Phillies improve way more with that than Mets improve with Verlander.
Devastating.
Supposing Verlander stays healthy (which deGrom didn't do), the Mets have greatly improved. deGrom has pitched about 1/3 of a season each of the past two years.
*Not looking to trade him* but I’m surprised we haven’t heard teams with poor SS situations asking about Guillorme. He’s better than some starting SS’s around the league, he’s also cheap and versatile
Phillies improve way more with that than Mets improve with Verlander.
Devastating.
Supposing Verlander stays healthy (which deGrom didn't do), the Mets have greatly improved. deGrom has pitched about 1/3 of a season each of the past two years.
Mets still down Bassitt, Walker, Nimmo at the moment.
Offense cant hang with the Phillies now if they don't add an impact bat equal to or better than Nimmo
"Sources indicated before Verlander’s signing that the Mets’ other addition beyond an ace will likely be a mid-tier starter in the mold of Taijuan Walker, Jameson Taillon, Sean Manaea or Andrew Heaney. The Mets have at least discussed if not checked in on all of those options from the latter group. On Thursday night and Friday, the Mets again talked with pitchers such as Taillon and Heaney, sources said. Japanese star Kodai Senga and Chris Bassitt are still viewed as options as well, though sources said Bassitt’s market — even despite having a qualifying offer attached to him — is thought to be robust."
why are we doing a gained/loss tally at this point?
They have more holes to fill than most seasons. It's 100% worth tracking. They have 2 RP's who pitched 20 or more innings last season currently on the roster.
games last year and deGrom won 5. The Mets were 6 - 5 in deGrom's starts.
It's really not a high bar for Verlander to do better than 2022 deGrom did for the 2022 Mets.
just need a Bassitt and Walker level signing.
this is obviously just from a rotation standpoint.
And from a lineup standpoint, while a Nimmo loss is a tough one, the Mets also have some top prospects who hope to make an impact in Baty and Alvarez, along with Vientos hopefully as a RH DH.
why are we doing a gained/loss tally at this point?
They have more holes to fill than most seasons. It's 100% worth tracking. They have 2 RP's who pitched 20 or more innings last season currently on the roster.
I get tracking what holes need to be filled. I don't see the point in saying the Mets are a much worse team because they are about 10% into free agency, so of course haven't signed nearly everyone they will in the offseason.
Wow. Steamer very high on Heaney all things considered. Projected 2.6 fWAR, 3.54 FIP, 10.40 K/9, for comparisons sake (Walker 1.4 fWAR, Bassitt 2.5). Hard to rely on a guy like Heaney but if they could pair him with another arm...?
did I say anything about much worse or worse at all? I simply said they have a bunch of holes to fill. That's not even an "opinion" at this point it's factually true. Their current bullpen options are Drew Smith, Edwin Diaz, John Curtiss, Joey Lucchesi, Bryce Montes de Oca, William Woods, Taylor Saucedo, Stephen Nogosek and Stephen Ridings and their current #3 OF is Khalil Lee. It's a work in progress, we all get that.
did I say anything about much worse or worse at all? I simply said they have a bunch of holes to fill. That's not even an "opinion" at this point it's factually true. Their current bullpen options are Drew Smith, Edwin Diaz, John Curtiss, Joey Lucchesi, Bryce Montes de Oca, William Woods, Taylor Saucedo, Stephen Nogosek and Stephen Ridings and their current #3 OF is Khalil Lee. It's a work in progress, we all get that.
My post was not in reference to you. It was to another poster
I absolutely love Jake. But for the years and money, this is a better move. Would anyone be surprised if that contract becomes an albatross for the Rangers in a couple of years?
JV has been durable and his recent campaigns more impressive.
I still have concerns, but the Mets got better.
But shit, I hate seeing Trea Turner back in the division. Total Met killer.
did I say anything about much worse or worse at all? I simply said they have a bunch of holes to fill. That's not even an "opinion" at this point it's factually true. Their current bullpen options are Drew Smith, Edwin Diaz, John Curtiss, Joey Lucchesi, Bryce Montes de Oca, William Woods, Taylor Saucedo, Stephen Nogosek and Stephen Ridings and their current #3 OF is Khalil Lee. It's a work in progress, we all get that.
My post was not in reference to you. It was to another poster
But I too have merely said Mets have a lot of work to do. It's going to take a lot to just get back to same level as last year, let alone be better on paper.
It may indeed come down to hoping they get lucky like Braves did with their rookies...
want to they can deal McCann between TEX reported interest and now STL.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
31m
NEWS: According to @ByRobertMurray
, the St. Louis #Cardinals are interested in trading for James McCann if they miss out on Sean Murphy/among others. #LGM
the Texas stuff wasn't an actual rumor. Buster Olney suggested Texas a fit. He didn't actually suggest they were interested in him aka a "rumor".
Quote:
Buster Olney
@Buster_ESPN
·
Dec 3
As the Rangers look to build around Jacob deGrom, they could explore a deal with the Mets for James McCann, a veteran catcher widely known to be available. McCann is owed $24 million over the next two years, and the Mets could shed at least some of that salary.
let's assume they sign a 2nd tier starter and some BP arms
the entire question with the Mets 2023 lineup is in the middle and bottom of the order.
if Nimmo leaves McNeil likely moves up to leadoff. let's call that a wash.
so then the question is what do they and what do they need to do to improve the middle/bottom of the order that killed them down the stretch?
DH was obviously an issue all year - Vogelbach, Ruf, Vientos, Baty, Alvarez could all factor in and as of right now in some respects the entire season would come down to whether or not some combination of them stepping up to be an impact 5th hitter and good depth to platoon with Escobar and Canha.
Escobar and Canha had ups and downs but should be fine for the 6th/7th spots if utilized effectively.
C depends on Alvarez, CF depends on FA and in theory if they shift either Canha or Marte to CF, a bat like Conforto could also help solve the 5th spot. Marino reported that the Mets did due diligence on Conforto over the last few weeks.
go on record and say I'd be shocked if Marte is in CF opening day. Shocked. I don't believe they actually see him as an option out there. 34 years old, declining CF defense, fragile coming off off-season "core surgery". Marte will be in RF.
I assume dealing mccann will require eating $ or bad contract but
it shouldn't be impossible. even with a ridiculously below his career average 59 RC, he was worth about 1 fwar over 120 games bc of his D. his average exit velocity was actually up pretty significantly over his first year as a met and his BABIP was way below his career average which suggests he hit into some bad luck.
catcher is thin position where a lot of teams have nothing and there are a lot of players making 5-10m across MLB who teams would be fine shedding/swapping.
if the Mets dumped McCann, unless they have some under the radar option they like like Michael Perez, they'd be putting a lot on Alvarez being ready to catch a lot of games in the big leagues. Or they'd have to sign someone who eats into whatever amount of $ they save dealing McCann.
but if they have visions on adding Contreras in sort of a part time C, part time DH, part time LF as some are suggesting, then by all means save whatever you can on mccann. we all thought he could be the missing piece at the deadline, some to the point of being willing to give up a top prospect, so it's not totally crazy.
but all that said i think mccann comes back for 1 more year until they are sure Alvarez is ready defensively.
want to they can deal McCann between TEX reported interest and now STL.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
31m
NEWS: According to @ByRobertMurray
, the St. Louis #Cardinals are interested in trading for James McCann if they miss out on Sean Murphy/among others. #LGM
I bet I'll hate how the cardinals magic fairy dust has him hitting .270 with power.
go on record and say I'd be shocked if Marte is in CF opening day. Shocked. I don't believe they actually see him as an option out there. 34 years old, declining CF defense, fragile coming off off-season "core surgery". Marte will be in RF.
I think it's more likely they'd do Canha actually since that's what they did last year and most of the alternatives are LF'ers. But i expect they will add an external CF like Bellinger and prioritize defense over Conforto.
that's a pretty good debate either way though. Conforto is a good LF and Marte is a good RF so yes you lose some D with Canha in CF, but you can probably find a strong D 4th OF who can platoon with him.
RE: I assume dealing mccann will require eating $ or bad contract but
it shouldn't be impossible. even with a ridiculously below his career average 59 RC, he was worth about 1 fwar over 120 games bc of his D. his average exit velocity was actually up pretty significantly over his first year as a met and his BABIP was way below his career average which suggests he hit into some bad luck.
catcher is thin position where a lot of teams have nothing and there are a lot of players making 5-10m across MLB who teams would be fine shedding/swapping.
if the Mets dumped McCann, unless they have some under the radar option they like like Michael Perez, they'd be putting a lot on Alvarez being ready to catch a lot of games in the big leagues. Or they'd have to sign someone who eats into whatever amount of $ they save dealing McCann.
but if they have visions on adding Contreras in sort of a part time C, part time DH, part time LF as some are suggesting, then by all means save whatever you can on mccann. we all thought he could be the missing piece at the deadline, some to the point of being willing to give up a top prospect, so it's not totally crazy.
but all that said i think mccann comes back for 1 more year until they are sure Alvarez is ready defensively.
They could probably sign a guy like Barnhart/Casali to a minor league deal if need be. McCann (if dealt) will likely be with most of his money eaten or a bad contract like Matz.
this is about as genuine a comment as when Roger Clemens left Boston to play "closer to home" and signed with Toronto.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
this is about as genuine a comment as when Roger Clemens left Boston to play "closer to home" and signed with Toronto.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
has anyone asked bruce about the school systems yet?
for DeJong would save the Mets 13 million. DeJong is not good... at all. But he did post 1.4 fWAR in 2021. I guess it would depend on what the saved money went towards.
the entire question with the Mets 2023 lineup is in the middle and bottom of the order.
if Nimmo leaves McNeil likely moves up to leadoff. let's call that a wash.
so then the question is what do they and what do they need to do to improve the middle/bottom of the order that killed them down the stretch?
DH was obviously an issue all year - Vogelbach, Ruf, Vientos, Baty, Alvarez could all factor in and as of right now in some respects the entire season would come down to whether or not some combination of them stepping up to be an impact 5th hitter and good depth to platoon with Escobar and Canha.
Escobar and Canha had ups and downs but should be fine for the 6th/7th spots if utilized effectively.
C depends on Alvarez, CF depends on FA and in theory if they shift either Canha or Marte to CF, a bat like Conforto could also help solve the 5th spot. Marino reported that the Mets did due diligence on Conforto over the last few weeks.
Eric I follow your logic but I think you undervalue Nimmo and everything he brings to a team...and regarding leadoff itself, sure in a vacuum i get what you are saying but moving McNeil to leadoff just weakens wherever else McNeil was in the lineup.
this is about as genuine a comment as when Roger Clemens left Boston to play "closer to home" and signed with Toronto.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
has anyone asked bruce about the school systems yet?
I'm not sure I follow, but I'm sure the private schools that the deGrom kids will attend are excellent.
this is about as genuine a comment as when Roger Clemens left Boston to play "closer to home" and signed with Toronto.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
has anyone asked bruce about the school systems yet?
I'm not sure I follow, but I'm sure the private schools that the deGrom kids will attend are excellent.
It's a Mike Hampton reference when he left for Colorado
go on record and say I'd be shocked if Marte is in CF opening day. Shocked. I don't believe they actually see him as an option out there. 34 years old, declining CF defense, fragile coming off off-season "core surgery". Marte will be in RF.
LOL, good call Dan. Like six different things would have to go wrong for Marte to be the everyday CFer. Occasional, sure. Backup, fine. 125 games or more, zero chance.
the entire question with the Mets 2023 lineup is in the middle and bottom of the order.
if Nimmo leaves McNeil likely moves up to leadoff. let's call that a wash.
so then the question is what do they and what do they need to do to improve the middle/bottom of the order that killed them down the stretch?
DH was obviously an issue all year - Vogelbach, Ruf, Vientos, Baty, Alvarez could all factor in and as of right now in some respects the entire season would come down to whether or not some combination of them stepping up to be an impact 5th hitter and good depth to platoon with Escobar and Canha.
Escobar and Canha had ups and downs but should be fine for the 6th/7th spots if utilized effectively.
C depends on Alvarez, CF depends on FA and in theory if they shift either Canha or Marte to CF, a bat like Conforto could also help solve the 5th spot. Marino reported that the Mets did due diligence on Conforto over the last few weeks.
Eric I follow your logic but I think you undervalue Nimmo and everything he brings to a team...and regarding leadoff itself, sure in a vacuum i get what you are saying but moving McNeil to leadoff just weakens wherever else McNeil was in the lineup.
5 WAR players don't grow on trees..
Conforto averaged 4+ fwar as a COF from 2017-2020. 4 straight years (or 3.33 adjusted for the short covid year). he was worth 1.4 fwar in his "bad" 2021.
Canha was worth almost 3 fwar last year as a COF, and even playing a mediocre CF that would probably bump up thanks to positional value if shifted over full time.
yes you would need to find a strong defensive 4th OF'er, but Conforto is literally going to cost somewhere around 10% the commitment Nimmo is going to require and i think there's an argument the lineup has improved since he's probably a more protypical 5 hitter than mcneil (though the defense has gotten worse in CF). or you can sign Bellinger over Conforto to get the strong CF'er and look to find a complementary middle order OF bat to mix in with Canha in LF.
Phillies improve way more with that than Mets improve with Verlander.
Devastating.
Phillies improve way more with that than Mets improve with Verlander.
Devastating.
Supposing Verlander stays healthy (which deGrom didn't do), the Mets have greatly improved. deGrom has pitched about 1/3 of a season each of the past two years.
Quote:
makes this day a net negative.
Phillies improve way more with that than Mets improve with Verlander.
Devastating.
Supposing Verlander stays healthy (which deGrom didn't do), the Mets have greatly improved. deGrom has pitched about 1/3 of a season each of the past two years.
Mets still down Bassitt, Walker, Nimmo at the moment.
Offense cant hang with the Phillies now if they don't add an impact bat equal to or better than Nimmo
Verlander, Hernandez, Brigham
They have many holes to fill (not even including the fact they have 3 total OF's on the 40 man roster as of right now)
No doubt Mets and Braves were better last year, but Turner brings the Phillies up to that level and Mets are behind where they were right now..
It's really not a high bar for Verlander to do better than 2022 deGrom did for the 2022 Mets.
just need a Bassitt and Walker level signing.
this is obviously just from a rotation standpoint.
Because I'm emotionally distraught with the Phillies move...lol
They have more holes to fill than most seasons. It's 100% worth tracking. They have 2 RP's who pitched 20 or more innings last season currently on the roster.
It's really not a high bar for Verlander to do better than 2022 deGrom did for the 2022 Mets.
just need a Bassitt and Walker level signing.
this is obviously just from a rotation standpoint.
And from a lineup standpoint, while a Nimmo loss is a tough one, the Mets also have some top prospects who hope to make an impact in Baty and Alvarez, along with Vientos hopefully as a RH DH.
Quote:
why are we doing a gained/loss tally at this point?
They have more holes to fill than most seasons. It's 100% worth tracking. They have 2 RP's who pitched 20 or more innings last season currently on the roster.
I get tracking what holes need to be filled. I don't see the point in saying the Mets are a much worse team because they are about 10% into free agency, so of course haven't signed nearly everyone they will in the offseason.
My post was not in reference to you. It was to another poster
I absolutely love Jake. But for the years and money, this is a better move. Would anyone be surprised if that contract becomes an albatross for the Rangers in a couple of years?
JV has been durable and his recent campaigns more impressive.
I still have concerns, but the Mets got better.
But shit, I hate seeing Trea Turner back in the division. Total Met killer.
I was told Ben Verlander is the price of signing Justin Verlander. Apparently he's an annoying troll or something.
Quote:
said "Justin is pumped" about joining the Mets and pitching in NY
I was told Ben Verlander is the price of signing Justin Verlander. Apparently he's an annoying troll or something.
Not really a "troll" just kind of annoying. He's nothing like Sheffield's son. Verlander is pretty harmless tbh.
Quote:
said "Justin is pumped" about joining the Mets and pitching in NY
I was told Ben Verlander is the price of signing Justin Verlander. Apparently he's an annoying troll or something.
Whatever he is, he is more than offset by Kate Upton flipping off Phillie fans
Quote:
In comment 15934744 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
said "Justin is pumped" about joining the Mets and pitching in NY
I was told Ben Verlander is the price of signing Justin Verlander. Apparently he's an annoying troll or something.
Whatever he is, he is more than offset by Kate Upton flipping off Phillie fans
I had her swimsuit edition cover made into a poster when I was younger. You do not have to convince me, lmao
Quote:
did I say anything about much worse or worse at all? I simply said they have a bunch of holes to fill. That's not even an "opinion" at this point it's factually true. Their current bullpen options are Drew Smith, Edwin Diaz, John Curtiss, Joey Lucchesi, Bryce Montes de Oca, William Woods, Taylor Saucedo, Stephen Nogosek and Stephen Ridings and their current #3 OF is Khalil Lee. It's a work in progress, we all get that.
My post was not in reference to you. It was to another poster
But I too have merely said Mets have a lot of work to do. It's going to take a lot to just get back to same level as last year, let alone be better on paper.
It may indeed come down to hoping they get lucky like Braves did with their rookies...
Quote:
In comment 15934744 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
said "Justin is pumped" about joining the Mets and pitching in NY
I was told Ben Verlander is the price of signing Justin Verlander. Apparently he's an annoying troll or something.
Whatever he is, he is more than offset by Kate Upton flipping off Phillie fans
I mean...anyone who hates the Phillies is welcome in my book
Link - ( New Window )
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
31m
NEWS: According to @ByRobertMurray
, the St. Louis #Cardinals are interested in trading for James McCann if they miss out on Sean Murphy/among others. #LGM
@Buster_ESPN
·
Dec 3
As the Rangers look to build around Jacob deGrom, they could explore a deal with the Mets for James McCann, a veteran catcher widely known to be available. McCann is owed $24 million over the next two years, and the Mets could shed at least some of that salary.
if Nimmo leaves McNeil likely moves up to leadoff. let's call that a wash.
so then the question is what do they and what do they need to do to improve the middle/bottom of the order that killed them down the stretch?
DH was obviously an issue all year - Vogelbach, Ruf, Vientos, Baty, Alvarez could all factor in and as of right now in some respects the entire season would come down to whether or not some combination of them stepping up to be an impact 5th hitter and good depth to platoon with Escobar and Canha.
Escobar and Canha had ups and downs but should be fine for the 6th/7th spots if utilized effectively.
C depends on Alvarez, CF depends on FA and in theory if they shift either Canha or Marte to CF, a bat like Conforto could also help solve the 5th spot. Marino reported that the Mets did due diligence on Conforto over the last few weeks.
catcher is thin position where a lot of teams have nothing and there are a lot of players making 5-10m across MLB who teams would be fine shedding/swapping.
if the Mets dumped McCann, unless they have some under the radar option they like like Michael Perez, they'd be putting a lot on Alvarez being ready to catch a lot of games in the big leagues. Or they'd have to sign someone who eats into whatever amount of $ they save dealing McCann.
but if they have visions on adding Contreras in sort of a part time C, part time DH, part time LF as some are suggesting, then by all means save whatever you can on mccann. we all thought he could be the missing piece at the deadline, some to the point of being willing to give up a top prospect, so it's not totally crazy.
but all that said i think mccann comes back for 1 more year until they are sure Alvarez is ready defensively.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
31m
NEWS: According to @ByRobertMurray
, the St. Louis #Cardinals are interested in trading for James McCann if they miss out on Sean Murphy/among others. #LGM
I bet I'll hate how the cardinals magic fairy dust has him hitting .270 with power.
I think it's more likely they'd do Canha actually since that's what they did last year and most of the alternatives are LF'ers. But i expect they will add an external CF like Bellinger and prioritize defense over Conforto.
that's a pretty good debate either way though. Conforto is a good LF and Marte is a good RF so yes you lose some D with Canha in CF, but you can probably find a strong D 4th OF who can platoon with him.
catcher is thin position where a lot of teams have nothing and there are a lot of players making 5-10m across MLB who teams would be fine shedding/swapping.
if the Mets dumped McCann, unless they have some under the radar option they like like Michael Perez, they'd be putting a lot on Alvarez being ready to catch a lot of games in the big leagues. Or they'd have to sign someone who eats into whatever amount of $ they save dealing McCann.
but if they have visions on adding Contreras in sort of a part time C, part time DH, part time LF as some are suggesting, then by all means save whatever you can on mccann. we all thought he could be the missing piece at the deadline, some to the point of being willing to give up a top prospect, so it's not totally crazy.
but all that said i think mccann comes back for 1 more year until they are sure Alvarez is ready defensively.
They could probably sign a guy like Barnhart/Casali to a minor league deal if need be. McCann (if dealt) will likely be with most of his money eaten or a bad contract like Matz.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
has anyone asked bruce about the school systems yet?
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
1m
Free-agent reliever Carlos Estevez in agreement with the Angels, source tells @TheAthletic
.
if Nimmo leaves McNeil likely moves up to leadoff. let's call that a wash.
so then the question is what do they and what do they need to do to improve the middle/bottom of the order that killed them down the stretch?
DH was obviously an issue all year - Vogelbach, Ruf, Vientos, Baty, Alvarez could all factor in and as of right now in some respects the entire season would come down to whether or not some combination of them stepping up to be an impact 5th hitter and good depth to platoon with Escobar and Canha.
Escobar and Canha had ups and downs but should be fine for the 6th/7th spots if utilized effectively.
C depends on Alvarez, CF depends on FA and in theory if they shift either Canha or Marte to CF, a bat like Conforto could also help solve the 5th spot. Marino reported that the Mets did due diligence on Conforto over the last few weeks.
Eric I follow your logic but I think you undervalue Nimmo and everything he brings to a team...and regarding leadoff itself, sure in a vacuum i get what you are saying but moving McNeil to leadoff just weakens wherever else McNeil was in the lineup.
5 WAR players don't grow on trees..
Quote:
this is about as genuine a comment as when Roger Clemens left Boston to play "closer to home" and signed with Toronto.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
has anyone asked bruce about the school systems yet?
I'm not sure I follow, but I'm sure the private schools that the deGrom kids will attend are excellent.
Quote:
In comment 15934851 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
this is about as genuine a comment as when Roger Clemens left Boston to play "closer to home" and signed with Toronto.
GENY Mets Report
@genymets
·
15m
"How committed he was to playing on a winner. I think he liked the fact that we are in the process of building a winning culture in Texas."
~ #Rangers Manager, Bruce Bochy on Jacob deGrom's decision to go to Texas.
has anyone asked bruce about the school systems yet?
I'm not sure I follow, but I'm sure the private schools that the deGrom kids will attend are excellent.
It's a Mike Hampton reference when he left for Colorado
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
1m
Free-agent reliever Carlos Estevez in agreement with the Angels, source tells @TheAthletic
.
OUCH
LOL, good call Dan. Like six different things would have to go wrong for Marte to be the everyday CFer. Occasional, sure. Backup, fine. 125 games or more, zero chance.
Quote:
the entire question with the Mets 2023 lineup is in the middle and bottom of the order.
if Nimmo leaves McNeil likely moves up to leadoff. let's call that a wash.
so then the question is what do they and what do they need to do to improve the middle/bottom of the order that killed them down the stretch?
DH was obviously an issue all year - Vogelbach, Ruf, Vientos, Baty, Alvarez could all factor in and as of right now in some respects the entire season would come down to whether or not some combination of them stepping up to be an impact 5th hitter and good depth to platoon with Escobar and Canha.
Escobar and Canha had ups and downs but should be fine for the 6th/7th spots if utilized effectively.
C depends on Alvarez, CF depends on FA and in theory if they shift either Canha or Marte to CF, a bat like Conforto could also help solve the 5th spot. Marino reported that the Mets did due diligence on Conforto over the last few weeks.
Eric I follow your logic but I think you undervalue Nimmo and everything he brings to a team...and regarding leadoff itself, sure in a vacuum i get what you are saying but moving McNeil to leadoff just weakens wherever else McNeil was in the lineup.
5 WAR players don't grow on trees..
Conforto averaged 4+ fwar as a COF from 2017-2020. 4 straight years (or 3.33 adjusted for the short covid year). he was worth 1.4 fwar in his "bad" 2021.
Canha was worth almost 3 fwar last year as a COF, and even playing a mediocre CF that would probably bump up thanks to positional value if shifted over full time.
yes you would need to find a strong defensive 4th OF'er, but Conforto is literally going to cost somewhere around 10% the commitment Nimmo is going to require and i think there's an argument the lineup has improved since he's probably a more protypical 5 hitter than mcneil (though the defense has gotten worse in CF). or you can sign Bellinger over Conforto to get the strong CF'er and look to find a complementary middle order OF bat to mix in with Canha in LF.
btw career fwar:
Nimmo = 17.9
Conforto = 19.3
Bellinger = 17.3
buy low sell high. if the price on Nimmo gets too high let someone else pay it and take back the comp pick.
He's going to have to really, REALLY want to be a career Met to be coming back. Odds, optimistically, are 5%.