for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Honest question for the “doom & gloom” crowd here

Sean : 12/5/2022 7:17 am
This is for the people who think the Giants won’t win another game or only one more win. Let’s look at a few facts here:

—The Lions are 4-1 in their last five games. They could have easily beat Buffalo as well. They just destroyed the Jaguars. Does that loss look so bad anymore?

—The Cowboys just beat the Colts 54-19. The very undermanned Giants were leading at the half. If Jones & Barkley convert on the 4th and 1, things could have went differently. The defense also got a tough break when a questionable penalty kept them on the field.

—Washington has been one of the hottest teams in the NFL. They beat up on Philly on the road, physically dominated them. Yet, the Giants came away with a 20-20 tie.

We keep hearing how poor this roster is, yet I also see people hammering this coaching staff. So, which is it?

For as horrific as this roster supposedly is by some, only having 4 losses shows how incredible this coaching staff is. Or, there are a ton of people on the board that are just ridiculously over dramatic with their negative outlook of the team.
I think what it says is that  
section125 : 12/5/2022 7:22 am : link
the coaching staff is doing very well with what they have. I am a bit disappointed in Kafka's play calling, but with the talent level of this team they are not getting blown away.
I think a lot of people allowed  
bigbluehoya : 12/5/2022 7:29 am : link
their expectations to soar a bit on the back of some positive outcomes early in the season.

It's understandable, but it doesn't justify the worst of the comportment you around here with the childish reactions, hostile behavior toward other opinions, and etc.

Even under the most charitable of microscopes, this roster was always talent-deficient in some really key areas, lacking in quality depth, and operating at the razor's edge in terms of margin for error. The confluence of steady play, good coaching, and really good fortune earlier in the season didn't change that fact.

I understand that many object to the attitude of "aw shucks guys we never dreamed the team would be successful this year so let's be happy". But jesus, we have the month of December packed with critically important football games, and that's something I have missed!
^^^^  
winoguy : 12/5/2022 7:38 am : link
Good post Hoya....
People are simply reacting emotionally to their team  
Mike from Ohio : 12/5/2022 7:38 am : link
Losing after they got off to a 6-1 start. Although the Giants outplayed expectations by a pretty wide margin, folks started thinking about the playoffs or even winning the division.

As my kids say, its not that deep.

The roster is poor. We knew that coming into the season. The coaching staff has done a great job getting them to where they are now. The rest is gravy.
We'll all see  
Arkbach : 12/5/2022 7:42 am : link
how far they are from being a contender on Sunday.
Dont  
mdthedream : 12/5/2022 7:42 am : link
feel people are that negative about the Giants at all. I think we are all pretty much happy with the season and didn't expect them to play this well. I feel a little bit down on the fact we did nothing about the WR situation all year and wonder what it could have been. Any help at that position could have been huge. That said we need to upgrade it next season with a trade or whatever to get a #1 in the house.
It was a  
joeinpa : 12/5/2022 7:58 am : link
Game that a team headed for the playoffs wins, so it s a bit discouraging

But you are correct, in 2 weeks regardless of what happens against Philly, Giants get to play a very significant game and erase the sour taste from yesterday

Folks need to go back & re read their own posts going into the season.  
Spider56 : 12/5/2022 8:07 am : link
Rebuilding year, I’d be happy with 6-11, 7-10 at best, no way we win 5 games, the roster sucks, no cap space, let’s just play meaningful football in November...

The schedule turned out to.be a gift and the team squeaked by in close game. We’re playing with house money now so just enjoy the ride and we’ll see what happens. 8-8-1 with a fourth place schedule next year would not be all that bad a start for the new regime.
...  
ryanmkeane : 12/5/2022 8:17 am : link
they've got a chance to win next week, one game at a time
They’re doing amazingly well considering the roster and injuries  
BillT : 12/5/2022 8:22 am : link
That said, the roster and the injuries are real factors. Still need to get some players back like Jackson, McKinney, Ezudu, Lemieux.
Excellent post Sean …clap clap  
5BowlsSoon : 12/5/2022 8:24 am : link
Great perspective here.

Here is how I see things to piggyback on your thoughts….

We won’t have a chance against Philly if we don’t get back both Adoree and Xavier. Covering Brown and Smith demands our best players, not 3rd strong guys.

With a fairly healthy team, we could beat Washington, Indy, and Minny. Just don’t think we can beat Philly.

Hats off to Philly smart people for making great decisions- getting AJ Brown and dumping Reager was huge. They believed if they got Hurts dependable toys this would elevate his game. They were right. A good OL helps too.
Expectations SHould Change  
Jeffrey : 12/5/2022 8:32 am : link
It's amazing how many people are trying to justify or excuse recent mistakes by coaches and players on the basis that the team is not talented and was not expected to have this good a record. None of that excuses mindless penalties. None of that excuses coaching mistakes, like taking your best CB and using him in punt coverage. None of that excuses having 10 men on the field in a crucial situation in a game that was still winnable. None of that excuses the lack of creativity in play-calling, something that was present at the beginning of the year and has disappeared as the Giants play not to lose. No, they are not that talented but that should not be used to excuse every mistake made.
Team has improved greatly  
averagejoe : 12/5/2022 8:38 am : link
A lot of posters here are forgetting what this team looked like last December. What Daboll has done with TEN STARTERS out EVERY WEEK is incredible. The Giants are right there every week competing in the 4th Qtr for a win . Whatever happens I am thankful I can watch the games again.

PS Why do I think Giants can beat Philly ?
Remember we get Darrin Beavers back next year  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/5/2022 8:41 am : link
That's like an additional draft pick 50% of the guys on this roster will be gone. It's a real shame Gentleman wrote Golliday contract so badly that he was unhittable. I'd have rather put the money towards keeping Bradberry imagine him in this defense
RE: I think a lot of people allowed  
LittleBlue : 12/5/2022 8:44 am : link
In comment 15933469 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
their expectations to soar a bit on the back of some positive outcomes early in the season.

It's understandable, but it doesn't justify the worst of the comportment you around here with the childish reactions, hostile behavior toward other opinions, and etc.

Even under the most charitable of microscopes, this roster was always talent-deficient in some really key areas, lacking in quality depth, and operating at the razor's edge in terms of margin for error. The confluence of steady play, good coaching, and really good fortune earlier in the season didn't change that fact.

I understand that many object to the attitude of "aw shucks guys we never dreamed the team would be successful this year so let's be happy". But jesus, we have the month of December packed with critically important football games, and that's something I have missed!


I’m sorry to have to point this out - but Dallas might be the best team in football this year. They are looking like top 3 or 4 at worst. Two of our four losses so far came to Dallas. So the team is 7-2-1 against every team other than maybe the best team in the league.

Unfortunately this year we are one of only 2 teams that have to play 4 games against probably the top 2 teams in football (us and WAS vs DAL and PHI)
RE: I think a lot of people allowed  
Photoguy : 12/5/2022 9:03 am : link
In comment 15933469 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
their expectations to soar a bit on the back of some positive outcomes early in the season.

It's understandable, but it doesn't justify the worst of the comportment you around here with the childish reactions, hostile behavior toward other opinions, and etc.

Even under the most charitable of microscopes, this roster was always talent-deficient in some really key areas, lacking in quality depth, and operating at the razor's edge in terms of margin for error. The confluence of steady play, good coaching, and really good fortune earlier in the season didn't change that fact.

I understand that many object to the attitude of "aw shucks guys we never dreamed the team would be successful this year so let's be happy". But jesus, we have the month of December packed with critically important football games, and that's something I have missed!


Totally agree.
Question for anyone  
5BowlsSoon : 12/5/2022 9:09 am : link
Does anyone know if McKinney and Jackson will be back next week?
Honestly, the coaching staff is doing a great job this year  
Rick in Dallas : 12/5/2022 9:17 am : link
I am on the side of we tore this roster down and are in a total rebuild. The offensive roster of players is a mess.
Who are the keepers:
Thomas, Neal, possibly Gates and Ezeudu on
the OL?
No WR’s imv
TE: Bellinger
QB? What say Schoen and Daboll
RB: Maybe tag Barkley?
DL: Lawrence and Williams
Edge:Thibs and Ojulari
ILB: maybe Beavers?
Secondary: Jackson,Love and X

It’s not a rosy picture!!!!
RE: It was a  
BillyM : 12/5/2022 9:26 am : link
In comment 15933507 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Game that a team headed for the playoffs wins, so it s a bit discouraging

But you are correct, in 2 weeks regardless of what happens against Philly, Giants get to play a very significant game and erase the sour taste from yesterday


Yes, agreed. But Commanders are also a team pushing for the playoffs. It was a hard fought game. We did some great stuff, we did some not so great stuff. The reality of a year one rebuild with new GM and staff
I'm not too worried about it  
rsjem1979 : 12/5/2022 9:35 am : link
This is a work in progress, whether they make the playoffs or not is largely irrelevant given the turnover I expect on the roster by the time they are actually ready to compete at the highest level.

If I thought for a minute this team had a shot in hell at winning the Super Bowl, I'd probably be more upset, but they don't. I'm more worried about the decisions they need to make this offseason. Yesterday's tie isn't a huge setback in the big picture, screwing up the offseason with the QB and RB decisions would be.
I think the team, when healthy, is pretty good  
islander1 : 12/5/2022 9:43 am : link
but it's not. The offense is completely inept when Daniel Jones isn't effective with his feet.

That's why I'm 'doom and gloom'. The defense is beat up, we have trash left in the secondary now. Our offense literally does not function without a DUAL threat of Barkley and Jones. Barkley alone would be fine if we had a passing game worth a damn, but we don't. We literally need both guys popping to allow play action to work effectively.
I'm not sure I'd call beating the Falcons and Texans,  
Mad Mike : 12/5/2022 9:56 am : link
in reasonably competitive games, being one of the hottest teams in the league. The Eagles win was impressive, the next two were simply what a decent team should do. Regardless, if they are that hot, what does that say about our chances against them on the road? One can recognize that this team has made really positive strides this season while objectively recognizing that our remaining schedule is pretty tough. Yesterday's game showed, again, how thin our receiving options are, and some really puzzling playcalling. I think 1.5 is a pretty reasonable over/under for our remaining wins. Maybe a bit higher considering how many close wins Minnesota has had, even with their great record. That doesn't seem doom and gloom, or unrealistic to me, and objectively 8 or 9 wins will be a great first season for the new staff. But it is disappointing given how the season started, and how the team went from finding ways to win close games to... not.
very good post Sean  
Eric on Li : 12/5/2022 10:01 am : link
the reality is that the coaching staff has done a better job than anyone had a right to reasonably expect.

in some ways they've done a better job in the last few weeks than earlier in the year because of the hand they've been dealt with injuries. the secondary is practice squad level.

in others they've been a little worse - the jackson injury was a self inflicted wound and with him healthy they may have won 1 of the last 2. the OL refuses to improve.

overall these things will even out over the course of the season but there's a lot more to be encouraged by than discouraged by. this team has competed and given themselves a chance to win every game regardless of circumstance and will probably continue to do so - including in the playoffs if they get there which is still a pretty decent possibility.
They played well enough yesterday to win, somehow they flushed at  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/5/2022 10:08 am : link
least 3 chances to put this game away. It happens. At least they didn't lose.

Look, when the Giants were 6-1, it was pointed out that the underlying metrics did not support that record and the way the Giants were winning was not sustainable (keep the game close, get plays at the end). And now they've come back down to earth. Although they are undeniably better than last year, I am not sure they are playing worse or better than they were at the beginning of the year, they are just not making the plays at the end or getting the favorable bounces they did at the beginning of the year.

They are who they are. They are going to have to play better (with more injured players) if they are going to get into the playoffs, if that even matters given what is likely to happen.
just to add to this point a little bit - forget W/L record  
Eric on Li : 12/5/2022 10:33 am : link
this roster right now is 8th in point differential in the NFC.

Dallas is +127
Philly is +112
SF is +92
SEA is +14
MIN is +10
WSH & TB are -4
NYG are -7
DET is -9

those are the realistic playoff contenders and the NYG are clearly in the hodgepodge fighting for one of the bottom few spots. that group is so close single plays like Gano's field goal (or no penalty to feliciano, or no penalty last week vs dallas) would have moved the nyg up to 6th.

with remaining games against PHI (x2), WSH, and MIN they are going to have a chance to show that they belong in the playoffs. If anything you could probably say this coaching staff is coaching 'win and in' playoff games from the next WSH game forward.

and with Jimmy G's injury I think they have a realistic chance of upsetting any of these teams on the road if they do get to a real playoff game.
RE: I think a lot of people allowed  
Jerry in_DC : 12/5/2022 10:41 am : link
In comment 15933469 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
their expectations to soar a bit on the back of some positive outcomes early in the season.

It's understandable, but it doesn't justify the worst of the comportment you around here with the childish reactions, hostile behavior toward other opinions, and etc.

Even under the most charitable of microscopes, this roster was always talent-deficient in some really key areas, lacking in quality depth, and operating at the razor's edge in terms of margin for error. The confluence of steady play, good coaching, and really good fortune earlier in the season didn't change that fact.

I understand that many object to the attitude of "aw shucks guys we never dreamed the team would be successful this year so let's be happy". But jesus, we have the month of December packed with critically important football games, and that's something I have missed!


This exactly. We won a bunch of coin flip games against mediocre teams early in the year. It was pretty obvious that run wouldn't continue both because we're going to play better teams and you just don't win every close game.

Either we're going to miss the playoffs, or we're going to make it and get rocked in the 1st round. With 7 playoff teams and a terrible conference the teams fighting for the last spot are pretty bad.

But its fine - we've shown that we have great coaching on both sides of the ball. Our D is kicking ass up front. KT is looking good. Dexter looking good. Thomas good. Neal should be good by next year. This is a very high end outcome for reasonable expectations. We have zero chance to make noise in the playoffs- and that's fine. We never did. The was a tear down year and we had some good things happen along the way.
I have never gulped down...  
bw in dc : 12/5/2022 10:57 am : link
the "we don't have a lot of talent" Kool-Aid.

There is plenty of talent on the defense. And Martindale (and his staff) is complimenting it with good coaching, development, and strategy.

On offense, we have an All-Pro level LT, an interesting rookie RT and some decent parts on the interior. When I look around the league, aside from a select few teams, most OLs are like ours. So, I don't buy this bellyaching that are OL is that bad.

Meanwhile, Barkley is having a terrific year and will likely get decent money when he hits the market.

I know I am in the minority, but Slayton is a good WR who should get the ball more. He's averaging 17+ YPC with 75% if his catches going for first downs. And I actually like what I have seen in spurts from Hodgins and James. Hodgins ran a great, great route on that TD in the 3rd quarter.

Have we been hurt by injuries (and apathy - KG) at the receiver spot? Absolutely. But I think the front office and the staff have done a nice job with what we have.

I know Kafka is becoming the new pinata around here to replace Garrett, but I think he'd done a very nice job. I just wish he and Daboll had more confidence in their QB to take more chances in the passing game. Just think about that Seattle game where Jones was playing QB like he had a blindfold on at times...
Martindale is keeping the team in it  
jeff57 : 12/5/2022 11:01 am : link
Awful inside linebackers, and with all the injuries, a totally depleted secondary and they're still able to keep the other team's offensive from running away with games.
RE: I have never gulped down...  
TheEvilLurker : 12/5/2022 11:06 am : link
In comment 15933897 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the "we don't have a lot of talent" Kool-Aid.

There is plenty of talent on the defense. And Martindale (and his staff) is complimenting it with good coaching, development, and strategy.

On offense, we have an All-Pro level LT, an interesting rookie RT and some decent parts on the interior. When I look around the league, aside from a select few teams, most OLs are like ours. So, I don't buy this bellyaching that are OL is that bad.

Meanwhile, Barkley is having a terrific year and will likely get decent money when he hits the market.

I know I am in the minority, but Slayton is a good WR who should get the ball more. He's averaging 17+ YPC with 75% if his catches going for first downs. And I actually like what I have seen in spurts from Hodgins and James. Hodgins ran a great, great route on that TD in the 3rd quarter.

Have we been hurt by injuries (and apathy - KG) at the receiver spot? Absolutely. But I think the front office and the staff have done a nice job with what we have.

I know Kafka is becoming the new pinata around here to replace Garrett, but I think he'd done a very nice job. I just wish he and Daboll had more confidence in their QB to take more chances in the passing game. Just think about that Seattle game where Jones was playing QB like he had a blindfold on at times...


I agree with you to a point. The Giants have talent, but what they don't have is depth. They are very thin at almost every position
what doom and gloom??  
BillKo : 12/5/2022 11:07 am : link
We are in the playoff hunt, with a subpar roster.

No one is every happy to be honest.

We had Eli Manning and the complaints still were high.

It's just how we are, pushing the negative first because it's easy.
why is it 'doom and gloom'?  
fkap : 12/5/2022 1:18 pm : link
why can't we be positive thinkers who believe we have more talent than we thought, but not enough to sustain us on the thin margin line needed for victory during a very tough part of the schedule?
Back to the Corner