throw around. Overrated by who? Murray is (was) productive as a QB. I stand by that. Even this year his stats aren’t terrible. Again, overrated? The fuck does that even mean? Should he not start? Would he be better qb here than Daniel jones? Is he better than Prescott? How bad is overrated? It’s ambiguous.
He’s hung 40 on a team this season. Remember what scoring 40 looked like here?
I love athletic QBs….I don’t want just a pocket passer like Eli any longer. I want a guy who can move laterally and throw on the run. I especially want a qb who can take off to pick up that 3rd a 4.
Disclaimer: I’m only talking about him, not his contract
that's for sure. I'd take him as my starting QB in a second. You can build around him IMO. Coaching over there has been pretty bad. Daboll would have him balling out over here.
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
His talent lies in his legs, defensive coordinators get paid a lot of money to figure how to stop his running and force him to stand in the pocket and throw the ball, and that is where he fails.
Its where he's currently failing. But he succeeded before and can still again. The absolute hate for athletic QB's is so strange on this site. You realize his career isn't over and he can get better, right? Pair him with a real NFL HC and lets see what happens.
that's for sure. I'd take him as my starting QB in a second. You can build around him IMO. Coaching over there has been pretty bad. Daboll would have him balling out over here.
I seriously doubt that. But then again I was saying the same thing to the claims that Wilson would be great here. Put Murray on a team with considerably less talent and he will ball out? Logic says no.
out of Oklahoma. Couldn't get over his height. I still think he's 5'8" or less.
But Murray has done some good things in the NFL. I've been impressed by his agility to make NFL defenders look ordinary when chasing him. And his arm is very good. The Cards did make the playoffs last and had improved every year since Murray arrived. Of course, information like that requires a little homework from the board...
Murray, however, has regressed this year. Seems like it's time for a new marriage with HC and QB.
Is anybody going to be daft enough to say it's time to declare Murray DOA? I would hope people aren't the dumb. Murray has a very interesting tool box...
But he also seems to be a bit of a tool. *grin*
He has always struck me as completely lacking any leadership qualities.
other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.
And somebody posted at length about why Weber kettles are bad grills.
I just finished watching the game before opening this thread
I think those who keep track of these things know I've never been a Murray fan. That said, I don't think this loss was on him. Greatly helped by having Hopkins and Marquis Brown, as well as Green on the field, he did ok passing. I don't recall any stupid passes. If Trey McBride, the rookie TE in for Ertz, had held onto a couple of second half passes, the Cards may have put more points up. And they may have used Conner too much trying to protect the lead.
That said, he's really an asshole putting down the coaches publicly.
that's for sure. I'd take him as my starting QB in a second. You can build around him IMO. Coaching over there has been pretty bad. Daboll would have him balling out over here.
I don't agree that it's night and day. As a physical talent, slight edge to Murray, IMO, mostly because he's more elusive and probably has a stronger arm. DJ's height advantage is significant IMV. DJ is probably at least as fast as a straight-line runner but he's not elusive.
As a leader, big edge to DJ., but Murray's not awful in that regard, the way that Zach Wilson and Carson Wentz have been awful. He just seems whiny and immature. Hopefully he'd grow out of that. DJ clearly has the respect of his teammates and coaches. Not sure Murray does, but I'm not sure he doesn't, either.
Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll. I don't think any QB prospect would really develop and thrive under Kingsbury.
Do you not see his contract? This is where I don’t get a lot here. I’m critical of Jones and the large reason is due to economics. Yet, we’ve got people here still talking up Murray with the money he is making. That contract can set a franchise back years. Now add in that he’s throwing the coach under the bus.
As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”
Awful leader too.
RE: I can’t believe people defending Murray still..
Do you not see his contract? This is where I don’t get a lot here. I’m critical of Jones and the large reason is due to economics. Yet, we’ve got people here still talking up Murray with the money he is making. That contract can set a franchise back years. Now add in that he’s throwing the coach under the bus.
As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”
Awful leader too.
My problem with this POV is it basically says "his time as an impact QB is now over, investment blown". Players have down years, and in Murray's case he's got some maturity issues. But his career isn't over and he's suffered no major injuries. Its a really enticing situation for a new HC IMO.
By the way 17 scores in 10 games = 29 scores over a full season. And most of that production came without Hopkins and Brown. I'll give Murray another couple of seasons before I declare that contract a blunder.
Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll.
He'd probably be benched. Either that or traded.
Not if you are of the opinion that Daboll wouldn't let a situation become what it has with Murray/Kingsbury. That's something that doesn't just appear out of thin air, its ongoing. Murray isn't in the right, but a lot falls on Kingsbury.
Maybe he's uncoachable, its certainly possible. But Kingsbury stinks and doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.
And somebody posted at length about why Weber kettles are bad grills.
Damn it. We had that one thing. Well I guess there's Ariens snowblowers. Every now and then a craftsman guy comes along and needs to be shouted out of the room.
People were high on Murray after his rookie season and for good reason. Opinions have likely changed since his play has fallen off a cliff. Most rationale people evolve their opinions as more facts become available.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
He also apparently is not a leader.
Murray looks toxic at times, not a team player.
Get a good QB, doesnt have to be great, but good team fit and build around him with talent.
Even Jimmy G looks good now with a good RBs and a very good defense.
However, Kliff is also a disaster. Has never demonstrated to be a good coach in any way. He went 16-21 with Mahomes.
Lot of variables and it's not apples to apples, but what are Kyler and Mahomes college/pro records with/without Kliff?
Me neither. I don’t see him ever winning anything of significance.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
Quote:
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
I'd say the Giants line is a little below league average at this point - but a massive improvement over absolute rock bottom last year.
The teams that are winning are by and large getting good offensive line play. (Or in the case of Dallas, the refs let them hold).
Quote:
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
Also, the thought around here on BBI that there are all these great OLines around the NFL, and it’s just the Giants, is dead wrong. There is a lack of quality OLines around the league
We can thank the rise of the spread offense in college football for the fade in offensive line talent.
But Murray has done some good things in the NFL. I've been impressed by his agility to make NFL defenders look ordinary when chasing him. And his arm is very good. The Cards did make the playoffs last and had improved every year since Murray arrived. Of course, information like that requires a little homework from the board...
Murray, however, has regressed this year. Seems like it's time for a new marriage with HC and QB.
Is anybody going to be daft enough to say it's time to declare Murray DOA? I would hope people aren't the dumb. Murray has a very interesting tool box...
Link - ( New Window )
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
I think he is going to be an unemployed coach soon enough.
I don't even know how he wound up with the Arizona job?
Communication gets muddied a bit when it is left up to others to determine what our words mean.
He is pretty average but rather have a better cast on offense and roll with him next yr than a guy like Murray or that idiotic contract Wilson got extended on when he had two more yrs on his
Seriously, could’ve been a let’s see yr for Denver instead being stuck
Quote:
has ever been a winning/good coach.
.
I think he is going to be an unemployed coach soon enough.
I don't even know how he wound up with the Arizona job?
Near as I can tell, his qualifications were that he's photogenic and stood next to Mahomes in College.
It sure wasn't winning and success where he's coached.
He is pretty average but rather have a better cast on offense and roll with him next yr than a guy like Murray or that idiotic contract Wilson got extended on when he had two more yrs on his
Seriously, could’ve been a let’s see yr for Denver instead being stuck
I have never been a Murray fan. That said, Cardinals have defensive problems. 30th in points allowed and 31st in passing td's. Murray is basically doing what Murray has done since he has been in the League. There is just no margin for error with that defense.
However, Kliff is also a disaster. Has never demonstrated to be a good coach in any way. He went 16-21 with Mahomes.
Lot of variables and it's not apples to apples, but what are Kyler and Mahomes college/pro records with/without Kliff?
My takes as well.
I’m here. We’ll see how his career looks when all is said and done. He wasn’t overrated when he was playing well. Now he’s not. You win for now.
Also, I said THIS is dumb I never called you dumb.
And my posts were 100% accurate. Murray scores POINTS. That means he’s productive. Overrated is an ambiguous monitor to throw around. Overrated by who? Murray is (was) productive as a QB. I stand by that. Even this year his stats aren’t terrible. Again, overrated? The fuck does that even mean? Should he not start? Would he be better qb here than Daniel jones? Is he better than Prescott? How bad is overrated? It’s ambiguous.
He’s hung 40 on a team this season. Remember what scoring 40 looked like here?
In 14 games— over 4000 total yards and 29 tds. His best wr was AJ Green for most of the year. 11 wins 449 pts.
But ok.
Disclaimer: I’m only talking about him, not his contract
Quote:
there’s a bunch of QBs underperforming this year and I think it’s twofold. 1, defenses seem to be catching up and 2. There’s a whole lot of bad coaching out there.
Not ready to call it a bad contract but things likely won’t get better under Kingsbury so IMO he needs to be fired and they need a good hire to right the ship.
His talent lies in his legs, defensive coordinators get paid a lot of money to figure how to stop his running and force him to stand in the pocket and throw the ball, and that is where he fails.
Its where he's currently failing. But he succeeded before and can still again. The absolute hate for athletic QB's is so strange on this site. You realize his career isn't over and he can get better, right? Pair him with a real NFL HC and lets see what happens.
ESPN panel was ripping him last week.
And watching Hard Knocks, I don't really like the locker room they have out there, starting with the HC.
I seriously doubt that. But then again I was saying the same thing to the claims that Wilson would be great here. Put Murray on a team with considerably less talent and he will ball out? Logic says no.
But Murray has done some good things in the NFL. I've been impressed by his agility to make NFL defenders look ordinary when chasing him. And his arm is very good. The Cards did make the playoffs last and had improved every year since Murray arrived. Of course, information like that requires a little homework from the board...
Murray, however, has regressed this year. Seems like it's time for a new marriage with HC and QB.
Is anybody going to be daft enough to say it's time to declare Murray DOA? I would hope people aren't the dumb. Murray has a very interesting tool box...
But he also seems to be a bit of a tool. *grin*
He has always struck me as completely lacking any leadership qualities.
That's a tough sell in an NFL locker room.
On the other hand, I'm really not sold on Kingsbury as a winning NFL HC.
I could be wrong, though.
That said, he's really an asshole putting down the coaches publicly.
As a leader, big edge to DJ., but Murray's not awful in that regard, the way that Zach Wilson and Carson Wentz have been awful. He just seems whiny and immature. Hopefully he'd grow out of that. DJ clearly has the respect of his teammates and coaches. Not sure Murray does, but I'm not sure he doesn't, either.
Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll. I don't think any QB prospect would really develop and thrive under Kingsbury.
As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”
Awful leader too.
As Mike Lombardi said on his podcast today, “Is there anyone else this guy can throw under the bus?.”
Awful leader too.
My problem with this POV is it basically says "his time as an impact QB is now over, investment blown". Players have down years, and in Murray's case he's got some maturity issues. But his career isn't over and he's suffered no major injuries. Its a really enticing situation for a new HC IMO.
By the way 17 scores in 10 games = 29 scores over a full season. And most of that production came without Hopkins and Brown. I'll give Murray another couple of seasons before I declare that contract a blunder.
Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll.
Quote:
Murray's had better players on his O; DJ's had better coaching (this year). It'd be interesting to see how Murray would do under Daboll.
He'd probably be benched. Either that or traded.
Not if you are of the opinion that Daboll wouldn't let a situation become what it has with Murray/Kingsbury. That's something that doesn't just appear out of thin air, its ongoing. Murray isn't in the right, but a lot falls on Kingsbury.
Maybe he's uncoachable, its certainly possible. But Kingsbury stinks and doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Quote:
other than Weber grills and Ariens snowblowers I don't think there is anything there is a BBI consensus on or close to it and even those topic are less and less of a consensus over time.
And somebody posted at length about why Weber kettles are bad grills.
Damn it. We had that one thing. Well I guess there's Ariens snowblowers. Every now and then a craftsman guy comes along and needs to be shouted out of the room.