My non-emotional thoughts from yesterday’s game. As always, feel free to add your own, argue with mine, etc…
Giants 20, Commanders 20. I spend the late afternoon explaining to my wife that ties aren’t just for soccer… Very frustrating game from a Giants fan’s perspective. The mood went from “We’re going to get blown out” early in the game to “Okay, we’re going to make this competitive” in the 2nd quarter to points in the 3rd where it turned to “We’re going to run away with this” which quickly turned to “We’re going to blow it”. Technically we tied, so none of these things happened. Either way, there were a multitude of opportunities to win this game, yet we couldn’t just make that one play to stick the dagger in Washington. As always, there was both good and bad in this game, but I understand why most fans feel rather deflated today.
Offense:
Jones – Statistically a good game going 25/31 for 200 yards, 1 TD and another 71 rushing on 12 carries. Its notable that he did have a fumble on drive 1 that lead directly to 3 Washington points. Either way, he rebounded from the fumble and played a decent game within the realm of a very conservative gameplan. Of the 6 incompletions, 1 was a spike and another a blatant drop by Slayton which would have likely resulted in us at least kicking a FG late in the game and more than likely winning. Jones played well but this game does bring up another debate with Jones. If you take out the 1 55 yard completion to Slayton Jones had 24 completions for 145 yards. For most of the game nothing was pushed downfield, and it seemed as if the intention was going to be “throw only if you have to”. The debate that arises is whether this conservative game plan was because the coaching staff doesn’t trust Jones or was it because they don’t trust the supporting cast. We likely won’t find out until the offseason, but in my opinion, Jones outplayed his supporting cast yesterday.
RB – Barkley was the only RB to receive carries yesterday as Jones was a huge part of the running game. While there were a few plays where he looked like early season Saquon, he’s still having some tentative runs. Some say there was a shoulder injury early in the season that started the slide, I’ve noticed him slow down since the 35 carry game against The Texans, either way, I don’t think it would hurt to let Breida and Brightwell take a handful of carries, no more, during the games. If he doesn’t pick things up, its going to make the offseason decision on him much more difficult.
WR – I can say Darius Slayton went 6/8 for 90 yards and had a good game, or I can say he had a bad and obvious drop that cost us the game. Unfortunately, this is Slayton in a nutshell. He’s the only guy we have on this team that can consistently make a play, but he also gives more up than anyone. Hodgins continues to be a very decent “complimentary” guy running a great route to get in the end zone for his first TD. I’d be happy with a guy like him as our 4th or 5th guy making a play here and there, right now he’s our #2, his skill set doesn’t fit that. James caught 3 passes for 20 yards, he’s the only other WR to catch a ball.
TE – Not that Bellinger had a great game by any means, but it was good to see him back. Again, I mention its hard for me to comment on TE blocking without all 22, but Bellinger has a good feel for the game and seems to do a good job getting open on his assignments. 5 targets and 5 receptions for not that many yards, but significant as Jones clearly trusts him as a check down.
OL – To put this simple, the interior of our OL got beat up all day. Yes, we were playing against a DT tandem that rivals our own, but you need to find a way to get some wins on the stat sheet during the game, I didn’t feel the interior did that. Glowinski flashed in a bad way multiple times as did Feliciano. There’s a very good debate to be had regarding how to configure the personnel once everyone is healthy, I’d be open to moving any of these guys if someone can play the position better to them. On a positive note, I didn’t hear the name Evan Neal called, good sign for a tackle on his first game back.
Defense:
DTs – Leonard Williams has been very good this year. Dexter Lawrence has been outright dominate. 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 TFL and 2 QB hits is a hell of a game from a DT, I really hope he finds his way to the Pro Bowl or even All Pro this year, he deserves it. Depth is still and issue with this group though Justin Ellis did grab a rare sack for him. When DJ Davidson went down early in the season, I didn’t think it would have the depth impact it did. Someone needs to spell Lawrence and Williams, they can’t play the snap load they’ve been taking without slowing down.
Edge – Ojulari made an impact in his first game back with a big sack, fumble and recovery that turned into points. He also had a couple more QB hits and was consistently getting pressure. Thibodeaux was again close all game and did get a free rush sack that was close to being a safety. I’ve been waiting for him to explode all year, maybe that free sack sparks something, but more likely having another rushing presence on the other side of the field will help him. Very excited to see what this duo can do as Ojulari knocks off the rust.
MLB – Washington ran the ball 36 times for 165 yards, and I must put a lot of this on the MLBs. Missed tackles, wrong gaps etc… were seen more than once from this group. As the season has progressed, the weaknesses of this group have become more glaring. Worth noting, Tae Crowder was on Twitter complaining about not playing after the game. He hasn’t played well enough this year to run his mouth and was given a ton of chances…
CB – I’m going to start with this, in no way shape or form should we expect Fabian Moreau to line up against Terry McLaurin and win that match up. We were at a disadvantage there going into the game, Washington knew it and they took advantage of it. Later in the game their focus turned to Zyon Gilbert. Long story short, we’re playing guys at this position that are no more than “patchwork players”. We’ve gotten way more out of Moreau than expected this year, but we need to be real, he was a street player brought in to be a 3 or 4, he’s our 1 right this second. Darnay Holmes was a late scratch meaning Gilbert was thrust in at the last minute, he’s a practice squad guy. You can only do so much patching and get production.
S - Julian Love continues to play great but there’s a noticeable drop in talent after him with McKinney on the sidelines. Pinnock flashes here and there and I think has some upside if he hangs around, Jefferson was quiet which may be a good thing for a safety. I didn’t hear Dane Belton’s name once nor do I see him on the stat sheet. He’s clearly taken a fast dive down the depth chart.
Coaching:
I hate coming in and judging the coaching on games like this one. There are a few things I can go through and ask why we did X or why we weren’t more aggressive in a certain situation, but I can also say “If Darius Slayton catches the football” or “Gano kicks the ball a couple yards further” we would have won. What we may need to accept as fans is that this coaching staff’s job is to put the team in position to win and its up to the players to execute and take advantage of it. Bottom line is we had multiple opportunities to win this game and just couldn’t do it. I’d love to see a more opened up offense, but we honestly don’t have the personnel to do it, Wink held a very hot (6-1 in last 7) team to 20 in 5 quarters, but again on a late 4th quarter drive its hard to do a lot with a practice squad nickel and 2 street FA corners as your starters.
On a related note, we had 2 players on Twitter complaining about playing time yesterday, both defensive guys in Tae Crowder and Rodarius Williams. I’m not sure why Williams wasn’t on the field, but Crowder just needs to shut up. This team was predicted to be a 4 or 5 win team, we’re currently 7-4-1, the coaches have given fans and players way more than we could have realistically expected with this roster. If you want to play, shut up, show up to practice and play better…
Conclusion:
Listen, this game was 3 and a half hours of kissing your sister and she isn’t particularly attractive. I get it, its frustrating and we blew some opportunities to win. The negative take away is that we really need a lot more talent on this roster, the positive take away is the coaches found a way to put the team in a position to win if players just executed in certain situations. We’re being hit with the hard reality that we forgot about during our hot streak, which is the roster isn’t that good. I still think we have a couple wins left in us and we have a very real shot at the playoffs. Very tough game next week against an opponent we don’t match up against well. Still, I think you’ll find this a more competitive game than people think it will be. Maybe we’ll steal one from the Eagles…
2. A lot of bitching about the conservative coaching yesterday. Having said that the coaches are trying to win games with hardly any talent on the offensive side of the ball. The interior OL is a mess and we honestly have no real go to WR’s.
3. Barkley is very tentative running the ball. Is he injured or worn out ? Don’t know the answer.
4. We really have no ILB’s worthy of playing in the NFL.Crowder is awful and should shut up.
5. The secondary excluding Love is full of third stringers and PS players.
It’s Fools Gold to think that this is a bonafide playoff team as we are bottom dwellers when it comes to roster talent.
I trust Schoen and Daboll will make the correct decisions on Jones and Barkley this offseason as they continue to rebuild this roster.
One final comment. I agree with Sy that if Jones is not on the roster next year what is the plan at QB????
I'm afraid - this - "Jones again doesn't elevate the offense" It isn't enough that he plays well (he does) he makes no one else better.
Two of my favorite hobby horses that you hit:
DJ played well. SB did not.
My less non-emotional expansion. DJ is a known quantity at this point. He is a good QB who does enough to win games. Who was by far our best offensive player (not named AT) and has been all year. Darius catches that ball we most likely win. Feliciano doesn't go macho man we most likely win. And DJ would be the ONLY REASON on offense. Anyone who does not see this is not watching football. Not saying he is worth $30MM/per. Not even saying he should be re-signed because it is possible he only looks good because the coaches protect him. But for two straight years he has been by far our best non OL offensive player. And yet somehow the losses are his fault.
Now my rant on SB. After a few games this year where SB looked like he might be a legit top level RB like he was his rookie year, he has reverted to form. Outside of two or three games his season has been unimpressive. He was the third best running back on the field yesterday, and if Breida or Brightwell got some runs he might have been lower. And if you can't DJ he was fourth. Even if you thought running backs are worth max contracts (and I think they basically never are) at this point in his career SB is not worth half that. A few weeks ago I would have resigned him at $8 or $9 per, but didn't think he would take it. Now I wouldn't even give him that, and I am not sure he gets anything close to CMC or EE money. I would be shocked if he gets anything more than $10MM and I don't really want him back at any price. Ok the vet minimum but not a price he would (or should) take.
He is best when he gets a short pass an uses his speed to then outrun defenders. Who else does DJ have to throw to deep to help the other receivers"
If there is no long ball then use your defenders to stop the RB and QB runs.
The "$19 million Mistake" continues to gall.
My preference is that Jones is the stop gap.
Either way, the question is how to move forward to getting a permanent QB, not whether Jones is that QB, because it's becoming more obvious that he likely isn't.
As for the game, we blew it with penalties, with drops, with lousy tackling, with suspect coaching.
This ^ It has become apparent to me that Jones is merely adequate at a bunch of things, but his limitations make him exist within a microcosm/macrocosm that does not include the greater picture of how elevate the players around him.
The way the Giants are playing only perfect execution will do and the only improv comes on QB runs, and a lot of them are plain awkward.
Regarding Barkley -- it is very clear his shoulder has become a huge problem. All you have to do is watch him turn his body every time he gears up for impact. It is very clear that he is trying to avoid impact with his injured shoulder.
Quote:
Story of the day were the mistakes and lack of attention to detail, living on the razor's edge in some spots where they didn't need to, eg, the taunting foul when you already know the officiating is spotty. Giants need talent everywhere, Jones again doesn't elevate the offense, and if you didn't believe me the book was out on the offense weeks ago, well, re-watch the game. Wash was in their jocks more often than not. Still, NYG had multiples chances to win the game, and failed.
This ^ It has become apparent to me that Jones is merely adequate at a bunch of things, but his limitations make him exist within a microcosm/macrocosm that does not include the greater picture of how elevate the players around him.
The way the Giants are playing only perfect execution will do and the only improv comes on QB runs, and a lot of them are plain awkward.
Regarding Barkley -- it is very clear his shoulder has become a huge problem. All you have to do is watch him turn his body every time he gears up for impact. It is very clear that he is trying to avoid impact with his injured shoulder.
I forgot to mention that Jones' awkwardness seems to extend to those around him
I don't know the answer, and personally don't care. What's the difference? Once again, Barkley is either not on the field or ineffective late in the season.
Quote:
Story of the day were the mistakes and lack of attention to detail, living on the razor's edge in some spots where they didn't need to, eg, the taunting foul when you already know the officiating is spotty. Giants need talent everywhere, Jones again doesn't elevate the offense, and if you didn't believe me the book was out on the offense weeks ago, well, re-watch the game. Wash was in their jocks more often than not. Still, NYG had multiples chances to win the game, and failed.
I'm afraid - this - "Jones again doesn't elevate the offense" It isn't enough that he plays well (he does) he makes no one else better.
As true as this is just what player(s) do you think he should elevate.
I understand the coaches being conservative, it’s what they’ve done all year, but I question the clock management at the end of the first half. They had a 2nd and 1 at their 34 with all 3 TO’s at the 2-minute warning, and that’s not enough time? Jones gets 2 yards for a 1st down at the DC 9 with 19 seconds left and it takes them 14 seconds to ground the ball? There was simply a lack of urgency on that drive, and it’s not the first time.
I understand the coaches being conservative, it’s what they’ve done all year, but I question the clock management at the end of the first half. They had a 2nd and 1 at their 34 with all 3 TO’s at the 2-minute warning, and that’s not enough time? Jones gets 2 yards for a 1st down at the DC 9 with 19 seconds left and it takes them 14 seconds to ground the ball? There was simply a lack of urgency on that drive, and it’s not the first time.
He doesn’t get credit for a great adjustment to an underthrown ball on the 55 yarder. That translates to a great throw by Jones. When another ball is off target but isn’t caught, that is on Slayton. It is the same dynamic as wins are credited to Jones and losses to everyone but Jones.
I swear if Jones is not on the Giants next year a good chunk of these posters will no longer be Giants fans. They seem to be fine with losing as long as everyone agrees Daniel Jones is a really good QB.
I understand the coaches being conservative, it’s what they’ve done all year, but I question the clock management at the end of the first half. They had a 2nd and 1 at their 34 with all 3 TO’s at the 2-minute warning, and that’s not enough time? Jones gets 2 yards for a 1st down at the DC 9 with 19 seconds left and it takes them 14 seconds to ground the ball? There was simply a lack of urgency on that drive, and it’s not the first time.
The urgency is something you touch on I've noticed. Way too many times late in games I find myself screaming "hurry up, hurry up". I don't know if this is a coaching thing or just Jones' laid back personality, but its a trend. This wasn't the only game you've seen it.
With Slayton, his drops are chronic and that's documented so I have to put that on him. The bottom line is its a ball that should have been caught and a very high majority of NFL receivers catch it. I do try and give him credit for things when he does well but he drops balls, its something you have to swallow with him.
I had the following blurb on him:
Hodgins continues to be a very decent “complimentary” guy running a great route to get in the end zone for his first TD. I’d be happy with a guy like him as our 4th or 5th guy making a play here and there, right now he’s our #2, his skill set doesn’t fit that."
2TEsets work for me
But. I would really like to solidify the front 7 in first 4 picks (. 3rds). ILB, DT
Do a TE or two WRs in the other picks
FA. Vet cb , IOL and ILB too. ( we need 2)
Pray guys like beaver , Marcus M and DJ can come back from injury and provide depth
Leo fan but with that contract and age, might have to think of alternatives
We got a lot of holes
Yes he should know better. Refs are ruining the fuck8ng game
Quote:
but I think you’re being a little tougher on Slayton than he deserves. Yes, he should have caught the ball in questions, but it would have been a good catch. Maybe not as good as the 55 yarder, but close. Which brings up another point, if he’s going to be blamed for the drop on a difficult catch, shouldn’t he get extra credit for an even more difficult catch?
I understand the coaches being conservative, it’s what they’ve done all year, but I question the clock management at the end of the first half. They had a 2nd and 1 at their 34 with all 3 TO’s at the 2-minute warning, and that’s not enough time? Jones gets 2 yards for a 1st down at the DC 9 with 19 seconds left and it takes them 14 seconds to ground the ball? There was simply a lack of urgency on that drive, and it’s not the first time.
The urgency is something you touch on I've noticed. Way too many times late in games I find myself screaming "hurry up, hurry up". I don't know if this is a coaching thing or just Jones' laid back personality, but its a trend. This wasn't the only game you've seen it.
With Slayton, his drops are chronic and that's documented so I have to put that on him. The bottom line is its a ball that should have been caught and a very high majority of NFL receivers catch it. I do try and give him credit for things when he does well but he drops balls, its something you have to swallow with him.
I agree with you on Slayton, he does drop too many, and like I said, he should have caught that ball. Overall, though, I thought he played well. The 55-yarder was a big time play, and he’s done it a couple of times this year.
As far as urgency goes, I think that has to be on the coaches. I think they slow walked things to make sure DC didn’t get the ball back before the half. Can’t play scared.
He doesn’t get credit for a great adjustment to an underthrown ball on the 55 yarder. That translates to a great throw by Jones. When another ball is off target but isn’t caught, that is on Slayton. It is the same dynamic as wins are credited to Jones and losses to everyone but Jones.
I swear if Jones is not on the Giants next year a good chunk of these posters will no longer be Giants fans. They seem to be fine with losing as long as everyone agrees Daniel Jones is a really good QB.
I was watching KC/Cinci yesterday. Mahomnes threw a pass short but the receiver was so wide open that even after slowing down for the ball he was still able to catch it before defenders arrived. No YAC though. One of the announcers describing it a minute later called it a "perfect pass". Every QB throws some imperfect passes that are caught anyway. How those passses are perceived is frequently determined by the QB's reputation or the fan's rooting interest.
I understand some fans of the team are also fans of Jones but I really don't see people going overboard about it. The jones hate on the other hand is unprecedented in its hyperbolic ferocity. I can't explain it but it seems plain to me and I suppose may lead some people to react more strongly in the opposite direction than they might otherwise.
Pass on Barkley and use the money on a wr or guard.
Can't pay Jones much because we have too holes on the roster. You don't draft a qb in the first round when your offense has no talent. Build the offense and then get your qb.
I think Jones is decent. Barkley on the downside of his career. I am beginning to believe its time to move on from both. Take the comp picks.
Quote:
He doesn’t get credit for a great adjustment to an underthrown ball on the 55 yarder. That translates to a great throw by Jones. When another ball is off target but isn’t caught, that is on Slayton. It is the same dynamic as wins are credited to Jones and losses to everyone but Jones.
I swear if Jones is not on the Giants next year a good chunk of these posters will no longer be Giants fans. They seem to be fine with losing as long as everyone agrees Daniel Jones is a really good QB.
I was watching KC/Cinci yesterday. Mahomnes threw a pass short but the receiver was so wide open that even after slowing down for the ball he was still able to catch it before defenders arrived. No YAC though. One of the announcers describing it a minute later called it a "perfect pass". Every QB throws some imperfect passes that are caught anyway. How those passses are perceived is frequently determined by the QB's reputation or the fan's rooting interest.
I understand some fans of the team are also fans of Jones but I really don't see people going overboard about it. The jones hate on the other hand is unprecedented in its hyperbolic ferocity. I can't explain it but it seems plain to me and I suppose may lead some people to react more strongly in the opposite direction than they might otherwise.
I was thinking about this last night. This is a Giants site and of course it is for debate, but you say anything positive about the QB and instantly one of a group of posters appears to counter it, call you a fanboy or worse or just lambast you. The Giants have an extremely obvious group of positions that are truly awful, yet every game it is Daniel Jones fault no matter what else happens. Some of these posters are kids who think they're clever but are in that "boy am I smart phase" but there are others who are knowledgeable but immediately blame the QB. Jones played well yesterday and right away the board is filled with posts blaming him for the loss(it was a tie actually but a loss looks better for their narrative) or more subtlety using the old "A better QB and we win this game. I watched the Bengal game yesterday and while I love Burrow those receivers make a ton of plays for him. The Giants do not have anything close to that, but mention it and you get shouted down. The hate for Jones is simply off the hook and really quite strange now.
I don't hate Daniel Jones. He's just not good.
Yes, Slayton had a good game and yes he should have caught that pass late in the game - both hands securely on the ball.
There is absolutely something wrong with Barkley. He had a few occasions on short yardage to make a 1st that he simply did not get after it. We do need to see Breida and Brightwell a little more.
Thanks for keeping it real.