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Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 2m BREAKING: Right-hander Jacob deGrom has signed a five-year, $185 million contract with the Texas Rangers, sources tell ESPN. Physical is passed. Deal is done. Includes conditional sixth-year option that would take total deal to $222 million. Full no-trade clause. A massive haul. Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 2m Last year, the Rangers started their rebuild by committing $500 million to Corey Seager and Marcus Semien. Now, they’ll build their pitching staff around Jacob deGrom, whose five-year, $185 million deal has no deferrals. Between that and no state tax, the money is enormous. Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 2m In Jacob deGrom, the Rangers get the most talented pitcher in the world. They are also placing an enormous bet on his health, signing the 34-year-old to a five-year deal at $37 million a season. The Rangers saw the reward for the two-time Cy Young winner well worth the risk. @JeffPassan The question for the New York Mets is now: How do they replace deGrom? Is it Carlos Rodón? Justin Verlander? They’ve pursued all of the top pitchers, including Kodai Senga and Chris Bassitt. The ~$40 million a year earmarked for deGrom can go a lot of different places. |
4m
OFFICIAL: We've signed RHP Jacob deGrom to a 5-year contract.
if he wasn't going to be a Met my first hope was not having to face him in the division.
it's an aggressive deal but i think it has a chance of being not terrible.
let's say a cy young season is worth 50m, if you get 2 JDG years out of him then you can get 1-2 down years out of him, and it still comes close to paying off even if he's shot by the final year (or injured for a 1 year).
i do think it's probably a risk the mets were wise to pass on. factoring in taxes they probably would have had to pay 180m or more. and they can sign 2 SP for the price of 1.
I have no issue with that.
Rangers ar spending a lot of money past two years.
Texas is terrible and this won’t make them better. DeGrom is going to have to miss 7-8 starts out of a full expected seasonal rotation likely just for maintenance rest. The Semien signing looks like a total dud. Their farm is weak.
I expect Mets to go after Rodon and Senga and I think this opens up the demand on Eppler to earn his GM job and shape a team.
Mets shouldn’t make a mistake by overpaying to keep Nimmo either.
Or, he’s on the IL.
this past season was a sour note to end on. he was lights out those first few games back but all year it was one story after another about his frustrations with mets. he took the most money and good for him, but his frustrations over the prior deal that he negotiated with his former agent and the previous ownership were nobody's fault except his own.
if they can get 2 of senga/bassitt/rodon for comparable total cash outlay (let's call it ~$180m-$200m) they are at least a little better hedged against risk.
8m
Free agency is moving fast now. Justin Verlander front and center for Mets
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino @martinonyc
9m
Steve Cohen on DeGrom: “I wish him well. He has the right to choose his team. Now this team has to move on to the next thing. “
There is zero chance he finishes that contract healthy
1m
The Mets perceived DeGrom as so far down the road with Texas by the time they were told about it that they did not ever get to determine what their last, best offer would be.
don't begrudge him for taking the biggest deal but i do think he clearly had some kind of hostility towards the org.
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Andy Martino @martinonyc
1m
The Mets perceived DeGrom as so far down the road with Texas by the time they were told about it that they did not ever get to determine what their last, best offer would be.
don't begrudge him for taking the biggest deal but i do think he clearly had some kind of hostility towards the org.
Really? Was it due to the way he was handled medically?
There is very little chance they bounce NYY or HOU. They still suck, even with Jake.
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Andy Martino @martinonyc
1m
The Mets perceived DeGrom as so far down the road with Texas by the time they were told about it that they did not ever get to determine what their last, best offer would be.
don't begrudge him for taking the biggest deal but i do think he clearly had some kind of hostility towards the org.
Really? Was it due to the way he was handled medically?
he was supposedly pissed that alderson said he had a slight tear last year, maybe he viewed it as a negative towards his FA value? he seemed clearly pissed at the deal he signed with BVW and the Wilpons but that was all pre-Cohen so im not sure why he still had issues with the nym org.
Still hopeful for him in 2024
There is zero chance he finishes that contract healthy
More like the Mets fucked him for years when they wasted dominant starts of his without even scratching a run or two.
I wish him godspeed. I hope he wins every AL CY Young award from here until that contract runs out.
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Andy Martino @martinonyc
8m
Free agency is moving fast now. Justin Verlander front and center for Mets
martinonyc's avatar
Andy Martino @martinonyc
9m
Steve Cohen on DeGrom: “I wish him well. He has the right to choose his team. Now this team has to move on to the next thing. “
I won't mind watching Kate Upton in the stands for a few games.
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Sign Nimmo and one of Rondon/JV/Senga.
There is zero chance he finishes that contract healthy
More like the Mets fucked him for years when they wasted dominant starts of his without even scratching a run or two.
I wish him godspeed. I hope he wins every AL CY Young award from here until that contract runs out.
Meanwhile, they paid him good money while he rehabbed.
I hope he falls flat on his face. Assuming, of course he stays healthy enough to actually throw 30 starts.
The Mets make the smart move and don't cave for the longer deal which they know more then anyone how healthy he will be.
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Sign Nimmo and one of Rondon/JV/Senga.
There is zero chance he finishes that contract healthy
More like the Mets fucked him for years when they wasted dominant starts of his without even scratching a run or two.
I wish him godspeed. I hope he wins every AL CY Young award from here until that contract runs out.
the under market years he's pissed about were when the wilpons hired his former agent to extend him and larp as a GM with Robinson Cano sucking up the little $ that could have gone to non-geriatric non-cheating hitters.
the last 2 years under cohen if anything JDG has been overpaid considering he only pitched 150 innings.
Andy Martino @martinonyc
1m
I would not call Verlander a plan B for Mets, btw. Team has been very impressed with and enamored of him through free agent process.
The Mets have already talked with Justin Verlander, Carlos Rodón, and Kodai Senga so I would expect them to move quickly to ensure they get one of the top options available.
picking up the QO picks from JDG and getting Verlander seems about as soft of a landing as you can hope for.
The Rangers aren’t bouncing the Astros.
when there are enough articles over the last year saying it and then he leaves without seriously negotiating we've seen both smoke and fire.
will strike fast*
I know that the various comments I'm reading from you all re the wisdom and financial prudence of letting him go is correct, and yet I feel really sad. He was one of ours, he was picked by The Mets in 2010, and came up in The Mets minor league system. I feel the same way I felt when I heard that Tom Seaver had been traded to Cinn.
He was a class act, I wish him the absolute best as he goes forward.
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In comment 15929217 speedywheels said:
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Sign Nimmo and one of Rondon/JV/Senga.
There is zero chance he finishes that contract healthy
More like the Mets fucked him for years when they wasted dominant starts of his without even scratching a run or two.
I wish him godspeed. I hope he wins every AL CY Young award from here until that contract runs out.
Meanwhile, they paid him good money while he rehabbed.
I hope he falls flat on his face. Assuming, of course he stays healthy enough to actually throw 30 starts.
Why am I not surprised.
Dude, that's a terrible take. You can't say he didn't give his all, never complained, was a great teammate, and gave us some very special memories and Mets' moments.
The run of poor offensive output during his starts, at any time he could've complained or threw teammates under the bus, but he remained a consummate professional. Anybody that would now root for his failure is an ungrateful fan, IMO.
But because of the past two seasons (especially this past year) I'm not even a little sad.
I do think the Mets are a worse team right now than when the season ended but it ended on a bad note.
The right ownership is in place now, take a little (not a lot) of time to regroup and move forward deliberately.
the worst thing the Mets could do now is overpay for their second choice. that's a Wilpon thing. It's how you wind up with Jason Bay when you're outbid on Matt Holliday.
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and re-sign Bassit.
will strike fast*
please god no, i cant handle another year of the human rain delay
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In comment 15929217 speedywheels said:
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Sign Nimmo and one of Rondon/JV/Senga.
There is zero chance he finishes that contract healthy
More like the Mets fucked him for years when they wasted dominant starts of his without even scratching a run or two.
I wish him godspeed. I hope he wins every AL CY Young award from here until that contract runs out.
Meanwhile, they paid him good money while he rehabbed.
I hope he falls flat on his face. Assuming, of course he stays healthy enough to actually throw 30 starts.
this is so shitty. come on man.
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He can decide where he wants to end his career.
when there are enough articles over the last year saying it and then he leaves without seriously negotiating we've seen both smoke and fire.
I mean we said the same thing about Syndergaard. When he finally spoke on the issue, he said that wasn't the case.
I really feel like we attach more drama to this than there needs to be.
Especially for a franchise icon who gave his best seasons to the Mets and had so many great performances wasted by shit management, hard to me to find ways to be upset with him. Legend.
But because of the past two seasons (especially this past year) I'm not even a little sad.
I do think the Mets are a worse team right now than when the season ended but it ended on a bad note.
The right ownership is in place now, take a little (not a lot) of time to regroup and move forward deliberately.
the worst thing the Mets could do now is overpay for their second choice. that's a Wilpon thing. It's how you wind up with Jason Bay when you're outbid on Matt Holliday.
exactly how I feel, I had genuine chills that day when he returned to the mound and they blasted simple man but fast forward to setting the table to win the div and be in the playoffs
Only after 12 starts he already looked somewhat worn down.
I truly hope the best for the guy though.
His career is one of the weirdest I can recall for any player. Late bloomer who showed up, won rookie of the year, and turned into an utterly dominant pitcher until Covid and injuries robbed of him of the majority of his last 3 seasons here.
I want him to make the HOF but i have felt for awhile he needs either another dominant regular season/Cy Young or a World Series ring in which he has a great postseason. I don’t think he’s getting the latter in Texas and I don’t know if his health will hold up enough for the former.
I wish Jake well. I hope he doesn’t have any resentment for the Mets since the Wilpons are out of the picture. He is a legacy player for us now and there should be a day years from now to retire 48.
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In comment 15929240 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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He can decide where he wants to end his career.
when there are enough articles over the last year saying it and then he leaves without seriously negotiating we've seen both smoke and fire.
I mean we said the same thing about Syndergaard. When he finally spoke on the issue, he said that wasn't the case.
I really feel like we attach more drama to this than there needs to be.
Especially for a franchise icon who gave his best seasons to the Mets and had so many great performances wasted by shit management, hard to me to find ways to be upset with him. Legend.
Stop.
He’s not an icon or legend now any more. You lose that leaving like this. He chose money. That’s fine. That’s how sports are now. He won’t get his jersey retired here. Maybe a ring of honor in ten years or something.
Does anyone remember when Seaver left, and how you felt then? Do you feel similarly now? I do.
Question for the masses …
I set the over/under on starts in Texas at 75. Whattaya got?
But because of the past two seasons (especially this past year) I'm not even a little sad.
I do think the Mets are a worse team right now than when the season ended but it ended on a bad note.
The right ownership is in place now, take a little (not a lot) of time to regroup and move forward deliberately.
the worst thing the Mets could do now is overpay for their second choice. that's a Wilpon thing. It's how you wind up with Jason Bay when you're outbid on Matt Holliday.
They went with Bay because he was cheaper. Verlander will probably get the higher AAV bc he won CY and WS last year and despite age he's been more durable than JDG. He threw more innings off TJS this year than JDG the last 2 combined. Signing Verlander would be more like pivoting to Manny Ramirez after missing on A-Rod.
Don't be a dick
Does anyone remember when Seaver left, and how you felt then? Do you feel similarly now? I do.
I was a kid then and was heartbroken. It was also a trade so I was livid with the Mets.
Im not a kid now, nor is deGrom. Like I said before, I don’t wish bad on the guy. Just no interest in rooting for him in Texas. He does well, I don’t hate it. But I do admit, things don’t go well? I won’t be for the guy.
Seaver himself was upset he got traded. That was much worse for me.
but the deGrominator should have stayed a Met.
Does anyone remember when Seaver left, and how you felt then? Do you feel similarly now? I do.
I don’t think he cares. Time changes all of us. Hes changed too. The Cy Young seasons then warped into pandemic and 2 plus lost seasons of injuries has aged him and changed him a bit.
I think Mets dodged a huge landmine.
Stop.
He’s not an icon or legend now any more. You lose that leaving like this. He chose money. That’s fine. That’s how sports are now. He won’t get his jersey retired here. Maybe a ring of honor in ten years or something.
lol
2035: $12,000,000
2036: $13,500,000
2037: $15,000,000
2038: $12,000,000
2039: $15,000,000
[quote] In comment 15929258 Earl the goat said:
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Stevie. Got get Trea Turner and Carlos Rodan
+1. Wishing that someone be injured because they chose financial safety and security for themselves and family is
...? I'm sure you're not serious.
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In comment 15929240 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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He can decide where he wants to end his career.
when there are enough articles over the last year saying it and then he leaves without seriously negotiating we've seen both smoke and fire.
I mean we said the same thing about Syndergaard. When he finally spoke on the issue, he said that wasn't the case.
I really feel like we attach more drama to this than there needs to be.
Especially for a franchise icon who gave his best seasons to the Mets and had so many great performances wasted by shit management, hard to me to find ways to be upset with him. Legend.
How did things work out for Syndergaard? Anyone hear any rumors of him being connected to the highest spending team in baseball this offseason even as they are linked to almost every other UFA pitcher?
When Syndergaard spoke las tyear he said he left the mets because last year was an important year for him and he wasn't sure how stable the mets org was. So instead of playing on a 100 win team he played for a 70 win team that fired it's manager in-season, traded him at the deadline, and ended up entering UFA off the worst statistical year of his career.
His decision to leave the mets probably had a minimal impact on the outcome compared to his fastball being down 4 mph but id imagine he wishes he had a do-over on alienating the biggest spending owner in the sport. his situation and jdgs are obviously very different but what's similar is that they both clearly preferred to not be mets any longer.
I'd be fine with Verlander, but hopefully not to a Scherzer deal.
Sad day for Mets.... but life goes on..
Go load up elsewhere..
Go nuts and get Verlander, Rodon, and Bassitt..
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In comment 15929243 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15929240 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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He can decide where he wants to end his career.
when there are enough articles over the last year saying it and then he leaves without seriously negotiating we've seen both smoke and fire.
I mean we said the same thing about Syndergaard. When he finally spoke on the issue, he said that wasn't the case.
I really feel like we attach more drama to this than there needs to be.
Especially for a franchise icon who gave his best seasons to the Mets and had so many great performances wasted by shit management, hard to me to find ways to be upset with him. Legend.
How did things work out for Syndergaard? Anyone hear any rumors of him being connected to the highest spending team in baseball this offseason even as they are linked to almost every other UFA pitcher?
When Syndergaard spoke las tyear he said he left the mets because last year was an important year for him and he wasn't sure how stable the mets org was. So instead of playing on a 100 win team he played for a 70 win team that fired it's manager in-season, traded him at the deadline, and ended up entering UFA off the worst statistical year of his career.
His decision to leave the mets probably had a minimal impact on the outcome compared to his fastball being down 4 mph but id imagine he wishes he had a do-over on alienating the biggest spending owner in the sport. his situation and jdgs are obviously very different but what's similar is that they both clearly preferred to not be mets any longer.
Noah left because he didn't want the Mets fans to have expectations of him being himself... that's what he said. He knew he wasn't the same.
I loved that explanation.
He knows he's a shell and although his heart was in NY, he had to make the change for himself.
I'd be fine with Verlander, but hopefully not to a Scherzer deal.
Manny was a few years older than A-Rod but point taken. Verlander has been a freak in the Randy Johnson mold so who knows how long he can keep doing it. for non-JDG/Verlander mortals both 35 and 40 are past prime.
The Mets make the smart move and don't cave for the longer deal which they know more then anyone how healthy he will be.
This is where I'm at on this.
I'm sad he's gone, but I couldn't see giving him that much money with his injury history. Even with a bloated payroll like the Mets have, spending 15% of it on him at this point is just a bad idea.
Thanks for the memories, Jacob :)
Sad day for Mets.... but life goes on..
Go load up elsewhere..
Go nuts and get Verlander, Rodon, and Bassitt..
I don’t think Bassitt likes NY.
Texas has no state income tax and this is a huge deal for him. They clearly wanted him badly and overpayed. Mets did that with Scherzer.
Maybe Zeigler, but who else has any real promise?
How many years do Verlander, Scherzer, and Bassitt have left?
They are all past their prime.
I like Magill and Peterson, but I don't think either one is a #1, or 2 in a rotation. Where will a new top of the order group of pitchers come from?
Noah left because he didn't want the Mets fans to have expectations of him being himself... that's what he said. He knew he wasn't the same.
I loved that explanation.
He knows he's a shell and although his heart was in NY, he had to make the change for himself.
that was his explanation in August, after his first team blew it up and when he was getting bumped in the PHI rotation from having to face the mets.
im not saying there wasnt truth in his comments, there probably was, but that wasnt what he said last november right after signing. and what he said last nov was a big change from what he'd said last oct. he was taking shots at the mets early in the season last year re the team no hitter so forgive me if im not fully buying that he only left to ground himself in chill west coast vibes.
again these guys are free to make whatever decisions they want. it just seems obvious what they wanted was to not be mets any longer. isnt that obvious?
I think he is pushing the limits of what the human body can do and is breaking down as a result, and he hasn't found a way to be more "crafty." The usual dichotomy of "thrower" vs "pitcher" doesn't apply. He's already both. He just needs to find an approach that doesn't put so much stress on his body.
Mets' offer to deGrom was 3 years in $120M range. Sides were in contact Thursday, but no back-and-forth Friday (today). So there was no "if you can top this" bidding. The Mets got word from deGrom camp not that much before the world found out that he was going to the Rangers.
separately they have to get mcneil and alonso extended this offseason.
At least this happened early in the off-season, so we still have enough time to improve the team.
Degrom starts have been stressful for three seasons now - waiting for the discomfort, soreness, tweak, etc. He had a big opportunity to go out on a high note for the Mets this year and didn’t come through.
Hope he has fun in Texas, not sure if he’s a golfer, but I recommend he pick it up as he’ll have a lot of time for it in October the next five years.
@michaelgbaron
In the end, whether it’s the #Mets or any team, you want players who truly want to be with your team.
It takes two to tango. And from my seat, only one was on the dance floor here. And it wasn’t Jacob deGrom.
And that’s ok. That’s the player’s right. Sucks for everyone else.
bring on some SP who want to be here and win rings.
I have no issue with that.
They would’ve at least needed to go that high to equal what he got considering no state tax in Texas vs the taxes in NY.
Leiter,Bradford, White and Ragans are very talented
I have complete faith Steve Cohen would have paid more, but Jake clearly didn't want to be here anymore. Time to take a breath and then pivot to Rodon/Verlander/Senga. I don't want Bassitt back after the way ended this past season. I think the Mets have anticipated this scenario with Degrominator since before the season ended.
Cohen, Eppler, Buck had nothing to do with his previous contract and nothing to do with any of the supposed problems deGrom may have had with the team in the past.
If he was unhappy about Alderson making comments about his injury, okay. But to the point of a year long grudge that you never get over?
It remains very confusing to me what exactly his problem was with the organization. But it's now clear there was truth to those reports.
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In comment 15929220 Eric on Li said:
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Andy Martino @martinonyc
1m
The Mets perceived DeGrom as so far down the road with Texas by the time they were told about it that they did not ever get to determine what their last, best offer would be.
don't begrudge him for taking the biggest deal but i do think he clearly had some kind of hostility towards the org.
Really? Was it due to the way he was handled medically?
he was supposedly pissed that alderson said he had a slight tear last year, maybe he viewed it as a negative towards his FA value? he seemed clearly pissed at the deal he signed with BVW and the Wilpons but that was all pre-Cohen so im not sure why he still had issues with the nym org.
Thanks, was not aware. Sounds like he just wanted out. He’s the Rangers problem now. Well, until they have to trade him.
It's very similar to what the Dodgers did prior to their run.
With Max FA next year and no real pitching prospect in sight this might be the last year they try to salvage the current roster.
Before you say Diaz, you can always move a elite closer mid season....
Or am I crazy to think this?
He was right there with Pedro and Koufax in domination and mastery.
Sad he didn't stay a Met forever, but wish him well and I'm glad he ended up somewhere we can root for him without issue... Now lets just hope he finishes his career there and doesn't get traded in division or to the Yankees!!
It's very similar to what the Dodgers did prior to their run.
With Max FA next year and no real pitching prospect in sight this might be the last year they try to salvage the current roster.
Before you say Diaz, you can always move a elite closer mid season....
Or am I crazy to think this?
you are crazy. they had 5 guys get mvp votes last year, 4 are under 30, 4 made the all star game, and none of them were jdg. that 20% of the roster is still under contract for at least 2 years and doesnt even include scherzer. if they pivot and sign verlander he'd be #6.
they need young talent but their top 6 hitting prospects can hang with anyones top 6 and all could be at AA or higher next year.
those guys will have a better chance to succeed breaking in with guys like lindor, alonso, mcneil, marte around them.
they will need to buy pitchers for a while though while the farm builds up.
Maybe Zeigler, but who else has any real promise?
How many years do Verlander, Scherzer, and Bassitt have left?
They are all past their prime.
I like Magill and Peterson, but I don't think either one is a #1, or 2 in a rotation. Where will a new top of the order group of pitchers come from?
They're going to have to sign a bunch of mercenaries until they develop any kind of pitching, which isn't any time soon.
Leiter,Bradford, White and Ragans are very talented
One only needs to look at Mets in past multiple times to see how fleeting such prognostications can be.
By the time those pitchers are ready, DeGrom will likely be close to done and along with Semien and probably Seager too eating up a ton of payroll for little output for a few years. Rangers need to make sure they get some position prospects ASAP.
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Even if they sign Verlander and Bassitt, their staff will be getting even older, and as I understand it, there is not a lot in the minor leagues to make the pitching staff younger.
Maybe Zeigler, but who else has any real promise?
How many years do Verlander, Scherzer, and Bassitt have left?
They are all past their prime.
I like Magill and Peterson, but I don't think either one is a #1, or 2 in a rotation. Where will a new top of the order group of pitchers come from?
They're going to have to sign a bunch of mercenaries until they develop any kind of pitching, which isn't any time soon.
TTH, that's my concern also, I don't see any real good above average pitching in the pipeline any time soon. With the best hitting in the world, without the kind of pitching The Mets have usually had, things could get ugly.
For the last 7 or 8 years we've been spoiled, we've had really good pitchers that we could usually count on to deliver an exemplary game almosy weekly. Once Scherzer, Verlander and Bassitt are gone, in the next year or two, where will their replacements come from?
2. develop the crap out of guys like hamel, ziegler, tidwell, vasil, allan if he ever returns - and they need to keep adding 2-3 names to this list every draft like they did the last 2 drafts.
3. do what the LAD do and find some value guys who fit what they do and play up. they find 1 guy like anderson and gonsolin every year. it could be even be someone like taijuan walker coming back and just continuing to improve post-30 the way Wheeler did in PHI. Or signing Senga and having him way exceed expectations.
the 4th thing is more luck than anything else, but the same way JDG went from unknown overage prospect with arm troubles to all star, or cortes last year, they need to hope lightning strikes somewhere with someone like megill, or butto, or maybe even peterson.
i wanted to keep JDG and Scherzer together like everyone else but he chose to leave, and thankfully they have some not bad alternatives to choose from and probably close to $200m to spend over the best 2 guys they can get.
5m
Per @martinonyc, the Mets are looking to acquire two starting pitchers in each of these two categories:
Aces: Justin Verlander, Carlos Rodón
Mid-rotation: Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, Ross Stripling, Jose Quintana, Kodai Senga
bassitt is kind of a tweener of those 2 groups so will be interesting to see what happens with him. I'd have personally tried to get him signed and dumped Carrasco's $ because I think he's a full step above Carrasco and the price difference would have been worth it.
Like deGrom, Verlander would come with risks and rewards — he will turn 40 in February and returned from Tommy John surgery to produce a major-league-best 1.75 ERA in 175 innings while winning the AL Cy Young Award. But a deal for Verlander likely won’t command as much length. And like deGrom was to some extent, he would definitely be viewed as a risk worth taking. In comparing the two for a poll The Athletic published last week, one evaluator said, “My Plan A would be Verlander. He’s both an ace and a bulldog. He’s the better bet to make 28 starts.”
the one positive to losing some of the guys they may lose this offseason is comp picks. see below tweet for a hypothetical, im pretty sure every extra comp pick even down where they are due to lux tax penalties gets them somewhere around 750k in extra bonus pool money - which they can use to get themselves the equivalent of multiple top 30-50 players with their top 2-3 picks as they've done the last several years.
@FTLO_Baseball
My first preference is deGrom being a Met for life at all costs and it isn't close.
But plan B should take advantage of the Verlander, Taillon, Walker, Senga market, and accumulating/preserving draft/IFA capital.
Resign Nimmo, and potentially draft 1,2,3,3-comp,4,4-comp x2.
Doug @FTLO_Baseball
Nov 21
That's potentially 7 to 8 picks in the first 150 players, with a good bit of flexibility in pool space, and save 1M in IFA spending as well.
While factually accurate it's such a disingenuous statement..
1st year was Covid, he made every start and was one rough start away from a Cy Young
Then he missed 1 calendar year of baseball from July to July. If he has missed one full season instead the narrative would be so different.
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SNY Mets @SNY_Mets
5m
Per @martinonyc, the Mets are looking to acquire two starting pitchers in each of these two categories:
Aces: Justin Verlander, Carlos Rodón
Mid-rotation: Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, Ross Stripling, Jose Quintana, Kodai Senga
bassitt is kind of a tweener of those 2 groups so will be interesting to see what happens with him. I'd have personally tried to get him signed and dumped Carrabba's $ because I think he's a full step above Carrasco and the price difference would have been worth it.
2 starting pitchers in each category?? Does he mean 1 from each??
I'd of course prefer 2 from each...that's what they actually need. But I don't think it will happen.
If he signed the same contract with Mets, he would pay about 27 million more in state and city taxes over the life of the contract.
Mets would have had to offer around 5/215 to make the offers comparable and that's not even factoring in the higher cost of living in NY.
If there is a non-monetary factor, it's probably the direction the city has taken. But even then, he would be a Met if Stevie offered an amount that exceeded the Rangers, factoring in taxes but that obviously wasn't happening.
it's kind of hard to then argue against adding an extra 45m total more for 2 extra years.
and the longer contract would have actually lowered the AAV for lux tax purposes.
as we've learned with cespedes and wright, in the event of catastrophic injury the contract is insured. so the main risk of extra years is ineffectiveness more than injury, which is hard to imagine with JDG when he's throwing so hard they were trying to get him to throw easier to preserve his arm. if aging slows him down naturally, we know he can be effective 4-5 mph slower because that's what he was from basically 2014-2017.
so im not sure i buy that the mets wouldn't have matched the deal he got. so it really does seem a lot like syndergaard where jdg just wanted to leave even though he's going to a team that's likely less of a contender and didnt even give them a chance. between harvey's career getting torpedo'd by injury and the old regime kicking wheeler on the way out, maybe the well was just too far tainted to the point where they didn't even try to leverage more cash out of cohen then they got?
If he signed the same contract with Mets, he would pay about 27 million more in state and city taxes over the life of the contract.
Mets would have had to offer around 5/215 to make the offers comparable and that's not even factoring in the higher cost of living in NY.
If there is a non-monetary factor, it's probably the direction the city has taken. But even then, he would be a Met if Stevie offered an amount that exceeded the Rangers, factoring in taxes but that obviously wasn't happening.
if it was the money why not engage the mets before the deal was done and get some bidding?
the mets offer was reportedly 3 years 120m so while i agree they'd have had to go above texas to match the post-tax, i don't think it's as extreme as your suggesting because of the travel. JDG is going to play a lot of games against LAA and Oak getting taxed close to nyc.
I have a felling he would have made a lot more starts last year if he had financial security. I think once Mets did not give him a contract, he made a business decision not to push it.
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SNY Mets @SNY_Mets
5m
Per @martinonyc, the Mets are looking to acquire two starting pitchers in each of these two categories:
Aces: Justin Verlander, Carlos Rodón
Mid-rotation: Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, Ross Stripling, Jose Quintana, Kodai Senga
bassitt is kind of a tweener of those 2 groups so will be interesting to see what happens with him. I'd have personally tried to get him signed and dumped Carrabba's $ because I think he's a full step above Carrasco and the price difference would have been worth it.
2 starting pitchers in each category?? Does he mean 1 from each??
I'd of course prefer 2 from each...that's what they actually need. But I don't think it will happen.
i think they meant 1 from each. they already have Max/Carrasco so they aren't paying 6 SP 10m+.
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I don't buy he did not want to be here and instead wanted to move to Arlington to play for 70 win team.
If he signed the same contract with Mets, he would pay about 27 million more in state and city taxes over the life of the contract.
Mets would have had to offer around 5/215 to make the offers comparable and that's not even factoring in the higher cost of living in NY.
If there is a non-monetary factor, it's probably the direction the city has taken. But even then, he would be a Met if Stevie offered an amount that exceeded the Rangers, factoring in taxes but that obviously wasn't happening.
if it was the money why not engage the mets before the deal was done and get some bidding?
the mets offer was reportedly 3 years 120m so while i agree they'd have had to go above texas to match the post-tax, i don't think it's as extreme as your suggesting because of the travel. JDG is going to play a lot of games against LAA and Oak getting taxed close to nyc.
I did not factor in property taxes and cost of living, so I don't think 27 million is an overestimate. Now Texas has some other taxes but overall i think it is ballpark accurate to say the deal is worth 5 million more per season in Texas.
I do think Jake is a family man and probably somewhat conservative. So maybe he prefers Texas. But he was going to whoever paid the most.
Mets can't afford the risk of a five year deal
The idea that Jake could miss a large part of the season and come back and dominate proved false. Last five starts (including playoffs), he was not the Jake of old. 7 HRs allowed in 5 games.
Now they can get two starters to pair with Max, Carrasco, and DP.
And allows them to move Megill to pen.
Mets can't afford the risk of a five year deal
The idea that Jake could miss a large part of the season and come back and dominate proved false. Last five starts (including playoffs), he was not the Jake of old. 7 HRs allowed in 5 games.
Now they can get two starters to pair with Max, Carrasco, and DP.
And allows them to move Megill to pen.
DeGrom is not going to be again the best pitcher in baseball. Heck he isn’t even in top 10-15 anymore and it was somewhat debatable his last Cy Young win in NL 3 yrs ago whether he won more on previous rep from his prior years. Mets have a hole in their rotation but this was a really lucky escape for the Mets frankly and I think Met fans per usual are getting a little too sentimental which I respect. I’m glad he didn’t come back even on a 3 yr deal after seeing how terribly the Wright deal ended and caused various issues.
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In comment 15929336 Eric on Li said:
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SNY Mets @SNY_Mets
5m
Per @martinonyc, the Mets are looking to acquire two starting pitchers in each of these two categories:
Aces: Justin Verlander, Carlos Rodón
Mid-rotation: Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, Ross Stripling, Jose Quintana, Kodai Senga
bassitt is kind of a tweener of those 2 groups so will be interesting to see what happens with him. I'd have personally tried to get him signed and dumped Carrabba's $ because I think he's a full step above Carrasco and the price difference would have been worth it.
2 starting pitchers in each category?? Does he mean 1 from each??
I'd of course prefer 2 from each...that's what they actually need. But I don't think it will happen.
i think they meant 1 from each. they already have Max/Carrasco so they aren't paying 6 SP 10m+.
Yes I agree... just poor writing
I just don't think its enough.
I know it's only December 3rd but I just don't see how the Mets will be able to go into 2023 with a better roster on paper than they had going into 2022...
Meanwhile, the Phillies are going to add a superstar and the Braves starting roster just got naturally better with rookies turning into stars.
I suppose the Mets have to hope that a couple of Alvarez, Baty, Vientos, and Mauricio can do what Michael Harris and Vaughn Grissom did for the Braves... but Mets have no Spencer Strider waiting in the wings.
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In comment 15929348 moze1021 said:
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In comment 15929336 Eric on Li said:
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SNY Mets @SNY_Mets
5m
Per @martinonyc, the Mets are looking to acquire two starting pitchers in each of these two categories:
Aces: Justin Verlander, Carlos Rodón
Mid-rotation: Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, Ross Stripling, Jose Quintana, Kodai Senga
bassitt is kind of a tweener of those 2 groups so will be interesting to see what happens with him. I'd have personally tried to get him signed and dumped Carrabba's $ because I think he's a full step above Carrasco and the price difference would have been worth it.
2 starting pitchers in each category?? Does he mean 1 from each??
I'd of course prefer 2 from each...that's what they actually need. But I don't think it will happen.
i think they meant 1 from each. they already have Max/Carrasco so they aren't paying 6 SP 10m+.
Yes I agree... just poor writing
I just don't think its enough.
I know it's only December 3rd but I just don't see how the Mets will be able to go into 2023 with a better roster on paper than they had going into 2022...
Meanwhile, the Phillies are going to add a superstar and the Braves starting roster just got naturally better with rookies turning into stars.
I suppose the Mets have to hope that a couple of Alvarez, Baty, Vientos, and Mauricio can do what Michael Harris and Vaughn Grissom did for the Braves... but Mets have no Spencer Strider waiting in the wings.
Can’t really buy your way into success in modern MLB. Mets fans need to hope they nail the revitalization of the system/minors.
Really hope they can turn into huge plays in the International market. Would be great use of Cohens money.
It's very similar to what the Dodgers did prior to their run.
With Max FA next year and no real pitching prospect in sight this might be the last year they try to salvage the current roster.
Before you say Diaz, you can always move a elite closer mid season....
Or am I crazy to think this?
Estas MUCHO loco.
last year all of Baty, Mauricio, Alvarez, and Vientos were among the leaders in extra base hits at AA and up. All hit extra base hits at a higher rate than anyone on the mets except Alonso.
when Baty, Alvarez, and Vientos got called up, even in their small samples their exit velocity numbers were each the highest on the team.
counting his current run in the winter leagues, Mauricio has more extra base hits in his last 161 games than all but a few MLB players - Austin Riley led the NL with 79 last year, Mauricio has 75, and that obviously doesn't count his 28 SBs most of which are effectively turning 1b --> 2b.
18h
In 161 games this year (AA / DOWL), Mauricio has 40 2B, 5 3B, and 30 HR, along with 28/41 SB.
A nominal improvement in his plate discipline could turn this kid into a star.
lindor (29), alonso (27), mcneil (30) are part of the present and hopefully the future as well. there is no excuse to not get the latter 2 extended this offseason. if the organization made a mistake with degrom it was probably not tearing up his contract first thing when cohen took over to make him a met for life when they had the leverage. same with not getting nimmo extended before he changed to boras.
but as good as that group of homegrown guys was here the future of this organization is this next crop of minor leaguers, and this next group is by far the most promising group they've produced.
$37 Million a year so they can pull him after he gives up his first hit of the game in the sixth inning.
Next interesting watch is Nimmo but again if years and money are really high he can walk too. He’s had a real small sample size of success and I don’t believe in his defense holding up nor offensive consistency over a 5 yr period. Mets are going to pay Alonso on long term and Mets can’t keep loading anchor contracts no matter how much money Cohen has.
Eppler has his work cut out for him on both ML level (there’s bullpen needs too) and the minors as I don’t like his track record with Angels in that regard.
last year all of Baty, Mauricio, Alvarez, and Vientos were among the leaders in extra base hits at AA and up. All hit extra base hits at a higher rate than anyone on the mets except Alonso.
when Baty, Alvarez, and Vientos got called up, even in their small samples their exit velocity numbers were each the highest on the team.
counting his current run in the winter leagues, Mauricio has more extra base hits in his last 161 games than all but a few MLB players - Austin Riley led the NL with 79 last year, Mauricio has 75, and that obviously doesn't count his 28 SBs most of which are effectively turning 1b --> 2b.
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Just Dan now @usedtobedan
18h
In 161 games this year (AA / DOWL), Mauricio has 40 2B, 5 3B, and 30 HR, along with 28/41 SB.
A nominal improvement in his plate discipline could turn this kid into a star.
lindor (29), alonso (27), mcneil (30) are part of the present and hopefully the future as well. there is no excuse to not get the latter 2 extended this offseason. if the organization made a mistake with degrom it was probably not tearing up his contract first thing when cohen took over to make him a met for life when they had the leverage. same with not getting nimmo extended before he changed to boras.
but as good as that group of homegrown guys was here the future of this organization is this next crop of minor leaguers, and this next group is by far the most promising group they've produced.
this is why - and I get it - this concept seems bizarre to most fans and they gasp and say I'm crazy or whatever - but this is why you trade Alonso now, before he needs an extension.
Yes, his bat is prodigious. But he is the most replaceable of any star and he is how you fill the pitching void.
If you can flip Alonso for someone's Spencer Strider and fill the Alonso void with a low cost option like Vientos or Baty for example defense is probably a wash at worst and even if you come up a little short on the offense (questionable) you can likely survive and then you can put that Alonso money into pitching and the team is more balanced, younger, and built more long-term.
Seems like these guys - Baty and Vientos specifically have defense concerns and Mauricio is likely moving off SS to either another IF position or I guess an OF spot, but point is 1B can become a logjam and that doesn't even consider it would be good for Alvarez to get some reps there to keep his bat in games if he needs to be lifted for late game defense behind the plate and you want someone else at DH.
Anyway, I know it's bizarre to most people and it's not that I don't value Pete - I do, I just think what he brings is replaceable at a good enough level it would help the team long-term.
buster doesn't have the best track record, but chris young running things like a pitcher and who knows maybe this was something they talked about with jdg? mccann did have a reputation of some SP really liking throwing to him.
@Buster_ESPN
As the Rangers look to build around Jacob deGrom, they could explore a deal with the Mets for James McCann, a veteran catcher widely known to be available. McCann is owed $24 million over the next two years, and the Mets could shed at least some of that salary.
also notable:
@Buster_ESPN
Replying to @JuniorJrSrIV
James McCann has caught 12 of deGrom's starts, 75 2/3 innings, and in that time, deGrom has a 1.67 ERA, with 114 strikeouts and 9 walks. You could look it up.
i assume the mets would give him away for basically any savings they can get.
and from the met side, i think pitchers are so much riskier assets health wise even if you got offered an equivalent one it's still risky.
i am a believer in lineup quality lifting everyone in that lineup, and alonso's bat in the lineup is going to help everyone around him - especially baty/alvarez/vientos/etc as they break in.
but if the brewers firesale is legit and lets say there was a 3 team deal out there where alonso goes to team 3, prospects go to milwaukee, and corbin burnes comes to the mets you have to consider it. though ultimately id rather just give up 1 or 2 of the top 6 prospects than alonso and make that a 2 team trade. or better just sign verlander for 2 or 3 years and give up nothing except cohen cash.
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Rangers might want to trade for McCann apparently. Yes please!!!
buster doesn't have the best track record, but chris young running things like a pitcher and who knows maybe this was something they talked about with jdg? mccann did have a reputation of some SP really liking throwing to him.
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Buster Olney
@Buster_ESPN
As the Rangers look to build around Jacob deGrom, they could explore a deal with the Mets for James McCann, a veteran catcher widely known to be available. McCann is owed $24 million over the next two years, and the Mets could shed at least some of that salary.
also notable:
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Buster Olney
@Buster_ESPN
Replying to @JuniorJrSrIV
James McCann has caught 12 of deGrom's starts, 75 2/3 innings, and in that time, deGrom has a 1.67 ERA, with 114 strikeouts and 9 walks. You could look it up.
i assume the mets would give him away for basically any savings they can get.
LOL. Man, Mets should jump all over that right away.
If an aging Beltran could get Wheeler back from a team making a post-season push, who knows maybe Alonso gets back a 23-year old up-and-coming pitching prospect, cost controlled for the next 6 years (IOW some other team's Spencer Strider).
doesn't have to be that exact trade, but something like that.
I know its unpopular but I think it makes sense.
as it happens value wise whatever alonso's 2 years of control returns (an olsen type package) should actually be pretty close to whatever Burnes' 2 years of control return. so that seems a very realistic hypothetical. Burnes is projected to get 11m in arb so it's not even crazy to think the brewers might consider a straight swap since it's close to even salary.
but ultimately if that deal were offered id pass because id rather give alonso an olsen extension, and then either trade that type of prospect package for burnes or sign a FA and keep the prospects. Rodon has been almost as good the last 2 years and he's just 2 years older. verlander is probably an even bet to match him in the next 2 years even though he'll be more expensive.
unless there is something they dont like about alonso in the clubhouse, or he's unwilling to be reasonable to extend, i just dont see any reason to trade alonso now. at midseason if vientos, alvarez, and baty are all mashing and they need to find more playing time and alonso still hasn't extended, then it becomes a lot more palatable.
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outside of Lindor and maybe extension to Alonso or McNeil. Mets are close to a sell/rebuild.
It's very similar to what the Dodgers did prior to their run.
With Max FA next year and no real pitching prospect in sight this might be the last year they try to salvage the current roster.
Before you say Diaz, you can always move a elite closer mid season....
Or am I crazy to think this?
you are crazy. they had 5 guys get mvp votes last year, 4 are under 30, 4 made the all star game, and none of them were jdg. that 20% of the roster is still under contract for at least 2 years and doesnt even include scherzer. if they pivot and sign verlander he'd be #6.
they need young talent but their top 6 hitting prospects can hang with anyones top 6 and all could be at AA or higher next year.
I get that and Ill retract my statement but I based it on pitching. We really don't have a stud prospect coming up at this time and you need 2 of them to be playoff caliber.
If an aging Beltran could get Wheeler back from a team making a post-season push, who knows maybe Alonso gets back a 23-year old up-and-coming pitching prospect, cost controlled for the next 6 years (IOW some other team's Spencer Strider).
doesn't have to be that exact trade, but something like that.
I know its unpopular but I think it makes sense.
Alonso is not getting the best picture prospect in baseball. Balt doesn't want to pay anyone either. Sorry but it's a bad idea.
@genymets
NEWS: According to @martinonyc
, the #Mets are determined to sign either Justin Verlander or Carlos Rodon.
Additionally, they will acquire a mid-rotation starter. "Some of the main options in that category are Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, and Jose Quintana." #LGM
- 5th in CY voting in 2021 (132 innings, 2.37 era, 2.65 fip, 185 k's, 36 walks, 13 homers allowed)
- 6th in CY voting in 2022 (178 innings, 2.88 era, 2.25 fip, 237 k's, 52 walks, 12 homers allowed)
Verlander, entering age 40 season, projected contract 3x120m (mlbtr)
- won CY in 2019 (223 innings, 2.58 era, 3.27 fip, 300 k's, 42 walks, 36 homers allowed)
- won CY in 2022 (175 innings, 1.75 era, 2.49 fip, 185 k's, 29 walks, 12 homers allowed)
(out 2020/2021 TJS)
Rodon costs a pick so while the youth and lower AAV is appealing, the short term upside, pedigree, and future assets probably favor Verlander. both come with durability risks.
@genymets
NEWS: According to @martinonyc
, the #Mets are determined to sign either Justin Verlander or Carlos Rodon.
Additionally, they will acquire a mid-rotation starter. "Some of the main options in that category are Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Taijuan Walker, and Jose Quintana." #LGM
How are they putting Kyle Gibson in same category with those guys?? He can't hold Walkers jockstrap..
I'd rather have Thor back over Kyle freaking Gibson
mcneil
marte
judge
alonso
lindor
pretty sure that's the best top 5 in baseball and you have DH, C, 3B, and 1 OF spot basically open for Baty, Vientos, Alvarez, Mauricio to transition in over the next couple years.
- 5th in CY voting in 2021 (132 innings, 2.37 era, 2.65 fip, 185 k's, 36 walks, 13 homers allowed)
- 6th in CY voting in 2022 (178 innings, 2.88 era, 2.25 fip, 237 k's, 52 walks, 12 homers allowed)
Verlander, entering age 40 season, projected contract 3x120m (mlbtr)
- won CY in 2019 (223 innings, 2.58 era, 3.27 fip, 300 k's, 42 walks, 36 homers allowed)
- won CY in 2022 (175 innings, 1.75 era, 2.49 fip, 185 k's, 29 walks, 12 homers allowed)
(out 2020/2021 TJS)
Rodon costs a pick so while the youth and lower AAV is appealing, the short term upside, pedigree, and future assets probably favor Verlander. both come with durability risks.
Neither ideal... I think it's a coin toss. I guess go with whoever has better numbers vs Phillies and Braves players?
mcneil
marte
judge
alonso
lindor
pretty sure that's the best top 5 in baseball and you have DH, C, 3B, and 1 OF spot basically open for Baty, Vientos, Alvarez, Mauricio to transition in over the next couple years.
Yes I'm down with that... Then work the trade market mid season for starting pitching if needed
So maybe a 2-year deal for Verlander.
then it has to be a youth movement of some type if your top 2 SPs are over 40.
I still feel like though they need another mid-level starter even if they add Verlander and Walker. Plus with 2 starters 40 years old or greater, the 6th - 8th starters IMO take on even more importance than normal (and those #6 - #8 starting pitchers are unfortunately always important)
.284 avg (would be behind only mcneil, marte)
.394 obp (highest on mets)
.583 slg (highest on mets)
+61 DRS in the OF
entering his age 31 but bc he's a freak at 6'7 282 you have to think maybe he could continue to hit for a long time. in the last 6 years his lowest season RC was 140. Manny and Ortiz hit into their late 30's.
putting him behind mcneil and marte
with alonso and lindor protecting
i cant think of any modern era lineup better than that.
McNeil - RF
Marte - CF
Lindor - SS
Alonso - 1b
Baty - 3b
Alvarez - c
Mauricio- 2b
Vientos - DH
Cannha - LF
I know 4 rookies in a row, but I believe if you let them stay in the lineup 4-6 weeks at least 3 will mash. Defense be dammed. With the pitching next year, they are going to need runs.
@genymets
·
3m
NEWS: According to @JonHeyman
, the #Mets are “in on” Jameson Taillon.
Taillon is expected to get a very good contract in this starting pitching market. #LGM
As for Judge, I doubt 6' 7'' guys 280 lbs are meant to last long in BB.
The only thing guaranteed with DeGrom and judge is they will be out a lot. At 40 million a year its a cost of $250,000 each game they sit out.
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instead of nimmo and a top tier SP, do you give Judge 41m and then just sign depth pitchers like bassitt and senga while loading up in the BP?
mcneil
marte
judge
alonso
lindor
pretty sure that's the best top 5 in baseball and you have DH, C, 3B, and 1 OF spot basically open for Baty, Vientos, Alvarez, Mauricio to transition in over the next couple years.
Yes I'm down with that... Then work the trade market mid season for starting pitching if needed
Actually if they don't bring back Nimmo then you almost have to go after Judge or one of the big SSs..
McNeil - RF
Marte - CF
Lindor - SS
Alonso - 1b
Baty - 3b
Alvarez - c
Mauricio- 2b
Vientos - DH
Cannha - LF
I know 4 rookies in a row, but I believe if you let them stay in the lineup 4-6 weeks at least 3 will mash. Defense be dammed. With the pitching next year, they are going to need runs.
Mauricio hasn't played 2b or 3b in mets org yet, so i think it's likely he starts in AA to get on track at one or the other, then moves up to AAA and is more of an option midseason or if a spot opens up. he only turns 22 in April.
Baty is imo the best bet to win a spot right away. I think has a role mixing in with Canha in LF and Escobar at 3b. Think of that as him replacing Naquin's roster spot.
Vientos can obviously take Ruf's roster spot, but unless he has a big ST it may make sense to have him start in AAA because he is always a slow starter.
Alvarez is a wild card - maybe he wins starting catcher or maybe they want him to start in AAA to work on some defense.
but if you look at this year's final 26 man in the SD series this is how i see it:
Catchers
Francisco Álvarez
Tomás Nido
James McCann
Infielders
Pete Alonso
Eduardo Escobar
Luis Guillorme
Francisco Lindor
Jeff McNeil
Daniel Vogelbach
Outfielders
Mark Canha
Terrance Gore --> baty (path to win roster spot)
Starling Marte
Brandon Nimmo (or external CF judge, bellinger, trade)
Darin Ruf --> vientos (path to win roster spot)
i don't think vogelbach's spot is set in stone but id guess he's back because he's cheap and a nice backstop at DH if all the kids start slow. there's a chance they trade him for something they need more though, like maybe a CF if they miss on the FAs.
Also dont think any of the rookies will be guaranteed spots, they will likely bring in some ST invite vet types to compete for those spots but be easy enough to cut when the time comes to elevate the kids.
his WL team requested it and the Mets approved it.
i still think they would be smart to try him in CF which was also suggested by Law last year. his XBH upside in CF would be huge, and his path to the majors gets a lot clearer. even if he settles into a corner the spots are there with Marte getting older and Canha having 1 year left.
For front office that has never won anything, the level of arrogance is incredible.
Here's what Law noted:
Using last year's FA as a guide the price per starting pitchers one win above replacement was worth $5,430,383.41.
So a JDG 7 fwar season = 38m of value per year, and hey! imagine that almost exactly what TEX is paying him!
note- he has only produced to that level twice in his career. His best year (2018) he was worth 9 fwar and his second best year (2019) he was worth 6.9 fwar. those were his b2b CYs. since he has continued to pitch at a near elite level even if infrequently, i think this is a fair aggressive projection.
so basically the whole contract comes down to how many of the 5 years you think JDG can accomplish that feat. Law seems overly bearish (imo) projecting JDG to make only 60 starts over the deal. 12 per year if he plays all 5 years or 15 per year if he misses 1 full year due to whatever.
the mets were willing to gamble on 3 (or maybe even 4) years presumably hoping they'd be contenders with or without him but hopefully have him in top form help them win a WS in 1 of them even if the total contract ended up under water.
texas is in a different position where they need JDG to carry them forward. that seems like a very risky bet and unless he ages like Verlander, it's tough to see it paying off.
Law: Rangers strike gold with Jacob deGrom. Is it the fool’s variety? - ( New Window )
I am sad that Degrom is leaving. I still remeber him in the their Word Series run. Syndergarrd was a good pitcher too, he probably still is. That young class of Mets pitchers from 2015 was very exciting with even Gsellman; even though he looked like the least promising of them all.
Reactions To Losing DeGrom - ( New Window )
As I think about DeGrom leaving vs Seaver leaving, I guess Seaver didn't want to leave, and cried when he heard that he had been traded. DeGrom however, wanted to leave.
i think it was an era that just cursed from the beginning. harvey's initial TJS, the wilponzis spending no money on the team around them, all the injuries in 17/18, wheeler finally coming back and reaches his potential and wilponzis didnt even try to extend him, last year matz and syndergaard leave cohen at the alter, this year jdg does the same.
it's not like it's only the mets, the dodgers probably have their own version of "pitchers break" with buehler and may.
but knowing now that all of the rumors of JDGs unhappiness here the last couple years, it's hard to imagine a world where that wasn't noticed by others in the clubhouse or at least on his mind. like others have said its good he made his decision while other options were still on the table.
deGrom came along later, and Noah and Zack obviously were acquired via trade but watching Matt Harvey make his debut and subsequent starts was must-watch sports at a time when we went a few years as fans without that.
And he seemed to love NY (maybe too much, lol), but he seemed like he had pride playing for the Mets.
The rest, and specifically deGrom had more success and was on a HOF trajectory, but personally, as much as I admired his on-field performances I never felt like he gave a shit about the name of the front of his jersey. He seemed kind of aloof.
deGrom came along later, and Noah and Zack obviously were acquired via trade but watching Matt Harvey make his debut and subsequent starts was must-watch sports at a time when we went a few years as fans without that.
And he seemed to love NY (maybe too much, lol), but he seemed like he had pride playing for the Mets.
The rest, and specifically deGrom had more success and was on a HOF trajectory, but personally, as much as I admired his on-field performances I never felt like he gave a shit about the name of the front of his jersey. He seemed kind of aloof.
agreed. i rewatched this 2013 harvey video at the beginning of last year around the time he was testifying in the skaggs case and getting suspended and thinking back to that time period with where his career specifically ended up was sad (maybe even sadder than doc). i too dont really have much of an emotional reaction to degrom leaving bc aloof is exactly the right word, but the downfall of harvey is still a gut punch.
Matt Harvey Asks New Yorkers About Matt Harvey - ( New Window )
7h
After three more hits last night, Mets prospect Ronny Mauricio has played 162 games this season between Double-A and Dominican Winter League:
41 doubles, 4 triples, 30 home runs, 118 RBIs, 28 SB
But also 32 BB/158 K
Amed Rosario age 21 (AAA vegas) 162 game pace:
32 doubles, 12 triples, 12 home runs, 99 RBIs, 32 SB
39 BB / 114 K
Rosario hit .324, Mauricio is somewhere around .275 i think.
Rosario has turned himself into a pretty good player with CLE even though he's never walked more than 31 times in a year. Mauricio's bat to ball skills look a little riskier but also a lot more power.
Yeah despite a HoF rate of production the Mets only managed to win 54% of the games deGrom started. It was a weird run - should’ve been a lot better.
mlbtr predicted 8 years 332m, so that generally seems like the ballpark. supposedly Yankees have offered 8x300m.
dont think it's likely but it's kind of hard for me to justify paying choosing a SP over Judge if the price is close and they can just bring back Bassitt.
Rosenthal: Aaron Judge’s contract likely to be for nine years, sources say - ( New Window )
I am sad that Degrom is leaving. I still remeber him in the their Word Series run. Syndergarrd was a good pitcher too, he probably still is. That young class of Mets pitchers from 2015 was very exciting with even Gsellman; even though he looked like the least promising of them all.
Lol, creeping into a Mets thread to clearly just to continue your crusade against Daniel Jones is pretty sad.
Where Does Jacob deGrom Rank in Mets History? - ( New Window )
deGrom maybe have had better statistical seasons especially considering the era deGrom pitched in was different, and he was obviously elite, but Gooden's mix of heat and knee buckling curve was the best I have ever seen.
I sometimes waffle and say peak Pedro was as good as Gooden but I still give the nod to Doc.
So Doc is #1 for me in Mets lore, and he didn't have a very long peak.
I take Jake. All day
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they each had a mix of good and bad in the clutch but more good than bad.
I take Jake. All day
No contest, DeGrom; but Seaver was the best.
Syndergaard had the WS game and Wild Card start. both dominant.
Harvey had game 5 which should/would have been an all time clutch Met start if Duda didn't throw a ball away.
This may be recency bias because of how this year ended and the fact that he just walked. i assume he would have been the same deadly cyborg in the 2018-2020 postseasons as he was in the regular seasons if he got there and i dont blame him for the wilponzis. just another unfortunate end in a chapter of them from all of them.
I am too young to remember peak Doc live... I remember the Tuffy Rhodes era Doc, lol
I will always love Noah but I'd say Dark Knight and JDG both a couple levels above him..
Quote:
In comment 15930011 Eric on Li said:
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they each had a mix of good and bad in the clutch but more good than bad.
I take Jake. All day
No contest, DeGrom; but Seaver was the best.
Agree!
.284 avg (would be behind only mcneil, marte)
.394 obp (highest on mets)
.583 slg (highest on mets)
+61 DRS in the OF
entering his age 31 but bc he's a freak at 6'7 282 you have to think maybe he could continue to hit for a long time. in the last 6 years his lowest season RC was 140. Manny and Ortiz hit into their late 30's.
putting him behind mcneil and marte
with alonso and lindor protecting
i cant think of any modern era lineup better than that.
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forget last year's outburst, here are his career numbers:
.284 avg (would be behind only mcneil, marte)
.394 obp (highest on mets)
.583 slg (highest on mets)
+61 DRS in the OF
entering his age 31 but bc he's a freak at 6'7 282 you have to think maybe he could continue to hit for a long time. in the last 6 years his lowest season RC was 140. Manny and Ortiz hit into their late 30's.
putting him behind mcneil and marte
with alonso and lindor protecting
i cant think of any modern era lineup better than that.
Couldn't you find different examples? Manny and Ortiz were both examples of better living through chemistry.
fair point, but when a guy is such an outlier athletically he already has biology on his side. how about cabrera?
My answer was in response to which Met pitcher was the best. And my answer was, of the pitchers I have seen, it was Gooden and in my response I wanted to make the point that prime Doc Gooden had the best stuff I'd ever seen, for any franchise. period. The only pitcher who I witnessed in the discussion with Doc is Pedro - peak Pedro.
the fact Pedro later joined the Mets well after his prime seems like it was confusing to some people.
My apologies.
b) Rodon (30m), Nimmo (25m), Bassitt (20m), comp pick penalty for rodon, no new comp picks gained
c) Judge (40m), Bassitt (20m), Walker or Senga (15m), comp pick penalty for judge, comp pick gained for nimmo
scenario A is the most short term investment of $ but the most future assets gained in prospect capital.
scenario B is a medium term 3-5 year investment window but the least prospect capital gained.
scenario C is the biggest future outlay with Judge likely getting 8 or 9 years, but less $ risked on risky SPs and middle road on comp picks gained/lost.
all 3 scenarios would bring them just over $300m on straight per year averages but they can bring that down for LTT purposes with deferments. There are some trades that might be able to maneuver them a little lower if necessary. mccann to texas and dumping ruf's 3m could possibly net them 5-10m in savings. maybe even try to dump off Carrasco's 1 year 14m and replace him with someone cheaper (like Trevor Williams).
b) Rodon (30m), Nimmo (25m), Bassitt (20m), comp pick penalty for rodon, no new comp picks gained
c) Judge (40m), Bassitt (20m), Walker or Senga (15m), comp pick penalty for judge, comp pick gained for nimmo
scenario A is the most short term investment of $ but the most future assets gained in prospect capital.
scenario B is a medium term 3-5 year investment window but the least prospect capital gained.
scenario C is the biggest future outlay with Judge likely getting 8 or 9 years, but less $ risked on risky SPs and middle road on comp picks gained/lost.
all 3 scenarios would bring them just over $300m on straight per year averages but they can bring that down for LTT purposes with deferments. There are some trades that might be able to maneuver them a little lower if necessary. mccann to texas and dumping ruf's 3m could possibly net them 5-10m in savings. maybe even try to dump off Carrasco's 1 year 14m and replace him with someone cheaper (like Trevor Williams).
I want no parts of Bellinger. So that removes scenario A. I think scenario B is more realistic and better than scenario C. Frankly any comp picks gained in the fourth round shouldn’t make a difference in the evaluation.
you tell us. lol.
@Braves_Rumors
·
14h
A couple big Braves rumors coming out today:
#Braves turned down 6-year/$140M request from Dansby’s camp
#Braves made a strong push for Bryan Reynolds early this off-season and are expected to be among the top bidders now that his trade request has become public
Quote:
a) Verlander (40m), Bellinger (20m), Walker or Senga (15m), no comp pick penalties, max comp picks gained
b) Rodon (30m), Nimmo (25m), Bassitt (20m), comp pick penalty for rodon, no new comp picks gained
c) Judge (40m), Bassitt (20m), Walker or Senga (15m), comp pick penalty for judge, comp pick gained for nimmo
scenario A is the most short term investment of $ but the most future assets gained in prospect capital.
scenario B is a medium term 3-5 year investment window but the least prospect capital gained.
scenario C is the biggest future outlay with Judge likely getting 8 or 9 years, but less $ risked on risky SPs and middle road on comp picks gained/lost.
all 3 scenarios would bring them just over $300m on straight per year averages but they can bring that down for LTT purposes with deferments. There are some trades that might be able to maneuver them a little lower if necessary. mccann to texas and dumping ruf's 3m could possibly net them 5-10m in savings. maybe even try to dump off Carrasco's 1 year 14m and replace him with someone cheaper (like Trevor Williams).
I want no parts of Bellinger. So that removes scenario A. I think scenario B is more realistic and better than scenario C. Frankly any comp picks gained in the fourth round shouldn’t make a difference in the evaluation.
the round of the comp picks doesn't matter - its the bonus pool $. each additional pick is roughly an extra $750k. So 2 comp picks = 1.5m they can spend going overslot to turn their 2nd/3rd round picks into the equivalent of first round talents.
and there's also IFA money they don't lose.
conservatively i think the difference between gaining the maximum comp picks and the penalties for losing $ is approximately 2 top 10 prospects gained or lost (with median outcomes being more like 1 top 10 prospect gained or lost).
they could just as easily flip some prospects to AZ for whichever extra CF'er they decide to trade. Or put Canha/Marte in CF with McNeil or Baty in LF. i dont think reynolds is a great fit for the mets given the expected cost but there are others out there on the trade market who could be. Kike Hernandez is someone id be interested in whose value should be either neutral or slightly under water.
@Braves_Rumors
·
14h
A couple big Braves rumors coming out today:
#Braves turned down 6-year/$140M request from Dansby’s camp
#Braves made a strong push for Bryan Reynolds early this off-season and are expected to be among the top bidders now that his trade request has become public
that seemed low but looking up the projections it's not so far off. MLBTR predicted Seven years $154MM.
@martinonyc
Mets continued talks wVerlander yesterday. Also they tried to close a deal w Jameson Taillon over last few days but weren’t able to. Huge market for Taillon and with Verlander top priority, wouldn’t be surprised if JT ends up elsewhere Active all over pitching market. Rodon too
Andy Martino @martinonyc
4h
Verlander said to be doing his own background work on the Mets yesterday, too,
Sources: Mets, Justin Verlander talks continue through weekend - ( New Window )