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College Football Playoff set to expand to 12 teams

M.S. : 12/1/2022 7:33 am

in 2024 after agreement with Rose Bowl.

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12 may be too many  
section125 : 12/1/2022 7:42 am : link
teams.
I guess that was next logical step  
Mike in NY : 12/1/2022 7:44 am : link
With not enough SEC teams in it this year and overall having more bowl spots than eligible teams
Way too many  
jeff57 : 12/1/2022 7:51 am : link
It's fine at 4. But money is all that matters.
Third Week in December?  
Arkbach : 12/1/2022 7:53 am : link
No NFL Saturday games that week.
I am still hoping they get to  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/1/2022 7:54 am : link
16 and each conference winner gets in plus 4. 12 is better than the current system as some years get pretty controversial.
How is 12 too many  
Tuckrule : 12/1/2022 8:00 am : link
Should the nfl go back to 4 teams? Would everyone be happy with that. We’ll go right from conference championship to Super Bowl. It’s the same concept. With 12 teams if you have an early loss your still alive.
If a 12 team playoff existed right now  
Costy16 : 12/1/2022 8:03 am : link
Preliminary matchups would be

#8 Penn State vs #9 Clemson (winner plays Georgia/Sugar Bowl)
#5 Ohio State vs #12 Tulane (winner plays USC/Rose Bowl)
#7 Tennessee vs #10 Kansas State (winner plays Michigan/Orange Bowl)
#6 Alabama vs #11 Utah (winner plays TCU/Cotton Bowl)

This is going to be fun when it happens.

RE: How is 12 too many  
jeff57 : 12/1/2022 8:04 am : link
In comment 15927782 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Should the nfl go back to 4 teams? Would everyone be happy with that. We’ll go right from conference championship to Super Bowl. It’s the same concept. With 12 teams if you have an early loss your still alive.


It rewards regular season success. Going to 12 simply dilutes it. And yes, there are too many teams in the playoffs in every professional sport.
Colllege seasons used to be ten games plus one bowl game  
shyster : 12/1/2022 8:18 am : link
for a relative few select teams.

Now there is a scenario where a team could play up to 17 games, with 15 or 16 game seasons being routine.

And the vast majority of players are still risking their health for no pay.

Draft-worthy players who previously passed on bowl games should now logically pass on the extra half of a season.
but what about  
Giantsfan79 : 12/1/2022 8:39 am : link
Studying for final exams?
RE: but what about  
jeff57 : 12/1/2022 8:42 am : link
In comment 15927805 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
Studying for final exams?


You mean they're supposed to be students?
It's not about  
M.S. : 12/1/2022 8:46 am : link

the money. (:-)
RE: RE: How is 12 too many  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2022 8:49 am : link
In comment 15927786 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15927782 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Should the nfl go back to 4 teams? Would everyone be happy with that. We’ll go right from conference championship to Super Bowl. It’s the same concept. With 12 teams if you have an early loss your still alive.



It rewards regular season success. Going to 12 simply dilutes it. And yes, there are too many teams in the playoffs in every professional sport.


Does four teams reward regular season success though? You can have two teams who both lose one game, but because one team lost at the beginning and one at the end of the season the team who lost at the end of the season gets left out.
RE: RE: RE: How is 12 too many  
jeff57 : 12/1/2022 8:55 am : link
In comment 15927817 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15927786 jeff57 said:


Quote:


In comment 15927782 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Should the nfl go back to 4 teams? Would everyone be happy with that. We’ll go right from conference championship to Super Bowl. It’s the same concept. With 12 teams if you have an early loss your still alive.



It rewards regular season success. Going to 12 simply dilutes it. And yes, there are too many teams in the playoffs in every professional sport.



Does four teams reward regular season success though? You can have two teams who both lose one game, but because one team lost at the beginning and one at the end of the season the team who lost at the end of the season gets left out.


The line has to be drawn somewhere. And the entire body of work should be considered. Georgia would get in over Ohio State even if they lost to LSU.
RE: If a 12 team playoff existed right now  
chick310 : 12/1/2022 8:58 am : link
In comment 15927785 Costy16 said:
Quote:
Preliminary matchups would be

#8 Penn State vs #9 Clemson (winner plays Georgia/Sugar Bowl)
#5 Ohio State vs #12 Tulane (winner plays USC/Rose Bowl)
#7 Tennessee vs #10 Kansas State (winner plays Michigan/Orange Bowl)
#6 Alabama vs #11 Utah (winner plays TCU/Cotton Bowl)

This is going to be fun when it happens.


Is that the way they are setting this up?

If the top 4 seeds get a bye, why wouldn't the #1 seed get to play the worst remaining seed after round one games are complete?

For example, if #12 Tulane beat Ohio St then wouldn't they have to play #1 Georgia?
I'm fine with 4  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/1/2022 9:04 am : link
I mean its hard to get competitive with 4. Bring in Tulane to play Ohio State? Whats the point?
________  
I am Ninja : 12/1/2022 9:12 am : link
There are 1000 teams. 12 is fine.

Proportionally reg season still way less "diluted" than the NFL.
RE: Colllege seasons used to be ten games plus one bowl game  
KDavies : 12/1/2022 9:12 am : link
In comment 15927795 shyster said:
Quote:
for a relative few select teams.

Now there is a scenario where a team could play up to 17 games, with 15 or 16 game seasons being routine.

And the vast majority of players are still risking their health for no pay.

Draft-worthy players who previously passed on bowl games should now logically pass on the extra half of a season.


With NIL, a lot of the players (especially with the top teams who will be playing a lot of those games) are making a good bit of money.
Why is 12 too many - it is  
section125 : 12/1/2022 9:20 am : link
a weird number. And how many likely to be drafted players opt out of 3 or 4 additional games?
I do like the extra games as a fan, but we have been disappointed when top players decline playing for fear of injury.
This whole thing is killing the essence of college football  
Jerry in_DC : 12/1/2022 9:22 am : link
College football was always about the games. Winning games, particularly against rival teams was singularly great. Winning conferences was meaningful.

As more and more attention goes to the playoffs and the national championship, it dilutes a lot of stuff that was great about college football. Not completely for sure, it will still be fun.

Now the games are more a means to an end. Hopefully they stop here before the regular season becomes an exhibition like college basketball.

RE: RE: How is 12 too many  
BigBlueShock : 12/1/2022 9:32 am : link
In comment 15927786 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15927782 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Should the nfl go back to 4 teams? Would everyone be happy with that. We’ll go right from conference championship to Super Bowl. It’s the same concept. With 12 teams if you have an early loss your still alive.



It rewards regular season success. Going to 12 simply dilutes it. And yes, there are too many teams in the playoffs in every professional sport.

I have no idea how people always say that having more playoff teams makes the regular season irrelevant. It’s actually the opposite. Unless of course you’re a fan of the usual playoff teams like Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, etc. More teams gives more schools and fan bases something to strive for and dream on. Especially in college where they don’t always go with the teams that had the best regular seasons but veer more towards who the committee “thinks” is the best teams. Which typically eliminates the lesser known schools from consideration, regardless of how good they were in the regular season.

I feel like 8 would have been the sweet spot but 12 is better than 4, imo.
Also aren’t the first round games on campus?  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2022 9:35 am : link
That’s going to be pretty awesome to watch
RE: Also aren’t the first round games on campus?  
Jerry in_DC : 12/1/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15927858 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
That’s going to be pretty awesome to watch


That would help.
They needed to expand the field geographically  
HomerJones45 : 12/1/2022 9:41 am : link
the ratings for the "championship game" (a/k/a the SEC Invitational) have been declining. You can't leave the entire tv audience west of the Mississippi (read CA and TX) without any rooting interest whatsoever. This will allow the "Committee" (ironic that this whole magilla was supposed to take the guess work away from the AP and UPI polls and then replaced it with the guess work of a Committee), to add teams from other locales.

Before the playoffs  
Jerry in_DC : 12/1/2022 9:43 am : link
Every team had something to strive for. Bowl games, rivalries, just winning for the sake of winning. The more that everything is focused on the playoffs, the more all of that stuff goes away.

This is actually a huge gap in American sports - how everything is about the playoffs and a singular championship. Watching European soccer and even F1 really opened my eyes to this - there is real competition and gratification from things other than a single championship, which is really good IMO.

College football had that and is progressively losing it.

Seems to me there's a happy medium  
Dr. D : 12/1/2022 9:45 am : link
between 4 and 12 that would reduce the total # of games a team might play, at least by one.

What's wrong with 8, for example?

So, we went from no playoffs (not too long ago) to FOUR rounds (including championship)?

I'm not a huge college fan, but 12 seems too much. They're supposed to be students and this isn't basketball where another game isn't too big a deal. And does a team like Tulane really have a chance against Ohio State?
RE: Before the playoffs  
jeff57 : 12/1/2022 9:47 am : link
In comment 15927864 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
Every team had something to strive for. Bowl games, rivalries, just winning for the sake of winning. The more that everything is focused on the playoffs, the more all of that stuff goes away.

This is actually a huge gap in American sports - how everything is about the playoffs and a singular championship. Watching European soccer and even F1 really opened my eyes to this - there is real competition and gratification from things other than a single championship, which is really good IMO.

College football had that and is progressively losing it.


Well said. Another thing is ties during the regular season, whether in football or hockey. What's wrong with that.
The playoffs now with 4 teams  
Essex : 12/1/2022 9:51 am : link
are generally non competitive games. It seems silly to expand it to get even more blowouts
RE: Before the playoffs  
HomerJones45 : 12/1/2022 10:05 am : link
In comment 15927864 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
Every team had something to strive for. Bowl games, rivalries, just winning for the sake of winning. The more that everything is focused on the playoffs, the more all of that stuff goes away.

This is actually a huge gap in American sports - how everything is about the playoffs and a singular championship. Watching European soccer and even F1 really opened my eyes to this - there is real competition and gratification from things other than a single championship, which is really good IMO.

College football had that and is progressively losing it.
Exactly. Good post. The counter argument to the playoff system at the time was that it made most of the bowls meaningless which by definition made the season for most college teams meaningless.
RE: RE: How is 12 too many  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/1/2022 10:20 am : link
In comment 15927786 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15927782 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Should the nfl go back to 4 teams? Would everyone be happy with that. We’ll go right from conference championship to Super Bowl. It’s the same concept. With 12 teams if you have an early loss your still alive.



It rewards regular season success. Going to 12 simply dilutes it. And yes, there are too many teams in the playoffs in every professional sport.

Everyone makes this same argument about diluting the regular season, but how does the regular season get less important when MORE teams have a chance for the playoffs later in the season?

Right now, if you have two losses, you're almost certainly not going to make the playoffs. If you have two top-10 teams squaring off and each already has two losses, that game is already completely diluted in the current 4-team playoff scenario. In the 12-team scenario, that game becomes a pre-playoff qualifying round, in a sense, because that third loss is going to put one of those teams on the outside looking in.

The issue that I have with the 12-team playoff is simply that I can already see that it's really just going to be a vehicle to ensure that 3+ SEC teams make the playoffs every year (and it'll probably be 4 SEC teams most years), and that Notre Dame basically becomes an automatic qualifier with 10 wins in any given year (and probably gets in with 9 wins most years as long as their losses aren't embarrassing).

If I actually believed that the process was going to be about broadening the field to include programs that are historically underrepresented, I'd be more enthused about the expansion.
RE: Seems to me there's a happy medium  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/1/2022 10:24 am : link
In comment 15927866 Dr. D said:
Quote:
between 4 and 12 that would reduce the total # of games a team might play, at least by one.

What's wrong with 8, for example?

So, we went from no playoffs (not too long ago) to FOUR rounds (including championship)?

I'm not a huge college fan, but 12 seems too much. They're supposed to be students and this isn't basketball where another game isn't too big a deal. And does a team like Tulane really have a chance against Ohio State?

D-3 has a 32 team playoff. Five rounds, no byes.

And unlike FBS, D-3 football players actually ARE students.
8 or 16 makes sense  
widmerseyebrow : 12/1/2022 10:27 am : link
12 is really stupid.
RE: RE: Seems to me there's a happy medium  
Dr. D : 12/1/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15927899 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15927866 Dr. D said:


Quote:


between 4 and 12 that would reduce the total # of games a team might play, at least by one.

What's wrong with 8, for example?

So, we went from no playoffs (not too long ago) to FOUR rounds (including championship)?

I'm not a huge college fan, but 12 seems too much. They're supposed to be students and this isn't basketball where another game isn't too big a deal. And does a team like Tulane really have a chance against Ohio State?


D-3 has a 32 team playoff. Five rounds, no byes.

And unlike FBS, D-3 football players actually ARE students.

good pt
RE: Also aren’t the first round games on campus?  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/1/2022 11:11 am : link
In comment 15927858 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
That’s going to be pretty awesome to watch


Yeah you do want to give the better record team an advantage. Derp.

If there's anything more idiotic than Roger Goodell it is a board of unnaccountable good ol' boy bureacrats.
16 would be ideal...  
bw in dc : 12/1/2022 11:27 am : link
but I'll live with 12. It's been long overdue for college football at the FBS to modernize with the rest of the college sports landscape, like basketball, baseball, lacrosse, soccer, tennis, golf, etc.

For too many years there have been exhibition games - disguised as bowls - that are meaningless and a colossal waste of time.

Now, we will have 11 bowl games that are hugely meaningful.

Gee, who wants that?
too many games, how many of these kids won't play  
gtt350 : 12/1/2022 11:47 am : link
getting ready for the draft
RE: RE: Also aren’t the first round games on campus?  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2022 11:48 am : link
In comment 15927963 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 15927858 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


That’s going to be pretty awesome to watch



Yeah you do want to give the better record team an advantage. Derp.

If there's anything more idiotic than Roger Goodell it is a board of unnaccountable good ol' boy bureacrats.


If the complaints are the regular season won’t matter, then giving the team with the better record a home field advantage makes the regular season matter. But do you.
RE: too many games, how many of these kids won't play  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2022 11:49 am : link
In comment 15927992 gtt350 said:
Quote:
getting ready for the draft


Has anyone skipped a playoff game since players started skipping bowls?
no but they will now  
gtt350 : 12/1/2022 11:49 am : link
.
Yeah but now #13 and #14 will be pissed  
PatersonPlank : 12/1/2022 11:51 am : link
It will be the same song and dance. Then they will want 16 teams. I'm not sure it changes anything, but it does generate more $$$
If they hadn’t skipped it yet  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2022 11:51 am : link
Why would they skip it now? It’s still a playoff game. They’re going to start skipping a chance to win a national championship over two more games?
RE: no but they will now  
bw in dc : 12/1/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15927997 gtt350 said:
Quote:
.


They will?

But if players do, I will certainly understand the thinking. It's a sport with a short shelf life; and players who could play in the NFL need to protect themselves for that opportunity. Let the NCAA underwrite some protections to entice players to play. They certainly have enough money.
RE: too many games, how many of these kids won't play  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/1/2022 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15927992 gtt350 said:
Quote:
getting ready for the draft


Let them. College sports are not about getting its student athletes to a professional league. Go to 16 games. It would only lead to more upsets and there will be upsets in a 16 game tournament. When that happens a lot of good things will happen which will have a big impact imv.
Players want to skip  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/1/2022 12:14 pm : link
a meaningless archaic pointless bowl game, not an exciting sudden death national huge rating playoff game that almost every other modern sports league adopted.
Cut out 2 of the 3 out of conference games  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 12/1/2022 2:03 pm : link
and require the remaining game to be played against a team from a similarly ranked conference. Keep Norte Dame vs USC but do we really need to see Alabama trounce Louisiana Monroe type games?

It’ll never happen but I’d be curious how a college football champions league would work? Top two teams from the top 5 conferences play a nine game round robin. Not sure how elevations and demotions would work but it would give the remains teams in the 5 conferences a shot without the perennial powerhouses dominating year after year.

Thoughts?
I don’t think they’d cut those games  
ajr2456 : 12/1/2022 2:05 pm : link
Because those games often mean the smaller school getting $1 million for showing up, and those schools need that money.
RE: RE: If a 12 team playoff existed right now  
Mad Mike : 12/1/2022 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15927821 chick310 said:
Quote:

Is that the way they are setting this up?

If the top 4 seeds get a bye, why wouldn't the #1 seed get to play the worst remaining seed after round one games are complete?

For example, if #12 Tulane beat Ohio St then wouldn't they have to play #1 Georgia?

Costy's post is the way I've seen it reported, with no re-seeding. So if there's an upset in the first round, there's no reshuffling to match the top seed against the worst seeded advancing team.
If they add 3-4 games  
Mike from Ohio : 12/1/2022 5:01 pm : link
you will absolutely see players with NFL futures opting out. What potential first round pick on the #11 team wants to play more games with no real shot at winning anything? Or even if he does, having to get through the grinder of 3 extra games?

And no, the NCAA will never have any financial guarantees for potential draft picks hurt in bowl games. It is just a cost-benefit analysis you are putting on these 20 year old kids. Do you piss of your university's fan base by sitting out, or do you bet your financial security and life long dream on a shot at glory?

As a fan I love having more meaningful games since most of the bowls have no tradition or interest. If I were a player with an a bright NFL future I think would not even consider suiting up for these games.
RE: RE: Colllege seasons used to be ten games plus one bowl game  
Brown_Hornet : 12/1/2022 6:03 pm : link
In comment 15927832 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15927795 shyster said:


Quote:


for a relative few select teams.

Now there is a scenario where a team could play up to 17 games, with 15 or 16 game seasons being routine.

And the vast majority of players are still risking their health for no pay.

Draft-worthy players who previously passed on bowl games should now logically pass on the extra half of a season.



With NIL, a lot of the players (especially with the top teams who will be playing a lot of those games) are making a good bit of money.
The playoff system could very well increase a player's NIL value.

I get that this is much more than history shows but today's players are much better conditioned.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/1/2022 6:31 pm : link
Having a CFP game in South Bend or The Big House or The Horseshoe...that seems like a good time to me.

@ the end of the day, it is all about the $.
RE: Players want to skip  
HomerJones45 : 12/1/2022 8:38 pm : link
In comment 15928042 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
a meaningless archaic pointless bowl game, not an exciting sudden death national huge rating playoff game that almost every other modern sports league adopted.
The bowl games were rendered meaningless by the dopey playoff system. Prior to that, they were showcases, especially for players from smaller schools or less well known players.

And we have no idea who will skip games under this new system. It was one thing to play two extra games at the end of the season instead of one bowl game. It's another to play 4 extra games at the end of the season instead of one bowl game.
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