didn't they go aggressive three straight plays? Slayton drops the first one. Then nothing positive on the next 2.
Those next 2 are the ones I'm wondering if Jones missed seeing an opportunity. DJ clearly came through on the first one, and Slayton dropped it. I can't remember the next two, just that they were passing plays that malfunctioned.
So, the coaches did give at least a limited opportunity to Jones and the receivers.
I'm on the fence regarding DJ, but have no confidence in the receiving group. Not hard to project that onto the coaching staff.
It's easy to say 'Jones has to put the team on his back', but if the receivers drop passes, or can't get open, or the interior of the OL can't do it's job (or get stupid penalties taking you out of FG range), what do you expect Jones to do?
it seems obvious how people even now pick and choose what SY said to back their points but ignore other parts SY said that would go against them.
For all the Jones trust comments you must have missed the part where he feels the staff doesn't trust Barkley to do what is needed later in the game. How about the fact that Barkley doesn't run physical a LOT of the time and has one of the lowest yards after contact by backs with 100 carries or more?
The love for Barkley here is just crazy. You do realize his best games have also been when Jones has had really good running games too? I actually feel like it works best when both are running well- the limitations of our offense can be covered by some by creating indecision in defenders..
Barkley over the last 6 games has done things like he did last year (turns his back at contact- losing all power) a LOT. He slows up at the sideline for some reason as if giving up but in a weird awkward way. His vision is also a bit off as he tends to run to congestion, almost avoiding possible clean hits for more yardage to get into a jumbled area where the contact comes from a number of bodies vs power hits or attempts in a more open setting. So basically he is looking for the jumbled mess to sort of ease the hit and takes less yards because of it.
(and I said it back in September)... if the Giants are moving on from Saquon, Schoen screwed up by not trading him before the deadline when he was on fire.
That's easy for me to say however. If Saquon was traded by the deadline, and then the team went on its current downswing, the fan base would have blamed Schoen for wasting a playoff run.
good point. As for the 2nd point, those are the decisions that GMs get paid to make and take the heat for.
it seems obvious how people even now pick and choose what SY said to back their points but ignore other parts SY said that would go against them.
For all the Jones trust comments you must have missed the part where he feels the staff doesn't trust Barkley to do what is needed later in the game. How about the fact that Barkley doesn't run physical a LOT of the time and has one of the lowest yards after contact by backs with 100 carries or more?
The love for Barkley here is just crazy. You do realize his best games have also been when Jones has had really good running games too? I actually feel like it works best when both are running well- the limitations of our offense can be covered by some by creating indecision in defenders..
Barkley over the last 6 games has done things like he did last year (turns his back at contact- losing all power) a LOT. He slows up at the sideline for some reason as if giving up but in a weird awkward way. His vision is also a bit off as he tends to run to congestion, almost avoiding possible clean hits for more yardage to get into a jumbled area where the contact comes from a number of bodies vs power hits or attempts in a more open setting. So basically he is looking for the jumbled mess to sort of ease the hit and takes less yards because of it.
I'm not excusing Barkley -- he hasn't been the same since the 35 carry game
it seems obvious how people even now pick and choose what SY said to back their points but ignore other parts SY said that would go against them.
For all the Jones trust comments you must have missed the part where he feels the staff doesn't trust Barkley to do what is needed later in the game. How about the fact that Barkley doesn't run physical a LOT of the time and has one of the lowest yards after contact by backs with 100 carries or more?
The love for Barkley here is just crazy. You do realize his best games have also been when Jones has had really good running games too? I actually feel like it works best when both are running well- the limitations of our offense can be covered by some by creating indecision in defenders..
Barkley over the last 6 games has done things like he did last year (turns his back at contact- losing all power) a LOT. He slows up at the sideline for some reason as if giving up but in a weird awkward way. His vision is also a bit off as he tends to run to congestion, almost avoiding possible clean hits for more yardage to get into a jumbled area where the contact comes from a number of bodies vs power hits or attempts in a more open setting. So basically he is looking for the jumbled mess to sort of ease the hit and takes less yards because of it.
It’s not picking and choosing, it’s talking about certain topics. I don’t think anyone would disagree that Barkley needs to play better. But as for Barkleys best games have come when Jones has had a good running day is simply not true.
Hou: Barkley 152, Jones 24
Ravens: Barkley 88, Jones 6
Tennessee: Barkley 166, Jones 25
The Green Bay, Chicago and Jaguar game you’d be correct. So it’s really 50-50.
1) It is so interesting to see how coaches (in this case, Daboll) seem to get more conservative as their tenure wears on... is it the pressure of trying to win? is it lack of confidence in the players (Jones, WRs, O Line)? or something else. But as others have said, this recent stretch of games do take the shine off a bit with this coaching staff.
2) Since Sy's commentary on Jones seems to be a running debate, let it be known he said DJ played a quality game (no need to repeat his indiv comments here)... and yet, it should also be said that Sy thinks the coaching staff have limited confidence in him. Interesting, for sure and the off season bears close watching.
3) There is no reason to sign Saquon for anything other than an extremely team friendly deal. Spend that $$ on the O Line, LBers, and possibly, if the brass think it is warranted, a new QB
4) I laugh when I read Sy's well thought and professional player reviews and then read a bunch of yahoo's still pushing their agenda after only watching the game half in the bag from their couch... (no reason to name names, you know who are, probably)
the rest of this season should be very interesting... I hope we end the season still confident in this coaching staff.
JV squad at WR.
Interior line a mess
TE having a bad game
All quotes from the review
Yet when the 4th down play happened- Coach doesn’t trust DJ?
Are ya kidding me? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t trust all the other crap around him?
Just a thought
***understand is this
Maybe he doesn’t trust the line to hold up? Would you?
Or Slayton and the rest of the JV squad to actually hold on to the ball or get open. Would you?
Or SB to get 3 tough yards? Would you?
Or anybody on the offense to make a darn play other than the QB? Would you?
A point that a lot of people are leaving out about not trusting Jones...it is UNWARRANTED.
You can argue whether he was making great passes but you can't argue that he was executing the plays called.
If Kafka is telling him to run the screen that has been useless all year...all Jones can do is throw the screen complete.
It probably wouldn't look good on his resume going rogue in a contract year.
Love the new format with more info on player thoughts.
I came with the same assessment regarding coaching and Jones, and just weapons as well. It’a clear they don’t have much faith in Jones. I don’t get a lot of these play calls from earlier in the year when they showed some aggression and played to win than play so conservative and just tried to hang in it seems. I get that the difference is then we had Shepard, Robinson, some better health on the OL and elsewhere. Now we are depleated, but you have to still play to win the game. I don’t know I just don’t know what to make of it.
Really can’t wait to read your WR write ups we will need to draft 2-3 next year for sure. Not having a threat or reliable weapon at WR at all makes this offense incredibly one dimensional. Will be an interesting off season. I don’t know what they do with Barkley or Jones, I could see them tagging Barkley and drafting a RB. Then maybe trading Barkley on the tag to get something in return for him. He just doesn’t seem like someone that is long for this team, his play while we get glimpses here and there of some specialness, they are too far and few between. Age and injuries catching up to him, I think it’s time to move in to a cheaper option.
on his own side of the fifty in Dallas. After 5 quarters where the ball hardly hit the ground Daboll does a 180 and doesn't trust him anymore???
It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you look at more in depth. They were down two scored against Dallas. They had to trust him. The end of the first half against Washington and their 4th and 3 they were down three or tied.
Basically they don’t trust him enough to take risks when the game isn’t immediately in the balance. They’d rather punt there, pin Washington back and take a chance getting the ball back. If they were down they probably go for it there.
JV squad at WR.
Interior line a mess
TE having a bad game
All quotes from the review
Yet when the 4th down play happened- Coach doesn’t trust DJ?
Are ya kidding me? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t trust all the other crap around him?
Just a thought
***understand is this
Maybe he doesn’t trust the line to hold up? Would you?
Or Slayton and the rest of the JV squad to actually hold on to the ball or get open. Would you?
Or SB to get 3 tough yards? Would you?
Or anybody on the offense to make a darn play other than the QB? Would you?
Do we even have anything remotely resembling a decent slot receiver now?
on his own side of the fifty in Dallas. After 5 quarters where the ball hardly hit the ground Daboll does a 180 and doesn't trust him anymore???
It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you look at more in depth. They were down two scored against Dallas. They had to trust him. The end of the first half against Washington and their 4th and 3 they were down three or tied.
Basically they don’t trust him enough to take risks when the game isn’t immediately in the balance. They’d rather punt there, pin Washington back and take a chance getting the ball back. If they were down they probably go for it there.
I said, this isn't week one. We were a lot healthier and not in playoff position. I think Daboll should have gone for it on fourth and three but I'm not stunned he didn't.
They were that’s my mistake, but they also absolutely needed to get points on that drive. The defense had been on the field for 8 minutes the drive before. Dallas ended up scoring on the next drive, but they probably would have even if the Giants punted. 4th and 1 is also different than 4th and 3.
on his own side of the fifty in Dallas. After 5 quarters where the ball hardly hit the ground Daboll does a 180 and doesn't trust him anymore???
It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you look at more in depth. They were down two scored against Dallas. They had to trust him. The end of the first half against Washington and their 4th and 3 they were down three or tied.
Basically they don’t trust him enough to take risks when the game isn’t immediately in the balance. They’d rather punt there, pin Washington back and take a chance getting the ball back. If they were down they probably go for it there.
I though the Giants were down 1 score in Dallas?
1 point. So the game was “in the balance” down one point 6 mins gone from the 3rd quarter but not in sudden death ? That makes even less sense
I'm surprised by you comments or lack thereof on Richie James. I still dread everytime the other team punts but now you can add dreading everytime he is on the field. The confusion on his part in the backfield is another instance of why James most likely has not stuck with any other team. Whether its lack of knowledge after week 13 or pure empty headedness, he should not have been involved in that play and I think Dabolls lack of confidence my be in part to his supporting cast. He had nothing to lose week one. Now he's got the likes of Crowder complaining about playing time, fans expecting the playoffs and media waiting for expected mistakes. I think this game pointed out extremely well the exact positions we need to fill or upgrade this offseason. No wondering if we can get by with Moreau at CB or James at WR. We can't
Also going for it from 4th and 3 where Washington just needs just a FG is way riskier than the play against Dallas. The Giants defense had been dominating in the second half for the most part. Against Dallas they weren’t and 13 points weren’t going to win that game. They likely felt it was worth pinning Washington deep and relying on the defense to get a turnover or else a tie, as opposed to going for it. They almost ended up with a game winning sack too. I’d wager not converting the Dallas opportunity was in the back of their mind when making the decision.
(and I said it back in September)... if the Giants are moving on from Saquon, Schoen screwed up by not trading him before the deadline when he was on fire.
That's easy for me to say however. If Saquon was traded by the deadline, and then the team went on its current downswing, the fan base would have blamed Schoen for wasting a playoff run.
You could not have traded Saquon at that time. Forget the fan base. It tells the team you’ve quit. You can’t quit on your team. Not as a player, a coach or a GM.
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
What if the Giants got 80% of what Jones gives them from a rookie, with a better roster around him because there’s more around?
Jones rookie year gets touted a lot and the supporting cast was arguably worse, especially along the offensive line. If we got 80% of that year 1 I think that would be viewed as a success.
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Annapolis Mike -- there were many, many times when Eli strapped the team on his back and led the way to a win, and when I as a watcher believed he could do it
So far - this year -- there has been more than enough evidence, that under pressure Jones is as much likely to be part of a whiffed play as not. There is something very awkward about him.
a solid read on Schoen/Daboll as to their views of Jones. I am not as certain as Sy seems. At times, I think they are willing to move on. At other times, I think they realize the limitations of the supporting cast and the progress he has made despite it.
I guess what I'm saying is I will not be shocked if they keep Jones or let him walk.
I also wonder how the 2023 QB class impacts all of this. On the surface, the class does not appear to be as strong as once anticipated.
I feel exactly the same way. They didn't pick up Jones's fifth year option, but that was expected. They were both new, and needed to see him for themselves. And now he's dealing with a porous interior OL and the worst WRs in the league. His only deep threat likely would have been cut if he had not agreed to a pay cut. But the counter argument that he doesn't process quickly enough is also valid.
I don't think they will sign him to a long-term contract this offseason, but I could see a two year deal or even the FT. I agree that other options for QB will at least to some extent affect their decision and any offer.
Jones is the most polarizing player in the history of BBI IMO. And yet after four and a half years, I still don't know what they should do with him.
We need to find out what we have in Jones in these "game on the line" situations. He can't claim to know what DJ will do until he sees him in actual game situations. We had a chance to find out and he punted. And to make matters worse, he didn't have his team prepared to run a clean play on the pivotal 3rd and 2 before that.
There was no harm in going for the win there. It's really frustrating he pussied out, and I agree it sets the opposite tone he claims he wanted. It's hard to reverse those perceptions too.
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Annapolis Mike -- there were many, many times when Eli strapped the team on his back and led the way to a win, and when I as a watcher believed he could do it
So far - this year -- there has been more than enough evidence, that under pressure Jones is as much likely to be part of a whiffed play as not. There is something very awkward about him.
Awkward? Eli is the definition of awkward ;-) Again...Eli was magical at times. But the Giants were 118-118 with him under center. I don't want to turn this into a thread that bashes one of the best QB's in NYG history. But Eli was profoundly average much of the time. And the Giants under Eli won playoff games in two seasons in his career. (good seasons)
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Annapolis Mike -- there were many, many times when Eli strapped the team on his back and led the way to a win, and when I as a watcher believed he could do it
So far - this year -- there has been more than enough evidence, that under pressure Jones is as much likely to be part of a whiffed play as not. There is something very awkward about him.
Eli had ELITE receivers and TE's ... Come on now, it is ok to believe Jones isn't the guy it is another to use a a completely slanted argument to try and prove your point.
Everyone of Eli's receiving corps were better than Jones's group this year and it isn't even close. Seriously, Reuben Randle would hands down be the #1 WR here right now and Sinorce Moss would be James. Hell, Ramses Barden would be a top 3...
What if the Giants got 80% of what Jones gives them from a rookie, with a better roster around him because there’s more around?
Jones rookie year gets touted a lot and the supporting cast was arguably worse, especially along the offensive line. If we got 80% of that year 1 I think that would be viewed as a success.
I would take 80% of Jones from a rookie. But you are taking a big risk that a QB even gets to 100% of Jones, much less the 125% needed to really make it worthwhile (taking $ out of the equation) Wanna get rid of Jones...fine. Whats the plan when drafting late in the first round with the needs the Giants have.
You can compliment the value a QB gives you much if there’s more money to spend. A QB that gives you 80% of Jones year 1 and maybe at most gives you 110% of Jones by year 4 is much more tolerable at the price tag that he comes with.
If Jones gives you 65% of what you’d expect of franchise QB and rookie gives you 60%, it’s much easier to fill that 40% void with better talent with an extra $20 million to spend, than the 35% void with Jones on a contract that costs $20-30 million AAV.
that Daboll has backed off aggressiveness, and also missed an op to really evaluate DJ: unless they already have made decisions on him.
Its tough. I think some of you guys want to see Jones slinging it all over the place - that much has even been referenced for the upcoming eagles game. The problem is he has Slay and Bradberry on who? Richie James and Slayton? All while not being able to step up in the pocket on most drop backs... Its near impossible to evaluate some of the things people want evaluated as currently constructed.
Jones and Barkley conversations and go another route.
Boy was our interior OL bad and I give Sy credit, if you've been reading his reviews he's been pounding the drum for a top notch guard for years. We brought a lot of bodies in at the interior positions, but its time to go and get a top tier guy or two. We seem to have the tackle position solved for a good while.
that Daboll has backed off aggressiveness, and also missed an op to really evaluate DJ: unless they already have made decisions on him.
Joe Beckwith - if they've already made decisions without actually finding out what he does in a real game, that's pretty weird. What's the harm in actually giving him a shot there? The harm in NOT giving him a shot is what Sy mentioned, and that's tough to come back from. Potentially costly rookie mistake by a first time HC IMO.
I don't think Daboll has changed much re: aggressiveness
Jones and Barkley conversations and go another route.
Boy was our interior OL bad and I give Sy credit, if you've been reading his reviews he's been pounding the drum for a top notch guard for years. We brought a lot of bodies in at the interior positions, but its time to go and get a top tier guy or two. We seem to have the tackle position solved for a good while.
Yup. I've been saying the same forever. Especially at C
Schoen and Daboll need to see Jones throw 50 times for 400 yards bs Philly to evaluate him. They have the all-22. They know what Jones should be seeing on EVERY play. They will know what they have in him at seasons end.
The only thing that makes sense is that they are bringing him back. I don’t think that is the case (a decision that is) but if they are moving on why not go with Taylor and see what you have or say fuck it and let jones play yolo ball. A cpl bad games and most of the fan base will have no problem moving on. If you let jones blow the playoff run then it makes it easy to move on. Instead he is undermining himself with half assed play calls and fearful game mgmt
And still think he’s better than Tyrod. It’s not a binary situation.
They’re still trying to make the playoffs, so if they don’t trust him to let it rip they aren’t going to just do that to evaluate him and risk the playoffs.
And still think he’s better than Tyrod. It’s not a binary situation.
They’re still trying to make the playoffs, so if they don’t trust him to let it rip they aren’t going to just do that to evaluate him and risk the playoffs.
I think they ended up in a position they didn't necessarily expect (not that they'll ever admit that), and BD is now trying to hold on to that playoff position and has gone super conservative.
(and I said it back in September)... if the Giants are moving on from Saquon, Schoen screwed up by not trading him before the deadline when he was on fire.
That's easy for me to say however. If Saquon was traded by the deadline, and then the team went on its current downswing, the fan base would have blamed Schoen for wasting a playoff run.
Yup, guarantee if the Giants had been 1-3-1 in their last 5 at the trade deadline, Schoen would've blown it up.
I think they ended up in a position they didn't necessarily expect (not that they'll ever admit that), and BD is now trying to hold on to that playoff position and has gone super conservative.
I concur.
When you actually have games that mean something, that collar gets a little tighter lol
Hoping that BD realizes he's still playing with house money and starts taking chances more.
Probably felt a bit burned by the Dallas call, hence punting versus WSH.
This! I put this on Daboll, not Jones. A coaching mistake.
He's made a few lately.
I don't mind a first time HC making mistakes. What is important is acknowledging and growing. I don't think there is anything suggesting he won't but time will tell.
Those next 2 are the ones I'm wondering if Jones missed seeing an opportunity. DJ clearly came through on the first one, and Slayton dropped it. I can't remember the next two, just that they were passing plays that malfunctioned.
So, the coaches did give at least a limited opportunity to Jones and the receivers.
I'm on the fence regarding DJ, but have no confidence in the receiving group. Not hard to project that onto the coaching staff.
It's easy to say 'Jones has to put the team on his back', but if the receivers drop passes, or can't get open, or the interior of the OL can't do it's job (or get stupid penalties taking you out of FG range), what do you expect Jones to do?
For all the Jones trust comments you must have missed the part where he feels the staff doesn't trust Barkley to do what is needed later in the game. How about the fact that Barkley doesn't run physical a LOT of the time and has one of the lowest yards after contact by backs with 100 carries or more?
The love for Barkley here is just crazy. You do realize his best games have also been when Jones has had really good running games too? I actually feel like it works best when both are running well- the limitations of our offense can be covered by some by creating indecision in defenders..
Barkley over the last 6 games has done things like he did last year (turns his back at contact- losing all power) a LOT. He slows up at the sideline for some reason as if giving up but in a weird awkward way. His vision is also a bit off as he tends to run to congestion, almost avoiding possible clean hits for more yardage to get into a jumbled area where the contact comes from a number of bodies vs power hits or attempts in a more open setting. So basically he is looking for the jumbled mess to sort of ease the hit and takes less yards because of it.
That's easy for me to say however. If Saquon was traded by the deadline, and then the team went on its current downswing, the fan base would have blamed Schoen for wasting a playoff run.
good point. As for the 2nd point, those are the decisions that GMs get paid to make and take the heat for.
Clearly it looked as if James had gotten that first down, so were they somehow confused?
For all the Jones trust comments you must have missed the part where he feels the staff doesn't trust Barkley to do what is needed later in the game. How about the fact that Barkley doesn't run physical a LOT of the time and has one of the lowest yards after contact by backs with 100 carries or more?
The love for Barkley here is just crazy. You do realize his best games have also been when Jones has had really good running games too? I actually feel like it works best when both are running well- the limitations of our offense can be covered by some by creating indecision in defenders..
Barkley over the last 6 games has done things like he did last year (turns his back at contact- losing all power) a LOT. He slows up at the sideline for some reason as if giving up but in a weird awkward way. His vision is also a bit off as he tends to run to congestion, almost avoiding possible clean hits for more yardage to get into a jumbled area where the contact comes from a number of bodies vs power hits or attempts in a more open setting. So basically he is looking for the jumbled mess to sort of ease the hit and takes less yards because of it.
I'm not excusing Barkley -- he hasn't been the same since the 35 carry game
For all the Jones trust comments you must have missed the part where he feels the staff doesn't trust Barkley to do what is needed later in the game. How about the fact that Barkley doesn't run physical a LOT of the time and has one of the lowest yards after contact by backs with 100 carries or more?
The love for Barkley here is just crazy. You do realize his best games have also been when Jones has had really good running games too? I actually feel like it works best when both are running well- the limitations of our offense can be covered by some by creating indecision in defenders..
Barkley over the last 6 games has done things like he did last year (turns his back at contact- losing all power) a LOT. He slows up at the sideline for some reason as if giving up but in a weird awkward way. His vision is also a bit off as he tends to run to congestion, almost avoiding possible clean hits for more yardage to get into a jumbled area where the contact comes from a number of bodies vs power hits or attempts in a more open setting. So basically he is looking for the jumbled mess to sort of ease the hit and takes less yards because of it.
It’s not picking and choosing, it’s talking about certain topics. I don’t think anyone would disagree that Barkley needs to play better. But as for Barkleys best games have come when Jones has had a good running day is simply not true.
Hou: Barkley 152, Jones 24
Ravens: Barkley 88, Jones 6
Tennessee: Barkley 166, Jones 25
The Green Bay, Chicago and Jaguar game you’d be correct. So it’s really 50-50.
1) It is so interesting to see how coaches (in this case, Daboll) seem to get more conservative as their tenure wears on... is it the pressure of trying to win? is it lack of confidence in the players (Jones, WRs, O Line)? or something else. But as others have said, this recent stretch of games do take the shine off a bit with this coaching staff.
2) Since Sy's commentary on Jones seems to be a running debate, let it be known he said DJ played a quality game (no need to repeat his indiv comments here)... and yet, it should also be said that Sy thinks the coaching staff have limited confidence in him. Interesting, for sure and the off season bears close watching.
3) There is no reason to sign Saquon for anything other than an extremely team friendly deal. Spend that $$ on the O Line, LBers, and possibly, if the brass think it is warranted, a new QB
4) I laugh when I read Sy's well thought and professional player reviews and then read a bunch of yahoo's still pushing their agenda after only watching the game half in the bag from their couch... (no reason to name names, you know who are, probably)
the rest of this season should be very interesting... I hope we end the season still confident in this coaching staff.
Interior line a mess
TE having a bad game
All quotes from the review
Yet when the 4th down play happened- Coach doesn’t trust DJ?
Are ya kidding me? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t trust all the other crap around him?
Just a thought
Interior line a mess
TE having a bad game
All quotes from the review
Yet when the 4th down play happened- Coach doesn’t trust DJ?
Are ya kidding me? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t trust all the other crap around him?
Just a thought
***understand is this
Maybe he doesn’t trust the line to hold up? Would you?
Or Slayton and the rest of the JV squad to actually hold on to the ball or get open. Would you?
Or SB to get 3 tough yards? Would you?
Or anybody on the offense to make a darn play other than the QB? Would you?
Definitely top 10 safety money
You can argue whether he was making great passes but you can't argue that he was executing the plays called.
If Kafka is telling him to run the screen that has been useless all year...all Jones can do is throw the screen complete.
It probably wouldn't look good on his resume going rogue in a contract year.
I came with the same assessment regarding coaching and Jones, and just weapons as well. It’a clear they don’t have much faith in Jones. I don’t get a lot of these play calls from earlier in the year when they showed some aggression and played to win than play so conservative and just tried to hang in it seems. I get that the difference is then we had Shepard, Robinson, some better health on the OL and elsewhere. Now we are depleated, but you have to still play to win the game. I don’t know I just don’t know what to make of it.
Really can’t wait to read your WR write ups we will need to draft 2-3 next year for sure. Not having a threat or reliable weapon at WR at all makes this offense incredibly one dimensional. Will be an interesting off season. I don’t know what they do with Barkley or Jones, I could see them tagging Barkley and drafting a RB. Then maybe trading Barkley on the tag to get something in return for him. He just doesn’t seem like someone that is long for this team, his play while we get glimpses here and there of some specialness, they are too far and few between. Age and injuries catching up to him, I think it’s time to move in to a cheaper option.
It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you look at more in depth. They were down two scored against Dallas. They had to trust him. The end of the first half against Washington and their 4th and 3 they were down three or tied.
Basically they don’t trust him enough to take risks when the game isn’t immediately in the balance. They’d rather punt there, pin Washington back and take a chance getting the ball back. If they were down they probably go for it there.
Quote:
JV squad at WR.
Interior line a mess
TE having a bad game
All quotes from the review
Yet when the 4th down play happened- Coach doesn’t trust DJ?
Are ya kidding me? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t trust all the other crap around him?
Just a thought
***understand is this
Maybe he doesn’t trust the line to hold up? Would you?
Or Slayton and the rest of the JV squad to actually hold on to the ball or get open. Would you?
Or SB to get 3 tough yards? Would you?
Or anybody on the offense to make a darn play other than the QB? Would you?
Do we even have anything remotely resembling a decent slot receiver now?
Quote:
on his own side of the fifty in Dallas. After 5 quarters where the ball hardly hit the ground Daboll does a 180 and doesn't trust him anymore???
It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you look at more in depth. They were down two scored against Dallas. They had to trust him. The end of the first half against Washington and their 4th and 3 they were down three or tied.
Basically they don’t trust him enough to take risks when the game isn’t immediately in the balance. They’d rather punt there, pin Washington back and take a chance getting the ball back. If they were down they probably go for it there.
I though the Giants were down 1 score in Dallas?
I though the Giants were down 1 score in Dallas?
They were that’s my mistake, but they also absolutely needed to get points on that drive. The defense had been on the field for 8 minutes the drive before. Dallas ended up scoring on the next drive, but they probably would have even if the Giants punted. 4th and 1 is also different than 4th and 3.
Quote:
In comment 15935798 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
on his own side of the fifty in Dallas. After 5 quarters where the ball hardly hit the ground Daboll does a 180 and doesn't trust him anymore???
It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense when you look at more in depth. They were down two scored against Dallas. They had to trust him. The end of the first half against Washington and their 4th and 3 they were down three or tied.
Basically they don’t trust him enough to take risks when the game isn’t immediately in the balance. They’d rather punt there, pin Washington back and take a chance getting the ball back. If they were down they probably go for it there.
I though the Giants were down 1 score in Dallas?
1 point. So the game was “in the balance” down one point 6 mins gone from the 3rd quarter but not in sudden death ? That makes even less sense
Interior line a mess
TE having a bad game
All quotes from the review
Yet when the 4th down play happened- Coach doesn’t trust DJ?
Are ya kidding me? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t trust all the other crap around him?
Just a thought
Wow, a comonsense post by a logical poster. Agree 100%
That's easy for me to say however. If Saquon was traded by the deadline, and then the team went on its current downswing, the fan base would have blamed Schoen for wasting a playoff run.
You could not have traded Saquon at that time. Forget the fan base. It tells the team you’ve quit. You can’t quit on your team. Not as a player, a coach or a GM.
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Jones rookie year gets touted a lot and the supporting cast was arguably worse, especially along the offensive line. If we got 80% of that year 1 I think that would be viewed as a success.
Quote:
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Annapolis Mike -- there were many, many times when Eli strapped the team on his back and led the way to a win, and when I as a watcher believed he could do it
So far - this year -- there has been more than enough evidence, that under pressure Jones is as much likely to be part of a whiffed play as not. There is something very awkward about him.
Quote:
a solid read on Schoen/Daboll as to their views of Jones. I am not as certain as Sy seems. At times, I think they are willing to move on. At other times, I think they realize the limitations of the supporting cast and the progress he has made despite it.
I guess what I'm saying is I will not be shocked if they keep Jones or let him walk.
I also wonder how the 2023 QB class impacts all of this. On the surface, the class does not appear to be as strong as once anticipated.
I feel exactly the same way. They didn't pick up Jones's fifth year option, but that was expected. They were both new, and needed to see him for themselves. And now he's dealing with a porous interior OL and the worst WRs in the league. His only deep threat likely would have been cut if he had not agreed to a pay cut. But the counter argument that he doesn't process quickly enough is also valid.
I don't think they will sign him to a long-term contract this offseason, but I could see a two year deal or even the FT. I agree that other options for QB will at least to some extent affect their decision and any offer.
Jones is the most polarizing player in the history of BBI IMO. And yet after four and a half years, I still don't know what they should do with him.
Agree Acid. Good post.
We need to find out what we have in Jones in these "game on the line" situations. He can't claim to know what DJ will do until he sees him in actual game situations. We had a chance to find out and he punted. And to make matters worse, he didn't have his team prepared to run a clean play on the pivotal 3rd and 2 before that.
There was no harm in going for the win there. It's really frustrating he pussied out, and I agree it sets the opposite tone he claims he wanted. It's hard to reverse those perceptions too.
Quote:
In comment 15935614 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Annapolis Mike -- there were many, many times when Eli strapped the team on his back and led the way to a win, and when I as a watcher believed he could do it
So far - this year -- there has been more than enough evidence, that under pressure Jones is as much likely to be part of a whiffed play as not. There is something very awkward about him.
Awkward? Eli is the definition of awkward ;-) Again...Eli was magical at times. But the Giants were 118-118 with him under center. I don't want to turn this into a thread that bashes one of the best QB's in NYG history. But Eli was profoundly average much of the time. And the Giants under Eli won playoff games in two seasons in his career. (good seasons)
Quote:
In comment 15935614 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Ask yourself -- Do you trust Jones for three yards on 4th down when the chips are down and the real pressure is on, the same way you trusted Eli? In my view NFW.
I think our blue colored glasses regarding Eli in the regular season get the best of us. There were times with Eli I would cringe every time he dropped back to pass. Eli could be masterful when he was on. But he had terrible games throughout his career.
I'm not sold on Jones, but barring a collapse I struggle to see options significantly better than him. It could well be that the Giants came into the season with the belief that they would have a good draft position. Barring a collapse (which would make it easy to jettison Jones) a replacement QB might be difficult to acquire.
Annapolis Mike -- there were many, many times when Eli strapped the team on his back and led the way to a win, and when I as a watcher believed he could do it
So far - this year -- there has been more than enough evidence, that under pressure Jones is as much likely to be part of a whiffed play as not. There is something very awkward about him.
Eli had ELITE receivers and TE's ... Come on now, it is ok to believe Jones isn't the guy it is another to use a a completely slanted argument to try and prove your point.
Everyone of Eli's receiving corps were better than Jones's group this year and it isn't even close. Seriously, Reuben Randle would hands down be the #1 WR here right now and Sinorce Moss would be James. Hell, Ramses Barden would be a top 3...
Jones rookie year gets touted a lot and the supporting cast was arguably worse, especially along the offensive line. If we got 80% of that year 1 I think that would be viewed as a success.
I would take 80% of Jones from a rookie. But you are taking a big risk that a QB even gets to 100% of Jones, much less the 125% needed to really make it worthwhile (taking $ out of the equation) Wanna get rid of Jones...fine. Whats the plan when drafting late in the first round with the needs the Giants have.
If Jones gives you 65% of what you’d expect of franchise QB and rookie gives you 60%, it’s much easier to fill that 40% void with better talent with an extra $20 million to spend, than the 35% void with Jones on a contract that costs $20-30 million AAV.
Next we will see the double kneel down
Its tough. I think some of you guys want to see Jones slinging it all over the place - that much has even been referenced for the upcoming eagles game. The problem is he has Slay and Bradberry on who? Richie James and Slayton? All while not being able to step up in the pocket on most drop backs... Its near impossible to evaluate some of the things people want evaluated as currently constructed.
Boy was our interior OL bad and I give Sy credit, if you've been reading his reviews he's been pounding the drum for a top notch guard for years. We brought a lot of bodies in at the interior positions, but its time to go and get a top tier guy or two. We seem to have the tackle position solved for a good while.
Joe Beckwith - if they've already made decisions without actually finding out what he does in a real game, that's pretty weird. What's the harm in actually giving him a shot there? The harm in NOT giving him a shot is what Sy mentioned, and that's tough to come back from. Potentially costly rookie mistake by a first time HC IMO.
Boy was our interior OL bad and I give Sy credit, if you've been reading his reviews he's been pounding the drum for a top notch guard for years. We brought a lot of bodies in at the interior positions, but its time to go and get a top tier guy or two. We seem to have the tackle position solved for a good while.
Yup. I've been saying the same forever. Especially at C
They’re still trying to make the playoffs, so if they don’t trust him to let it rip they aren’t going to just do that to evaluate him and risk the playoffs.
They’re still trying to make the playoffs, so if they don’t trust him to let it rip they aren’t going to just do that to evaluate him and risk the playoffs.
I think they ended up in a position they didn't necessarily expect (not that they'll ever admit that), and BD is now trying to hold on to that playoff position and has gone super conservative.
That's easy for me to say however. If Saquon was traded by the deadline, and then the team went on its current downswing, the fan base would have blamed Schoen for wasting a playoff run.
Yup, guarantee if the Giants had been 1-3-1 in their last 5 at the trade deadline, Schoen would've blown it up.
coached scared.
This! I put this on Daboll, not Jones. A coaching mistake.
He's made a few lately.
I think they ended up in a position they didn't necessarily expect (not that they'll ever admit that), and BD is now trying to hold on to that playoff position and has gone super conservative.
I concur.
When you actually have games that mean something, that collar gets a little tighter lol
Hoping that BD realizes he's still playing with house money and starts taking chances more.
Probably felt a bit burned by the Dallas call, hence punting versus WSH.
Quote:
coached scared.
This! I put this on Daboll, not Jones. A coaching mistake.
He's made a few lately.
I don't mind a first time HC making mistakes. What is important is acknowledging and growing. I don't think there is anything suggesting he won't but time will tell.