Starting in 2019 -
I went through the games where Jones played without Barkley and Barkley played without Jones.
There were 18 games where Jones played without Barkley and Giants won 8 of them (.444 winning pct). Some of the losses were by a point or a field goal. Jones was sacked a ton in those games and a good portion of the time he was the leading rusher for the game too.
When you look at the games where Barkley played without Jones, starting on 12/5/2021 Saquon Barkley played 6 games without Jones and helped the team to no wins during that span. 0 for 6.
Now there was the one game where Barkley got hurt against the Bucs and Jones led the team back to a win. I did not count that because they both started.
I think it shows they value of QB over RB. Even though there is a sample size I do not believe Barkley is that much of a difference maker for the Giants to make him a franchise RB.
What do you all think?
The Barkley without Jones shows games with Eli so I disregarded them.
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/saquon-barkley-without-daniel-jones
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/daniel-jones-stats-without-saquon-barkley 
You cannot point to one thing that says Jones is any more than bottom 1/3 player; TDs , Passing yards anything.
You cannot point to one thing that says Jones is any more than bottom 1/3 player; TDs , Passing yards anything.
So Tom is being emotional and you are not. Got it.
But, whatever Atari. I am just pointing out that Jones is more important than Barkley or QB>>>RB.
Why is it that some posters feel the need to bend over backwards for a guy that had no business even starting over Eli in week 2 let alone having people defend him like he was their kid on here? Why?
At best you can say that D Jones is being held back to his oline or receivers so we don 't know what we have . That is the best you can say. And after 4 years that seems like a specious argument at best.
Compare that with NY sports stars that have actually accomplished things. Said Degrom: cy young winner was an integral part of a team going to the world series. Has good stats. Eli 2x SB MVP.
So now tell me ehy we are bending over backwards to justify signing this guy?
Why is it that some posters feel the need to bend over backwards for a guy that had no business even starting over Eli in week 2 let alone having people defend him like he was their kid on here? Why?
At best you can say that D Jones is being held back to his oline or receivers so we don 't know what we have . That is the best you can say. And after 4 years that seems like a specious argument at best.
Compare that with NY sports stars that have actually accomplished things. Said Degrom: cy young winner was an integral part of a team going to the world series. Has good stats. Eli 2x SB MVP.
So now tell me ehy we are bending over backwards to justify signing this guy?
I am not saying any of that.
I would be happy if they let both walk and not sign OBJ. It's not my call though. I was just curious with all the talking heads pumping up Barkley, what has he done without the bottom 1/3 QB he has.
Gun to my head I sign Jones over Barkley, but I would rather not sign any of them.
There are teams doing better without a Barkley.
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to play for another team and the reaction "eh whatever".
Why is it that some posters feel the need to bend over backwards for a guy that had no business even starting over Eli in week 2 let alone having people defend him like he was their kid on here? Why?
At best you can say that D Jones is being held back to his oline or receivers so we don 't know what we have . That is the best you can say. And after 4 years that seems like a specious argument at best.
Compare that with NY sports stars that have actually accomplished things. Said Degrom: cy young winner was an integral part of a team going to the world series. Has good stats. Eli 2x SB MVP.
So now tell me ehy we are bending over backwards to justify signing this guy?
I am not saying any of that.
I would be happy if they let both walk and not sign OBJ. It's not my call though. I was just curious with all the talking heads pumping up Barkley, what has he done without the bottom 1/3 QB he has.
Gun to my head I sign Jones over Barkley, but I would rather not sign any of them.
There are teams doing better without a Barkley.
This is .500 team without Barkley playing like Barkley this year. (It probably will end up being a .500 team anyway). He has not been good the poast 2 years; not even the same player. So your argument and reasoning is weird.
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In comment 15929911 Atari2600 said:
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to play for another team and the reaction "eh whatever".
Why is it that some posters feel the need to bend over backwards for a guy that had no business even starting over Eli in week 2 let alone having people defend him like he was their kid on here? Why?
At best you can say that D Jones is being held back to his oline or receivers so we don 't know what we have . That is the best you can say. And after 4 years that seems like a specious argument at best.
Compare that with NY sports stars that have actually accomplished things. Said Degrom: cy young winner was an integral part of a team going to the world series. Has good stats. Eli 2x SB MVP.
So now tell me ehy we are bending over backwards to justify signing this guy?
I am not saying any of that.
I would be happy if they let both walk and not sign OBJ. It's not my call though. I was just curious with all the talking heads pumping up Barkley, what has he done without the bottom 1/3 QB he has.
Gun to my head I sign Jones over Barkley, but I would rather not sign any of them.
There are teams doing better without a Barkley.
This is .500 team without Barkley playing like Barkley this year. (It probably will end up being a .500 team anyway). He has not been good the poast 2 years; not even the same player. So your argument and reasoning is weird.
He is often injured. Why tie up that much cap in him?
I didn't make those wins and loses up. It is what it is.
I think giving him 12 million a year is nuts.
I also think giving Jones anything more than 30 million a year is crazy at this point. But I am pretty sure it will take at least that.
I don't have to worry about it. It's not my ass on the line.
You have to think Schoen and Daboll have one shot to draft the right guy before the media and fans turn on them if the pick is a dud. Especially if Jones walks and is successful elsewhere.
I honestly would not want to be in their shoes.
How about this: BArkley stays because he is good and Jones walks because he is not.
At $15m most would take Jones for another year or two, at $35m not so much.
Its all relative.
The QB is harder to replace, but maybe another Qb in this system looks better.
I'm fine with letting them both go or stay if reasonable.
1). First and foremost, this should be true on every team. The difference between your starting QB and backup QB is almost always huge. The difference between your starting RB and backup RB should be much smaller. Said differently the marginal difference between the best RB in the game and the 33rd best RB in the game is small. The marginal difference between the best QB and the 33rd best QB is monumental.
2). DJ on average has been severely underrated on this board. He is a legit NFL starter. Probably somewhere between 10 and 20. Really has been his whole career. For example last year when he was the QB our offense was somewhere between OK and bad. Once he was hurt our offense was once in a lifetime bad. He was our best offensive player last year (except for AT). Still think he has been our best offensive player this year although SB has been closer.
3). Either RBs or SB are highly overrated on average by this board. If we had traded SB before the season, not sure our record is a lot different. Whatever we replaced him (Breida, Brightwell, a player not on our roster) would have gotten most of the yards and plays SB got. Really only a few plays all year where he has looked special, and in the last few games he has not even looked mediocre. For much of his career as a Giant, he has not been a noticeable upgrade from luminaries like Wayne Gallman and De'vontae Booker. Even truly great running backs, which he is not, just don't make that much difference in the NFL of today. See Derrick Henry and the Titans record with him and without him.
Pay QBs. Don't pay RBs. Keep DJ at even a high price if Coaches think he has it. Let SB walk unless he will take a deal that pays him not much more than he is getting paid this year.
Assuming the year continues as it has, DJ gets paid (call it at least $25 per). SB might find someone to pay him $10 per,but it will be a mistake.
After all, if Jones isn’t around next year, Barkley would still have to produce with a different QB.
You cannot point to one thing that says Jones is any more than bottom 1/3 player; TDs , Passing yards anything.
1). First and foremost, this should be true on every team. The difference between your starting QB and backup QB is almost always huge. The difference between your starting RB and backup RB should be much smaller. Said differently the marginal difference between the best RB in the game and the 33rd best RB in the game is small. The marginal difference between the best QB and the 33rd best QB is monumental.
2). DJ on average has been severely underrated on this board. He is a legit NFL starter. Probably somewhere between 10 and 20. Really has been his whole career. For example last year when he was the QB our offense was somewhere between OK and bad. Once he was hurt our offense was once in a lifetime bad. He was our best offensive player last year (except for AT). Still think he has been our best offensive player this year although SB has been closer.
3). Either RBs or SB are highly overrated on average by this board. If we had traded SB before the season, not sure our record is a lot different. Whatever we replaced him (Breida, Brightwell, a player not on our roster) would have gotten most of the yards and plays SB got. Really only a few plays all year where he has looked special, and in the last few games he has not even looked mediocre. For much of his career as a Giant, he has not been a noticeable upgrade from luminaries like Wayne Gallman and De'vontae Booker. Even truly great running backs, which he is not, just don't make that much difference in the NFL of today. See Derrick Henry and the Titans record with him and without him.
Pay QBs. Don't pay RBs. Keep DJ at even a high price if Coaches think he has it. Let SB walk unless he will take a deal that pays him not much more than he is getting paid this year.
Assuming the year continues as it has, DJ gets paid (call it at least $25 per). SB might find someone to pay him $10 per,but it will be a mistake.
Agree. Some posters want to pay Jones about $15M but that won’t get it done.
He will go to another team that offers more money and a better supporting cast.
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The fact that anyone would find this surprising is based on three items in my opinion.
1). First and foremost, this should be true on every team. The difference between your starting QB and backup QB is almost always huge. The difference between your starting RB and backup RB should be much smaller. Said differently the marginal difference between the best RB in the game and the 33rd best RB in the game is small. The marginal difference between the best QB and the 33rd best QB is monumental.
2). DJ on average has been severely underrated on this board. He is a legit NFL starter. Probably somewhere between 10 and 20. Really has been his whole career. For example last year when he was the QB our offense was somewhere between OK and bad. Once he was hurt our offense was once in a lifetime bad. He was our best offensive player last year (except for AT). Still think he has been our best offensive player this year although SB has been closer.
3). Either RBs or SB are highly overrated on average by this board. If we had traded SB before the season, not sure our record is a lot different. Whatever we replaced him (Breida, Brightwell, a player not on our roster) would have gotten most of the yards and plays SB got. Really only a few plays all year where he has looked special, and in the last few games he has not even looked mediocre. For much of his career as a Giant, he has not been a noticeable upgrade from luminaries like Wayne Gallman and De'vontae Booker. Even truly great running backs, which he is not, just don't make that much difference in the NFL of today. See Derrick Henry and the Titans record with him and without him.
Pay QBs. Don't pay RBs. Keep DJ at even a high price if Coaches think he has it. Let SB walk unless he will take a deal that pays him not much more than he is getting paid this year.
Assuming the year continues as it has, DJ gets paid (call it at least $25 per). SB might find someone to pay him $10 per,but it will be a mistake.
Agree. Some posters want to pay Jones about $15M but that won’t get it done.
He will go to another team that offers more money and a better supporting cast.
He's definitely going to take the best offer. Him taking a lesser contract just to stay here is fantasy.
I'm pretty confident wherever he ends up he'll continue to be mediocre, I have no fear of having to watch him walk away and light it up elsewhere.
Oh, and in the Wilderness Years, when Tucker Frederickson was healthy and played, the Giants had a 0.500 win percentage.
The same people are now arguing we must resign Barkley at high dollars because he is so valuable.
Those two positions stand at opposition to each other. If he wasn't worth the 2 pick because running backs are not that valuable then resigning any running back to high dollars is not worth it.
1). First and foremost, this should be true on every team. The difference between your starting QB and backup QB is almost always huge. The difference between your starting RB and backup RB should be much smaller. Said differently the marginal difference between the best RB in the game and the 33rd best RB in the game is small. The marginal difference between the best QB and the 33rd best QB is monumental.
2). DJ on average has been severely underrated on this board. He is a legit NFL starter. Probably somewhere between 10 and 20. Really has been his whole career. For example last year when he was the QB our offense was somewhere between OK and bad. Once he was hurt our offense was once in a lifetime bad. He was our best offensive player last year (except for AT). Still think he has been our best offensive player this year although SB has been closer.
3). Either RBs or SB are highly overrated on average by this board. If we had traded SB before the season, not sure our record is a lot different. Whatever we replaced him (Breida, Brightwell, a player not on our roster) would have gotten most of the yards and plays SB got. Really only a few plays all year where he has looked special, and in the last few games he has not even looked mediocre. For much of his career as a Giant, he has not been a noticeable upgrade from luminaries like Wayne Gallman and De'vontae Booker. Even truly great running backs, which he is not, just don't make that much difference in the NFL of today. See Derrick Henry and the Titans record with him and without him.
Pay QBs. Don't pay RBs. Keep DJ at even a high price if Coaches think he has it. Let SB walk unless he will take a deal that pays him not much more than he is getting paid this year.
Assuming the year continues as it has, DJ gets paid (call it at least $25 per). SB might find someone to pay him $10 per,but it will be a mistake.
Between Jones at $25 million and SB at $10 million...the mistake would be DJ. Don't overpay average QBs...even if you want to let your best player walk.
The same people are now arguing we must resign Barkley at high dollars because he is so valuable.
Those two positions stand at opposition to each other. If he wasn't worth the 2 pick because running backs are not that valuable then resigning any running back to high dollars is not worth it.
I think picking him at #2 was ridiculous, and I think signing him to $12M is also ridiculous.
Barkley has played very well this year. He has answered many of the criticisms of his play. One of the main criticisms is still out there. Health. This is true of all RBs, they tend to break down. Now he has a shoulder, and his production has fallen off a cliff. I can't see how a player who has had so many injuries and has proven he does not play well through them is worth $12M, or even $10M!
You cannot point to one thing that says Jones is any more than bottom 1/3 player; TDs , Passing yards anything.
A shit quarterback…. Seems like a bit of an over the top emotional response my friend
You cannot point to one thing that says Jones is any more than bottom 1/3 player; TDs , Passing yards anything.
Jones will do more in his life than you ever will. He may be a shit QB but you're a shit person.
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you are trying to pump up a shit QB for emotional reasons & downgrade Barkley who -- while hurt -- always had the potential to be what he is now. He is namely a difference maker and impact player and in the conversation as an all pro.
You cannot point to one thing that says Jones is any more than bottom 1/3 player; TDs , Passing yards anything.
Jones will do more in his life than you ever will. He may be a shit QB but you're a shit person.
Getting a little personal there? lol. You can't even say that with 100% certainty, I mean what amazong stuff is Dave Brown doing these days? Probably just raising his kids and living a more or less upper middle class lifestyle and hoping people don't bring up his bad football play as an exampe why you never draft a Duke QB or whatever.
1). First and foremost, this should be true on every team. The difference between your starting QB and backup QB is almost always huge. The difference between your starting RB and backup RB should be much smaller. Said differently the marginal difference between the best RB in the game and the 33rd best RB in the game is small. The marginal difference between the best QB and the 33rd best QB is monumental.
2). DJ on average has been severely underrated on this board. He is a legit NFL starter. Probably somewhere between 10 and 20. Really has been his whole career. For example last year when he was the QB our offense was somewhere between OK and bad. Once he was hurt our offense was once in a lifetime bad. He was our best offensive player last year (except for AT). Still think he has been our best offensive player this year although SB has been closer.
3). Either RBs or SB are highly overrated on average by this board. If we had traded SB before the season, not sure our record is a lot different. Whatever we replaced him (Breida, Brightwell, a player not on our roster) would have gotten most of the yards and plays SB got. Really only a few plays all year where he has looked special, and in the last few games he has not even looked mediocre. For much of his career as a Giant, he has not been a noticeable upgrade from luminaries like Wayne Gallman and De'vontae Booker. Even truly great running backs, which he is not, just don't make that much difference in the NFL of today. See Derrick Henry and the Titans record with him and without him.
Pay QBs. Don't pay RBs. Keep DJ at even a high price if Coaches think he has it. Let SB walk unless he will take a deal that pays him not much more than he is getting paid this year.
Assuming the year continues as it has, DJ gets paid (call it at least $25 per). SB might find someone to pay him $10 per,but it will be a mistake.
Your #1 point is absolutely spot on.
However, you're sadly mistaken if you think that the Giants would have the same record without Barkley...or that Breida (averaging 1.2 yds less per carry than Barkley) or the special-teamer Brightwell (who has only rushed for 9 times) "would have gotten most of the yards and plays SB got".
You're probably right when you suggest that teams shouldn't "pay RBs" but you don't have to downplay Barkley's achievements just to prop up that point.
Barkley and his 45 yard runs were instrumental to this team winning,
Barkley is the focal point on offense according to Kafka and Daboll and DCs every game know it. Half a defense is following his every move opening up opportunites for others.
Derrick Henry and the Titans. The Titans have a QB that can take gamoes over. The Titans have a QB that can throw 33 TDs in a season. It is going to take Jones 2 seasons to accomplish that.