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Coaches' conservative play calling RE: Jones- Makes no sense

Jerz44 : 12/5/2022 8:45 am
As a Jones truther, I've seen enough this year to think he could be the guy. He's done everything they've asked him to do. When given the chance to throw (e.g., the long balls to Slayton or on 3rd and longs), he's been largely successful.

I don't really understand why Daboll/Kafka are basically using the Garrett strategy of conservative play calling and limiting mistakes.

As far as I can tell, they either don't trust Jones or don't trust the line / WRs (or both).

Either way, though, playing so conservatively this late in the season doesn't make much sense to me.

1. If the coaches are uncertain if Daniel Jones is their guy, why not test him and see what he can do? Either way, they get their answer.

2. If the coaches are confident he is NOT their guy, why not cut him loose more? No one would blame this staff if they would have gone 5-11 or anything. As fun as this ride has been, they're almost certainly not winning the Super Bowl so I'm not sure why they're trying to eek out wins like this.

3. If the coaches trust Jones but not the rest of the offense, again what's the benefit of keeping him on such a tight leash?

In short, the offense clearly isn't working anymore. They can't scheme like they used to because teams are catching on. If they're going to do anything for the rest of the season, they have to let DJ throw the ball more.
Jones throws a very good deep ball  
Costy16 : 12/5/2022 8:49 am : link
And has throughout his entire career. I agree it's perplexing, but some of it is the WR's they have.

Slayton is the only true deep threat they like to use.
I don't think you can say it makes no sense  
j_rud : 12/5/2022 8:50 am : link
Whatever the recipe is for the reasoning (some combo of mistrust of the OL, skill players, and QB) it does make sense and it has worked.

But it's not working any more, and if they're gonna have any success moving forward they're gonna have to take some risks with the offense. But they can't keep going to the well, it isn't working anymore. Yesterday Kafka called a poor game but he's a first time OC, let's see what he comes up with.
....  
ryanmkeane : 12/5/2022 8:50 am : link
the reason they don't throw it deep is because the WRs we have almost have zero chance to catch contested passes. Slayton got one this week and against Dallas, but look at the one he dropped yesterday. If you're a good WR in the NFL you make that catch.
.  
ChrisRick : 12/5/2022 8:52 am : link
I don't think things are as simple as you stated. I think the coaches give Jones shot plays where he is asked to be smart (aggressiveness depending on the game situation) with safe routes built in to take what the defense gives him.

I think the coaching staff has done a very good job with this offense. They simply do not have the players to open up anything. I think deciding to let Jones throw it all around the field without considering the opponent is a good way to put your quarterback in bad situations way too often.

I also think Jones has some to do with this as well. I think teams are very comfortable playing pass defense against this offense because of the lack of targets and Jones' lack of ability to make things happen in the pass game.
This regime trusts  
Kanavis : 12/5/2022 8:52 am : link
SB far too much and does not trust DJ enough. DJs main issues are always on display...but he has played well enough to earn more trust. And if you don't trust him or the supporting cast at all, then why air it out deep for 2 consecutive plays in that sequence.
RE: ....  
crooza172 : 12/5/2022 8:53 am : link
In comment 15933611 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the reason they don't throw it deep is because the WRs we have almost have zero chance to catch contested passes. Slayton got one this week and against Dallas, but look at the one he dropped yesterday. If you're a good WR in the NFL you make that catch.


OBJ would have made that catch. And we would have won. One person can definitely make a difference.
After the rough start  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/5/2022 8:54 am : link
to the game the offense was working fine. Look at the play count, yardage and break down of pass/run. It was very close to the first 7 games outside the turnover. Compare to the 2nd half. So the question that has to be answered is why the disparity and where were the issues?

Good analysis of offense and Jones  
bluewave : 12/5/2022 8:55 am : link
It a GREAT WATCH!


Click Here - ( New Window )
The conservative playcalling  
HomerJones45 : 12/5/2022 8:56 am : link
got us to 6-2 or whatever we were. Jones is not a good qb. he's a limited qb. He's got a limited program so the ball comes out quickly, limits turnovers and limits reads, none of which he is particularly good at. When you get it into your skulls that he does nothing well passing the ball, all will become clear to you.
I agree  
Jerry in_DC : 12/5/2022 8:58 am : link
Largely the coaches have done an outstanding job this year. The one thing they are guilty of IMO is too much short-termism. Both in overworking Barkley and in hiding Jones.

With Barkley they pushed him too hard early in the year to get wins. With Jones, they are obviously trying to hide him because of his massive limitations in the passing game. But this is not a year where we are going to be seriously competing. I'd much rather have given him a chance to fail in a real NFL offense.

The counter point would be what happened to the Colts last night. They ran a conventional passing game against Dallas and got throttled in the 2nd half. Same thing would be likely to happen to us, but there's probably long term benefit to seeing it actually happen and validating the hypothesis that Jones can't run an NFL passing attack.
RE: Jones throws a very good deep ball  
cosmicj : 12/5/2022 8:59 am : link
In comment 15933605 Costy16 said:
Quote:
And has throughout his entire career. I agree it's perplexing, but some of it is the WR's they have.

Slayton is the only true deep threat they like to use.


Jones isn’t accurate downfield consistently. Don’t delude yourself.
Jones rarely gets a clean pocket. Maybe one play in 10.  
Ivan15 : 12/5/2022 9:00 am : link
It looks like playground football out there. More like trying to shoot a basketball against an NBA team. Watch the other games and name a team that gives the QB less to work with than the Giants.
It’s not Jones it’s the WR and OL  
BillT : 12/5/2022 9:01 am : link
They know they can’t count on those guys getting open or the line providing enough time. So, two of the three things they need to execute a passing game are an issue. Maybe the return of Bellinger adds enough to open it up a little.
Whether your for, against, or inbetween on Jones.  
thefan : 12/5/2022 9:09 am : link
The play calling was bad. If Sy is reading, I'd love to get hear his take on the play calling in his takeaway section.
RE: Jones rarely gets a clean pocket. Maybe one play in 10.  
Stratman : 12/5/2022 9:16 am : link
In comment 15933633 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
It looks like playground football out there. More like trying to shoot a basketball against an NBA team. Watch the other games and name a team that gives the QB less to work with than the Giants.


This.
RE: Jones rarely gets a clean pocket. Maybe one play in 10.  
ajr2456 : 12/5/2022 9:18 am : link
In comment 15933633 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
It looks like playground football out there. More like trying to shoot a basketball against an NBA team. Watch the other games and name a team that gives the QB less to work with than the Giants.


This just isn’t true.
If they didn't think Jones was good enough  
Tom from LI : 12/5/2022 9:19 am : link
or not trust him, then bring in Taylor.

I think it is more they don't trust the line and wr's.

They are coaching to win  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/5/2022 9:19 am : link
I think part of the offensive strategy is keeping the clock churning. Incompletions stop the clock. With the way WFT was moving the ball it was not wise to put our injured and getting tired D back on the field.

It also suggests to me that are not very confident in getting completions. You can debate why that is but I think this is being kept in mind with how the call the game based on where the game is in the moment. They were up for a bit in the 2nd half.
The fact that  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 9:39 am : link
we have been in the last few games with this pathetic bunch or WRs and TEs let alone an OL missing key starters says volumes of the type of QB we have.. How many cant see it is beyond me.. The guy is a gamer with no margin for error none BTW his WRs lead the league in dropped passes and it aint even close. But yeah lets blame the QB lol Giants fans are stupid

-Did you watch Dak last night continually shit the bed until things clicked, and his D kept giving him the ball? Did you watch really? Jones doesnt have that luxury, Giants dont have that luxury. Did you watch Justin MVP Hurtz no matter where he put it his WRs came down with the ball, Slayton dropped it -ball game and his Philly D stopped the other team to give oppty after drive oppty? Some were great throws and a lot werent it didnt matter.. Our D couldnt get off the field. 4th and 21?! Our secondary was shit, missing too many people on D.. How about 4th and ball game -Wash WR wide open?!
Did you watch Herbert did you see the throws he left on the field No? not many bc his guys caught the freakin ball!

Team needs players this has been a vry good year given the circumstances, But we dont have the talent to compete at a high level.. But i like the teams grittiness and i like the players they are adding QB is not the problem right now. WR is OL is LBr is TE is great to see Belly back, LEt them keep adding talent.
They let him air it out in the 4th quarter to win the game  
widmerseyebrow : 12/5/2022 9:44 am : link
1st ball was dropped by Slayton. The 2nd and 3rd balls were bad passes with the 3rd nearly picked off.
RE: ....  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 9:44 am : link
In comment 15933611 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the reason they don't throw it deep is because the WRs we have almost have zero chance to catch contested passes. Slayton got one this week and against Dallas, but look at the one he dropped yesterday. If you're a good WR in the NFL you make that catch.


Yes true
The Bills lead the league in dropped passes  
Jerry in_DC : 12/5/2022 9:46 am : link
They have a total of 23. Diggs and Davis are tied for the lead individually with 6 (Kelce and Waddle also have 6).

Barkley has 5. He is the only Giant in the top 20
RE: They let him air it out in the 4th quarter to win the game  
5BowlsSoon : 12/5/2022 9:46 am : link
In comment 15933717 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
1st ball was dropped by Slayton. The 2nd and 3rd balls were bad passes with the 3rd nearly picked off.


Why do you say the 2nd ball was a bad pass?
On Herbert  
Jerry in_DC : 12/5/2022 9:47 am : link
The Chargers have 20 total dropped passes. The Giants also have 20 total dropped passes.
The strategy of conservative play calling and limiting mistakes  
JonC : 12/5/2022 9:48 am : link
has been present throughout all twelves games this season, including yesterday.

But, the book is out on the offense and they're now coaching tight, as the stakes are higher, but the personnel is the same or worse due to injuries. Daboll clearly didn't look to roll the dice yesterday.
RE: It’s not Jones it’s the WR and OL  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 9:52 am : link
In comment 15933634 BillT said:
Quote:
They know they can’t count on those guys getting open or the line providing enough time. So, two of the three things they need to execute a passing game are an issue. Maybe the return of Bellinger adds enough to open it up a little.


Bellinger helps the Run game too
....  
riceneggs : 12/5/2022 9:54 am : link
it's almost like the coaching staff is trying to help get DJ a contract next year.

limiting playbook = limiting mistakes = showing less of DJs flaws...which = justification to bring him back next year

opening up the playbook will exploit his weaknesses and show more flaws in his game. which would encourage ownership to move on from him

its weird
RE: The Bills lead the league in dropped passes  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 9:54 am : link
In comment 15933724 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
They have a total of 23. Diggs and Davis are tied for the lead individually with 6 (Kelce and Waddle also have 6).

Barkley has 5. He is the only Giant in the top 20


Sorry the Giants drop a pass every 15 passes compare to how many times DJ throws vs Josh Allen we lead the league in percentage play drops
RE: On Herbert  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 9:55 am : link
In comment 15933728 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
The Chargers have 20 total dropped passes. The Giants also have 20 total dropped passes.


Drops per pass NOT drops..
BTW for the Dan Jones is inaccurate  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 10:00 am : link
His Accuracy per pass is insane btw CPoE +14! His run avg per play leads the league but he suxx lol -No run game no time no WR. I hope he gets a deal in Indy. BTW Sean Payton is a fan.
use your head  
mittenedman : 12/5/2022 10:01 am : link
This isn’t complicated. It’s obvious the Giants can’t pass block and it’s obvious they are fielding subpar WRs.

Jones may or may not have limitations, but he isn’t so limited that they CAN’T run drop back passes. That’s absurd. Even after all these years, I’m shocked at how ineffective our interior OL is.
RE: BTW for the Dan Jones is inaccurate  
BlueVinnie : 12/5/2022 10:10 am : link
In comment 15933770 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
His Accuracy per pass is insane btw CPoE +14! His run avg per play leads the league but he suxx lol -No run game no time no WR. I hope he gets a deal in Indy. BTW Sean Payton is a fan.

Sean Payton was also a fan of Taysom Hill as Drew Brees' replacement. Just sayin'...
RE: RE: BTW for the Dan Jones is inaccurate  
TheBlueprintNC : 12/5/2022 10:17 am : link
In comment 15933790 BlueVinnie said:
Quote:
In comment 15933770 TheBlueprintNC said:


Quote:


His Accuracy per pass is insane btw CPoE +14! His run avg per play leads the league but he suxx lol -No run game no time no WR. I hope he gets a deal in Indy. BTW Sean Payton is a fan.


Sean Payton was also a fan of Taysom Hill as Drew Brees' replacement. Just sayin'...


lol true. IMO Dan is a much better version no?
Love the notion that the play calling  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 12/5/2022 10:22 am : link
is about trust in the QB, rather than the offensive unit overall. Exactly how many offensive players are plus players? The two tackles? Maybe the TE someday? Sometimes Saquan? The talent is really limited on this team even without injuries.
RE: Good analysis of offense and Jones  
Bill in UT : 12/5/2022 10:25 am : link
In comment 15933622 bluewave said:
Quote:
It a GREAT WATCH!
Click Here - ( New Window )


Shit, you should warn people that it's Bobby and Justin :)
RE: BTW for the Dan Jones is inaccurate  
rsjem1979 : 12/5/2022 10:29 am : link
In comment 15933770 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
I hope he gets a deal in Indy.


Me too. And then after that we'll watch him bounce around as a backup for 10 more years.
.....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 12/5/2022 10:31 am : link
it makes perfect sense if the playcaller doesn't trust Jones.
RE: They let him air it out in the 4th quarter to win the game  
Bill in UT : 12/5/2022 10:32 am : link
In comment 15933717 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
1st ball was dropped by Slayton. The 2nd and 3rd balls were bad passes with the 3rd nearly picked off.


The second pass should not have been called. Slayton had just run a long route with the drop. After taking that shot they should have been thinking 1st down and taking time off the clock. The third was a desperation throw into TRIPLE coverage which would not have been necessary if they had picked up some yards on 2nd down. Did he have another guy open on 3rd down, I have no idea. If so, bad choice by Jones. Otherwise, wth could he do?
RE: RE: RE: BTW for the Dan Jones is inaccurate  
BlueVinnie : 12/5/2022 10:33 am : link
In comment 15933801 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
In comment 15933790 BlueVinnie said:


Quote:


In comment 15933770 TheBlueprintNC said:


Quote:


His Accuracy per pass is insane btw CPoE +14! His run avg per play leads the league but he suxx lol -No run game no time no WR. I hope he gets a deal in Indy. BTW Sean Payton is a fan.


Sean Payton was also a fan of Taysom Hill as Drew Brees' replacement. Just sayin'...



lol true. IMO Dan is a much better version no?

As a QB, I guess so but it's faint praise.
As just an "offensive weapon", I'd probably go with Hill. He's slower but a better runner IMO and also can be used as a receiver in a pinch.
Has nothing to do with trust  
WillVAB : 12/5/2022 10:45 am : link
The coaching staff is playing to the strengths of the roster (defense and running game) and concealing their weaknesses (interior OL and receivers). This is what got them to 7-4-1 when plenty here were predicting a 4 win season.

You can’t manufacture a prolific passing game with their receivers. Most of these guys won’t even be on a NFL roster in ‘23.

Their formula this year and the rest of this year is going to be run the ball, try to keep defenses honest in the passing game, play good defense and try to capitalize off of turnovers while minimizing their own. They’re trying to win not “see what he’s got” and this is the only way with the talent they have.
RE: RE: They let him air it out in the 4th quarter to win the game  
rsjem1979 : 12/5/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15933822 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
The third was a desperation throw into TRIPLE coverage which would not have been necessary if they had picked up some yards on 2nd down. Did he have another guy open on 3rd down, I have no idea. If so, bad choice by Jones. Otherwise, wth could he do?


So we've now reached the point where Jones's only option on that play was to attempt a throw he cannot make into triple coverage instead of doing literally anything else.

Incredible.
It is very strange  
ghost718 : 12/5/2022 11:53 am : link
The coaching staff decides in a tie game that Jones can start winging it.That doesn't really add weight to a lot of the bullshit you read on here.

All I know is,if I was an opposing team,and the Giants tried to get cute with the Jones contract.I'd sign him immediately.
RE: The fact that  
kickoff : 12/5/2022 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15933709 TheBlueprintNC said:
Quote:
we have been in the last few games with this pathetic bunch or WRs and TEs let alone an OL missing key starters says volumes of the type of QB we have.. How many cant see it is beyond me.. The guy is a gamer with no margin for error none BTW his WRs lead the league in dropped passes and it aint even close. But yeah lets blame the QB lol Giants fans are stupid

-Did you watch Dak last night continually shit the bed until things clicked, and his D kept giving him the ball? Did you watch really? Jones doesnt have that luxury, Giants dont have that luxury. Did you watch Justin MVP Hurtz no matter where he put it his WRs came down with the ball, Slayton dropped it -ball game and his Philly D stopped the other team to give oppty after drive oppty? Some were great throws and a lot werent it didnt matter.. Our D couldnt get off the field. 4th and 21?! Our secondary was shit, missing too many people on D.. How about 4th and ball game -Wash WR wide open?!
Did you watch Herbert did you see the throws he left on the field No? not many bc his guys caught the freakin ball!

Team needs players this has been a vry good year given the circumstances, But we dont have the talent to compete at a high level.. But i like the teams grittiness and i like the players they are adding QB is not the problem right now. WR is OL is LBr is TE is great to see Belly back, LEt them keep adding talent.

Telling it like it is. Agree 100%. This kid plays he's heart out every game and is the main reason for the teams competitiveness this year, but the tape recorders keep whining terrible QB. I read some post after games and say what were they watching?
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