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NY Giants vs Washington Commanders Post-Game Discussion

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/4/2022 4:16 pm
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I’d love to  
ajr2456 : 12/4/2022 6:59 pm : link
But it’s multiple threads of him getting nasty first over simple differing opinion.
RE: LOL..  
chick310 : 12/4/2022 7:07 pm : link
In comment 15932744 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
post a few more hundred times about Jones this week - you ignorant fuck


Troll
RE: I’d love to  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/4/2022 7:13 pm : link
In comment 15932792 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
But it’s multiple threads of him getting nasty first over simple differing opinion.


You literally post hundreds of times a week about Jones - are you going to deny that??

How does a singular topic cause you to lose hours of your life a week? And you don't see any issue with that?
RE: Anyone who thinks that  
jvm52106 : 12/4/2022 7:17 pm : link
In comment 15932650 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
pass at mid field to Slayton was a drop needs to re watch. Jones’s throw could have been better (typical), but Slayton went up as high as he could and couldn’t maintain body control coming down. It was a high level play he didn’t make. Not on the level of his usual drops.


Hmmm, that is absolutely false . It's fine, this board will never be honest about any player that they have already decided is not the guy.. Slayton flat out sucks. His inconsistent hands make Stacey Robinson and Byron Williams look like Drew Pearson and Tony Hill...

I am tired of the Let Me Prove my opinion by grasping at fucking straws vs just do an honest assessment.

Slaytons drop, Feliciano's stupid penalty and some very questionable play calls doomed this team today...
RE: RE: I’d love to  
ajr2456 : 12/4/2022 7:20 pm : link
In comment 15932827 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15932792 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


But it’s multiple threads of him getting nasty first over simple differing opinion.



You literally post hundreds of times a week about Jones - are you going to deny that??

How does a singular topic cause you to lose hours of your life a week? And you don't see any issue with that?


Again simply not true. You can see the threads I posted on this week.

Again for someone who doesn’t waste hours on here you seem to know a lot about what I do. I don’t consider discussing football with people I enjoy discussing football with losing hours of my life, but you know very little about me. It’s actually a break from getting paid to watch basketball during the week.

All you have are personal attacks. It’s kinda sad.
3rd and 3  
Ike#88 : 12/4/2022 7:24 pm : link
and James runs into Barkley. He did not know the play. It was a stupid call by the OC. Why run something complex like that? As for Jones. My biggest concern is his inability to make throws when on the move and not looking at the primary receiver. He is limited in his ability to survey the field. We are a very low scoring team and he is the QB. Tired of it. The 4th down long completion on the Wash. TD drive is classic last 5 years Giants. Should not have happened but it is reality for us fans.
RE: One big positive  
thefan : 12/4/2022 7:24 pm : link
In comment 15932522 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Ojulari. I was expecting the guy to do nothing and play a small number of plays. Instead, he had a really strong game. He will help turn that front 7 into a force.

Even with several gaping talent gaps (does Jaylon Smith still have enough speed to play in the league?), this unit is an emerging force.


Agreed and this was a knocking of the cobwebs game since he hasn't really played this season.
Jones  
AcidTest : 12/4/2022 7:25 pm : link
was overall good today, although his fumble on the first possession was costly. As always, he's dealing with a bad interior OL, weak WRs, and an OC who insists on overusing Barkley, even against eight man boxes. Kafka frequently puts Jones in second and long situations, which just magnify the problems with the OL and WRs.

But that doesn't mean that I would be willing to resign Jones. I still want to see what happens the rest of the season, but right now I don't think I would use the FT on him. I also think some team is likely to offer him a much better deal than what I would be willing to give him, at least as of now. Many teams will be looking for a QB, and at least one will likely conclude that his problems are mostly caused by his OL and WRs.
RE: NY Giants-Washington Post Game  
thefan : 12/4/2022 7:28 pm : link
In comment 15932789 johnboyw said:
Quote:
The Feliciano penalty killed the Giant’s chance to put this game away but it was a really poor call by the refs who have basically taken over the game. This was one they should have let go. That said, anyone happen to know what JFs PFF grade is? Can’t be very good.

The big picture problems for the Giants are they can’t pass block (primarily Figueroa and Glowinski), they can’t stop the run, they can’t defend the pass when the game is on the line and the pass rush is still very inconsistent in spite of all the talk about it. This translates to a non-playoff team or, at best, one that gets knocked out in the first round.


Agree with everything, though the Giants defense bailed out the offense all day today.
They blew this one  
St. Jimmy : 12/4/2022 7:29 pm : link
on a taunting penalty. So stupid. Feliciano should run the entire next practice. Ridiculously stupid.
RE: Jones  
DefenseWins : 12/4/2022 7:39 pm : link
In comment 15932859 AcidTest said:
Quote:

But that doesn't mean that I would be willing to resign Jones. I still want to see what happens the rest of the season, but right now I don't think I would use the FT on him. I also think some team is likely to offer him a much better deal than what I would be willing to give him


okay, a couple of questions..

1. Regarding the franchise tag, does that mean we are committing to him for just one year? If we have no other real option at QB, why would this be a bad thing?

2. I agree there are going to be many teams who are looking for a QB. So, where does that leave us? Who does that leave us with? What free agent is out there who is a solid future franchise QB? If there are other teams who would pay Jones more, then why cant we tag him and trade him?

I am not familiar with cap rules so forgive me.
RE: RE: Jones  
thefan : 12/4/2022 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15932907 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 15932859 AcidTest said:


Quote:



But that doesn't mean that I would be willing to resign Jones. I still want to see what happens the rest of the season, but right now I don't think I would use the FT on him. I also think some team is likely to offer him a much better deal than what I would be willing to give him



okay, a couple of questions..

1. Regarding the franchise tag, does that mean we are committing to him for just one year? If we have no other real option at QB, why would this be a bad thing?

2. I agree there are going to be many teams who are looking for a QB. So, where does that leave us? Who does that leave us with? What free agent is out there who is a solid future franchise QB? If there are other teams who would pay Jones more, then why cant we tag him and trade him?

I am not familiar with cap rules so forgive me.


I'm not sure the dropoff from Jones to Tyrod Taylor is that big.
RE: RE: Jones  
AcidTest : 12/4/2022 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15932907 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 15932859 AcidTest said:


Quote:



But that doesn't mean that I would be willing to resign Jones. I still want to see what happens the rest of the season, but right now I don't think I would use the FT on him. I also think some team is likely to offer him a much better deal than what I would be willing to give him



okay, a couple of questions..

1. Regarding the franchise tag, does that mean we are committing to him for just one year? If we have no other real option at QB, why would this be a bad thing?

2. I agree there are going to be many teams who are looking for a QB. So, where does that leave us? Who does that leave us with? What free agent is out there who is a solid future franchise QB? If there are other teams who would pay Jones more, then why cant we tag him and trade him?

I am not familiar with cap rules so forgive me.


(1) The FT is a one year commitment, but it will be about $31.5M for a QB in 2023 IIRC.

(2) I assume that Taylor would replace Jones, and we would draft a QB high next year or in 2024. I think we can use the TT or the FT on Jones and trade him, but I'm not sure.
RE: RE: Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/4/2022 7:53 pm : link
In comment 15932907 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 15932859 AcidTest said:


Quote:



But that doesn't mean that I would be willing to resign Jones. I still want to see what happens the rest of the season, but right now I don't think I would use the FT on him. I also think some team is likely to offer him a much better deal than what I would be willing to give him



okay, a couple of questions..

1. Regarding the franchise tag, does that mean we are committing to him for just one year? If we have no other real option at QB, why would this be a bad thing?



It is a 1 year deal at the rate of the average of the top 5 qb contracts in the league, and there is no cap maneuvering to be done such and bonus money or movable money to make room for other signings. That's a high number that impacts the Giants ability to do other things with the roster. Essentially you would be paying Daniel jones top 5 ish money even then you know he isn't that level of player or producer just because you don't trust the backup you just signed to a two year deal, or you think you have no other options.

RE: RE: RE: Jones  
DefenseWins : 12/4/2022 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15932936 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15932907 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


In comment 15932859 AcidTest said:


Quote:



But that doesn't mean that I would be willing to resign Jones. I still want to see what happens the rest of the season, but right now I don't think I would use the FT on him. I also think some team is likely to offer him a much better deal than what I would be willing to give him



okay, a couple of questions..

1. Regarding the franchise tag, does that mean we are committing to him for just one year? If we have no other real option at QB, why would this be a bad thing?





It is a 1 year deal at the rate of the average of the top 5 qb contracts in the league, and there is no cap maneuvering to be done such and bonus money or movable money to make room for other signings. That's a high number that impacts the Giants ability to do other things with the roster. Essentially you would be paying Daniel jones top 5 ish money even then you know he isn't that level of player or producer just because you don't trust the backup you just signed to a two year deal, or you think you have no other options.


okay I see.. and thank you to the other posters who also responded to my questions.

So, we could offer him a 1 year $15 million deal that he likely would not take.

Our options are Tyrod or anyone else we can find. If that is the approach, then we absolutely would need to solidify the OL and the group of WRs. Otherwise, we are a 4 win team again.
It really depends on the league and jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/4/2022 8:07 pm : link
I dont think anyone is paying jones that much money. It's realistic the Giants could re-sign him unless some other team in the NFL wants him.


Jones wants to be a starter and there will be jobs around the NFL open. Some with better talent on offense to give him a chance to show he can play better than what he's done so far. Money is one factor, but if you're Jones, does another year in NY with some rookie WRs make sense when you're trying to save your career as a starter? More years like this may typecast him as a career backup.



RE: RE: RE: Jones  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/4/2022 8:16 pm : link
In comment 15932930 thefan said:
Quote:



I'm not sure the dropoff from Jones to Tyrod Taylor is that big.


Taylor played a dozen snaps this season and threw an interception, fumbled, and got hurt.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/4/2022 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15933004 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15932930 thefan said:


Quote:





I'm not sure the dropoff from Jones to Tyrod Taylor is that big.



Taylor played a dozen snaps this season and threw an interception, fumbled, and got hurt.



INTs, fumbles and injuries are what's defined Daniel Jones too to this point.
 
ryanmkeane : 12/4/2022 8:21 pm : link
Jones really doesn’t turn the ball over at all anymore. Anyone saying that’s still a thing is stuck in 2020.
 
ryanmkeane : 12/4/2022 8:23 pm : link
Turnovers are the least of the concerns with Jones. Which is ironic considering that used to be a big problem.
RE: …  
Mike from Ohio : 12/4/2022 8:25 pm : link
In comment 15933024 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Turnovers are the least of the concerns with Jones. Which is ironic considering that used to be a big problem.


Yes he has stopped the turnovers. But it stopped the production too. If you have to have one to have the other you aren’t a long term starter.
Tweet from Sy on the drop  
ajr2456 : 12/4/2022 9:06 pm : link
Looks like both players were at fault.

Quote:
Definitely a poorly thrown ball. No question.

Slayton mis-played it as well.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Tweet from Sy on the drop  
OBJ_AllDay : 12/4/2022 9:10 pm : link
In comment 15933142 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Looks like both players were at fault.



Quote:


Definitely a poorly thrown ball. No question.

Slayton mis-played it as well.

Link - ( New Window )


Slayton clearly mistimed his jump.
 
ryanmkeane : 12/4/2022 9:11 pm : link
Not concerned about being able to beat Washington at their place. But this tie stings. We had enough to win.
We need a legit starting player at WR, OL  
djm : 12/4/2022 9:13 pm : link
LB and CB. That’s assuming guys like X and Jackson are back and healthy next year, obviously.

Simple as that. We probably re-sign Barkley and jones and hopefully sign 3 of those needs in FA. Time to spend money and add professionals to the roster. Then draft talent.

We’re an 05 type offseason away from winning this game by 10 pts.
RE: RE: Tweet from Sy on the drop  
PetesHereNow : 12/4/2022 9:14 pm : link
In comment 15933153 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
In comment 15933142 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Looks like both players were at fault.



Quote:


Definitely a poorly thrown ball. No question.

Slayton mis-played it as well.

Link - ( New Window )



Slayton clearly mistimed his jump.


Did he have to jump? If he runs through the ball, it might have been a TD.
RE: RE: RE: Tweet from Sy on the drop  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/4/2022 9:23 pm : link
In comment 15933162 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
In comment 15933153 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:



Quote:


Definitely a poorly thrown ball. No question.

Slayton mis-played it as well.

Link - ( New Window )



Slayton clearly mistimed his jump.



Did he have to jump? If he runs through the ball, it might have been a TD.


Slayton makes terrible adjustments when the ball is in the air most of the time. It's why we throw a parade whenever he catches a ball over 20 yards.
In his defense, he's the only WR on the team even capable of getting open 20+ yards down the field it seems
Glad Sy opined on that throw  
Mike from Ohio : 12/4/2022 9:32 pm : link
Maybe now we can stop calling it a drop by Slayton. It was a poor throw but was still catchable. Neither player made a good play.
RE: Tweet from Sy on the drop  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/4/2022 9:32 pm : link
In comment 15933142 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Looks like both players were at fault.



Quote:


Definitely a poorly thrown ball. No question.

Slayton mis-played it as well.

Link - ( New Window )


The throw wasn't perfect but considering that Jones had a defender about to hit him(possibly did hit him) because Glowinski got beat and Feliciano is useless and didn't help...Jones put it on the best WR on our team 35 yards downfield...who got 2 hands on it. Last week it was Barkley, this week it's Slay. This is the NFL...their job is to catch the ball.
At some point the Giants will have to score 24 pints or more  
Chef : 12/4/2022 9:37 pm : link
to win a game....
Re: Slayton drop  
BillKo : 12/4/2022 9:41 pm : link
I was watching from the endzone and it appeared to be Slayton mistimed the jump too, but also seemed to stop his route instead of continuing up field?
Howard Cross commenting on Slayton play  
joe48 : 12/4/2022 9:43 pm : link
Said pass was perfectly thrown and Slayton jumped too early. Remarkable play considering defender was right in Jones’s face.
RE: Howard Cross commenting on Slayton play  
BillKo : 12/4/2022 9:45 pm : link
In comment 15933212 joe48 said:
Quote:
Said pass was perfectly thrown and Slayton jumped too early. Remarkable play considering defender was right in Jones’s face.


Someone said above - if he ran thru the route it would have been a TD - almost like DJ was leading him.
Slayton caught the ball cleanly with his hands  
M.S. : 12/4/2022 9:51 pm : link

But he knocked the ball out of his own hands when he brought the ball down to secure it in his stomach.

There’s such a thing as eye-hand coordination issues.

But, ohhhhhhh no… this was an eye-stomach issue.
Scales are rebalancing for the Giants  
M.S. : 12/4/2022 9:53 pm : link

And not in a good way.

Titans missed a game winner FG in Week 1, Gano missed one today.

And so it goes.
RE: Scales are rebalancing for the Giants  
BillKo : 12/4/2022 10:10 pm : link
In comment 15933227 M.S. said:
Quote:

And not in a good way.

Titans missed a game winner FG in Week 1, Gano missed one today.

And so it goes.


Those two are equivalent? lol......
It was a totally fine throw  
Jerry in_DC : 12/4/2022 10:30 pm : link
You don't expect pinpoint accuracy on throws of that distance. And it wasn't the easiest catch in the world, but definitely one you'd expect to be made. But these things happen. Not every pretty good downfield throw is caught.

We just make so few big plays that any chance for one is gold. Tyler Boyd dropped a catch that was a million times easier. But they score a lot and make a lot of big plays so they get past it.

You'll see plays like that in just about every game. It's a bad one for Slayton. He made a good one earlier.
If slayton continued to run through the ball  
Tuckrule : 12/5/2022 5:51 am : link
He would have been clipped by the safety. Not a massive hit but a hit. The ball realistically should have been outside the numbers. Jones put it on him. It was def catchable but a good throw? It wasn’t.
RE: RE: Howard Cross commenting on Slayton play  
giantBCP : 12/5/2022 6:05 am : link
In comment 15933215 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 15933212 joe48 said:


Quote:


Said pass was perfectly thrown and Slayton jumped too early. Remarkable play considering defender was right in Jones’s face.



Someone said above - if he ran thru the route it would have been a TD - almost like DJ was leading him.


Exactly. The ball skills that he exhibited on that play were awful.
RE: If slayton continued to run through the ball  
section125 : 12/5/2022 6:47 am : link
In comment 15933415 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
He would have been clipped by the safety. Not a massive hit but a hit. The ball realistically should have been outside the numbers. Jones put it on him. It was def catchable but a good throw? It wasn’t.


Did you watch the Cincy/KC game? Did you see the passes that Burrow and Mahomes made to their WRs? Rarely were they perfect, yet most of then were caught on imperfect placement or on contested throws. Yes there were a couple of wide open drops, too.
Even though Washington beat Philly a few games ago  
M.S. : 12/5/2022 6:56 am : link

Seems clear Philly/Dallas are the class of the NFC (not to mention the NFC East), followed by the Commanders and the Giants who are both behind them in overall team talent.

Giants now have 5 games remaining and they will all be very difficult, especially with all their injuries and their current level of play. Don't be shocked if they finish 8-8-1. It's a distinct possibility. If the Giants do indeed finish 8-8-1 (after a 7-2 start), I guess there's two ways of looking at Daboll's first season:

(1) The 2022 Giants are a vastly different (and better) team than where they ended up in 2021; or,
(2) After raising expectations to an unreasonably high level by mid-season, injuries (and a talent deficit) finally caught up to the 2022 Giants.

My overwhelming perspective / preference is #1.
RE: RE: Tweet from Sy on the drop  
DefenseWins : 12/5/2022 6:58 am : link
In comment 15933153 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:



Slayton clearly mistimed his jump.


+1
That was my very first thought when I saw the play live. He jumped too soon and was on his way down and falling backwards when the ball hit his hand.
RE: RE: RE: Tweet from Sy on the drop  
section125 : 12/5/2022 7:12 am : link
In comment 15933445 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 15933153 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:





Slayton clearly mistimed his jump.



+1
That was my very first thought when I saw the play live. He jumped too soon and was on his way down and falling backwards when the ball hit his hand.


Here is a replay of that pass - it was still in his hands cleanly and he bobbles it on the way down.
It was a very well thrown pass and misplayed, one way or another by Slayton.
Slayton's drop of late bomb - ( New Window )
RE: If slayton continued to run through the ball  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/5/2022 7:23 am : link
In comment 15933415 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
He would have been clipped by the safety. Not a massive hit but a hit. The ball realistically should have been outside the numbers. Jones put it on him. It was def catchable but a good throw? It wasn’t.


Clipped by what safety? Do you have all22 access?
Mercy Mercy Mercy  
M.S. : 12/5/2022 7:36 am : link

So much written about the Slayton almost-catch as though that was the reason why the Giants failed to come away with a win against Washington.

Nope.

The Giants failed because their second half run game was literally crushed out of existence and their interior offensive line was made to look like a colander perforated with gigantic holes.
.  
ChrisRick : 12/5/2022 8:41 am : link
My view of the Jones to Slayton mised opportunity: Jones threw away from the coverage, Slayton ran to the coverage. Slayton was not expecting the ball towards the outside, but I think Jones was right to throw away from the defender. Had Slayton expected that, he would have probably put his body in a much better position to make the catch.

I put this on Slayton who has a history of drops.
Slayton should have caught that one. But he has also  
shyster : 12/5/2022 9:03 am : link
turned two potential INTs into 50-plus yard completions in the last two games: jumping over the DB in Dallas and, yesterday, sneakily getting away with grabbing the DB and putting himself in position for the catch.

Slayton giveth and Slayton taketh away.
Heinecki  
stretch234 : 12/5/2022 9:58 am : link
He is throwing to McLaurin, Samuel and Dotson. On their team Slayton is a 4. On the Giants he is a 1.

There is a reason their WR seemed to be open with space so often

I would not pay Jones franchise type money (30m) but he is so hamstrung from throwing to poor talent. Add to that the absolute awful C and RG play.

Slayton catches that pass the game is over. That was season wrecking drop
RE: It was a totally fine throw  
kickoff : 12/5/2022 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15933276 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
You don't expect pinpoint accuracy on throws of that distance. And it wasn't the easiest catch in the world, but definitely one you'd expect to be made. But these things happen. Not every pretty good downfield throw is caught.

We just make so few big plays that any chance for one is gold. Tyler Boyd dropped a catch that was a million times easier. But they score a lot and make a lot of big plays so they get past it.

You'll see plays like that in just about every game. It's a bad one for Slayton. He made a good one earlier.

Anyone else tired of seeing our opponents making great catches to keep drives going and every throw DJ makes has to be perfect. DJ completed 80% of his passes yesterday and was the major part of the offense. IMO he did a remarkable job with people in his face all day. It's a shame, this kid plays his heart out every game under dyer circumstances and has to put up with this constant criticism I wont blame him if he leaves, and believe me there will be teams willing to pay.
RE: Slayton should have caught that one. But he has also  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/5/2022 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15933638 shyster said:
Quote:
turned two potential INTs into 50-plus yard completions in the last two games: jumping over the DB in Dallas and, yesterday, sneakily getting away with grabbing the DB and putting himself in position for the catch.

Slayton giveth and Slayton taketh away.


Every pass is a potential int. So he did his job on those 2 plays.
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