Find it hard to believe they would pass up two good ones mocked shortly after to take a LB.
Really. I get drafting based on “need” is supposedly a no, no but things being even somewhat equal the Giants take a WR if there is one that’s reasonable.
On what he is hearing from his contacts around the league and he acknowledges it is very early in the process
Smith-Nijba and Hyatt WR’s selected after Sanders
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Exactly
Giants have so many needs. WR is at the top of the list for sure, but the same argument could be made for so many other positions on the Giants
In no specific order:
QB
WR
G/C
RB (if Barkley leaves)
CB
MLB
OLB (if the regime isn't sold on Azeez
DE/DT Not quite sure how Martindale's scheme plays a part in this need, but Dex and LW are the only reliable "hands on the ground" defensive players we have
It would not shock me if any of those positions listed above are our first round pick.
He has the Giants selecting WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba (Ohio State) at #16, which means he has the Giants out of the playoffs. This weekend may determine how accurate that forecast is.
A couple positions I take off the list but I agree with your thoughts on BPA.
I also can see JS trying to trade down his round 1 pick and start to accumulate picks for 2024. How he sees the QB position will be a big incentive to do or not.
You don't pass up this year's version of a Micah Parsons (even a poor-man's version of) for a WR. You can usually get good WRs throughout the draft. And they're probably going to try get some in FA before the draft (too).
They have so many needs, it's really BPA. It always is, but this year, the first rounder could literally be ANY position other than RB and QB, and it would fill a need.
Find it hard to believe they would pass up two good ones mocked shortly after to take a LB.
Our LB corps is arguably worse than the WR unit. It needs an infusion of talent badly. This is a very defensible pick.
Isn’t this the same logic DG used in the Barkley pick. Not thought of positional value.
I think Barkley was actually BPA, the other choice was Darnold. Section, agreed, Im fine with LB #1, in fact BUF did that with Edmunds so there is history there as well that Schoen was a part of.
Every year these pundits mock LBs to the Giants in the first round. Every year. Without fail. But the last time the Giants selected a LB in the firs round was Carl Banks in 1983!
has been able to cover up for bad LB play. While It needs to be addressed I think WR is higher on the list as this offense needs help now and ypu cant tell me who we have that will still be on the roster next year at WR, besides Wandale who you cant tell me when he will be available. If we also lose Barkley we will have 0 playmakers come draft day.
has been able to cover up for bad LB play. While It needs to be addressed I think WR is higher on the list as this offense needs help now and ypu cant tell me who we have that will still be on the roster next year at WR, besides Wandale who you cant tell me when he will be available. If we also lose Barkley we will have 0 playmakers come draft day.
I mean, we could say the same at LB. Beavers? Mcfadden? We are penciling those two in? Just like you can find LBs on day 2 and 3 you can find WRs. We took Wandale when we could have taken Pickens or Pierce. Both are HUGE holes for the Giants.
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Exactly
Giants have so many needs. WR is at the top of the list for sure, but the same argument could be made for so many other positions on the Giants
In no specific order:
QB
WR
G/C
RB (if Barkley leaves)
CB
MLB
OLB (if the regime isn't sold on Azeez
DE/DT Not quite sure how Martindale's scheme plays a part in this need, but Dex and LW are the only reliable "hands on the ground" defensive players we have
It would not shock me if any of those positions listed above are our first round pick.
We are NOT one piece away.
The Giants don't have a need for a qb, they have a very good young qb, they have way too many holes to fill to be looking for a qb.
We need talent all over
If Lb is warranted and 2 WRs over the next 3 rds ( plus a vet wr3/4 who desont break bank), I would do it
At wr3/4 in nfl is basically a slayton type. Maybe bring him back
I would give SS a chance on a 1 yr prove it deal. Can’t count on him but maybe the guy gets some luck for a yr. He would be a solid 3/4 at this point too
Every year these pundits mock LBs to the Giants in the first round. Every year. Without fail. But the last time the Giants selected a LB in the firs round was Carl Banks in 1983!
New regime, new scheme. You can't overlay decisions prior to this year in determining how this staff will draft
Every year these pundits mock LBs to the Giants in the first round. Every year. Without fail. But the last time the Giants selected a LB in the firs round was Carl Banks in 1983!
Isn’t Thibs a LBer? Yea, an ER, but essentially an OLB.
But I think a lot of you are looking at a mock draft published in November a little too literally. Of course it's going to be needs-centric but the purpose of these are to gain a better understanding of the early landscape. That is going to change, some of these guys wont get drafted until Rd3 or later and others not even on the radar will shoot up to the first round. However, its a good snapshot of guys to maybe pay attention to entering the playoffs and bowl season.
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Exactly
Giants have so many needs. WR is at the top of the list for sure, but the same argument could be made for so many other positions on the Giants
In no specific order:
QB
WR
G/C
RB (if Barkley leaves)
CB
MLB
OLB (if the regime isn't sold on Azeez
DE/DT Not quite sure how Martindale's scheme plays a part in this need, but Dex and LW are the only reliable "hands on the ground" defensive players we have
It would not shock me if any of those positions listed above are our first round pick.
We are NOT one piece away.
The Giants don't have a need for a qb, they have a very good young qb, they have way too many holes to fill to be looking for a qb.
It’s a huge stretch to call Tyrod Taylor “very good” or “young”…
but you can make a case that ILB is the biggest hole on the team.
It’s also a hole that can be filled by a pretty reasonably priced FA.
In theory sure, but only if the FA chooses us over another team.
If one doesn't, I can see it addressed in the draft. I think Schoen has the luxury/misfortune of being able to choose from almost every position because they all need upgrading.
But I think a lot of you are looking at a mock draft published in November a little too literally. Of course it's going to be needs-centric but the purpose of these are to gain a better understanding of the early landscape. That is going to change, some of these guys wont get drafted until Rd3 or later and others not even on the radar will shoot up to the first round. However, its a good snapshot of guys to maybe pay attention to entering the playoffs and bowl season.
The bigger thing I see, and as bad as our WR room looks, I doubt value will come close to matching need there. ILB however is just as a massive need and if we are picking late 20s you start to worry less about positional value. People here acting like this isn’t a HUGE hole. We absolutely stink against the run with guys like Dexy, LW, Jihad Ward, and to a lesser extent Thibs up front….that’s how bad those guys are.
There are at least some quality ILB's that become free agents in 2023 including Tremaine Edmunds and Devin Bush. I can't say the same for the WR group that will become free agents next year. So maybe we address ILB in free agency and draft a WR in the 1st.
so it comes down to prospect and positional value and upside projection. QB and CB figure to be in the mix, and they still have considerable needs on both lines.
Every year these pundits mock LBs to the Giants in the first round. Every year. Without fail. But the last time the Giants selected a LB in the firs round was Carl Banks in 1983!
Ehh you can argue Thibs is a LBer
If a WR is chosen in the first round Jack Campbell of Iowa
so it comes down to prospect and positional value and upside projection. QB and CB figure to be in the mix, and they still have considerable needs on both lines.
I would think you can get the LB via cheaper means in vet FA compared to the equally as talented WR in FA. All things being equal in terms of player's talent and age, LB might be a little cheaper...but then you have to get him.
Every year these pundits mock LBs to the Giants in the first round. Every year. Without fail. But the last time the Giants selected a LB in the firs round was Carl Banks in 1983!
Ehh you can argue Thibs is a LBer
I think we're talking about non-edge linebackers. Thibs is a pass rushing edge, as was Banks.
New regime, anything can happen, but I don't see from what we know of Schoen's background that ILB will be a priority. The Beane philosophy was trenches, particularly DL, and corners. They did draft Tremaine Edmunds in the 1st round in the same draft they moved up for Josh Allen.
I could see CB, QB, or DL as the most likely positions of focus in the first round. I think with receivers, IOL in rounds 2-4.
We will need another strong draft. I would say the one thing to note is I believe the Giants just scouted Arkansas live.
I also think the economics of the game have to factor in to draft capital allocation. Use early picks on the most expensive positions. Every year, until you are good enough not to do that.
That said the Giants haven't drafted a true LB/non "edge" type in RD1 I think since Banks.
We will need another strong draft. I would say the one thing to note is I believe the Giants just scouted Arkansas live.
I also think the economics of the game have to factor in to draft capital allocation. Use early picks on the most expensive positions. Every year, until you are good enough not to do that.
That said the Giants haven't drafted a true LB/non "edge" type in RD1 I think since Banks.
Again, Banks was an edge.
I believe it goes all the way back to Jim Files in 1970.
I'm not old enough to have ever seen Files play, but from what little I could gather, looks like the profile of an inside bruiser from that era...I mean, it was barely the Super Bowl era when Files was drafted, and that's how long ago it's been since the Giants drafted a round 1 interior or middle linebacker.
Brad Van Pelt was also a little before my time but I believe he was also an edge, and 2nd round pick in '73.
Pepper Johnson in '86 might be the highest drafted non-edge LBer since Flint, in round 2. He worked out pretty darn good.
Some of these things are meaningless distinctions. Landon Collins was a safety that did a lot of things interior linebackers are asked to do, for example.
Didn't the Giants try a failed experiment with 1st round pick Mathias Kiwanuka at MLB for a spell? Or am I thinking of Clint Sintim?
Look, I'd love for us to grabe at say #24 a rookie WR who has a big year going 85-1250 - 10 for us and showcasing #1 WR traits throughout. It would fill a big hole and need.
But a rookie stud at LB, OG, TE, CB would all fill needs as well.
Drew Sanders is having a monster year!
Really. I get drafting based on “need” is supposedly a no, no but things being even somewhat equal the Giants take a WR if there is one that’s reasonable.
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Smith-Nijba and Hyatt WR’s selected after Sanders
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
No one said automatically. What was said is if there is a reasonable player available skill wise that should be a priority. GMs do that all the time.
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Exactly
Giants have so many needs. WR is at the top of the list for sure, but the same argument could be made for so many other positions on the Giants
In no specific order:
QB
WR
G/C
RB (if Barkley leaves)
CB
MLB
OLB (if the regime isn't sold on Azeez
DE/DT Not quite sure how Martindale's scheme plays a part in this need, but Dex and LW are the only reliable "hands on the ground" defensive players we have
It would not shock me if any of those positions listed above are our first round pick.
We are NOT one piece away.
He has the Giants selecting WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba (Ohio State) at #16, which means he has the Giants out of the playoffs. This weekend may determine how accurate that forecast is.
Link - ( New Window )
Dude has had a hamstring injury that his lingered for almost this entire season.
Can you imagine if NYG drafts a WR with a history of soft-tissue leg injuries? BBI might explode
Dude has had a hamstring injury that his lingered for almost this entire season.
Can you imagine if NYG drafts a WR with a history of soft-tissue leg injuries? BBI WILL explode
You had some incorrect statements. I fixed that for you.
I also can see JS trying to trade down his round 1 pick and start to accumulate picks for 2024. How he sees the QB position will be a big incentive to do or not.
It’s also a hole that can be filled by a pretty reasonably priced FA.
Our LB corps is arguably worse than the WR unit. It needs an infusion of talent badly. This is a very defensible pick.
Quote:
Find it hard to believe they would pass up two good ones mocked shortly after to take a LB.
Our LB corps is arguably worse than the WR unit. It needs an infusion of talent badly. This is a very defensible pick.
Isn’t this the same logic DG used in the Barkley pick. Not thought of positional value.
Quote:
In comment 15927006 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
Find it hard to believe they would pass up two good ones mocked shortly after to take a LB.
Our LB corps is arguably worse than the WR unit. It needs an infusion of talent badly. This is a very defensible pick.
Isn’t this the same logic DG used in the Barkley pick. Not thought of positional value.
24th pick v 2nd pick. Not even in the same stratosphere. You don’t think any LB is worth a 1st rd pick?
They have so many needs, it's really BPA. It always is, but this year, the first rounder could literally be ANY position other than RB and QB, and it would fill a need.
Quote:
In comment 15927050 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15927006 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
Find it hard to believe they would pass up two good ones mocked shortly after to take a LB.
Our LB corps is arguably worse than the WR unit. It needs an infusion of talent badly. This is a very defensible pick.
Isn’t this the same logic DG used in the Barkley pick. Not thought of positional value.
24th pick v 2nd pick. Not even in the same stratosphere. You don’t think any LB is worth a 1st rd pick?
Not with similar talent available at a position (WR) of equal if not greater need with inarguably higher positional value. No.
BPA is a myth.
Quote:
In comment 15927006 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
Find it hard to believe they would pass up two good ones mocked shortly after to take a LB.
Our LB corps is arguably worse than the WR unit. It needs an infusion of talent badly. This is a very defensible pick.
Isn’t this the same logic DG used in the Barkley pick. Not thought of positional value.
I think Barkley was actually BPA, the other choice was Darnold. Section, agreed, Im fine with LB #1, in fact BUF did that with Edmunds so there is history there as well that Schoen was a part of.
I mean, we could say the same at LB. Beavers? Mcfadden? We are penciling those two in? Just like you can find LBs on day 2 and 3 you can find WRs. We took Wandale when we could have taken Pickens or Pierce. Both are HUGE holes for the Giants.
Quote:
Map your biggest need to your first round pick.
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Exactly
Giants have so many needs. WR is at the top of the list for sure, but the same argument could be made for so many other positions on the Giants
In no specific order:
QB
WR
G/C
RB (if Barkley leaves)
CB
MLB
OLB (if the regime isn't sold on Azeez
DE/DT Not quite sure how Martindale's scheme plays a part in this need, but Dex and LW are the only reliable "hands on the ground" defensive players we have
It would not shock me if any of those positions listed above are our first round pick.
We are NOT one piece away.
We need talent all over
If Lb is warranted and 2 WRs over the next 3 rds ( plus a vet wr3/4 who desont break bank), I would do it
At wr3/4 in nfl is basically a slayton type. Maybe bring him back
I would give SS a chance on a 1 yr prove it deal. Can’t count on him but maybe the guy gets some luck for a yr. He would be a solid 3/4 at this point too
New regime, new scheme. You can't overlay decisions prior to this year in determining how this staff will draft
Here are 2 names to keep on eye on for Day Two:
Chris Jones-now at Purdue but formerly at Iowa and Buffalo
Xavier Hutchinson- not much recognition out of Iowa State
Both have already accepted invites to the Senior Bowl, when fans will become much more familiar with the skillset of each.
Isn’t Thibs a LBer? Yea, an ER, but essentially an OLB.
Quote:
In comment 15927011 David B. said:
Quote:
Map your biggest need to your first round pick.
Unless you're a national media draftnick doing mock drafts.
Exactly
Giants have so many needs. WR is at the top of the list for sure, but the same argument could be made for so many other positions on the Giants
In no specific order:
QB
WR
G/C
RB (if Barkley leaves)
CB
MLB
OLB (if the regime isn't sold on Azeez
DE/DT Not quite sure how Martindale's scheme plays a part in this need, but Dex and LW are the only reliable "hands on the ground" defensive players we have
It would not shock me if any of those positions listed above are our first round pick.
We are NOT one piece away.
The Giants don't have a need for a qb, they have a very good young qb, they have way too many holes to fill to be looking for a qb.
It’s a huge stretch to call Tyrod Taylor “very good” or “young”…
Here are 2 names to keep on eye on for Day Two:
Chris Jones-now at Purdue but formerly at Iowa and Buffalo
Xavier Hutchinson- not much recognition out of Iowa State
Both have already accepted invites to the Senior Bowl, when fans will become much more familiar with the skillset of each.
Charlie Jones?
Quote:
but you can make a case that ILB is the biggest hole on the team.
It’s also a hole that can be filled by a pretty reasonably priced FA.
In theory sure, but only if the FA chooses us over another team.
If one doesn't, I can see it addressed in the draft. I think Schoen has the luxury/misfortune of being able to choose from almost every position because they all need upgrading.
The Giants don't have a need for a qb, they have a very good young qb, they have way too many holes to fill to be looking for a qb.
The young QB they have is not under contract next year, and it's not a guarantee that will change.
The bigger thing I see, and as bad as our WR room looks, I doubt value will come close to matching need there. ILB however is just as a massive need and if we are picking late 20s you start to worry less about positional value. People here acting like this isn’t a HUGE hole. We absolutely stink against the run with guys like Dexy, LW, Jihad Ward, and to a lesser extent Thibs up front….that’s how bad those guys are.
Sorry-Typo
I was going to say it's as big a need as WR right now. It might even be bigger.
Ehh you can argue Thibs is a LBer
I would think you can get the LB via cheaper means in vet FA compared to the equally as talented WR in FA. All things being equal in terms of player's talent and age, LB might be a little cheaper...but then you have to get him.
Quote:
Every year these pundits mock LBs to the Giants in the first round. Every year. Without fail. But the last time the Giants selected a LB in the firs round was Carl Banks in 1983!
Ehh you can argue Thibs is a LBer
I think we're talking about non-edge linebackers. Thibs is a pass rushing edge, as was Banks.
New regime, anything can happen, but I don't see from what we know of Schoen's background that ILB will be a priority. The Beane philosophy was trenches, particularly DL, and corners. They did draft Tremaine Edmunds in the 1st round in the same draft they moved up for Josh Allen.
I could see CB, QB, or DL as the most likely positions of focus in the first round. I think with receivers, IOL in rounds 2-4.
I also think the economics of the game have to factor in to draft capital allocation. Use early picks on the most expensive positions. Every year, until you are good enough not to do that.
That said the Giants haven't drafted a true LB/non "edge" type in RD1 I think since Banks.
Oversimplification, but FA comes first, then you draft.
I also think the economics of the game have to factor in to draft capital allocation. Use early picks on the most expensive positions. Every year, until you are good enough not to do that.
That said the Giants haven't drafted a true LB/non "edge" type in RD1 I think since Banks.
Again, Banks was an edge.
I believe it goes all the way back to Jim Files in 1970.
I'm not old enough to have ever seen Files play, but from what little I could gather, looks like the profile of an inside bruiser from that era...I mean, it was barely the Super Bowl era when Files was drafted, and that's how long ago it's been since the Giants drafted a round 1 interior or middle linebacker.
Brad Van Pelt was also a little before my time but I believe he was also an edge, and 2nd round pick in '73.
Pepper Johnson in '86 might be the highest drafted non-edge LBer since Flint, in round 2. He worked out pretty darn good.
Some of these things are meaningless distinctions. Landon Collins was a safety that did a lot of things interior linebackers are asked to do, for example.
Didn't the Giants try a failed experiment with 1st round pick Mathias Kiwanuka at MLB for a spell? Or am I thinking of Clint Sintim?
But a rookie stud at LB, OG, TE, CB would all fill needs as well.