Giants Trade B.J. Hill for Billy Price (8/30/21)

Ugh, to be reminded. Awful trade. Remember Gettleman saying the OL was set last year just to panic and make those trades before the season?

And how he left the WR Corp it’s amazing that he still has some fans on this board

Our DL and MLB picks this year are essentially useless. Takes two years to really recover from ACL tears. Shoen has a TON of spots to fill! Feel bad for him in that respect!

In comment 15935307 Sean said:

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Ugh, to be reminded. Awful trade. Remember Gettleman saying the OL was set last year just to panic and make those trades before the season?

Quite a GM, our former guy... smartest one in the room!

Double ugh.

In comment 15935312 ajr2456 said:

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And how he left the WR Corp it’s amazing that he still has some fans on this board

Yep. No matter how one wants to balance the Dave Gettleman scales, they just won't balance. And probably no one knows that better than Joe Schoen!

There wasn't too much the last FO did well at - if any. We liked Hill, but he really was not getting playing time.

Keep dwelling on this and you will get an ulcer.

End of story

?

said DL was a strength of the team and a numbers game. They wanted to add some special teams players which was a big thing with him.

Not sure they could fit him with some of the CAP limitations.

It would be great if they can find someone like this in next years drafts in a later round to add to the rotation.

But dear god did he mismanage the DT position despite actually having talent at the position.

Going into 2019 we had BJ Hill and Davlin Tomlinson as starters and had just spent a first round pick on Dexter Lawrence. These 3 players are a very good trio on their own.

At the deadline Gettleman gave up picks to acquire Leonard Williams, who is I will admit, was the best of the 3 at the time. However he then gave Williams a massive amount of money between franchise tags and bad contracts. The result was having to let Dalvin Tomlinson walk and subsequently the trade of BJ Hill.

Going into the 2023 season, the end result is Leonard Williams (who is still a very good player) will have a cap hit equal to that of Dexter Lawrence, BJ Hill and Dalvin Tomlinson combined. Meaning if we stood pat we could have still had 3 very good DTs and an extra 30 mil in cap space...

And I understand Williams cap number next season is inflated by restructures, but decisions like the one above are exactly what put us in the position to have to keep restructuring guys like Williams, Golladay and Jackson.

Problem being that his player evaluation was pretty abysmal. He made a lot of moves in both FA and draft but he pretty much only hit on Andrew Thomas.

I guess.

Of all Getty's failures, bringing in LW was not high on the list.

Denying that was an awful trade

He wasn’t functionally strong enough to play in the league. Isn’t that the first question you try to answer about an Interior OL?

With Leo and Dex, they weren’t going to pay BJ of Dalvin

Which is lot more than what he inherited which was garbage. He gave us Neal through trade with Chicago, Thomas, Barkley, Jones, Mckinney, Adoree Jackson, Dexter Lawrence, Jones, Love and maybe Gates. This is so much better than what he got from Reese. Gettlemans biggest mistake was Solder who was universally applauded on this board but his salary hurt future caps.

was not having a solid OL by year 2 and a good one by year 3. For me it is the second biggest mistake made by this franchise in my just over 40 years of fandom. This was one half of fixing the great destruction with the other and bigger part of that deal still needing more which is even worse considering he added a QB at pick 6.

As bad as he was he did add some very good players (some elite) and much more on the D side. Not nearly enough to counter all the bad moves but to say he just left Thomas.....

Odell, Sheppard, Tomlinson, Vernon, Jenkins and the second pick in every round. And he botched it from the start.

They under rostered OL and were somehow devastated by only 2 OL injuries to guys that had zero NFL track record to that point. I don't think it was nearly as bad as it looks now though considering BJ Hill was an impending FA that we had no way of signing the next offseason.

To me, it's not an apples to apples talent decision but more a symptom of how awful the previous regime was on roster allocation. BJ Hill was buried on the depth chart and expendable because of an over investment in a non-premium position in a condensed period of time (IDL) and a very reactive approach to OL development (our tendency to shop hungry at the position while under investing in developmental prospects).

The salary cap mess DG left would have made it impossible to resign him. Terrible trade, hated to see him go. But, as far as keeping him his fate, along with others, was sealed by the mismanagement of the previous FO.

Do we really believe Gettleman was a big thinker? He was just mashing buttons.

also traded a seventh round pick with Hill.

In comment 15935337 Biteymax22 said:

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But dear god did he mismanage the DT position despite actually having talent at the position. Going into 2019 we had BJ Hill and Davlin Tomlinson as starters and had just spent a first round pick on Dexter Lawrence. These 3 players are a very good trio on their own. At the deadline Gettleman gave up picks to acquire Leonard Williams, who is I will admit, was the best of the 3 at the time. However he then gave Williams a massive amount of money between franchise tags and bad contracts. The result was having to let Dalvin Tomlinson walk and subsequently the trade of BJ Hill. Going into the 2023 season, the end result is Leonard Williams (who is still a very good player) will have a cap hit equal to that of Dexter Lawrence, BJ Hill and Dalvin Tomlinson combined. Meaning if we stood pat we could have still had 3 very good DTs and an extra 30 mil in cap space... And I understand Williams cap number next season is inflated by restructures, but decisions like the one above are exactly what put us in the position to have to keep restructuring guys like Williams, Golladay and Jackson.

Oh, boy!

f********************ck that guy

That one actually happened years before that. Linval Joseph.

I think Austin and Hankins were two of the players to fill in for that one. For DT at least we have Williams and Lawrence which is arguably a top 3 tandem. Other than some depth I think our DL has a chance to be very special in short order.

He traded BJ Hill AND a draft pick for Billy Price!

In comment 15935347 sharp315 said:

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Problem being that his player evaluation was pretty abysmal. He made a lot of moves in both FA and draft but he pretty much only hit on Andrew Thomas.

It was a scattershot approach. If you compare it to what we have already seen from Schoen there is no comparison. DG drafted 1 OL in his first two drafts combined Schoen signed 6 OL in FA and drafted three more in his first year. . That’s what trying hard to fix an OL looks like..

In comment 15935322 section125 said:

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There wasn't too much the last FO did well at - if any. We liked Hill, but he really was not getting playing time. Keep dwelling on this and you will get an ulcer.

THIS

In comment 15935347 sharp315 said:

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Problem being that his player evaluation was pretty abysmal. He made a lot of moves in both FA and draft but he pretty much only hit on Andrew Thomas.

...tried really hard.. he drafted two total OL in his first three drafts. TWO!

That is not trying hard. Also throwing big money at bad UFAs is not trying hard.

Coming out of the 2021 offseason period the Giants made these decisions regarding notable defensive linemen:

- Sign Leonard Williams to 3/61M (45M guaranteed)
- Sign Danny Shelton 1/1.2M
- Sign Austin Johnson 1/3M
- Lose Dalvin Tomlinson at 2/21M
- Trade BJ Hill for Billy Price

These contracts span different years, but just a sense of the buying power Gettleman had, and how much these players cost from 2021 forward:

- Leonard Williams 3/61M
- Danny Shelton - 2/1.5M
- Austin Johnson - 2/14M
- Dalvin Tomlinson - 2/21M
- BJ Hill - 3/30M

and our o line still stinks

Is there another football team that has gone 10 years with a shitty o line.

and then we argue over whether the problem is the running back or the qb. Which one should we keep.

I would say with a good o line we would want to keep both players. But with a shitty line does it matter who is the qb or running back.

I don't care how many draft picks we use this year on o line. Get the problem fixed once and for all.

...

In comment 15935378 ajr2456 said:

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Odell, Sheppard, Tomlinson, Vernon, Jenkins and the second pick in every round. And he botched it from the start.

Odell was re-signed and was traded on his own wrongdoing.

Shepard just hasn't been healthy over the past four years.

Tomlinson is solid but not worth his pay.

Vernon was good but often hurt.

Jenkins was a Mara decision in my view. Calling a fan a retard and then his play was also slipping. He didn't do much after leaving anyway.

2nd pick I agree with.

In comment 15935442 kelly said:

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and our o line still stinks Is there another football team that has gone 10 years with a shitty o line. and then we argue over whether the problem is the running back or the qb. Which one should we keep. I would say with a good o line we would want to keep both players. But with a shitty line does it matter who is the qb or running back. I don't care how many draft picks we use this year on o line. Get the problem fixed once and for all.

Unfortunately I don't think so. The great destruction of the franchise started with Reese at both the OL/front 7. Dave did very little to change the OL side of it but I think we are very close finally on the D side.

We seem to have two good OT's. Hopefully the staff sees a quality starter and some solid depth on the IOL. Hate to have to go into this offseason needed three IOL in addition to WR, ILB (I think the biggest need and one that makes this a top 6 unit) and maybe QB or not.

Look at the best Giants OL (2008) and arguably best DL (Osi injured) and see how you make out trying to see when this replaced sufficiently. Closest is 2011 but that was only on the DL side.

In comment 15935326 robbieballs2003 said:

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?

Absolutely: the geniuses then decided to muck up two positions and move Gates over to LG instead of just one by inserting Price there. He would have been equally bad at either, so why move our developing Alpha C??

In comment 15935337 Biteymax22 said:

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But dear god did he mismanage the DT position despite actually having talent at the position. Going into 2019 we had BJ Hill and Davlin Tomlinson as starters and had just spent a first round pick on Dexter Lawrence. These 3 players are a very good trio on their own. At the deadline Gettleman gave up picks to acquire Leonard Williams, who is I will admit, was the best of the 3 at the time. However he then gave Williams a massive amount of money between franchise tags and bad contracts. The result was having to let Dalvin Tomlinson walk and subsequently the trade of BJ Hill.

Agree with you 100% Bitey. LW is a nice player, but DG totally screwed up the process by which we acquired him, substantially overpaid him, and because of that, was forced into subsequent shitty decisions. Having LW on the roster then gives him cover to let BJ Hill go on the cheap, and it also puts pressure on the salary cap, requiring other, painful moves either by himself or future GMs.

For some reason criticizing the process by which we acquired LW is akin to having a problem with LW the player. He's a good player, doesn't get enough pressure on the QB in my opinion for what he gets paid, but if you mortgage the future to get him, you're setting the team up for failure.

Ah yes... I remember how upset BBI was that the great BJ Hill was leaving. He had three years to impress the team, and apparently didn't (to the point of possibly not making the team regardless). If Justin Ellis spent a full season playing next to Thibodeaux, Ojulari, and Leonard/Dex, could he manage 5.5 sacks? Quite possibly. The Giants offensive line needed help. They traded for a center who had been a first round pick. Didn't work out... but very little did under last year's coaching staff. I'm not sure how a person could sit home saying to themselves "gosh, if we just had an Austin Johnson level backup tackle, it would totally make up for our lack of linebackers and banged-up secondary...".

Don't get me started. This Giants Org dropped the ball on this team and fans. NY Yanks might being pulling the same move too?! DG was the absolute worst GM. He literally put this franchise back 5-10 years back. Awful..

I liked him was pissed at the time, need DL depth you have to rotate these hog mollies they get gassed.

In comment 15935727 whozzat said:

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Ah yes... I remember how upset BBI was that the great BJ Hill was leaving. He had three years to impress the team, and apparently didn't

He couldn't get on the field after being drafted at the top of the 3rd round and a strong rookie year because he was drafted and traded over. Only so many snaps to go around. Now the guys that buried him on the depth chart are studs but questioning the resource allocation here is valid because BJ Hill was productive when he was able to get on the field here. But firebombing a non-premium position in 2 offseasons when one of the few good players you inherited in Dalvin Tomlinson, isn't prudent and will result in you losing talent or hurt other positions on the roster. The cost of upgrading from BJ Hill/Dalvin Tomlinson was super f'n high and could have been used to fortify other positions.

I'm in favor of extending Dex btw and think Leonard Williams is a very good player. But trade of BJ Hill was really a non-factor here and was inevitable once Leonard Williams was traded for, given massive amounts of money and we drafted Dex in the middle of the first round. He and Dalvin were gone then. If you're going to retroactively litigate the trade you have to be looking at the moves that led to that trade and not the trade itself.

so a desperation trade for a lineman was understandable with the many OL injuries.

Philadelphia Eagles have a 5 rd draft choice next year?! How?? Great GM's and Owners is how.. The Giants are the ones in real need of a high draft choice next year!? The rich get richer. smdh..

In comment 15935899 OntheRoad said:

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so a desperation trade for a lineman was understandable with the many OL injuries.

Some guys are outrageously overpaid.

I like Hill but he's getting $10M per and so is Dalvin Tomlinson. Neither is that kinda impact guy. Even Austin Johnson got a good pay last offseason. His breakout year because of Dex and Leo.

In comment 15935899 OntheRoad said:

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so a desperation trade for a lineman was understandable with the many OL injuries.

Not really sure how understandable the trade is when you consider that the guy who made the trade is the same guy who blew out the cap and who made the Giants desperate for OL by not drafting a single OL in 2021 and only signing one OL free agent prior to training camp.

are still defending Reese and Gettleman. SMH.

In comment 15936146 Eric from BBI said:

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are still defending Reese and Gettleman. SMH.

Reese won two super bowls

In comment 15936156 adamg said:

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In comment 15936146 Eric from BBI said: Quote: are still defending Reese and Gettleman. SMH. Reese won two super bowls

So did George Young. But both ran their respective teams into the ground as well.

In comment 15936157 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15936156 adamg said: Quote: In comment 15936146 Eric from BBI said: Quote: are still defending Reese and Gettleman. SMH. Reese won two super bowls So did George Young. But both ran their respective teams into the ground as well.

Two super bowls takes Reese out of any comparison with Gettleman. People who defend Gettlemen now have nothing to point to but this shit roster. Literally nothing else. They're shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

No argument there.

IMO, Gettleman is one of the worst GMs in sports history.

Reese has the two rings.

But Reese started the decline that Gettleman finished off.

Positively ridiculous as

"Two superbowls, yeah, but..."

The front seven is hardly complete. They are getting demolished in the run game. They have no depth on the line and are playing Lawrence and Williams an incomprehensible amount. They might have the worst inside linebackers in the NFL. Williams is wearing down and costs a fortune next year.

The Giants have two very promising edge rushers, and two very good lineman. The two best depth players they have, Ward and Ximines are UFA next year.

In 2020 the Giants were top 10 in YPC and total rush yards against. They were top 10 in pressure percentage. Top ten in total yards and points against. They had a deep rotation on the line and had a very good middle linebacker.

Gettleman chose Williams over retaining a deep rotation. I don't think that was the right answer in hindsight.

In comment 15936488 christian said:

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The front seven is hardly complete. They are getting demolished in the run game. They have no depth on the line and are playing Lawrence and Williams an incomprehensible amount. They might have the worst inside linebackers in the NFL. Williams is wearing down and costs a fortune next year. The Giants have two very promising edge rushers, and two very good lineman. The two best depth players they have, Ward and Ximines are UFA next year. In 2020 the Giants were top 10 in YPC and total rush yards against. They were top 10 in pressure percentage. Top ten in total yards and points against. They had a deep rotation on the line and had a very good middle linebacker. Gettleman chose Williams over retaining a deep rotation. I don't think that was the right answer in hindsight.

I really don't understand how they are this bad against the run. LW, DX, and Jihad are good players. I see people say its the LBs, but IDK...like really IDK. We are giving up 5.1 ypc, 3rd worst in the league. Only Detroit and the Chargers suck more.

Meanwhile we are middle of the pack in passing and 12th in the most important one: points allowed per game. We do finally have an decent defense. The piss poor run defense is perplexing though.

Simple. Williams is banged up and Lawrence is on pace to match his career high in snaps next week, with four games to go.

The Giants have given up 27+ points in 3/5 games. I bet they match that in the coming 5, and end up around 20 in PPG this year.