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Bobby Skinner reviews Giants vs Dallas ...

Manny in CA : 11/28/2022 11:57 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3xAAhqSKlk

The offense played good enough to win, but the defense just had too many vital pieces missing to contain Dallas.

Check-out the play of Gates and Brightwell. (I sure hope the Giants don't screw up and move Nick to guard, again). Only rub I have against Dan Jones is his not taking the wide-open check-downs, when the deep ball are no there.
...  
broadbandz : 11/29/2022 12:05 am : link
Jones biggest mistake was something not a single fan saw. Missing the 50 yd pass before half-time. Instead BBI wants to kill him for throwing in a window 5 inches behind on 4 and 1 instead of a getting it batted down at the line.
The line was really bad …especially the middle  
dancing blue bear : 11/29/2022 1:32 am : link
Jones was def speeding up the clock and rushed some throws. Mostly it was necessary tho.

There were a few eautifully designed plays that would have been big gains that were blown up by the guards.

Love gates. We need Neal back and glowinski on the bench. Bredson ezuda

Mr Thibs is ready to bust out. ILBs are really bad and we ran out of horses on the back end.

I wish they stopped blitzing on 3rd and long but

Damn the torpedoes, I guess
We get Neal back this week and Gates has another week of practice  
SGMen : 11/29/2022 6:09 am : link
This OL must come together vs the Commanders front 7 else we will lose a 17 - 13 type game.

I will add this much as well: Galloday has been a flop but I still pray he wakes up and delivers cause he does have skills. Maybe he lost his mojo with the money and some injuries. But the playoffs are up ahead and he can make more money by playing well as he is young enough. We will forget his first season and to date if he produces down the stretch and secures us a playoff spot with a big touchdown.
Looking for Golladay to step up?  
NYGgolfer : 11/29/2022 7:02 am : link
I don't think Jones even throws to him anymore. There are no plays in the playbook where Golladay is an actual target any longer.

RE: Looking for Golladay to step up?  
section125 : 11/29/2022 7:08 am : link
In comment 15926014 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
I don't think Jones even throws to him anymore. There are no plays in the playbook where Golladay is an actual target any longer.


Weirdly, he is never a target. You do not even know he is on the field anymore, except in a huddle shot. Cannot imagine how frustrating that is to him. But clearly he does nothing to show up on Jones radar.
RE: RE: Looking for Golladay to step up?  
NYGgolfer : 11/29/2022 7:22 am : link
In comment 15926015 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15926014 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


I don't think Jones even throws to him anymore. There are no plays in the playbook where Golladay is an actual target any longer.




Weirdly, he is never a target. You do not even know he is on the field anymore, except in a huddle shot. Cannot imagine how frustrating that is to him. But clearly he does nothing to show up on Jones radar.


His job is to come in for some run-blocking plays, spell some other guys on snaps and maybe get open as as the last progression.

Quite the $20M asset our former regime signed up.
Bobby really on  
section125 : 11/29/2022 7:57 am : link
DJ this week. That last drive of 1st half where DJ holds the ball when Tanner is open is frustrating and maddening. It seems to me that Jones sees the field, he just does not react to it. He clearly sees Tanner is open with the field cleared ahead of Tanner but is afraid to pull the trigger. That is what I have said for a while and perhaps that is what the crowd that says Jones can't read is talking about - just using different terminology.
And I was wrong about the 4th and 1 debacle. I thought it was a totally bad pass, which it was, but it was catchable and even with the tumble would have been a 1st. Also, some of the plays designed by Kafka are there but not completed. Daboll and Kafka had the plays there to beat the Cowboys and two or three completed passes has the Giants right there at the end.

These are the reasons that it is time to move on to a new QB.

Good job by Skinner.
RE: Bobby really on  
Biteymax22 : 11/29/2022 8:22 am : link
In comment 15926030 section125 said:
Quote:
DJ this week. That last drive of 1st half where DJ holds the ball when Tanner is open is frustrating and maddening. It seems to me that Jones sees the field, he just does not react to it. He clearly sees Tanner is open with the field cleared ahead of Tanner but is afraid to pull the trigger. That is what I have said for a while and perhaps that is what the crowd that says Jones can't read is talking about - just using different terminology.
And I was wrong about the 4th and 1 debacle. I thought it was a totally bad pass, which it was, but it was catchable and even with the tumble would have been a 1st. Also, some of the plays designed by Kafka are there but not completed. Daboll and Kafka had the plays there to beat the Cowboys and two or three completed passes has the Giants right there at the end.

These are the reasons that it is time to move on to a new QB.

Good job by Skinner.


I'm on a similar thought train as you regarding why Jones doesn't pull the trigger. I do think he sees it, I just don't think he processes it sometimes. I've been trying to stay neutral until the end of the year on his evaluation, but I will say the number 1 thing concerning me was processing speed at the beginning of the season and this hasn't changed.
RE: RE: Bobby really on  
BigBlueShock : 11/29/2022 9:00 am : link
In comment 15926046 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15926030 section125 said:


Quote:


DJ this week. That last drive of 1st half where DJ holds the ball when Tanner is open is frustrating and maddening. It seems to me that Jones sees the field, he just does not react to it. He clearly sees Tanner is open with the field cleared ahead of Tanner but is afraid to pull the trigger. That is what I have said for a while and perhaps that is what the crowd that says Jones can't read is talking about - just using different terminology.
And I was wrong about the 4th and 1 debacle. I thought it was a totally bad pass, which it was, but it was catchable and even with the tumble would have been a 1st. Also, some of the plays designed by Kafka are there but not completed. Daboll and Kafka had the plays there to beat the Cowboys and two or three completed passes has the Giants right there at the end.

These are the reasons that it is time to move on to a new QB.

Good job by Skinner.



I'm on a similar thought train as you regarding why Jones doesn't pull the trigger. I do think he sees it, I just don't think he processes it sometimes. I've been trying to stay neutral until the end of the year on his evaluation, but I will say the number 1 thing concerning me was processing speed at the beginning of the season and this hasn't changed.

I have no doubt Jones has processing issues but that play Skinner pointed out with the TE running open and Jones looking right at him but deciding not to pull the trigger is not a processing issue. Imo, rookie Daniel Jones makes that throw 100 times out of 100. He was much more willing to throw the ball downfield back then. The issue is he’s had the “risk” beaten out of him by the past two regimes because of the turnovers. He is deathly afraid to throw an interception now. Once that trepidation is ingrained in your head it’s almost impossible to overcome. He simply doesn’t trust what he sees at this point. And that’s not likely to change moving forward.
RE: RE: RE: Bobby really on  
section125 : 11/29/2022 9:12 am : link
In comment 15926071 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:


I'm on a similar thought train as you regarding why Jones doesn't pull the trigger. I do think he sees it, I just don't think he processes it sometimes. I've been trying to stay neutral until the end of the year on his evaluation, but I will say the number 1 thing concerning me was processing speed at the beginning of the season and this hasn't changed.


I have no doubt Jones has processing issues but that play Skinner pointed out with the TE running open and Jones looking right at him but deciding not to pull the trigger is not a processing issue. Imo, rookie Daniel Jones makes that throw 100 times out of 100. He was much more willing to throw the ball downfield back then. The issue is he’s had the “risk” beaten out of him by the past two regimes because of the turnovers. He is deathly afraid to throw an interception now. Once that trepidation is ingrained in your head it’s almost impossible to overcome. He simply doesn’t trust what he sees at this point. And that’s not likely to change moving forward.


I have no clue as to why he does not pull the trigger more often on many plays - and sometimes he does. Was it Judge and Garrett? Not so sure anymore.
The term processing means different things to different people. The play Skinner shows down near the end zone where Slayton was running a slant but Jones ignores it and then gets sacked is just as damning. Any QB in the NFL makes that throw. He held the safety, Slayton was under the CB and clearly open for a ball with some lead and zip on it, yet he holds the ball and gets sacked.
RE: RE: RE: Bobby really on  
ajr2456 : 11/29/2022 9:16 am : link
In comment 15926071 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
The issue is he’s had the “risk” beaten out of him by the past two regimes because of the turnovers. He is deathly afraid to throw an interception now. Once that trepidation is ingrained in your head it’s almost impossible to overcome. He simply doesn’t trust what he sees at this point. And that’s not likely to change moving forward.


I think this is a cop out. Two years of poor coaching doesn’t undo all the previous years of understanding how to play quarterback. And if Judge/Garrett we’re able to change his mindset that quick, why can’t it be flipped back around?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bobby really on  
Mike from Ohio : 11/29/2022 9:41 am : link
In comment 15926088 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15926071 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


The issue is he’s had the “risk” beaten out of him by the past two regimes because of the turnovers. He is deathly afraid to throw an interception now. Once that trepidation is ingrained in your head it’s almost impossible to overcome. He simply doesn’t trust what he sees at this point. And that’s not likely to change moving forward.



I think this is a cop out. Two years of poor coaching doesn’t undo all the previous years of understanding how to play quarterback. And if Judge/Garrett we’re able to change his mindset that quick, why can’t it be flipped back around?


Agree. The knock on Jones coming out of college was he didn't make quick and good decisions. It was in Sy
s wrote up pre-draft. Blaming coaches after than point for his inability to make quick and good decisions is disingenuous.

Jones will always be a step or two behind most other NFL QBs in making decisions. If the light never came on in college and hasn't come on in his 4th NFL season, it isn't magically coming on next year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bobby really on  
BigBlueShock : 11/29/2022 10:41 am : link
In comment 15926088 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15926071 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


The issue is he’s had the “risk” beaten out of him by the past two regimes because of the turnovers. He is deathly afraid to throw an interception now. Once that trepidation is ingrained in your head it’s almost impossible to overcome. He simply doesn’t trust what he sees at this point. And that’s not likely to change moving forward.



I think this is a cop out. Two years of poor coaching doesn’t undo all the previous years of understanding how to play quarterback. And if Judge/Garrett we’re able to change his mindset that quick, why can’t it be flipped back around?

This is two separate issues but I’m not surprised you won’t acknowledge that. Anything you say about Jones needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.You simply cannot have a rational conversation when it comes to Jones.

As I said in my post, that play Skinner focused on had absolutely nothing to do with processing skills. It was Jones being afraid to pull the trigger. He was literally looking right at the TE streaking past the defender. That isn’t a processing issue on that play. Also, go back and watch rookie Jones videos. He was much more willing to throw the ball downfield when he first came into the league. If you don’t think four straight years of coaches screaming at you and drilling it into your head that they don’t want you to put the ball in harms way has any mental effect on a QB then you are even more clueless that we all thought. It’s not a cop out to suggest Jones has been coached out of taking risks. It’s the truth. That doesn’t mean he still doesn’t have processing issues, which I CLEARLY stated in my post so that should make you feel better, right? It is possible for both to be true. He’s got processing issues AND he’s afraid of taking risks. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? With you, it’s difficult to comprehend because you were so afraid that it meant that I was defendJones and we can’t have that with you around. But I wasn’t defendJones at all…
Not sure why you’re so riled up  
ajr2456 : 11/29/2022 10:52 am : link
And not sure why I would need to discuss both issues when I only commented on one of the issues. I wasn’t talking about the play in question, just the statement that Judge/Garrett had beaten him into submission.

But let’s address this

Quote:
If you don’t think four straight years of coaches screaming at you and drilling it into your head that they don’t want you to put the ball in harms way has any mental effect on a QB then you are even more clueless that we all thought. It’s not a cop out to suggest Jones has been coached out of taking risks. It’s the truth.


What four years? He’s only been in the league 4 years, Judge was his coach for two of those years. If you’re gonna say other peoples opinions need to be taken with a grain of salt, at least be factual in yours. Also “coaches screaming at you to not put the ball in harms way” is something every coach gets on their QB not to do, and any suggestion that they coached him to play that way is simply conjecture. The offensive game plan was risk adverse but there’s no evidence they told him not to take shots unless a guys wide open, and QBs will play for different schemes throughout their careers. If two years of playing in a conservative one turns you into a QB that’s scared to pull the trigger, you weren’t built to play QB in the NFL.
If it was beaten into Jones' head  
Mike from Ohio : 11/29/2022 11:33 am : link
that you can't throw the ball unless your receiver is completely uncovered, how do you explain the jump ball he threw to Slayton for a TD against Dallas?

If it was truly beaten out of him over the years, that ball would have never been thrown.
Part of explanation might be identity of potential target  
Bob in Newburgh : 11/29/2022 11:45 am : link
Tanner Hudson does not belong on a fully formed NFL roster. We have no insight into what TH is doing with more difficult throws in practice.
RE: Part of explanation might be identity of potential target  
Dr. D : 11/29/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15926249 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Tanner Hudson does not belong on a fully formed NFL roster. We have no insight into what TH is doing with more difficult throws in practice.

good point. Would he have thrown it, if the target was Bellinger?
I def believe this staff  
dancing blue bear : 11/29/2022 12:38 pm : link
Has coached him to be conservative in his reads this year. This whole offense has such a small margin for error I believe a turnover in most cases is crippling. It’s funny even the slayton shot play in Seattle on the all 22 or was similar to Hudson. He looked right at it and decided to take the first down. That whole week people were crying that he missed it but I don’t think he did. It’s weird. You def can’t pass those up.

It’s hard to say. I def feel like the coaches are coaching him to take what’s there first. Otoh you gotta pull the trigger sometimes.

RE: Part of explanation might be identity of potential target  
section125 : 11/29/2022 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15926249 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Tanner Hudson does not belong on a fully formed NFL roster. We have no insight into what TH is doing with more difficult throws in practice.


He has already completed passes to Hudson, so I doubt it was that..
Good point Dr. D  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/29/2022 1:31 pm : link
Bellinger is a big add on if he is healthy.

Jones is missing some plays. It is tougher when he does not have the run game support facing worse down/distance which leads to a lot of the roster shortcomings showing. No one wants these missed plays. These tend to be magnified in importance when you don't have the other components on working.

I think we see a big change if both Neal and particularly Bellinger comes back. This is going to take pressure off Jones imv.
RE: I def believe this staff  
JerseyCityJoe : 11/29/2022 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15926318 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
Has coached him to be conservative in his reads this year. This whole offense has such a small margin for error I believe a turnover in most cases is crippling. It’s funny even the slayton shot play in Seattle on the all 22 or was similar to Hudson. He looked right at it and decided to take the first down. That whole week people were crying that he missed it but I don’t think he did. It’s weird. You def can’t pass those up.

+1

I don't believe any of that he got the gunslinger beat out of him crap.

It’s hard to say. I def feel like the coaches are coaching him to take what’s there first. Otoh you gotta pull the trigger sometimes.
RE: I def believe this staff  
Scooter185 : 11/29/2022 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15926318 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
Has coached him to be conservative in his reads this year. This whole offense has such a small margin for error I believe a turnover in most cases is crippling. It’s funny even the slayton shot play in Seattle on the all 22 or was similar to Hudson. He looked right at it and decided to take the first down. That whole week people were crying that he missed it but I don’t think he did. It’s weird. You def can’t pass those up.

It’s hard to say. I def feel like the coaches are coaching him to take what’s there first. Otoh you gotta pull the trigger sometimes.


One of the big knocks in Te's report was Jones trying to force it into coverage leading to lots of bat downs and break ups, if not INTs. Now he seems to have gone the opposite way.
Minor point  
regulator : 11/29/2022 5:18 pm : link
but our IDL depth is trash. Ellis and Mondeaux are massive dropoffs from Leo and Dex, which is why we have them playing so many reps.
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