NFT: Knicks du jour

but Rj's game last night is what hr should be for right now, he strugglez when he takes so many shots and controls the ball right now..

Take a step back, play off Randle and Brunson and take what the defense is giving you, eventually the defense will key on Randle and Brunson and you should have more open looks..

Defend, rebound, move the ball and get out in transition, thats where you need to live for right now

He really hasn't added much to his offensive game. No low-post moves to speak of, no jump shot... it's put-backs and alley-oops or nothing. He's better than his draft position but IMO not yet as good as his contract.

In comment 15927473 nygiants16 said:

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but Rj's game last night is what hr should be for right now, he strugglez when he takes so many shots and controls the ball right now.. Take a step back, play off Randle and Brunson and take what the defense is giving you, eventually the defense will key on Randle and Brunson and you should have more open looks.. Defend, rebound, move the ball and get out in transition, thats where you need to live for right now

totally agree-I am not sure what happened with his progression,maybe its poor coaching,but you are 100% correct.His shot selection is terrible.He does Defend and Rebound,tho his D is not where it was last year...Injury???
But overall his efficiency needs to improve

This team is going no where until Thibs is fired and Randle is traded. That lazy fuck plays zero defense and is a 3 point chucker

Not that we're making more than one pick anyway (either they won't convey or we'll trade them), but I glanced at Tankathon for the first time.

In comment 15927488 81_Great_Dane said:

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He really hasn't added much to his offensive game. No low-post moves to speak of, no jump shot... it's put-backs and alley-oops or nothing. He's better than his draft position but IMO not yet as good as his contract.

Yep,and to make matters worse,he has taken to twitter to air his grievances about his lack of inclusion in the Offense

but this guycompares RJB stats from last season through 19 games to this season. He is always a slow starter but so far each season has gotten hot and finished with solid numbers. I don't see why would should expect him to do the same this season.


Knicks Fan TV 🏀🎥📺🏁
@KnicksFanTv
Is it simply just another slow start for RJ Barrett? 🤔 #Knicks


I can't post the graphic but these were the #'s through 19 games.

Last season MPG - 32.5
This season MPG - 34.6

Last season PPG - 14.5
This season PPG - 18.4

Last season RPG - 5.9
This season RPG - 5.4

Last season APG - 2.3
This season APG - 3.0

Last season TPG - 1.8
This season TPG - 2.3

Last season FG% - 38.8
This season FG% - 39.4

Last season FT% - 71.7
This season FT% - 76.5

Last season 3PT% - 32%
This season 3PT% - 26.4

.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15927583 steve in ky said:

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. Link - ( New Window )

Thanks for the link dude,actually his FG % overall is actually higher than I thought...but 26% from 3 maaaannn why keep shooting them?
He stands there at the 3pt line waitin to get the pass then shoots.....he needs to learn to drive and either dish or take a 10 footer

In comment 15927582 steve in ky said:

Quote:

but this guycompares RJB stats from last season through 19 games to this season. He is always a slow starter but so far each season has gotten hot and finished with solid numbers. I don't see why would should expect him to do the same this season. Knicks Fan TV 🏀🎥📺🏁 @KnicksFanTv Is it simply just another slow start for RJ Barrett? 🤔 #Knicks I can't post the graphic but these were the #'s through 19 games. Last season MPG - 32.5 This season MPG - 34.6 Last season PPG - 14.5 This season PPG - 18.4 Last season RPG - 5.9 This season RPG - 5.4 Last season APG - 2.3 This season APG - 3.0 Last season TPG - 1.8 This season TPG - 2.3 Last season FG% - 38.8 This season FG% - 39.4 Last season FT% - 71.7 This season FT% - 76.5 Last season 3PT% - 32% This season 3PT% - 26.4

You can look at his scoring numbers and say yeah Rj had a good year last year but his effeciency is absolutely horrific, he shot more last year thats why he got better..

Its what will hold Rj back, he is shooting 40% from the field, his Efg% is 44%..

he is averaging 18 ppg on 16 shots..

Id rather him score 15 on 10 shots than 20 on 17 shots..

In comment 15927600 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927582 steve in ky said: Quote: but this guycompares RJB stats from last season through 19 games to this season. He is always a slow starter but so far each season has gotten hot and finished with solid numbers. I don't see why would should expect him to do the same this season. Knicks Fan TV 🏀🎥📺🏁 @KnicksFanTv Is it simply just another slow start for RJ Barrett? 🤔 #Knicks I can't post the graphic but these were the #'s through 19 games. Last season MPG - 32.5 This season MPG - 34.6 Last season PPG - 14.5 This season PPG - 18.4 Last season RPG - 5.9 This season RPG - 5.4 Last season APG - 2.3 This season APG - 3.0 Last season TPG - 1.8 This season TPG - 2.3 Last season FG% - 38.8 This season FG% - 39.4 Last season FT% - 71.7 This season FT% - 76.5 Last season 3PT% - 32% This season 3PT% - 26.4 You can look at his scoring numbers and say yeah Rj had a good year last year but his effeciency is absolutely horrific, he shot more last year thats why he got better.. Its what will hold Rj back, he is shooting 40% from the field, his Efg% is 44%.. he is averaging 18 ppg on 16 shots.. Id rather him score 15 on 10 shots than 20 on 17 shots..

His efficiency is awful..but this is fixable
Coaching and developing a mid range game will help
alottttt

You can point any stats or blame coaching but I have no idea how anyone has watched him the past few seasons could feel good about him long term. If you want him to take a step back, then what do you have? An overpaid player who really doesn’t excel in one area.

He has been given every opportunity and has been a major disappointment borderline bust. I honestly think he hurts than helps in most games- especially against good teams.

RJ progress? LOL. Thibs is likely the worst coach in the league for young players. That’s why it never made sense to bring him to the Knicks who were clearly rebuilding. This team is stuck in purgatory and Thibs is the perfect coach to coast through it and keep them there. He brings nothing. And we suck defensively, which is supposed to be his thing.

I like what I am seeing so far....he is taking high %age shots so far

can just do whatever he wants on the court but breathe on him and its a foul

have a logical conversation with you. He’s basically at or below his career norms right now and has looked pretty bad. So if you like what you are seeing, then I have to believe you are just being stubborn in your view.

I’ve always been a fan of RJ and I’m hopeful that he’ll grow as a player…but the start to this year absolutely isn’t showing me that.

In comment 15927631 CooperDash said:

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have a logical conversation with you. He’s basically at or below his career norms right now and has looked pretty bad. So if you like what you are seeing, then I have to believe you are just being stubborn in your view. I’ve always been a fan of RJ and I’m hopeful that he’ll grow as a player…but the start to this year absolutely isn’t showing me that.

i think he was talking about the game currently being played

In comment 15927633 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927631 CooperDash said: Quote: have a logical conversation with you. He’s basically at or below his career norms right now and has looked pretty bad. So if you like what you are seeing, then I have to believe you are just being stubborn in your view. I’ve always been a fan of RJ and I’m hopeful that he’ll grow as a player…but the start to this year absolutely isn’t showing me that. i think he was talking about the game currently being played

Fair enough…my bad, then.

Yes tonight...
He's been riding the struggle bus all yeqr so far..
Elbow jumpers rather than 3s...that's his ticket off the bus

In comment 15927634 CooperDash said:

Quote:

In comment 15927633 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15927631 CooperDash said: Quote: have a logical conversation with you. He’s basically at or below his career norms right now and has looked pretty bad. So if you like what you are seeing, then I have to believe you are just being stubborn in your view. I’ve always been a fan of RJ and I’m hopeful that he’ll grow as a player…but the start to this year absolutely isn’t showing me that. i think he was talking about the game currently being played Fair enough…my bad, then.

No worries dude

Finally woke up...

he is a horrible defender

In comment 15927639 nygiants16 said:

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he is a horrible defender

He really is awful
Cannot protect the rim...
I thought he would bring more offensively but he hasnt..
Thibs seems to playing him not Sims...

This first half is why..

Knicks down 2 with Brunson and Randle not shooting well

In comment 15927657 nygiants16 said:

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Knicks down 2 with Brunson and Randle not shooting well

yesss,and did you notice his shot selection?
Much much better....

I fear Bucks will blitz us to start 3rd..much better team.

but my god the refs let him get away with anything he wants, he travels constantly, shoves people out of the way and never gets called

competing their asses off.

.

is lower his shoulder and he will get a foul call

is why we say Rj has low IQ, why are you attacking their best defender? swing the ball and let Brunson attack Carter..

I get you are scoring well tonight but not against Jrue Hokiday

In comment 15927683 nygiants16 said:

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is lower his shoulder and he will get a foul call

Yup..then he will take 25 seconds to take a free throw

In comment 15927684 nygiants16 said:

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is why we say Rj has low IQ, why are you attacking their best defender? swing the ball and let Brunson attack Carter.. I get you are scoring well tonight but not against Jrue Hokiday

Against probably the best perimeter defender in the sport. Doesn’t get one pass in on the possession. Has to be smarter there

With a turnover then walked back

.

go under the screen, than you are mad you gave up the 3 you chuck up a 3

and of course he hits it. Does our player hit the clutch three....never, ever, never!!!!!! So annoying

In comment 15927697 nygiants16 said:

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go under the screen, than you are mad you gave up the 3 you chuck up a 3

Such a killer sequence. Awful shot selection and you can’t go under that pick under any circumstances. Bullshit man.

.

but he just has no BBiq, his go to at the end of games is constantly iso, it doesnt work man at the end of games

are the reason the Knicks were in a dogfight, if Brunson has a normal effecient game Knicks probably win this with ease..

I want to see this same defensive effort though the rest of the season and the Knicks will be fine

Usually after a tough loss, i will text my buddy and say to him please tell me you heard the Knicks are trying to improve.

Its usually coming from another team, so again take FWIW..

Knicks are shopping Randle, they have called multiple teams to see what level of interest they have.

Knicks and Suns have had multiple talks about Crowder but the Suns do not want Fournier.

Speaking of Fournier some teams want 2 of the Knicks protected 1sts to take Fournier.

Around the league they think Thibs is safe until at least the end of the year unless the wheels fall off and players start complaining.

Zach Lavine or Demar Derozan are the 2 big names being thrown out as a surprise trade candidate at the deadline

In comment 15927799 nygiants16 said:

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Usually after a tough loss, i will text my buddy and say to him please tell me you heard the Knicks are trying to improve. Its usually coming from another team, so again take FWIW.. Knicks are shopping Randle, they have called multiple teams to see what level of interest they have. Knicks and Suns have had multiple talks about Crowder but the Suns do not want Fournier. Speaking of Fournier some teams want 2 of the Knicks protected 1sts to take Fournier. Around the league they think Thibs is safe until at least the end of the year unless the wheels fall off and players start complaining. Zach Lavine or Demar Derozan are the 2 big names being thrown out as a surprise trade candidate at the deadline

Sign me up for LaVine. I had thrown his name out there on a thread last week, but didn't think he was actually available. Just makes sense based on where the Bulls are. It feels like he has been around forever, but is still only 27 years old. He would be a nice get after missing out on Mitchell.

As for Fournier, there isn't really any point in attaching assets to get rid of him. The Knicks aren't going to be able to do anything in free agency with or without him, he's a free agent after next season. Either ride it out with him glued to the bench or try to move him as an expiring next year.

In comment 15927799 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Usually after a tough loss, i will text my buddy and say to him please tell me you heard the Knicks are trying to improve. Its usually coming from another team, so again take FWIW.. Knicks are shopping Randle, they have called multiple teams to see what level of interest they have. If we trade Randle,just remember we lose 20/9/5,so that needs to come back into the building.Obi clearly is not ready to replace that.Granted Randle's D can lack from time time,but he is still our best player.In terms of Fournier,I forget how long his contract is,but I beleive its expiring...so why would we trade away those picks,unless there is an immediate use for his salary??? Knicks and Suns have had multiple talks about Crowder but the Suns do not want Fournier. Speaking of Fournier some teams want 2 of the Knicks protected 1sts to take Fournier. Around the league they think Thibs is safe until at least the end of the year unless the wheels fall off and players start complaining. Zach Lavine or Demar Derozan are the 2 big names being thrown out as a surprise trade candidate at the deadline

Being a closer in this league,but he had a monster game last night...and if Brunson was healthy to guide us down the stretch that game was winnable.
RJ showed me he can improve his shot selection...and if he learns to make those floaters near the rim...he can be a 22 pt a game guy.When healthy he is a shut down defender,who gets 4 rebounds a game....
He ducks after writing this....

In comment 15927837 AG5686 said:

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Being a closer in this league,but he had a monster game last night...and if Brunson was healthy to guide us down the stretch that game was winnable. RJ showed me he can improve his shot selection...and if he learns to make those floaters near the rim...he can be a 22 pt a game guy.When healthy he is a shut down defender,who gets 4 rebounds a game.... He ducks after writing this....

To be fair, Brunson had the ball in his hands the last 2 home games with a chance to be the hero and missed both times so lets not put it all on Barrett

In comment 15927799 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Usually after a tough loss, i will text my buddy and say to him please tell me you heard the Knicks are trying to improve. Its usually coming from another team, so again take FWIW.. Knicks are shopping Randle, they have called multiple teams to see what level of interest they have. Knicks and Suns have had multiple talks about Crowder but the Suns do not want Fournier. Speaking of Fournier some teams want 2 of the Knicks protected 1sts to take Fournier. Around the league they think Thibs is safe until at least the end of the year unless the wheels fall off and players start complaining. Zach Lavine or Demar Derozan are the 2 big names being thrown out as a surprise trade candidate at the deadline

No reason to move Fournier if you have to attach his picks. I actually think he can be useful off the bench and seems like he won't cause any problems. Could also use his salary in a trade at some point.

What teams would be interested in Randle? He certainly help the team in the right situation but I think its going to be hard to find.

Lavine would be good here and fun as hell to watch. I wonder what the ask/cost would be...

This roster desperately needs a shakeup though.

You've already ripped the Band-Aid off and pulled him from the rotation, and he's been a good teammate so far to his credit - at this point it's best to use him this summer as an expiring contract unless a significant trade materializes at the deadline.

starter at shooting guard. There's no need for LaVine. Grimes may not turn out to be as good as LaVine offensively, but he'll be much better defensively and will be an effective scorer.

Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff.

Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team

In comment 15927904 bceagle05 said:

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You've already ripped the Band-Aid off and pulled him from the rotation, and he's been a good teammate so far to his credit - at this point it's best to use him this summer as an expiring contract unless a significant trade materializes at the deadline.

I was at the Portland game, sitting on the chase bridge on the Knicks side, he engages with every player and coach, he is not sitting at the end of the bench sulking..

In comment 15927910 Ira said:

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starter at shooting guard. There's no need for LaVine. Grimes may not turn out to be as good as LaVine offensively, but he'll be much better defensively and will be an effective scorer.

I know we are all brainwashed by Thibs but you can play Lavine and Grimes together

In comment 15927911 Knickstape said:

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Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team

what are you referring to may I ask?
I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...

In comment 15927910 Ira said:

Quote:

starter at shooting guard. There's no need for LaVine. Grimes may not turn out to be as good as LaVine offensively, but he'll be much better defensively and will be an effective scorer.

Geez man people really need to pump the brakes on Grimes. I hope he turns out to be a good player but he is far from that right now. There's no reason to drastically alter your team building around him. It was insane to deem him untouchbale this summer and honestly still is.

Lavine is an all star....

In comment 15927918 AG5686 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927911 Knickstape said: Quote: Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team what are you referring to may I ask? I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...

From begley
"Internally at MSG, there is heightened scrutiny on the club’s game-by-game performance. ... and it’s not solely focused on Thibodeau."

In comment 15927918 AG5686 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927911 Knickstape said: Quote: Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...

Why not? So we can trade more lottery picks to cover up our mistakes?

In comment 15927942 Knickstape said:

Quote:

In comment 15927918 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927911 Knickstape said: Quote: Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team what are you referring to may I ask? I am not a fan of tearing this FO up... From begley "Internally at MSG, there is heightened scrutiny on the club’s game-by-game performance. ... and it’s not solely focused on Thibodeau."

As there should be. Leon Rose is a charlatan.

In comment 15927918 AG5686 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927911 Knickstape said: Quote: Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team what are you referring to may I ask? I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...

You would honestly be upset if they dumped this front office for an experienced GM/ President? Maybe someone who has actually built a good nba team before? I know that's a crazy concept for the Knicks because Walsh was the last hire that actually had that experience...which is pretty wild to think about.

Vegas has our win total at 38,we are on or above that pace now.Most of Rose's FA moves have been fairly benign...
Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital.
Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO

In comment 15927911 Knickstape said:

Quote:

Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team

Oh goodie - Dolan’s engaged. That always leads to good things.

and the one win was vs. Pistons.

Not a lot of happy moments courtside for Jimmy D.

Three home games in a row coming up: Mavs, Cavs and Hawks, no softies.

They're treading water as a mediocre to bad team

In comment 15927955 AG5686 said:

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Vegas has our win total at 38,we are on or above that pace now.Most of Rose's FA moves have been fairly benign... Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital. Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO

lol. WTF is this nonsense? What else do we want? Maybe a viable contender? It's only been 3 offseasons comprised of significant cap space and multiple lottery picks. At what point are we allowed to be good?

where if they are moved you can at least see a direction and the team would be led by the younger drafted players and Brunson..

I really dont think they are far off but its painfully obvious right now they should of made the deal for Mitchell

os does Rose have the balls to make a big move?

Vegas had the Knicks at a whopping 38 wins so that must mean Rose is doing just great!

Hint: After 3 years of accumulating cap space and draft picks, Vegas still only putting the Knicks at 38 wins is NOT a good thing…

In comment 15927955 AG5686 said:

Quote:

Vegas has our win total at 38,we are on or above that pace now.Most of Rose's FA moves have been fairly benign... Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital. Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO

The only two good moves Rose made were signing Brunson (former client, right?) and trading for Reddish. Otherwise, he's been awful. His trades, aside from the Cam one, have been nonsensical (with these ridiculous protections). He signed Kemba and Noel only to trade them away along with our lottery pick. It looks the same thing will happen with Fournier. Extending Barrett? Awful. Mitchell trade falling through. Robinson extension? Remains to be seen. Hartenstein sucks.

Grimes and Sims look fine, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to Rose.

EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.

In comment 15927983 Enzo said:

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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.

I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
Mitchell would have been a mistake
Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit.
Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving?
Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys??
Ill take the later thank you

In comment 15927955 AG5686 said:

Quote:

Vegas has our win total at 38,we are on or above that pace now.Most of Rose's FA moves have been fairly benign... Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital. Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO

Is this a joke? Man Knicks have set the bar low. It's like when Phil Jackson was praised for not trading any 1st round picks...

What more do you want? How about building a good team? How about nailing some good free agent signings or trades?

Brunson was a really good signing. But unless there's another player out there who's his godson, his son is his agent and the players father gets hired to the coaching staff- how is that remotely replicated?

In comment 15927911 Knickstape said:

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Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff. Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team

What is it about dolan's record that makes you hope he will hire the right people to "properly build a team"?

In comment 15927989 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 15927955 AG5686 said: Quote: Vegas has our win total at 38,we are on or above that pace now.Most of Rose's FA moves have been fairly benign... Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital. Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO Is this a joke? Man Knicks have set the bar low. It's like when Phil Jackson was praised for not trading any 1st round picks... What more do you want? How about building a good team? How about nailing some good free agent signings or trades? Brunson was a really good signing. But unless there's another player out there who's his godson, his son is his agent and the players father gets hired to the coaching staff- how is that remotely replicated?

we argue about Leon mainly because i want to give him the benefit of the doubt but at this point he needs to shit or get off the pot, its time to make the bjg move and live with it..

You got Brunson, now add someone next to him, keep as much of the youth as possible and roll..

but i think he knows once he makes the big move he is on the clock and he hesitates..

In comment 15927986 AG5686 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...

We traded our lottery pick to get Kemba off the team. I'd say that has the potential to be a disaster. Imagine if the player we could've taken ends up as Donovan Mitchell or SGA or someone like that.

In comment 15927986 AG5686 said:

Quote:

In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you

I'm talking about the subsequent contracts for Burks/Noel/Rose.
"Seemed great at the time" and saying none of them are long-term is setting the bar pretty low.

In comment 15928014 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 15927986 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... We traded our lottery pick to get Kemba off the team. I'd say that has the potential to be a disaster. Imagine if the player we could've taken ends up as Donovan Mitchell or SGA or someone like that.

They didnt trade their lottery pick to get Kemba off the team..

they traded their lottery pick for 4 future 1sts and then used one of the future firsts that likely wont convey and a bunch of 2nds to get off Kemba

..

They land one free agent who has mega family ties, and they almost didn’t even land him if the mavs had just given Brunson the contract he wanted 4/54 before last season started.

Other than that a ton of garbage garbage moves
Toppin over haliburton
Extend Randle
Sign Fournier
Sign kemba
Extend Noel
Extend burks
Extend rj - had this year to watch and make that decision

You want to be happy about quickley they missed on maxey who was the original target and Desmond bane drafted a few picks after

Absolutely Botched the Donovan mitchell trade


Some of you want to be excited over some extremely extremely heavily protected 1sts that they acquired. But here’s the thing. Noone in the league values those picks as you saw with the
MItchell trade. And no one is gonna trade down for our 3/4 late 1sts we have and give up a top 7 lotto pick.
Add the fact that everyone in the league knows this front office isn’t trying to draft and develop just by seeing the way they operate. So even if some of these picks convert. They’ll just be used to dump more salary of the awful contracts this regime handed out

Its a sideways maneuver. They really don't need scoring, and no one is hiring Zach LaVine because he's a defensive stopper.

In comment 15928039 Knickstape said:

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They land one free agent who has mega family ties, and they almost didn’t even land him if the mavs had just given Brunson the contract he wanted 4/54 before last season started. Other than that a ton of garbage garbage moves Toppin over haliburton Extend Randle Sign Fournier Sign kemba Extend Noel Extend burks Extend rj - had this year to watch and make that decision You want to be happy about quickley they missed on maxey who was the original target and Desmond bane drafted a few picks after Absolutely Botched the Donovan mitchell trade Some of you want to be excited over some extremely extremely heavily protected 1sts that they acquired. But here’s the thing. Noone in the league values those picks as you saw with the MItchell trade. And no one is gonna trade down for our 3/4 late 1sts we have and give up a top 7 lotto pick. Add the fact that everyone in the league knows this front office isn’t trying to draft and develop just by seeing the way they operate. So even if some of these picks convert. They’ll just be used to dump more salary of the awful contracts this regime handed out

They got Brunson, so you cant say they almost didnt get them and use it as a strike against him..

We have no idea if Toppin over Haliburton was a bad decision because Toppin is not given the minutes by Thibs..hipefully soon..

you had to extend Randle when they did, he was coming off an all nba season and was willing to sign for a 100 million discount..It was no brianer at the time..

Heavily protected? right now the Wizards pick is going to convey this year, Dallas pick is in the lottery at current moment and the other is only top 5 protected from Milwaukee..

They arent that protected..

The Quickley, Grimes and Sims picks look like very good picks..

They missed on Kemba, Fournier, Burks and Noel resigns, but really did it hurt them that much?

you will get no argument but no one bats 100% in the draft or free agency..

They don't seem like they have a plan. For 2+ years it seemed like the plan was to accumulate assets to trade for a star. They kicked the can down the road with draft picks, traded back repeatedly, and did whatever they could to tread water until a star became available. That's all well and good, but you have to actually pull the trigger when a star does come available. They severely overplayed their hand with Mitchell and the Jazz, and are now left with a mediocre team that has no path to get better other than hoping another star tries to get traded.

They've also shown mixed signals when it comes to how they value draft picks. On the one hand they traded a pick for Reddish because they thought having the player is more valuable than the unknown of a protected pick. Then this year instead of drafting Duren, Griffin, or whoever, they kicked the can down the road because now suddenly its better to have protected picks again? On top of that, they were rumored to have been hesitant to include Quickley in Mitchell talks, but now we hear they want to trade him for a first? They just seem all over the place.

They have been okay in the draft, but have missed on some big time players. Look, we all like Toppin and Quickley, but the obvious picks there were Haliburton and Bane. Not just obvious in retrospect, but I remember multiple posters talking both of those guys up before the draft.

In comment 15928048 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15928039 Knickstape said: Quote: They land one free agent who has mega family ties, and they almost didn’t even land him if the mavs had just given Brunson the contract he wanted 4/54 before last season started. Other than that a ton of garbage garbage moves Toppin over haliburton Extend Randle Sign Fournier Sign kemba Extend Noel Extend burks Extend rj - had this year to watch and make that decision You want to be happy about quickley they missed on maxey who was the original target and Desmond bane drafted a few picks after Absolutely Botched the Donovan mitchell trade Some of you want to be excited over some extremely extremely heavily protected 1sts that they acquired. But here’s the thing. Noone in the league values those picks as you saw with the MItchell trade. And no one is gonna trade down for our 3/4 late 1sts we have and give up a top 7 lotto pick. Add the fact that everyone in the league knows this front office isn’t trying to draft and develop just by seeing the way they operate. So even if some of these picks convert. They’ll just be used to dump more salary of the awful contracts this regime handed out They got Brunson, so you cant say they almost didnt get them and use it as a strike against him.. We have no idea if Toppin over Haliburton was a bad decision because Toppin is not given the minutes by Thibs..hipefully soon.. you had to extend Randle when they did, he was coming off an all nba season and was willing to sign for a 100 million discount..It was no brianer at the time.. Heavily protected? right now the Wizards pick is going to convey this year, Dallas pick is in the lottery at current moment and the other is only top 5 protected from Milwaukee.. They arent that protected.. The Quickley, Grimes and Sims picks look like very good picks.. They missed on Kemba, Fournier, Burks and Noel resigns, but really did it hurt them that much?

Fine retract the Brunson part.
The toppin one is a problem because you don’t draft someone then immediately resign the player in front of him. That’s poor asset management.
Especially knowing we needed a point guard at the time. Haliburton fit every single aspect of what the Knicks needed. More so than toppin

2nd. Julius had been in the league for 6 years or more when he had that crazy Covid season. But instead of proceeding with caution we threw every season he had before that fluke season and said. Oh we definitely gotta re sign this guy. It’s a bargain. Once again. Poor asset management.

My argument with the picks is the Knicks don’t plan on making 3 picks in this draft. And no team wants to trade down from top5-7 in lottery for late 16-24 range picks. It’s not like the nfl. How often do trades like that happen.

Grimes I love that pick. But quickley I am not a fan of and like I said. They were rumored to be heavily in on maxey and missed on that

Sims is a great pick for the spot he went. But again. We go and sign hartenstein who isn’t a fit in thibs scheme and then devout big money to Mitch.
More poor asset management imo.

This roster has been constructed so poorly and that falls on management

to either get a star or let the young guys get the bulk of the minutes, not going tk argue that point..

But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair

In comment 15928076 nygiants16 said:

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to either get a star or let the young guys get the bulk of the minutes, not going tk argue that point.. But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair

So If you’re going letter grade for this front office where do they land

The problem is Thibs. The game has passed him by

Until we get a different coach that is more adaptable to the changing times in the NBA we will continue to lose

all of this was caused by pandemic Julius Randle and making the 4 seed. The FO incorrectly believed that this team could compete if it added to the pieces it already had.

Brunson has been a great signing but look at the other deals.

Signed Noel and Burks, had to attach draft assets to them to unload them to sign Brunson.

Signed Fournier, is currently benched and did not significantly upgrade the roster from when they let go Bullock.

I know some people would argue with me, but the Hartenstein signing was completely unnecessary with Sims being a perfectly adequate backup center (and Obi trying to compete for minutes).

They make moves that they think are good in a vacuum without trying to construct a roster with a vision. If you looked at this team with the addition of Brunson, does it improve us beyond putting us just out of the lottery? I think that's the most damning thing. In this league you want to be winning or you want to have a high draft pick.

I think if you asked most of us, we would have said that this is a team that will hover around .500 before the season began. This is the exact spot you don't want to be as an NBA franchise and all the maneuvering that this FO has done has netted us some future draft capital that could end up being picks in the teens or 20s.

And now we watch a team that can beat up on the dregs of the league, but can't compete against teams that are above .500.

In comment 15928083 Knickstape said:

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In comment 15928076 nygiants16 said: Quote: to either get a star or let the young guys get the bulk of the minutes, not going tk argue that point.. But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair So If you’re going letter grade for this front office where do they land

c+

In comment 15928100 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15928083 Knickstape said: Quote: In comment 15928076 nygiants16 said: Quote: to either get a star or let the young guys get the bulk of the minutes, not going tk argue that point.. But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair So If you’re going letter grade for this front office where do they land c+

B
I give that based upon where we were when Rose took over (27wiins i think)
And where we are now...

til the deadline to fix the logjams and make the pieces fit better..

if they do that ill give them the offseason to find a star next to Brunson..

In comment 15928118 nygiants16 said:

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til the deadline to fix the logjams and make the pieces fit better.. if they do that ill give them the offseason to find a star next to Brunson..

Interestingly enough,the Donovan Mitchell trade would have fixed the logjam,but it also would have made our backcourt small and lacking in D.

has a brutal contract and has been nursing a bad knee with five years still left on the deal. That's a huge no. We are in a bad spot right now but we just have to wait until the off season to try and deal Randle, Fournier, Rose, Hartenstein and quite possible RJ. Hopefully Randle and RJ can build back their trade value. Until then, how about actually including Grimes in the offensive game plan.

just push me off already. Fuck it I'm jumping. Team aint going anywhere. Watch em win 4 in a row, i'll get pulled back in like everyone else then they lose 4 in a row. Same shit every year.

but that big trade is hard to pull off and find.

I don't think the front office has been abysmal but they haven't been memorable either.

The roster before Rose took over was brutal. To be fair he was afforded a bunch of picks and cap room, but the roster is better, even if uninspiring.

One move away...problem is nothing is there.

Team is just mediocre. Not good enough to beat the Bucks, but not bad enough to be on Detroit's level. & being in the middle tier in the NBA...absolute hell.

tonight at 9:30pm

In comment 15927986 AG5686 said:

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In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you

You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for?

And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake?

You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one.

Good use of all them fucking picks would be to trade up for a player you have convictions on.

In comment 15928417 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 15927986 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for? And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake? You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one.

i think brunson is close to one

In comment 15928424 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15928417 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: In comment 15927986 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for? And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake? You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one. i think brunson is close to one

Brunson is close to one...and if he can develop any semblance of some D he will be one...he plays a very physical style and seeks contact so I hope he doesn't become injury prone
He reminds me of Alan Iverson who was fearless around the rim

Dallas really needs to add someone to help Doncic, letting Brunson go is looking worse and worse

THJ had 26; Luka his usual 35. Nobody else did much of anything on offense and they gave up 131 to the Pistons in an OT game.

They've now lost 5 of 6 and sit at 10-11. That top 10 protected pick could come in just right in the high lottery.

Knicks get them next on Saturday at 12:30 at MSG. Need a home win.

In comment 15928464 nygiants16 said:

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Dallas really needs to add someone to help Doncic, letting Brunson go is looking worse and worse

Good thing we didn't tamper in order to get Brunson
Hahahahhhhaaaaa

In comment 15928417 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 15927986 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for? And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake? You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one.

I meant Duran with Kyrie as a package.
I would take Durant right now if we could get him...

Impressive just how average we’ve been.

In comment 15928464 nygiants16 said:

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Dallas really needs to add someone to help Doncic, letting Brunson go is looking worse and worse

Its pretty inexcusable they let him walk for nothing and botched the extension talks. He also fits so damn well next to Luka...Able to play off ball with him and take the lead when he's on the bench.

I wonder if theres a possible Randle trade with Dallas?

next to Luka this year and is providing exactly the same stats for the Mavs that Brunson did last year: 16 points, 5 assists, 39% from three in 31 minutes.

Dinwiddie happened to have an almost invisible offensive game last night against Detroit (2 points in 28 minutes, 6 assists) as Luka, THJ and Christian Wood carried the load.

Mavs have had some tough losses in their recent slump and did beat the Warriors for their most recent win. Knicks need to show up tomorrow.

but they have Luka so it covers up a lot..

They dont have a consistent 2nd scorer and playing alongside Luka you have to be good off the ball as well, Brunson was a great fit next to him..

They dont have enough wing defenders, Bullock and Finney-smith are good defenders but they are spot up shooters on the other end so when they are on the court Luka is doing everything.

They also play extremely small so teams can just get to the rim at will. They play Kleiba a lot at center and when he is on from 3 it can be an advantage but defensively they are horrid

In comment 15928651 shyster said:

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next to Luka this year and is providing exactly the same stats for the Mavs that Brunson did last year: 16 points, 5 assists, 39% from three in 31 minutes.

True, but they had Dinwiddie last year (and Timmy) in addition to Brunson, so now everyone’s moved up a spot in the pecking order.

In comment 15928684 bceagle05 said:

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True, but they had Dinwiddie last year (and Timmy) in addition to Brunson, so now everyone’s moved up a spot in the pecking order.

They had him after the deadline. And with Brunson gone he's playing a somewhat different role this year.

Christian Wood was a significant offseason pickup. Seventeen and eight, 40% from three, 26 minutes per game.

They got off to a good start, have hit a bad patch. I wish them the worst, since Knicks have their draft pick, but I wouldn't cry for them just yet, Argentina.

In comment 15928469 AG5686 said:

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In comment 15928417 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: In comment 15927986 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for? And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake? You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one. I meant Duran with Kyrie as a package. I would take Durant right now if we could get him...

Quote:

I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..

The 1 year deals were solid the resigning and running it back was the bad decision that caused the team to trade picks to dump those deals.
The 4th seed was the worse thing that happened to this team.
It cause them to sign Randle to big money and re-up all older role players to 2+ year contracts

In comment 15928707 shyster said:

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In comment 15928684 bceagle05 said: Quote: True, but they had Dinwiddie last year (and Timmy) in addition to Brunson, so now everyone’s moved up a spot in the pecking order. They had him after the deadline. And with Brunson gone he's playing a somewhat different role this year. Christian Wood was a significant offseason pickup. Seventeen and eight, 40% from three, 26 minutes per game. They got off to a good start, have hit a bad patch. I wish them the worst, since Knicks have their draft pick, but I wouldn't cry for them just yet, Argentina.

It's still an enormous mistake to let a borderline all star ( sorry I love Brunson) walk for nothing. Even if it would be to use him in a trade down the line.

When you have a generational talent like Luka, you do everything possible to surround him with the best players. Especially given Brunson's playoff record.

Correct me if I'm wrong but they are capped out anyway for a few years.

In comment 15928774 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 15928707 shyster said: Quote: In comment 15928684 bceagle05 said: Quote: True, but they had Dinwiddie last year (and Timmy) in addition to Brunson, so now everyone’s moved up a spot in the pecking order. They had him after the deadline. And with Brunson gone he's playing a somewhat different role this year. Christian Wood was a significant offseason pickup. Seventeen and eight, 40% from three, 26 minutes per game. They got off to a good start, have hit a bad patch. I wish them the worst, since Knicks have their draft pick, but I wouldn't cry for them just yet, Argentina. It's still an enormous mistake to let a borderline all star ( sorry I love Brunson) walk for nothing. Even if it would be to use him in a trade down the line. When you have a generational talent like Luka, you do everything possible to surround him with the best players. Especially given Brunson's playoff record. Correct me if I'm wrong but they are capped out anyway for a few years.

Capped out for the next 3 years minimum..

and cant trade a first until 2025

In comment 15928774 TyreeHelmet said:

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It's still an enormous mistake to let a borderline all star ( sorry I love Brunson) walk for nothing. Even if it would be to use him in a trade down the line. When you have a generational talent like Luka, you do everything possible to surround him with the best players. Especially given Brunson's playoff record. Correct me if I'm wrong but they are capped out anyway for a few years.

Mavs did handle Brunson wrong, and realized it too late, because of the favorable treatment the NBA cap rules give for keeping your own players.

Safe to say they didn't see him as all-star material, or they wouldn't have made the mistake to begin with. And, at the end, they weren't going to go too crazy to keep him and outbid the Knicks.

Brunson has played very well here, offensively, but he hasn't made a difference in the Knicks' won-loss record (yet). And the Mavs lost to the Pistons last night because they gave up too many points, not because they couldn't score.

Tomorrow's a chance to make the Mavs pay for their mistake and improve the draft pick the Knicks own.

The Knicks Offensive numbers have been excellent with him running it. Far better than last year, and that's with a team that's shooting 32% from 3. Their shots haven't fallen yet and they're scoring 116 a game, 7th in the NBA.

There have been a handful of games where but for his handling and made shots in the 4th quarter would have definitely been losses last season. So he has made an impact if we want to argue it.

The team defense has been awful with a "defensive genius" at HC.

In comment 15928752 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

In comment 15928469 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15928417 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: In comment 15927986 AG5686 said: Quote: In comment 15927983 Enzo said: Quote: EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now. I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho... Mitchell would have been a mistake Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit. Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving? Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys?? Ill take the later thank you You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for? And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake? You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one. I meant Duran with Kyrie as a package. I would take Durant right now if we could get him... Quote: I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs.. The 1 year deals were solid the resigning and running it back was the bad decision that caused the team to trade picks to dump those deals. The 4th seed was the worse thing that happened to this team. It cause them to sign Randle to big money and re-up all older role players to 2+ year contracts

Re-signing Randle didn't hurt at all. Know where they'd be right now if they let Randle walk? 5-6 games worse with more cap room. Yay.

over the long haul of a season. Not right now.