Consider this a post Detroit win/pre Bucks game tonight thread.
Feel free to post a Knicks/Bucks thread if you wish.
My sense so far is when this team is healthy Mitch,Grimes,RJ,IQ....it will gel-especially on the Defensive end of the floor.
Last night was a thumping,but the truth is,as well as we played on O,our Defense sucked....it just so happened that our opponent sucked even worse.
Sitting here at 10-11,I feel pretty good about the team.
We had 2 epic battles with Memphis,who seems like a playoff bound team,and both games came down to 1 possession.
The loss to Portland was essentially the same,a 1 possession game against an above .500 team.
These next 4 games will be difficult,and if we can get 2 wins,I would be extremely pleased.The sked gets easier afterwards....
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
I was at the Portland game, sitting on the chase bridge on the Knicks side, he engages with every player and coach, he is not sitting at the end of the bench sulking..
I know we are all brainwashed by Thibs but you can play Lavine and Grimes together
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
what are you referring to may I ask?
I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...
Geez man people really need to pump the brakes on Grimes. I hope he turns out to be a good player but he is far from that right now. There's no reason to drastically alter your team building around him. It was insane to deem him untouchbale this summer and honestly still is.
Lavine is an all star....
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Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff.
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
what are you referring to may I ask?
I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...
From begley
"Internally at MSG, there is heightened scrutiny on the club’s game-by-game performance. ... and it’s not solely focused on Thibodeau."
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Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff.
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...
Why not? So we can trade more lottery picks to cover up our mistakes?
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In comment 15927911 Knickstape said:
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Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff.
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
what are you referring to may I ask?
I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...
From begley
"Internally at MSG, there is heightened scrutiny on the club’s game-by-game performance. ... and it’s not solely focused on Thibodeau."
As there should be. Leon Rose is a charlatan.
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Dolan isn’t happy with anyone. Looking like heads are about to roll for all of the Knicks front office and staff.
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
what are you referring to may I ask?
I am not a fan of tearing this FO up...
You would honestly be upset if they dumped this front office for an experienced GM/ President? Maybe someone who has actually built a good nba team before? I know that's a crazy concept for the Knicks because Walsh was the last hire that actually had that experience...which is pretty wild to think about.
Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital.
Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
Oh goodie - Dolan’s engaged. That always leads to good things.
Not a lot of happy moments courtside for Jimmy D.
Three home games in a row coming up: Mavs, Cavs and Hawks, no softies.
Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital.
Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO
lol. WTF is this nonsense? What else do we want? Maybe a viable contender? It's only been 3 offseasons comprised of significant cap space and multiple lottery picks. At what point are we allowed to be good?
I really dont think they are far off but its painfully obvious right now they should of made the deal for Mitchell
Hint: After 3 years of accumulating cap space and draft picks, Vegas still only putting the Knicks at 38 wins is NOT a good thing…
Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital.
Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO
The only two good moves Rose made were signing Brunson (former client, right?) and trading for Reddish. Otherwise, he's been awful. His trades, aside from the Cam one, have been nonsensical (with these ridiculous protections). He signed Kemba and Noel only to trade them away along with our lottery pick. It looks the same thing will happen with Fournier. Extending Barrett? Awful. Mitchell trade falling through. Robinson extension? Remains to be seen. Hartenstein sucks.
Grimes and Sims look fine, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to Rose.
I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
Mitchell would have been a mistake
Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit.
Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving?
Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys??
Ill take the later thank you
Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital.
Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO
Is this a joke? Man Knicks have set the bar low. It's like when Phil Jackson was praised for not trading any 1st round picks...
What more do you want? How about building a good team? How about nailing some good free agent signings or trades?
Brunson was a really good signing. But unless there's another player out there who's his godson, his son is his agent and the players father gets hired to the coaching staff- how is that remotely replicated?
Here’s to hoping Dolan gets rid of all these clowns and hires some people that can properly build a team
What is it about dolan's record that makes you hope he will hire the right people to "properly build a team"?
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Vegas has our win total at 38,we are on or above that pace now.Most of Rose's FA moves have been fairly benign...
Meaning,no bad long term deals...we have draft capital.
Not sure what more you want here,team is trending in the right direction.IMHO
Is this a joke? Man Knicks have set the bar low. It's like when Phil Jackson was praised for not trading any 1st round picks...
What more do you want? How about building a good team? How about nailing some good free agent signings or trades?
Brunson was a really good signing. But unless there's another player out there who's his godson, his son is his agent and the players father gets hired to the coaching staff- how is that remotely replicated?
we argue about Leon mainly because i want to give him the benefit of the doubt but at this point he needs to shit or get off the pot, its time to make the bjg move and live with it..
You got Brunson, now add someone next to him, keep as much of the youth as possible and roll..
but i think he knows once he makes the big move he is on the clock and he hesitates..
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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
We traded our lottery pick to get Kemba off the team. I'd say that has the potential to be a disaster. Imagine if the player we could've taken ends up as Donovan Mitchell or SGA or someone like that.
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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.
I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
Mitchell would have been a mistake
Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit.
Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving?
Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys??
Ill take the later thank you
I'm talking about the subsequent contracts for Burks/Noel/Rose.
"Seemed great at the time" and saying none of them are long-term is setting the bar pretty low.
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In comment 15927983 Enzo said:
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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
We traded our lottery pick to get Kemba off the team. I'd say that has the potential to be a disaster. Imagine if the player we could've taken ends up as Donovan Mitchell or SGA or someone like that.
They didnt trade their lottery pick to get Kemba off the team..
they traded their lottery pick for 4 future 1sts and then used one of the future firsts that likely wont convey and a bunch of 2nds to get off Kemba
Other than that a ton of garbage garbage moves
Toppin over haliburton
Extend Randle
Sign Fournier
Sign kemba
Extend Noel
Extend burks
Extend rj - had this year to watch and make that decision
You want to be happy about quickley they missed on maxey who was the original target and Desmond bane drafted a few picks after
Absolutely Botched the Donovan mitchell trade
Some of you want to be excited over some extremely extremely heavily protected 1sts that they acquired. But here’s the thing. Noone in the league values those picks as you saw with the
MItchell trade. And no one is gonna trade down for our 3/4 late 1sts we have and give up a top 7 lotto pick.
Add the fact that everyone in the league knows this front office isn’t trying to draft and develop just by seeing the way they operate. So even if some of these picks convert. They’ll just be used to dump more salary of the awful contracts this regime handed out
Other than that a ton of garbage garbage moves
Toppin over haliburton
Extend Randle
Sign Fournier
Sign kemba
Extend Noel
Extend burks
Extend rj - had this year to watch and make that decision
You want to be happy about quickley they missed on maxey who was the original target and Desmond bane drafted a few picks after
Absolutely Botched the Donovan mitchell trade
Some of you want to be excited over some extremely extremely heavily protected 1sts that they acquired. But here’s the thing. Noone in the league values those picks as you saw with the
MItchell trade. And no one is gonna trade down for our 3/4 late 1sts we have and give up a top 7 lotto pick.
Add the fact that everyone in the league knows this front office isn’t trying to draft and develop just by seeing the way they operate. So even if some of these picks convert. They’ll just be used to dump more salary of the awful contracts this regime handed out
They got Brunson, so you cant say they almost didnt get them and use it as a strike against him..
We have no idea if Toppin over Haliburton was a bad decision because Toppin is not given the minutes by Thibs..hipefully soon..
you had to extend Randle when they did, he was coming off an all nba season and was willing to sign for a 100 million discount..It was no brianer at the time..
Heavily protected? right now the Wizards pick is going to convey this year, Dallas pick is in the lottery at current moment and the other is only top 5 protected from Milwaukee..
They arent that protected..
The Quickley, Grimes and Sims picks look like very good picks..
They missed on Kemba, Fournier, Burks and Noel resigns, but really did it hurt them that much?
They've also shown mixed signals when it comes to how they value draft picks. On the one hand they traded a pick for Reddish because they thought having the player is more valuable than the unknown of a protected pick. Then this year instead of drafting Duren, Griffin, or whoever, they kicked the can down the road because now suddenly its better to have protected picks again? On top of that, they were rumored to have been hesitant to include Quickley in Mitchell talks, but now we hear they want to trade him for a first? They just seem all over the place.
They have been okay in the draft, but have missed on some big time players. Look, we all like Toppin and Quickley, but the obvious picks there were Haliburton and Bane. Not just obvious in retrospect, but I remember multiple posters talking both of those guys up before the draft.
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They land one free agent who has mega family ties, and they almost didn’t even land him if the mavs had just given Brunson the contract he wanted 4/54 before last season started.
Other than that a ton of garbage garbage moves
Toppin over haliburton
Extend Randle
Sign Fournier
Sign kemba
Extend Noel
Extend burks
Extend rj - had this year to watch and make that decision
You want to be happy about quickley they missed on maxey who was the original target and Desmond bane drafted a few picks after
Absolutely Botched the Donovan mitchell trade
Some of you want to be excited over some extremely extremely heavily protected 1sts that they acquired. But here’s the thing. Noone in the league values those picks as you saw with the
MItchell trade. And no one is gonna trade down for our 3/4 late 1sts we have and give up a top 7 lotto pick.
Add the fact that everyone in the league knows this front office isn’t trying to draft and develop just by seeing the way they operate. So even if some of these picks convert. They’ll just be used to dump more salary of the awful contracts this regime handed out
They got Brunson, so you cant say they almost didnt get them and use it as a strike against him..
We have no idea if Toppin over Haliburton was a bad decision because Toppin is not given the minutes by Thibs..hipefully soon..
you had to extend Randle when they did, he was coming off an all nba season and was willing to sign for a 100 million discount..It was no brianer at the time..
Heavily protected? right now the Wizards pick is going to convey this year, Dallas pick is in the lottery at current moment and the other is only top 5 protected from Milwaukee..
They arent that protected..
The Quickley, Grimes and Sims picks look like very good picks..
They missed on Kemba, Fournier, Burks and Noel resigns, but really did it hurt them that much?
Fine retract the Brunson part.
The toppin one is a problem because you don’t draft someone then immediately resign the player in front of him. That’s poor asset management.
Especially knowing we needed a point guard at the time. Haliburton fit every single aspect of what the Knicks needed. More so than toppin
2nd. Julius had been in the league for 6 years or more when he had that crazy Covid season. But instead of proceeding with caution we threw every season he had before that fluke season and said. Oh we definitely gotta re sign this guy. It’s a bargain. Once again. Poor asset management.
My argument with the picks is the Knicks don’t plan on making 3 picks in this draft. And no team wants to trade down from top5-7 in lottery for late 16-24 range picks. It’s not like the nfl. How often do trades like that happen.
Grimes I love that pick. But quickley I am not a fan of and like I said. They were rumored to be heavily in on maxey and missed on that
Sims is a great pick for the spot he went. But again. We go and sign hartenstein who isn’t a fit in thibs scheme and then devout big money to Mitch.
More poor asset management imo.
This roster has been constructed so poorly and that falls on management
But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair
But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair
So If you’re going letter grade for this front office where do they land
Until we get a different coach that is more adaptable to the changing times in the NBA we will continue to lose
Brunson has been a great signing but look at the other deals.
Signed Noel and Burks, had to attach draft assets to them to unload them to sign Brunson.
Signed Fournier, is currently benched and did not significantly upgrade the roster from when they let go Bullock.
I know some people would argue with me, but the Hartenstein signing was completely unnecessary with Sims being a perfectly adequate backup center (and Obi trying to compete for minutes).
They make moves that they think are good in a vacuum without trying to construct a roster with a vision. If you looked at this team with the addition of Brunson, does it improve us beyond putting us just out of the lottery? I think that's the most damning thing. In this league you want to be winning or you want to have a high draft pick.
I think if you asked most of us, we would have said that this is a team that will hover around .500 before the season began. This is the exact spot you don't want to be as an NBA franchise and all the maneuvering that this FO has done has netted us some future draft capital that could end up being picks in the teens or 20s.
And now we watch a team that can beat up on the dregs of the league, but can't compete against teams that are above .500.
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to either get a star or let the young guys get the bulk of the minutes, not going tk argue that point..
But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair
So If you’re going letter grade for this front office where do they land
c+
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In comment 15928076 nygiants16 said:
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to either get a star or let the young guys get the bulk of the minutes, not going tk argue that point..
But saying they have been abysmal is not really fair
So If you’re going letter grade for this front office where do they land
c+
B
I give that based upon where we were when Rose took over (27wiins i think)
And where we are now...
if they do that ill give them the offseason to find a star next to Brunson..
if they do that ill give them the offseason to find a star next to Brunson..
Interestingly enough,the Donovan Mitchell trade would have fixed the logjam,but it also would have made our backcourt small and lacking in D.
I don't think the front office has been abysmal but they haven't been memorable either.
The roster before Rose took over was brutal. To be fair he was afforded a bunch of picks and cap room, but the roster is better, even if uninspiring.
One move away...problem is nothing is there.
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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.
I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
Mitchell would have been a mistake
Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit.
Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving?
Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys??
Ill take the later thank you
You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for?
And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake?
You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one.
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In comment 15927983 Enzo said:
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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.
I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
Mitchell would have been a mistake
Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit.
Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving?
Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys??
Ill take the later thank you
You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for?
And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake?
You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one.
i think brunson is close to one
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In comment 15927986 AG5686 said:
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In comment 15927983 Enzo said:
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EVERY signing from summer of 2021 didn't work out - Kemba, Noel, Rose, Fournier. The only one that I wouldn't call a disaster was Burks. And that's without even getting into Randle who at best you can call a TBD - but who probably has negative value around the league right now.
I would argue the Burks Noel Rose deals helped alot...it got us to 4th place in the east and the playoffs..
The Kemba Fournier deals seemed great at the time but didn't pan out
Neither ones are godawful long term disasters tho...
Mitchell would have been a mistake
Dejounte Murray...hmmm that would have been a great fit.
Would you rather be like the Nets and go all in for Durant/Irving?
Or wait for the right FA and develop the young guys??
Ill take the later thank you
You wouldn’t want Kevin Durant on the Knicks? Then who exactly is the right FA you want to wait for?
And how exactly would Mitchell have been a mistake?
You need stars to win and contend in the NBA. The Knicks don’t have and currently don’t have a realistic path to get one.
i think brunson is close to one
Brunson is close to one...and if he can develop any semblance of some D he will be one...he plays a very physical style and seeks contact so I hope he doesn't become injury prone
He reminds me of Alan Iverson who was fearless around the rim