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| Playing with training wheels In the big picture, it feels wrong to criticize Daboll since he’s wrung a 7-4-1 record out of a deeply flawed roster in his first season as a head coach. But the stakes with the offense are higher, because Jones is in a contract year. If he was in his second or third season, there would be less urgency to determine if Jones can be the long-term answer at quarterback. But the way the Giants have managed Jones this season hasn’t provided a definitive answer on his future. And even with the team’s success, it doesn’t feel like the Giants are building toward something with Jones by playing this style of offense. There was a gnawing feeling during the team’s surprising 6-1 start that its style of play wasn’t sustainable. And, as expected, opponents’ focus on Barkley has grown, and his production has decreased. Defenses also appear to have figured out some of the wrinkles that sparked the Giants’ offense early in the season, like their bootleg play-action package. The Giants are 1-3-1 in their past five games, with their lone win during that stretch against the lowly Texans. Daboll has worked wonders to get the Giants into playoff contention, but with more difficult competition ahead, there would be more optimism if it didn’t feel like Jones had been operating with training wheels all season. |
-NYG declines the 5th year option
-Schoen does not engage with Jones on a contract during the bye
-The play calling is very limited
I just don’t see him as the long term answer. Don’t understand how it’s a surprise to some.
last week the barkley touchdown was out of either 3 or 4 wide receivers and that was probably the first gap we've seen in a defense since the Texans game.
against Dallas they started the game with all passing plays on that first drive and should have had a touchdown if not for the stupid lineman downfield penalty.
i agree with duggan they need to open up the offense and see what happens, good or bad. defenses have adjusted and now they need to adjust back. against philly they are playing with house money any way because the chances of this current secondary stopping AJB and Devonta Smith are very low.
Sy's game report tells how brutal the interior was, to me that has something to do with the limited offense. And the quality of receivers too.
Alex Smith is the DJ comparison for sure, but I could see DJ on a track similar to Ryan Tannehill. Not great, but pretty good who can win games for you.
He went from Miami - with a good skillset but inconsistent including talent around him - to pretty good with a better roster.
Question becomes, is it here or somewhere else.
-NYG declines the 5th year option
-Schoen does not engage with Jones on a contract during the bye
-The play calling is very limited
I just don’t see him as the long term answer. Don’t understand how it’s a surprise to some.
the decision on his future is in the offseason. daboll talked a lot over the summer about playing unafraid to make mistakes and here they are with a QB who has one of the lowest turnover rates in the NFL and they are afraid to take any shots even though the few shots they've been taking have been effective. they have been coaching scared since the bye which regardless of what you think of jones is just a lame strategy.
rivera is down to a backup QB who throws a bunch of balls up for grabs and dan campbell's lions are QB'd by a guy who cost his prior team a first round pick to get rid of. neither is their long term answer but that doesn't mean the team can't still play aggressively.
Let Jones rip. If he fails you get a better draft pick.
If he is awesome you’re set at QB.
There’s no point in trying to squeeze a few extra wins out to make the playoffs. Dabolls not on the heat seat.
It's a shame the WR group gives little to help him on top of still OL issues. Toney, Sheppard, Wandale and Galloday sure did not work out as planned or at least hoped.
JS/BD still have to figure it out and come up with the best future whatever the decision is.
Or why not let DJ "cook" and expose him and make clear how bad he is.
Either way, it makes moving on easier, and probably helps your draft position (if that is the plan)
It's the one year that the teams record won't matter.
It doesn't make sense to half ass it.
That said the coaching has been pretty shitty the last few weeks, and plain old gutless this week.
Playing for a tie, is literally playiing not to lose
Sy's game report tells how brutal the interior was, to me that has something to do with the limited offense. And the quality of receivers too.
Alex Smith is the DJ comparison for sure, but I could see DJ on a track similar to Ryan Tannehill. Not great, but pretty good who can win games for you.
He went from Miami - with a good skillset but inconsistent including talent around him - to pretty good with a better roster.
Question becomes, is it here or somewhere else.
And of course Tannehill is not struggling to some extent, not coincidently without his best receiver.
And yes, it's very possible they've made up their minds about Jones and are including him among the "limited skill position players" group.
Or why not let DJ "cook" and expose him and make clear how bad he is.
Either way, it makes moving on easier, and probably helps your draft position (if that is the plan)
It's the one year that the teams record won't matter.
It doesn't make sense to half ass it.
There's some truth and fact to the above - of course in the end coaches want to win. It's on their resume.
But your premise is exactly why I say it's not DJ they don't trust.
Actions speak louder than words with the Giants
They're trying to evaluate Jones (and the entire roster), and they're also trying to win and reward everyone with a playoff spot (and $) for their hard work.
Couldn't agree more. We are at home against a division opponent who are eyeing up the #1 seed.
We aren't going to catch them for the divisional title (barring a miracle); and if we lose, I think there is still a pathway to 10 wins, especially if the Eagles have clinched everything in the final weekend.
Detroit is playing well, but I think they will fall short of getting to 10 wins. Seattle is a different story, but they still have the 9ers, Jets, KC and the Rams, who could be looking to play spoiler to salvage a horrible year...
So, let it rip.
I think this week will be similar. Everyone in the world thinks they're going to lose and they aren't gonna be able to keep the Eagles under 20 points.
I think they're going to completely open it up and let Jones sink or swim this week.
If Jones is given more rope and craps the bed, DJ will get the blame - not Daboll - and we can move on knowing we are making the right decision.
of course, the other potential play here is: Giants do want Jones back (at their price) and are playing it slow with him to build his confidence back up for the long run, rather than simply this season.
That's relevant because the team will likely play tight in response to the coaches' decisions in game. You could see and feel it. Should've been a "W".
Sy's game report tells how brutal the interior was, to me that has something to do with the limited offense. And the quality of receivers too.
Alex Smith is the DJ comparison for sure, but I could see DJ on a track similar to Ryan Tannehill. Not great, but pretty good who can win games for you.
He went from Miami - with a good skillset but inconsistent including talent around him - to pretty good with a better roster.
Question becomes, is it here or somewhere else.
The weaknesses in his game coming out of college are still the weaknesses in his game 4 years later. His stats this season are basically the same as they were last season. This "we can't get anyone better", "he's the bridge" and the "we haven't seen enough to know" are just another set of lifelines to the hopes and dreams of his supporters. It's pretty obvious that the coaching staff and the GM are moving on, and rightly so.
This time last year the Giants were 4-8 and wouldn't win another game. We had a complete clown as a coach. A GM that saddled us with KG and whiffed on multiple first round picks. I am not sour on Kafka or Daboll.
If this team can improve the offensive line, add talent at WR and keep improving the defense this team will remain out of the abyss and I have high hopes for that.
If you hate Jones, lose as much as possible to get your QB, or expose him so bad moving on to Tyrod in the second or third game of season wont be seen as rash decision.
That's relevant because the team will likely play tight in response to the coaches' decisions in game. You could see and feel it. Should've been a "W".
100% agree. the coaching staff's posture post-bye has toggled between stupid aggressive (adoree on punt returns) and embarrassingly conservative.
they were perfect in the first 10 weeks and that was never a realistic expectation season long, but we should reasonably expect them to progress the rest of the way instead of continued regression.
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....but more a bridge to hopefully a better option?
Sy's game report tells how brutal the interior was, to me that has something to do with the limited offense. And the quality of receivers too.
Alex Smith is the DJ comparison for sure, but I could see DJ on a track similar to Ryan Tannehill. Not great, but pretty good who can win games for you.
He went from Miami - with a good skillset but inconsistent including talent around him - to pretty good with a better roster.
Question becomes, is it here or somewhere else.
This is a misrepresenation of Tannehill's Miami tenure which included two 4000 yard seasons and three seasons in a row of 24+ TD's. He has basically been the same qb with the Titans as he was with Miami.
No wonder I liked Tannehill LOL.......I just remember people thinking he wasn't a worthy of his draft pick.
Heck, why did Miami get rid of him then? His stats are quite good, thanks for the info.
If Jones is given more rope and craps the bed, DJ will get the blame - not Daboll - and we can move on knowing we are making the right decision.
of course, the other potential play here is: Giants do want Jones back (at their price) and are playing it slow with him to build his confidence back up for the long run, rather than simply this season.
There seems to be enough context clues to suggest Jones is not in the future plans for Schoen/Daboll. However, I could see them also feeling good about Jones - to an extent - and giving Jones another prove-it year if Team Jones is willing. I don't think the latter is the best way to go, but it can't be dismissed.
But I think you nailed it with the fact that Daboll is basically Teflon here if Jones fails miserably with a longer leash. Daboll inherited Jones and spent a few years watching a great QB maximize his offense.
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was end of half and overtime game management was poor, and the decisions were painfully conservative. Not trying for a TD to end the first half, poor use of timeouts, the 4th and 3 punt, etc. Basically a reversal of the Titans game, which is a tell Daboll's coaching tight now in these difficult spots.
That's relevant because the team will likely play tight in response to the coaches' decisions in game. You could see and feel it. Should've been a "W".
100% agree. the coaching staff's posture post-bye has toggled between stupid aggressive (adoree on punt returns) and embarrassingly conservative.
they were perfect in the first 10 weeks and that was never a realistic expectation season long, but we should reasonably expect them to progress the rest of the way instead of continued regression.
Sunday was really tough to watch. My friend was going ballistic up in the stands as to why so conservative, are they not paying attention to the clock and game management, etc. Here's hoping Daboll and his game managers pull out of the tailspin, because it felt like they waved the white flag and hoped to get lucky.
And because you're going to have to score points, I'd like to see some trick plays resulting in easy scores.
We've done better at not having to literally earn EVERY yard this year, but it's still a struggle to get over that 20 point plateau.
They'll need to hit 30 to have a chance this weekend I'd project.
-NYG declines the 5th year option
-Schoen does not engage with Jones on a contract during the bye
-The play calling is very limited
I just don’t see him as the long term answer. Don’t understand how it’s a surprise to some.
I don’t think BD coached scared, it he didn’t seem to mind walking out with a tie. The last possession of the 1st half was one of the most maddening I’ve seen in years. The utter lack of urgency was bizarre.
The WRs suck, but they've been here long enough to do something other than training wheels.
The interior OL sucks but they've been here all year, the coaches should've been able to coach up SOMETHING other than training wheels.
No matter where you sit on Jones, I doubt anyone thinks he's so limited that you CAN'T do anything but training wheels. He's proven he's better than that his 1st year. He can drop back and throw from the pocket.
At this point, the coaching staff has to ask themselves why they've been working with these players for some time now and this is all they are doing. It's going to take better than that to for Daboll to succeed as a HC and Kafka an OC. Lots to prove there.
Right now, you could make an argument they started hot due to being new on the scene, and now they've been figured out. Happens all the time in the NFL. Sustained success is difficult and you have to stay ahead of the game/counterpunch when you're figured out.
This offense has regressed since the beginning of the year from a playcalling/scheme standpoint.
-NYG declines the 5th year option
-Schoen does not engage with Jones on a contract during the bye
-The play calling is very limited
I just don’t see him as the long term answer. Don’t understand how it’s a surprise to some.
Could be. IT also could be that they weren't sure last year but are open to re-signing Jones and them not talking during the bye doesn't mean much at all. The Playcalling could be due to every other untalented part of the offense not named Barkley.
I slightly lean to the former that Daboll isn't in love with DJ, but I am not 100% sold that's it. ALso, he could be NOT in love with Jones and still bring him back next year.
So many ways to look at it. VEry hard to say anything conclusive right now in my view.
See this is fine, and a perfectly valid opinion. But I really hope no one thinks Jones is so bad that they can't even think about running dropback passes, or taking training wheels off.
Roseman has not been GM since 2009. He has been in several power struggles and has had different roles and power struggles but is last man standing.
Unless they are a slam dunk - all they are going to do is shorten their tenure with the NYG.
Imagine posting the kind of crap where trolling is the least egregious explanation.
NYG this season are near the bottom in attempts but closer to average in terms of YPA.
I don't know...the biggest thing to me is supposedly no contract talks. The playcalling doesn't mean they don't want Jones back even if it does mean they don't love him.
That's relevant because the team will likely play tight in response to the coaches' decisions in game. You could see and feel it. Should've been a "W".
Yeah I agree with that Jon. It was palpable. But to the other points about how we were winning being unsustainable... it's hard for me to feel the injuries to McKinney, Jackson, Bellinger, Robinson didn't tip us the other way to losing the close games now and is also a factor in why they are coaching this way. It's not like we are being blown out. I feel just having one of Jackson or McKinney back tips that Washington game into a W.
Duggan is correct in a lot of ways. The stats pretty much show what the Giants need to do getting these games to the 4th and then winning. They were back on track the first half against WFT and still not sure of all the issues for what happened in the 2nd. Drastic difference.
This team on O is going to struggle if forced to win through the air. They have a chance to do enough when they are able to run the ball.
When they can't do this it puts even more pressure on our D that has some very important players missing that started with a serious ILB deficiency.
Like Schoen said on one of his interviews in a game they one during the bye. "We were done 17-3". Hopefully he is on top of it and has a good plan.
The poster who alluded to how different the record could be is spot on. This is the NFL.
Absolutely they have earned the right to select their guy. That being said, I do not think anyone has earned the right to overdraft a player in order to do so.
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Follow the actions. It’s been pretty clear that Jones isn’t the long term answer.
-NYG declines the 5th year option
-Schoen does not engage with Jones on a contract during the bye
-The play calling is very limited
I just don’t see him as the long term answer. Don’t understand how it’s a surprise to some.
Could be. IT also could be that they weren't sure last year but are open to re-signing Jones and them not talking during the bye doesn't mean much at all. The Playcalling could be due to every other untalented part of the offense not named Barkley.
I slightly lean to the former that Daboll isn't in love with DJ, but I am not 100% sold that's it. ALso, he could be NOT in love with Jones and still bring him back next year.
So many ways to look at it. VEry hard to say anything conclusive right now in my view.
Agreed djm. And to Sean's point, my counter is I don't understand how some are so willing to blame the QB for the offensive woes, when it's pretty clear (to me) there is no QB in the league that would do much more with what we have on that side of the ball right now.