The USMNT back line has always been suspect but the play today has been much worse than the abilities of these players. ROobinson has made a couple of key mistakes.
Why they didn’t start Cameron Carter-Vickers. He was great against Iran. But whatever, who needs defense.
Same.
It will be interesting to see if GB is retained. Probably getting through Group will be deemed enough, but we really got exposed in this game.
I don’t follow closely enough to know what makes a good coach. But the story of the game here was very obvious breakdowns. Should US national team players be leaving players this wide open on defense? Is that on their talent or is that on coaching? I don’t know.
Why they didn’t start Cameron Carter-Vickers. He was great against Iran. But whatever, who needs defense.
Same.
It will be interesting to see if GB is retained. Probably getting through Group will be deemed enough, but we really got exposed in this game.
I don’t follow closely enough to know what makes a good coach. But the story of the game here was very obvious breakdowns. Should US national team players be leaving players this wide open on defense? Is that on their talent or is that on coaching? I don’t know.
No they shouldn't, at least not at the relatively top levels of the sport. If you watch the PL for example, rarely do you see 3 goals in one game that easy really. Hard to say who's at fault without watching closer. Could be the defensive shape, and the coaching not adjusting to how NED was attacking. Could be they did but the players had mental/physical breakdowns and screwed up. That last goal looked to me like a player mistake, just the way the other defenders reacted. The other 2 goals its tougher to tell.
But the Neth's 3 goals had the same symptom; wide open man in the middle of the penalty area. Especially going down 2-0 just seconds before the half. That to me is on coaching. Attention to detail, marking guys is not a new idea. Does that make Berhalter a bad coach? No. But better teams will make you pay for mistakes. Just like in football (our football). We made more mistakes than our opponents.
We have been exposed for our inability to finish and our struggles to defend in the box. Last goal seemed destined with US looking a little panicky. Hate to be a pessimist but barring something extraordinary or lucky this game is over.
That was this game in a nutshell. Was watching with my pop. He was cursing the right back out at the end of the game, lol.
But the Neth's 3 goals had the same symptom; wide open man in the middle of the penalty area. Especially going down 2-0 just seconds before the half. That to me is on coaching. Attention to detail, marking guys is not a new idea. Does that make Berhalter a bad coach? No. But better teams will make you pay for mistakes. Just like in football (our football). We made more mistakes than our opponents.
Not a Berhalter fan but the fault lies mostly on the players. Disappointing to see Adams get back late on the first goal.Dest Defensive lapses have been his biggest weakness. There’s a reason why Xavi wanted him out at Barca without a natural RB on the squad when Dest departed.
The third goal was horrible, but I’ll also chalk that up to goal chasing leaving us exposed and tired legs. We don’t give that up on a lead or tied.
Dutch can just wait for the US to pass it around with no threat and let the midfield and fullbacks tire themselves out. Lack of any type of goal scorer threat at forward has killed the team through 4 games.
+1
RE: RE: It’s incredible to me that the USMNT has never had a WC striker
So hard to be impactful in box without one
The problem for the USMNT is that we have sucked at set pieces which use to be our strength
Also not having Miles Robinson at center back was a problem on set pieces
US has never been able to produce an undeniable superstar striker. A Lukaku, a Saleh, A CR.
When we do, it will change the entire landscape of US soccer.
This is the next phase that needs to be developed.
I wonder if that's where the big three sports hit US soccer the hardest. If you have size, speed, and athleticism you're probably growing up playing another sport.
It’s skill, touch, ball control in short areas, and knack. The size, speed, athleticism doesn’t play [i]as much [\i] in soccer, imho as triangle numbers.
It’s skill, touch, ball control in short areas, and knack. The size, speed, athleticism doesn’t play [i]as much [\i] in soccer, imho as triangle numbers.
+1 This is correct. Some people will argue that strikers are born, not made. Gotta mine the talent that is here that is being left alone.
It’s skill, touch, ball control in short areas, and knack. The size, speed, athleticism doesn’t play [i]as much [\i] in soccer, imho as triangle numbers.
What's your take on why the US has little to show there, but not at midfielder?
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
I wonder if that's where the big three sports hit US soccer the hardest. If you have size, speed, and athleticism you're probably growing up playing another sport.
Soccer doesn't compete directly with the other major US sports for athletes, you can get someone 5'7" as the top player in the game which doesn't happen in other sports.
RE: Good general summary IMO from the ESPN Soccer guy
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
On each of the three goals, the scorer didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him. You let players run free in the box and you get burned.
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
Thought this short video was interesting, and spot on, too. Short Coaching Analysis - ( New Window )
Exactly.
RE: RE: RE: Good general summary IMO from the ESPN Soccer guy
Thought this short video was interesting, and spot on, too. Short Coaching Analysis - ( New Window ) /////
Exactly.
Optimus, we agree, full stop. As said earlier in week, I'm not a charter member of GBFC. But I think there is a bit here maybe to analogize to Mike Kafka's problems in designing an O around the roster's limitations. Our MF is our strongest group, full stop. You have to try to ride them, and we got some play from the overlaps. Our central defenders are, along with Fs, our weakest group. Could we have sat back and countered, vs Virgil and Blind, et al.? Play the possession game when we are so weak inside the opponent's 18? No striker worth the name. No height. No set piece threats.
Our starting 11 and next couple subs, we need much more, some pieces, for sure, but much more is needed.
Here's a link to the Argentina-Australia game starting now:
This should be a break-out game for them against an opponent that they are flat out better than. Let's see how this plays out. Gotta think Argentina is gonna win here sans any drama.
RE: RE: Good general summary IMO from the ESPN Soccer guy
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
Thought this short video was interesting, and spot on, too. Short Coaching Analysis - ( New Window )
Agree with both the quoted text and the video. "Naive" was a good word by the commentator in the video. GB's coaching today to me was "aspirational" - this is what we would do if we could actually do it - rather than pragmatic - this is how we win this particular game. Against England we played a 4-4-2 and that worked well defensively. Against Iran we played Carter-Vickers and that worked well defensively. Today we were terrible defensively, and I think that's at least partly on GB relying so heavily on a 3-man midfield and the fullbacks going forward. It created easy counterattacks down the middle where we were out of good defensive shape, and in each case an unmarked Dutch guy scored.
"The #USMNT didn't adapt, they didn't adjust, we made our tactical plan based on [targeting the flanks]."
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
"The #USMNT didn't adapt, they didn't adjust, we made our tactical plan based on [targeting the flanks]."
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
I think skill level is much better than past iterations of usmnt, but we still lack any truly world class players. This has to be next. Until we can find one or two of those, a Messi, Modric, Saleh, Mbappe, Lewandowski... we'll be unable to crack the top tier.
"The #USMNT didn't adapt, they didn't adjust, we made our tactical plan based on [targeting the flanks]."
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
It's true. While I understand strategizing around a roster's given limitations, it still doesn't exonerate Berhalter from adjusting. We need to develop players who are skilled with the ball and can finish when around the goal. I don't want him here after this World Cup.
"The #USMNT didn't adapt, they didn't adjust, we made our tactical plan based on [targeting the flanks]."
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
It's true. While I understand strategizing around a roster's given limitations, it still doesn't exonerate Berhalter from adjusting. We need to develop players who are skilled with the ball and can finish when around the goal. I don't want him here after this World Cup.
His contract expires at the end of this month. It will be very interesting to see what happens. His argument will be that he accomplished the goal USSF for this cycle - getting back to the World Cup (he took over a team that failed to) and getting past the Group stage. There are valid arguments against him, too. Soccer politics will play a role too, unfortunately.
Berhalter did a decent job in getting the US into the World Cup. However, he is not the answer going forward and despite the presence of his brother and allies in the hierarchy of US Soccer, he should be let go. His in-game coaching is lacking and he has been very questionable in terms of player development.
Four years with the same problems. This team will need 1-2 finishers for the next WC and at least two new centerbacks, assuming that Ream cannot play at 39 and Zimmerman who is not the answer will be in his early 30s and unlikely to get better. These needs have been there for four years and Berhalter has not been able to find solutions. Maybe no one could but the US deserves a step up in coaching and coaching experience.
Nor has he adapted tactics to compensate for the lack of skill at those critical positions. The Dutch coach is correct. Berhalter plays his system and tries to fit the players into that system. This was a nice run, but more is needed over the next four years to take the next step up in class.
Berhalter did a decent job in getting the US into the World Cup. However, he is not the answer going forward and despite the presence of his brother and allies in the hierarchy of US Soccer, he should be let go. His in-game coaching is lacking and he has been very questionable in terms of player development.
Four years with the same problems. This team will need 1-2 finishers for the next WC and at least two new centerbacks, assuming that Ream cannot play at 39 and Zimmerman who is not the answer will be in his early 30s and unlikely to get better. These needs have been there for four years and Berhalter has not been able to find solutions. Maybe no one could but the US deserves a step up in coaching and coaching experience.
Nor has he adapted tactics to compensate for the lack of skill at those critical positions. The Dutch coach is correct. Berhalter plays his system and tries to fit the players into that system. This was a nice run, but more is needed over the next four years to take the next step up in class.
100% agree. this is the time to make a change because the situation is in good enough shape that the job should be appealing.
It’s skill, touch, ball control in short areas, and knack. The size, speed, athleticism doesn’t play [i]as much [\i] in soccer, imho as triangle numbers.
What's your take on why the US has little to show there, but not at midfielder?
Our midfield did a great job of possession on offense, and dispossession (getting the ball back) on defense, and creating dangerous chances in the box. Our speed was noticeable. We didn't convert the chances we had. And didn't mark the the free runners in the box (some players fell asleep) and Netherlands didn't miss there chances. Our team is on the right track, but a striker with skill in addition to Pulisic would help.
Berhalter did a decent job in getting the US into the World Cup. However, he is not the answer going forward and despite the presence of his brother and allies in the hierarchy of US Soccer, he should be let go. His in-game coaching is lacking and he has been very questionable in terms of player development.
Four years with the same problems. This team will need 1-2 finishers for the next WC and at least two new centerbacks, assuming that Ream cannot play at 39 and Zimmerman who is not the answer will be in his early 30s and unlikely to get better. These needs have been there for four years and Berhalter has not been able to find solutions. Maybe no one could but the US deserves a step up in coaching and coaching experience.
Nor has he adapted tactics to compensate for the lack of skill at those critical positions. The Dutch coach is correct. Berhalter plays his system and tries to fit the players into that system. This was a nice run, but more is needed over the next four years to take the next step up in class.
Spot on. van Gaal said everything that needed to be said that should be applied to Berhalter. Bid him adieu at the start of the new year after saying thanks and wishing him well. The World Cup in four years is critical to the development of the sport in the US. We need to continue to improve and take some much needed steps towards player selection and development. Gotta get a big time coach here to replace Berhalter. Politics, of course, always plays a role. The Alan Rothenberg and Sunil Gulai dinosaur days are over. Berhalter can join them.
They don't call him Medford Messi for no reason.
Same.
It will be interesting to see if GB is retained. Probably getting through Group will be deemed enough, but we really got exposed in this game.
Quote:
Why they didn’t start Cameron Carter-Vickers. He was great against Iran. But whatever, who needs defense.
Same.
It will be interesting to see if GB is retained. Probably getting through Group will be deemed enough, but we really got exposed in this game.
I don’t follow closely enough to know what makes a good coach. But the story of the game here was very obvious breakdowns. Should US national team players be leaving players this wide open on defense? Is that on their talent or is that on coaching? I don’t know.
BTW, van Gaal's neck never ceases to amaze me...
Quote:
In comment 15929613 illmatic said:
Quote:
Why they didn’t start Cameron Carter-Vickers. He was great against Iran. But whatever, who needs defense.
Same.
It will be interesting to see if GB is retained. Probably getting through Group will be deemed enough, but we really got exposed in this game.
I don’t follow closely enough to know what makes a good coach. But the story of the game here was very obvious breakdowns. Should US national team players be leaving players this wide open on defense? Is that on their talent or is that on coaching? I don’t know.
No they shouldn't, at least not at the relatively top levels of the sport. If you watch the PL for example, rarely do you see 3 goals in one game that easy really. Hard to say who's at fault without watching closer. Could be the defensive shape, and the coaching not adjusting to how NED was attacking. Could be they did but the players had mental/physical breakdowns and screwed up. That last goal looked to me like a player mistake, just the way the other defenders reacted. The other 2 goals its tougher to tell.
I feel like this is said e r time we get bounced from a World Cup.
But the Neth's 3 goals had the same symptom; wide open man in the middle of the penalty area. Especially going down 2-0 just seconds before the half. That to me is on coaching. Attention to detail, marking guys is not a new idea. Does that make Berhalter a bad coach? No. But better teams will make you pay for mistakes. Just like in football (our football). We made more mistakes than our opponents.
That was this game in a nutshell. Was watching with my pop. He was cursing the right back out at the end of the game, lol.
But the Neth's 3 goals had the same symptom; wide open man in the middle of the penalty area. Especially going down 2-0 just seconds before the half. That to me is on coaching. Attention to detail, marking guys is not a new idea. Does that make Berhalter a bad coach? No. But better teams will make you pay for mistakes. Just like in football (our football). We made more mistakes than our opponents.
Not a Berhalter fan but the fault lies mostly on the players. Disappointing to see Adams get back late on the first goal.Dest Defensive lapses have been his biggest weakness. There’s a reason why Xavi wanted him out at Barca without a natural RB on the squad when Dest departed.
The third goal was horrible, but I’ll also chalk that up to goal chasing leaving us exposed and tired legs. We don’t give that up on a lead or tied.
+1
Quote:
So hard to be impactful in box without one
The problem for the USMNT is that we have sucked at set pieces which use to be our strength
Also not having Miles Robinson at center back was a problem on set pieces
US has never been able to produce an undeniable superstar striker. A Lukaku, a Saleh, A CR.
When we do, it will change the entire landscape of US soccer.
This is the next phase that needs to be developed.
France is still in it!
To root against.
+1 This is correct. Some people will argue that strikers are born, not made. Gotta mine the talent that is here that is being left alone.
What's your take on why the US has little to show there, but not at midfielder?
Soccer doesn't compete directly with the other major US sports for athletes, you can get someone 5'7" as the top player in the game which doesn't happen in other sports.
Thought this short video was interesting, and spot on, too.
Short Coaching Analysis - ( New Window )
On each of the three goals, the scorer didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him. You let players run free in the box and you get burned.
Hope the Socceroos shock the world today.
FIFA blog link, including LINEUPS:
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
Thought this short video was interesting, and spot on, too. Short Coaching Analysis - ( New Window )
Exactly.
Exactly.
Optimus, we agree, full stop. As said earlier in week, I'm not a charter member of GBFC. But I think there is a bit here maybe to analogize to Mike Kafka's problems in designing an O around the roster's limitations. Our MF is our strongest group, full stop. You have to try to ride them, and we got some play from the overlaps. Our central defenders are, along with Fs, our weakest group. Could we have sat back and countered, vs Virgil and Blind, et al.? Play the possession game when we are so weak inside the opponent's 18? No striker worth the name. No height. No set piece threats.
Our starting 11 and next couple subs, we need much more, some pieces, for sure, but much more is needed.
Argentina-Australia broadcast link - FOX TV US broadcast feed - ( New Window )
Quote:
"Dutch manager Louis van Gaal's tactical game plan was ruthlessly effective. The Dutch were content to let the US have possession and then attack in transition once possession was gained. It had the effect of asking the US to do things it wasn't good at, namely breaking down an organized defense. It also accentuated some of the Netherlands' strengths, that of using its technical ability to play through the US press and create transition opportunities."
Thought this short video was interesting, and spot on, too. Short Coaching Analysis - ( New Window )
Agree with both the quoted text and the video. "Naive" was a good word by the commentator in the video. GB's coaching today to me was "aspirational" - this is what we would do if we could actually do it - rather than pragmatic - this is how we win this particular game. Against England we played a 4-4-2 and that worked well defensively. Against Iran we played Carter-Vickers and that worked well defensively. Today we were terrible defensively, and I think that's at least partly on GB relying so heavily on a 3-man midfield and the fullbacks going forward. It created easy counterattacks down the middle where we were out of good defensive shape, and in each case an unmarked Dutch guy scored.
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
beautiful, low key shot. Basically a pass to the back of the net
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
I think skill level is much better than past iterations of usmnt, but we still lack any truly world class players. This has to be next. Until we can find one or two of those, a Messi, Modric, Saleh, Mbappe, Lewandowski... we'll be unable to crack the top tier.
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
It's true. While I understand strategizing around a roster's given limitations, it still doesn't exonerate Berhalter from adjusting. We need to develop players who are skilled with the ball and can finish when around the goal. I don't want him here after this World Cup.
Quote:
"The #USMNT didn't adapt, they didn't adjust, we made our tactical plan based on [targeting the flanks]."
There's a lot that we can discuss here, but in the end this was a younger, better version of a typical US blood-and-guts team. Don't see the progress Berhalter was referring to; technical skill gap is still there.
It's true. While I understand strategizing around a roster's given limitations, it still doesn't exonerate Berhalter from adjusting. We need to develop players who are skilled with the ball and can finish when around the goal. I don't want him here after this World Cup.
His contract expires at the end of this month. It will be very interesting to see what happens. His argument will be that he accomplished the goal USSF for this cycle - getting back to the World Cup (he took over a team that failed to) and getting past the Group stage. There are valid arguments against him, too. Soccer politics will play a role too, unfortunately.
Four years with the same problems. This team will need 1-2 finishers for the next WC and at least two new centerbacks, assuming that Ream cannot play at 39 and Zimmerman who is not the answer will be in his early 30s and unlikely to get better. These needs have been there for four years and Berhalter has not been able to find solutions. Maybe no one could but the US deserves a step up in coaching and coaching experience.
Nor has he adapted tactics to compensate for the lack of skill at those critical positions. The Dutch coach is correct. Berhalter plays his system and tries to fit the players into that system. This was a nice run, but more is needed over the next four years to take the next step up in class.
Four years with the same problems. This team will need 1-2 finishers for the next WC and at least two new centerbacks, assuming that Ream cannot play at 39 and Zimmerman who is not the answer will be in his early 30s and unlikely to get better. These needs have been there for four years and Berhalter has not been able to find solutions. Maybe no one could but the US deserves a step up in coaching and coaching experience.
Nor has he adapted tactics to compensate for the lack of skill at those critical positions. The Dutch coach is correct. Berhalter plays his system and tries to fit the players into that system. This was a nice run, but more is needed over the next four years to take the next step up in class.
100% agree. this is the time to make a change because the situation is in good enough shape that the job should be appealing.
Quote:
It’s skill, touch, ball control in short areas, and knack. The size, speed, athleticism doesn’t play [i]as much [\i] in soccer, imho as triangle numbers.
What's your take on why the US has little to show there, but not at midfielder?
Our midfield did a great job of possession on offense, and dispossession (getting the ball back) on defense, and creating dangerous chances in the box. Our speed was noticeable. We didn't convert the chances we had. And didn't mark the the free runners in the box (some players fell asleep) and Netherlands didn't miss there chances. Our team is on the right track, but a striker with skill in addition to Pulisic would help.
Four years with the same problems. This team will need 1-2 finishers for the next WC and at least two new centerbacks, assuming that Ream cannot play at 39 and Zimmerman who is not the answer will be in his early 30s and unlikely to get better. These needs have been there for four years and Berhalter has not been able to find solutions. Maybe no one could but the US deserves a step up in coaching and coaching experience.
Nor has he adapted tactics to compensate for the lack of skill at those critical positions. The Dutch coach is correct. Berhalter plays his system and tries to fit the players into that system. This was a nice run, but more is needed over the next four years to take the next step up in class.
Spot on. van Gaal said everything that needed to be said that should be applied to Berhalter. Bid him adieu at the start of the new year after saying thanks and wishing him well. The World Cup in four years is critical to the development of the sport in the US. We need to continue to improve and take some much needed steps towards player selection and development. Gotta get a big time coach here to replace Berhalter. Politics, of course, always plays a role. The Alan Rothenberg and Sunil Gulai dinosaur days are over. Berhalter can join them.