Cano #2...Yes I am vested as a diehard but if he leaves I wish him the best but really think he will be sorry....have to respect his choice whatever it is...
RE: RE: RE: Certainly not official, but who would be surprised?
Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
They didn’t “let” he wants to go to San Fran. You’re acting like yanks offered him $14 a game
I’m stunned that Hal and Cashman still have people willing to make excuses for them.
LOL who is defending them? I simply said we are making offers. We aren’t letting him walk. I don’t like the way Cashman has constructed roster I was ready to fire him
if the reporting earlier on the NYY vs SFG offers, SFG came in a little higher so to that extent the Yankees "let" him go. But if that were the only stumbling block, it could be worked out. It looks like Judge wanted to go home to the Bay Area. Like deGrom, he wanted to leave NYC. There's only so much that the team can do in that situation.
I think this situation is unprecedented in Yankee history, though, isn't it? SFG doing to the Yankees what the Yankees have been doing to other teams since the dawn of free agency. And never mind that it's the reigning MVP and the Yankees' face of the franchise.
RE: If he leaves it is becasue he wanted to go all along
Cano #2...Yes I am vested as a diehard but if he leaves I wish him the best but really think he will be sorry....have to respect his choice whatever it is...
I don’t understand this POV. Do you think that he leaves if they offer him the most money or years? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. If you truly want a player, you have to put your money where your mouth is. They did it with Gerrit Cole.
Have said it before. The Giants are his childhood team. How many of you if you were a mlb player playing in Seattle and your childhood team offers you a shiny load of money, you wouldn’t go to your childhood team.
Cano #2...Yes I am vested as a diehard but if he leaves I wish him the best but really think he will be sorry....have to respect his choice whatever it is...
I don’t understand this POV. Do you think that he leaves if they offer him the most money or years? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. If you truly want a player, you have to put your money where your mouth is. They did it with Gerrit Cole.
So what is your jumping off point? How much is too much? Whatever they pay him is going to directly affect what they can do with the rest of the roster for the next decade. So what’s your limit?
Also, if he leaves how do you know it wasn’t his intention all along? It wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to connect all the dots dating back to this past offseason that he may just prefer to go back to Cali. I can’t stand Cashman either, but blaming him right now before we have any details whatsoever is amateur hour. Let alone the fact he hasn’t even officially left yet…
So if the Giants are still at $360m I don’t think Cashman lets him leave over $20 million. If he leaves it’s because the number was insane or because he wanted to.
RE: Certainly not official, but who would be surprised?
Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
You're pissed about paying Stanton less than $27 million a year till he's 38 but you're okay with paying Judge $40 million till he's 40 or 41? That's logical.
if the reporting earlier on the NYY vs SFG offers, SFG came in a little higher so to that extent the Yankees "let" him go. But if that were the only stumbling block, it could be worked out. It looks like Judge wanted to go home to the Bay Area. Like deGrom, he wanted to leave NYC. There's only so much that the team can do in that situation.
I think this situation is unprecedented in Yankee history, though, isn't it? SFG doing to the Yankees what the Yankees have been doing to other teams since the dawn of free agency. And never mind that it's the reigning MVP and the Yankees' face of the franchise.
Maybe not to the same extent just because of the season Judge just had but Cano was a similar caliber player if you remove the 2022 season from Judge’s resume and Cano left at the same age. They also lost Clemens and Pettite to Houston in FA, Reggie Jackson once upon a time and I’m sure there’s a couple of others I’m forgetting.
RE: RE: Certainly not official, but who would be surprised?
Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
You're pissed about paying Stanton less than $27 million a year till he's 38 but you're okay with paying Judge $40 million till he's 40 or 41? That's logical.
Are you struggling to understand that one of those players is significantly better than the other at the time these decisions were made?
If true, my guess is he has no confidence in Cashman...
So if the Giants are still at $360m I don’t think Cashman lets him leave over $20 million. If he leaves it’s because the number was insane or because he wanted to.
.
How do you know the Yanks went up to 340 Mill.?
I didn't hear that from anyone (yet).
Yeah cuz hes gonna be relying on Nissan of Smithtown commercials to keep the lights on.
🤣
The top players in sports can play almost anywhere and still get crazy advertisement money. They're global. It's the lesser tiered players where a bigger market probably helps.
Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
No quarrel with paying Stanton. Frankly, I don't care how much the Yankees need to pay in luxury tax or salaries.
Cashman blew it when he didn't sign Judge to a long term contract and buy out his arbitration years after his first or second season in the majors when he already had a 52 home run season under his belt as the Angels did with Trout. Instead, he let Judge go to arbitration and then let him walk into free agency. At best, this idiot cost his employer at least a hundred million dollars and at worst lost a valuable asset that put ticket holders in the seat.
So if the Giants are still at $360m I don’t think Cashman lets him leave over $20 million. If he leaves it’s because the number was insane or because he wanted to.
.
How do you know the Yanks went up to 340 Mill.?
I didn't hear that from anyone (yet).
That’s the number that’s been floating around and Kay said they upped it.
if it plays out this way. While I thought Judge would come back, I wouldn't be shocked if he goes to SF.
What I await is what kind of dumb, reactionary move the Yankees make to quell the PR hit as they start asking fans to re-up their season tix packages (good luck!). So that means going after any other big name around, preferably to take from the Red Sox or Mets because that's how they will try to handle the back page.
Honestly, the only real move that they would make which would get attention is to empty the farm for Ohtani.
If Judge does leave, everything is on the table because the Yankees will act like a wounded animal w/ Hal and Cashman trying to change perception. No one is going to accept a rebuild and wait for the kids when they are spending all that money on Cole, Stanton and friends.
Are you struggling to understand that one of those players is significantly better than the other at the time these decisions were made?
Stanton was 27 and coming off a 59 HR season. I'm not sure the above is true.
Judge was a better fielder and a far superior baserunner despite being several years older. Aaron Judge finished 4th in the MVP voting last season. Stanton, OTOH, had two injury plagued seasons prior to winning that MVP. In the 6 seasons prior to the decisions, Judge had a WAR of 36 compared to Stanton’s 27.
Stanton obviously wasn’t a bum, but Judge was a significantly better player at the time these decisions needed to be made. It’s difficult for me to believe that the same guys who traded for Stanton with that contract (even with the Marlins kicking in 30 million) are now going to be worried about what they’re paying someone in their late 30s.
Why would he want to stay? I'm not being a dick. He seems to have been annoyed at how the Yankees have handled this. If it is true he doesn't like Cashman and you just saw Cash get extended for 4 more years, then that can't be good.
As a Yankees fan, we are all annoyed at the inflexible approach to their analytics. The Yankees can spend more than probably every other team. Yet, they continually make the same mistakes every year.
Does anybody feel confident of the Yanks putting together a legit championship team? How many times do we need to see our bats fail us against top notch pitching. How many years have to pass where the Yanks say that strikeouts are the sams as every other out? The philosophy is not changing. I'm sure we'll be a very good team but be a team that always gets bounced in the playoffs.
he leaves.
It is a lot of things...money, lifestyle(just got married), perceived slight vs Cashman and fans, more comfortable in Cali.
If he is pissed at getting booed, he is pretty thin skinned - the guy was putrid at the plate and I am certain he was disappointed. Booing is part of the game.
But I would not be surprised that it is easier to raise a family in SF than in NYC.
It’s very strange. I’m a huge Yankee fan and a huge Judge fan. But I’m finding myself not caring as much as I thought I would about the idea of him leaving. This team needs much more than Aaron Judge to win a title. And paying him a massive deal is undoubtedly going to hamstring them going forward.
This is different than Bernie Williams to me. They were already a championship team when they almost lost Bernie. That would have knocked the legs off a championship roster and really hurt. They aren’t a championship roster with Judge at the contract he was playing at for the past few years. It’s only going to be worse at $40M a year.
they would have given a strong offer up front. Judge would have been a done deal, and not for any more than the last offer. I truly believe they felt crazy money was too much for a 31 year old. They play this "almost" game to appease the fans. The Yanks front office is ready to move on.
It’s very strange. I’m a huge Yankee fan and a huge Judge fan. But I’m finding myself not caring as much as I thought I would about the idea of him leaving.
Same here, I just wish I had more faith in the organization to pivot to a good plan B.
It’s very strange. I’m a huge Yankee fan and a huge Judge fan. But I’m finding myself not caring as much as I thought I would about the idea of him leaving. This team needs much more than Aaron Judge to win a title. And paying him a massive deal is undoubtedly going to hamstring them going forward.
This is different than Bernie Williams to me. They were already a championship team when they almost lost Bernie. That would have knocked the legs off a championship roster and really hurt. They aren’t a championship roster with Judge at the contract he was playing at for the past few years. It’s only going to be worse at $40M a year.
It's only going to hamstring them because they choose to hamstring themselves. If they lose Judge, would it really surpise anyone to see the Yanks overpay somebody and give Nimmo an Ellsbury type deal or something like that?
Yep. It was reported as basically a done deal like this and changed at the last minute.
Bernie agreed to the deal with Boston and was about to sign. He called George to say that he was going to leave but really wanted to be a Yankee. George ponied up the money and got it done before any press conferences happened with the Red Sox. The Yankees had a deal ready for Albert Belle if I remember and called that off at the last second and he went to Baltimore.
Aaron Judge predicted Giants tenure, marriage to wife Sam
Aaron Judge was a passionate Giants fan while growing up in Linden, Calif. As a senior at Linden High School, Judge made a prediction to his then-girlfriend, now-wife Samantha Bracksieck about his future playing baseball in the Bay Area.
“I said, in 10 years, I’ll be married to Sam and playing for the San Francisco Giants,” Judge recalled to Sean Gregory of TIME Magazine. "I was like, 'That’d better not get out.' "
Sure Judge is not the first professional athlete that has said that to their friends, family,girlfriend that they want to play for their home town team.
that SF and some players there think they have Judge locked up. I think he’s gone. I just hope Cashman doesn’t make panic moves.
I think he's gone personally but every minute that passes makes it more likely that he actually hasn't made up his mind (at least not 100%) as Heyman and others seem to have thought.
It’s been over an hour now and this is still bullshit
I’ve got no problem saying that in a world where Cody friggin Bellinger is worth that, Judge is worth $40m. The Yankees have more money than anyone. They should never be outbid. They print money.
RE: RE: It’s been over an hour now and this is still bullshit
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
that SF and some players there think they have Judge locked up. I think he’s gone. I just hope Cashman doesn’t make panic moves.
I think he's gone personally but every minute that passes makes it more likely that he actually hasn't made up his mind (at least not 100%) as Heyman and others seem to have thought.
It’s perfectly legit to hammer Heyman for jumping the gun here. He deserves it. But he didn’t just throw a dart at the wall. He obviously heard something. Also SF reporters are saying they’ve been told by players and execs have told them Judge is headed to SF.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Are you an idiot, a Met fan or both ? "Foundational Rot ?" Is that how you describe a franchise that hasn't had a losing season in well over a quarter of a century and has gone to the playoffs in over 75% of those seasons ? Ancient history ? Lets just take the period of Judge's career. 6 seasons, 6 trips to the playoffs and 3 ACLS's. Certainly its a disappointment that they've only that they've only won 5 rings in 30 years, but unfortunately there are 29 other teams.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Are you an idiot, a Met fan or both ? "Foundational Rot ?" Is that how you describe a franchise that hasn't had a losing season in well over a quarter of a century and has gone to the playoffs in over 75% of those seasons ? Ancient history ? Lets just take the period of Judge's career. 6 seasons, 6 trips to the playoffs and 3 ACLS's. Certainly its a disappointment that they've only that they've only won 5 rings in 30 years, but unfortunately there are 29 other teams.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
They are worth 7B, and have a revenue north of 700M a year.
Now they are counting pennies, preaching "process" when there are no results to show, and making up excuses like injuries and Astros cheating, but we are okay with that?
Then we deserve Cashman as the GM for life perhaps.
I read that as Judge told the Yankees he wants $400 million, they may have not have committed to it on the spot or have played hardball with him and he wanted to put the fear of God into them.
Ultimately I think that is what it will take to keep him here, $400 million. His agent and himself have played this perfectly.
The Yankees, not so much. Cashman is an asshole for leaking the original offer and a part of me completely gets why Judge is sticking it to them right now whether he resigns or not.
clutching rosary beads at the winter meetings hoping Judge returns is such a weak look. This franchise has lost its edge - I want Judge back too but there’s no reason for the fate of the franchise to hinge on it.
Except that the owner then was the Steinbrenner who loved baseball & the Yankees,& would do anything to win.George matched the Red Sox offer in a one on one sit down with Bernie. This Steinbrenner doesn't love the Yankees,it's questionable if he even likes baseball,is only about the bottom line which is why he will keep the Yankees competitive, but winning a championship only means 3-4 more games of revenue in the World Series. And, the reason he continues to pursue Judge is about the revenue,not the Yankee legacy! Good enough is good enough Hal!
Now they are counting pennies, preaching "process" when there are no results to show, and making up excuses like injuries and Astros cheating, but we are okay with that?
Then we deserve Cashman as the GM for life perhaps.
Bingo. If this was the Cardinals or the Dodgers, we could actually trust that they’d be able to let Judge walk and use a combo of the farm system and available resources to keep a highly competitive team. This ain’t that. So they need to use their one true advantage, which is MONEY.
Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
Yes they do not finish, but is there another team in the same time period close to to making the postseason 20 out of 22 years?
That's because Hal knows that in order to make a profit, the Yankees must be competitive. He allows Cashman some leeway to maintain that competitiveness, but winning it all only means 3-4 extra games of revenue!Because for Hal, Good enough is good enough!
I think his last injury was a collapsed lung that took 5 months to find...while I agree that $40 mill for 10 years is way too much, it has more to do with diminishing skills in the last 5 years vs injury. He is not Giancarlo Stanton.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Are you an idiot, a Met fan or both ? "Foundational Rot ?" Is that how you describe a franchise that hasn't had a losing season in well over a quarter of a century and has gone to the playoffs in over 75% of those seasons ? Ancient history ? Lets just take the period of Judge's career. 6 seasons, 6 trips to the playoffs and 3 ACLS's. Certainly its a disappointment that they've only that they've only won 5 rings in 30 years, but unfortunately there are 29 other teams.
You’re an idiot - keep running the same stupid team out there year after year. Who gives a shit about the regular season. You’re not winning the World Series with this strategy. Cashman is rot. He’s been given a pass and now a 4 year extension. Sign him to a 360 9 year deal. Let’s see how this works out
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yanks have foundational rot at their core
Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
Yes they do not finish, but is there another team in the same time period close to to making the postseason 20 out of 22 years?
That's because Hal knows that in order to make a profit, the Yankees must be competitive. He allows Cashman some leeway to maintain that competitiveness, but winning it all only means 3-4 extra games of revenue!Because for Hal, Good enough is good enough!
I would say where they spend their money is more of a problem then how much they spend. And that is on talent evals by Cash & Co. I.e., not getting Verlander 5(?) years ago.
Hal's mistake is keeping Cashman...
Look around the league. The "top tier" free agents are massive annual numbers for contract lengths taking them near or past 40. Seems that's just the marketplace.
And perhaps it will prove to be costly and unfruitful for the teams partaking, but the attitude of clubs like LAD, SDP, PHI, NYM and apparently now SFG appears to be that it's the price of poker if you want to be a contender year in and year out.
Surely it doesn't mean that following suit is the only way to play ball, but if this isn't it, what's core competencies or competitive advantages do you have, NYY, that allow you to achieve the same without such contracts?
For the Braves, we've seen that the strategy is to be extremely aggressive about locking up players early. Risky because the players are less proven, but they've saved boatloads on AAV and have contract end dates with the players in their early and mid 30s. This approach has been considered heresy by the NYY with their premiere players since Cano.
For the Rays, it's a constant shuffle of bringing in elite minor leaguers by moving on from solid major league talent before their pay-days, and being aggressive about getting those prospects into the lineup. This doesn't seem to play in the NY market, and NYY have been overly reluctant to give call up bright young players and give them runway. They treat them like china dolls, as if they'll be broken forever if even slightly jostled. They keep them on the shelves, show them off to anyone who comes by the house, but draw no benefit from them other the satisfaction of having told others they have them.
For Houston, it's been a mix of all of the above. Elite talent identification in the draft and IFA. Outstanding development with aggressive approach, and supporting the young core via mostly old free agents short term contracts at high AAVs. If the free agent plays don't work out, it's fine because the term is short and the pipeline is getting the most out of players going through the system and they're not at all afraid to put them on the field as soon as needed. The Yankees haven't shown the slightest capability to operate this way.
NYY has been swearing up and down that they have the infield of the future in-house. The outfield is the mess, and they best outfielder in the game is an unrestricted free agent. And somehow they've let it go this far without getting it figured out.
There's still a lot to play out, but the organization isn't inspiring a lot of confidence right now, and quite frankly I have my concerns even if they are able to retain Judge.
With or without Judge, the leadership of the Yankees going into next season does not inspire confidence. The signing of Cashman may spell four more years of the same? Very good, likely playoff run, but not enough to be great. Anyone really think we can compete against Houston when the chips are down? They are ahead of the Yankees and putting distance between.
And Judge may be factoring that in? We will likely never know the answer to that if he does leave. I do think if he leaves, it won't be just about the money.
Would like him to stay, my only hope that if he does leave, that the front office gets a bit of a wakeup call. But I doubt it...I could see the FO replacing Judge with Brett G.
Look around the league. The "top tier" free agents are massive annual numbers for contract lengths taking them near or past 40. Seems that's just the marketplace.
And perhaps it will prove to be costly and unfruitful for the teams partaking, but the attitude of clubs like LAD, SDP, PHI, NYM and apparently now SFG appears to be that it's the price of poker if you want to be a contender year in and year out.
Surely it doesn't mean that following suit is the only way to play ball, but if this isn't it, what's core competencies or competitive advantages do you have, NYY, that allow you to achieve the same without such contracts?
For the Braves, we've seen that the strategy is to be extremely aggressive about locking up players early. Risky because the players are less proven, but they've saved boatloads on AAV and have contract end dates with the players in their early and mid 30s. This approach has been considered heresy by the NYY with their premiere players since Cano.
For the Rays, it's a constant shuffle of bringing in elite minor leaguers by moving on from solid major league talent before their pay-days, and being aggressive about getting those prospects into the lineup. This doesn't seem to play in the NY market, and NYY have been overly reluctant to give call up bright young players and give them runway. They treat them like china dolls, as if they'll be broken forever if even slightly jostled. They keep them on the shelves, show them off to anyone who comes by the house, but draw no benefit from them other the satisfaction of having told others they have them.
For Houston, it's been a mix of all of the above. Elite talent identification in the draft and IFA. Outstanding development with aggressive approach, and supporting the young core via mostly old free agents short term contracts at high AAVs. If the free agent plays don't work out, it's fine because the term is short and the pipeline is getting the most out of players going through the system and they're not at all afraid to put them on the field as soon as needed. The Yankees haven't shown the slightest capability to operate this way.
NYY has been swearing up and down that they have the infield of the future in-house. The outfield is the mess, and they best outfielder in the game is an unrestricted free agent. And somehow they've let it go this far without getting it figured out.
There's still a lot to play out, but the organization isn't inspiring a lot of confidence right now, and quite frankly I have my concerns even if they are able to retain Judge.
Look around the league. The "top tier" free agents are massive annual numbers for contract lengths taking them near or past 40. Seems that's just the marketplace.
And perhaps it will prove to be costly and unfruitful for the teams partaking, but the attitude of clubs like LAD, SDP, PHI, NYM and apparently now SFG appears to be that it's the price of poker if you want to be a contender year in and year out.
Surely it doesn't mean that following suit is the only way to play ball, but if this isn't it, what's core competencies or competitive advantages do you have, NYY, that allow you to achieve the same without such contracts?
For the Braves, we've seen that the strategy is to be extremely aggressive about locking up players early. Risky because the players are less proven, but they've saved boatloads on AAV and have contract end dates with the players in their early and mid 30s. This approach has been considered heresy by the NYY with their premiere players since Cano.
For the Rays, it's a constant shuffle of bringing in elite minor leaguers by moving on from solid major league talent before their pay-days, and being aggressive about getting those prospects into the lineup. This doesn't seem to play in the NY market, and NYY have been overly reluctant to give call up bright young players and give them runway. They treat them like china dolls, as if they'll be broken forever if even slightly jostled. They keep them on the shelves, show them off to anyone who comes by the house, but draw no benefit from them other the satisfaction of having told others they have them.
For Houston, it's been a mix of all of the above. Elite talent identification in the draft and IFA. Outstanding development with aggressive approach, and supporting the young core via mostly old free agents short term contracts at high AAVs. If the free agent plays don't work out, it's fine because the term is short and the pipeline is getting the most out of players going through the system and they're not at all afraid to put them on the field as soon as needed. The Yankees haven't shown the slightest capability to operate this way.
NYY has been swearing up and down that they have the infield of the future in-house. The outfield is the mess, and they best outfielder in the game is an unrestricted free agent. And somehow they've let it go this far without getting it figured out.
There's still a lot to play out, but the organization isn't inspiring a lot of confidence right now, and quite frankly I have my concerns even if they are able to retain Judge.
Bleacher Report - ( New Window )
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Enjoy losing in San Fran
If I’m yanks
I go get Rodon, bogaerts, Benny to start
They didn’t “let” he wants to go to San Fran. You’re acting like yanks offered him $14 a game
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Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
They didn’t “let” he wants to go to San Fran. You’re acting like yanks offered him $14 a game
I’m stunned that Hal and Cashman still have people willing to make excuses for them.
Quote:
In comment 15936211 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
They didn’t “let” he wants to go to San Fran. You’re acting like yanks offered him $14 a game
I’m stunned that Hal and Cashman still have people willing to make excuses for them.
LOL who is defending them? I simply said we are making offers. We aren’t letting him walk. I don’t like the way Cashman has constructed roster I was ready to fire him
I think this situation is unprecedented in Yankee history, though, isn't it? SFG doing to the Yankees what the Yankees have been doing to other teams since the dawn of free agency. And never mind that it's the reigning MVP and the Yankees' face of the franchise.
I don’t understand this POV. Do you think that he leaves if they offer him the most money or years? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. If you truly want a player, you have to put your money where your mouth is. They did it with Gerrit Cole.
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Cano #2...Yes I am vested as a diehard but if he leaves I wish him the best but really think he will be sorry....have to respect his choice whatever it is...
I don’t understand this POV. Do you think that he leaves if they offer him the most money or years? It’s possible, but highly unlikely. If you truly want a player, you have to put your money where your mouth is. They did it with Gerrit Cole.
So what is your jumping off point? How much is too much? Whatever they pay him is going to directly affect what they can do with the rest of the roster for the next decade. So what’s your limit?
Also, if he leaves how do you know it wasn’t his intention all along? It wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to connect all the dots dating back to this past offseason that he may just prefer to go back to Cali. I can’t stand Cashman either, but blaming him right now before we have any details whatsoever is amateur hour. Let alone the fact he hasn’t even officially left yet…
You're pissed about paying Stanton less than $27 million a year till he's 38 but you're okay with paying Judge $40 million till he's 40 or 41? That's logical.
I think this situation is unprecedented in Yankee history, though, isn't it? SFG doing to the Yankees what the Yankees have been doing to other teams since the dawn of free agency. And never mind that it's the reigning MVP and the Yankees' face of the franchise.
Maybe not to the same extent just because of the season Judge just had but Cano was a similar caliber player if you remove the 2022 season from Judge’s resume and Cano left at the same age. They also lost Clemens and Pettite to Houston in FA, Reggie Jackson once upon a time and I’m sure there’s a couple of others I’m forgetting.
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Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
You're pissed about paying Stanton less than $27 million a year till he's 38 but you're okay with paying Judge $40 million till he's 40 or 41? That's logical.
Are you struggling to understand that one of those players is significantly better than the other at the time these decisions were made?
Stanton was 27 and coming off a 59 HR season. I'm not sure the above is true.
Quote:
Are you struggling to understand that one of those players is significantly better than the other at the time these decisions were made?
Stanton was 27 and coming off a 59 HR season. I'm not sure the above is true.
Ya. Wasn't he one of the most feared hitters, when healthy then?
No comparison with Italian food sorry, not sorry.
He won't get nearly the advertisement chances compared to NYC
How do you know the Yanks went up to 340 Mill.?
I didn't hear that from anyone (yet).
🤣
The top players in sports can play almost anywhere and still get crazy advertisement money. They're global. It's the lesser tiered players where a bigger market probably helps.
Cashman blew it when he didn't sign Judge to a long term contract and buy out his arbitration years after his first or second season in the majors when he already had a 52 home run season under his belt as the Angels did with Trout. Instead, he let Judge go to arbitration and then let him walk into free agency. At best, this idiot cost his employer at least a hundred million dollars and at worst lost a valuable asset that put ticket holders in the seat.
Thanks.
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So if the Giants are still at $360m I don’t think Cashman lets him leave over $20 million. If he leaves it’s because the number was insane or because he wanted to.
.
How do you know the Yanks went up to 340 Mill.?
I didn't hear that from anyone (yet).
That’s the number that’s been floating around and Kay said they upped it.
What I await is what kind of dumb, reactionary move the Yankees make to quell the PR hit as they start asking fans to re-up their season tix packages (good luck!). So that means going after any other big name around, preferably to take from the Red Sox or Mets because that's how they will try to handle the back page.
Honestly, the only real move that they would make which would get attention is to empty the farm for Ohtani.
If Judge does leave, everything is on the table because the Yankees will act like a wounded animal w/ Hal and Cashman trying to change perception. No one is going to accept a rebuild and wait for the kids when they are spending all that money on Cole, Stanton and friends.
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Are you struggling to understand that one of those players is significantly better than the other at the time these decisions were made?
Stanton was 27 and coming off a 59 HR season. I'm not sure the above is true.
Judge was a better fielder and a far superior baserunner despite being several years older. Aaron Judge finished 4th in the MVP voting last season. Stanton, OTOH, had two injury plagued seasons prior to winning that MVP. In the 6 seasons prior to the decisions, Judge had a WAR of 36 compared to Stanton’s 27.
Stanton obviously wasn’t a bum, but Judge was a significantly better player at the time these decisions needed to be made. It’s difficult for me to believe that the same guys who traded for Stanton with that contract (even with the Marlins kicking in 30 million) are now going to be worried about what they’re paying someone in their late 30s.
As a Yankees fan, we are all annoyed at the inflexible approach to their analytics. The Yankees can spend more than probably every other team. Yet, they continually make the same mistakes every year.
Does anybody feel confident of the Yanks putting together a legit championship team? How many times do we need to see our bats fail us against top notch pitching. How many years have to pass where the Yanks say that strikeouts are the sams as every other out? The philosophy is not changing. I'm sure we'll be a very good team but be a team that always gets bounced in the playoffs.
christian, sorta weird that some think of SF as some backwater town. Haha.
Delete.
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It is a lot of things...money, lifestyle(just got married), perceived slight vs Cashman and fans, more comfortable in Cali.
If he is pissed at getting booed, he is pretty thin skinned - the guy was putrid at the plate and I am certain he was disappointed. Booing is part of the game.
But I would not be surprised that it is easier to raise a family in SF than in NYC.
This is different than Bernie Williams to me. They were already a championship team when they almost lost Bernie. That would have knocked the legs off a championship roster and really hurt. They aren’t a championship roster with Judge at the contract he was playing at for the past few years. It’s only going to be worse at $40M a year.
My stomach totally dropped seeing the false posts. More than I thought it would! Still a chance? I guess?
Yep. It was reported as basically a done deal like this and changed at the last minute.
This thread should be deleted. No need for people to see that Subjecf when they log onto BBI
Same here, I just wish I had more faith in the organization to pivot to a good plan B.
This is different than Bernie Williams to me. They were already a championship team when they almost lost Bernie. That would have knocked the legs off a championship roster and really hurt. They aren’t a championship roster with Judge at the contract he was playing at for the past few years. It’s only going to be worse at $40M a year.
It's only going to hamstring them because they choose to hamstring themselves. If they lose Judge, would it really surpise anyone to see the Yanks overpay somebody and give Nimmo an Ellsbury type deal or something like that?
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DK, Bernie almost signed with the Sox right?
Yep. It was reported as basically a done deal like this and changed at the last minute.
Bernie agreed to the deal with Boston and was about to sign. He called George to say that he was going to leave but really wanted to be a Yankee. George ponied up the money and got it done before any press conferences happened with the Red Sox. The Yankees had a deal ready for Albert Belle if I remember and called that off at the last second and he went to Baltimore.
as High Schooler.
Tom Dierberger
Tue, December 6, 2022 at 1:45 PM
From the Article
Aaron Judge was a passionate Giants fan while growing up in Linden, Calif. As a senior at Linden High School, Judge made a prediction to his then-girlfriend, now-wife Samantha Bracksieck about his future playing baseball in the Bay Area.
“I said, in 10 years, I’ll be married to Sam and playing for the San Francisco Giants,” Judge recalled to Sean Gregory of TIME Magazine. "I was like, 'That’d better not get out.' "
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I think he's gone personally but every minute that passes makes it more likely that he actually hasn't made up his mind (at least not 100%) as Heyman and others seem to have thought.
Delete.
Bellinger signed with the Cubs.
Delete.
While I think this should be deleted, you’re still fucking annoying. Go away.
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Announcing Donaldson as the #3 hitter all season?
Bellinger signed with the Cubs.
$17.5m.
I’ve got no problem saying that in a world where Cody friggin Bellinger is worth that, Judge is worth $40m. The Yankees have more money than anyone. They should never be outbid. They print money.
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All this was is speculation.
Delete.
While I think this should be deleted, you’re still fucking annoying. Go away.
Lmao. The feeling’s mutual dipshit! How about I don’t and you fuck right off?
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In comment 15936329 bwitz said:
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All this was is speculation.
Delete.
While I think this should be deleted, you’re still fucking annoying. Go away.
Lmao. The feeling’s mutual dipshit! How about I don’t and you fuck right off?
LOL bwitz does this every thread. He jus tells people to fuck off LOl
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Announcing Donaldson as the #3 hitter all season?
Bellinger signed with the Cubs.
Bellinger might be gone but Conforto is right there for the taking!
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
You do the same shtick every thread dude. People notice when you contribute nothing but being an asshole.
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that SF and some players there think they have Judge locked up. I think he’s gone. I just hope Cashman doesn’t make panic moves.
I think he's gone personally but every minute that passes makes it more likely that he actually hasn't made up his mind (at least not 100%) as Heyman and others seem to have thought.
It’s perfectly legit to hammer Heyman for jumping the gun here. He deserves it. But he didn’t just throw a dart at the wall. He obviously heard something. Also SF reporters are saying they’ve been told by players and execs have told them Judge is headed to SF.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
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Yes they win the division or the wildcard.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Are you an idiot, a Met fan or both ? "Foundational Rot ?" Is that how you describe a franchise that hasn't had a losing season in well over a quarter of a century and has gone to the playoffs in over 75% of those seasons ? Ancient history ? Lets just take the period of Judge's career. 6 seasons, 6 trips to the playoffs and 3 ACLS's. Certainly its a disappointment that they've only that they've only won 5 rings in 30 years, but unfortunately there are 29 other teams.
Probably Sox
good 1
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
Then we deserve Cashman as the GM for life perhaps.
Ultimately I think that is what it will take to keep him here, $400 million. His agent and himself have played this perfectly.
The Yankees, not so much. Cashman is an asshole for leaking the original offer and a part of me completely gets why Judge is sticking it to them right now whether he resigns or not.
Except that the owner then was the Steinbrenner who loved baseball & the Yankees,& would do anything to win.George matched the Red Sox offer in a one on one sit down with Bernie. This Steinbrenner doesn't love the Yankees,it's questionable if he even likes baseball,is only about the bottom line which is why he will keep the Yankees competitive, but winning a championship only means 3-4 more games of revenue in the World Series. And, the reason he continues to pursue Judge is about the revenue,not the Yankee legacy! Good enough is good enough Hal!
Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
Yes they do not finish, but is there another team in the same time period close to to making the postseason 20 out of 22 years?
Then we deserve Cashman as the GM for life perhaps.
Bingo. If this was the Cardinals or the Dodgers, we could actually trust that they’d be able to let Judge walk and use a combo of the farm system and available resources to keep a highly competitive team. This ain’t that. So they need to use their one true advantage, which is MONEY.
Ciao!
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Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
Yes they do not finish, but is there another team in the same time period close to to making the postseason 20 out of 22 years?
That's because Hal knows that in order to make a profit, the Yankees must be competitive. He allows Cashman some leeway to maintain that competitiveness, but winning it all only means 3-4 extra games of revenue!Because for Hal, Good enough is good enough!
Ciao!
I think his last injury was a collapsed lung that took 5 months to find...while I agree that $40 mill for 10 years is way too much, it has more to do with diminishing skills in the last 5 years vs injury. He is not Giancarlo Stanton.
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Yes they win the division or the wildcard.
Postseason is different. they aren’t built to win there. Stepping away from judge will hopefully force them to change. I don’t trust cashman unfortunately.
Also why do we think judge won’t miss time. During each of these seasons. He’s only getting older.
Are you an idiot, a Met fan or both ? "Foundational Rot ?" Is that how you describe a franchise that hasn't had a losing season in well over a quarter of a century and has gone to the playoffs in over 75% of those seasons ? Ancient history ? Lets just take the period of Judge's career. 6 seasons, 6 trips to the playoffs and 3 ACLS's. Certainly its a disappointment that they've only that they've only won 5 rings in 30 years, but unfortunately there are 29 other teams.
You’re an idiot - keep running the same stupid team out there year after year. Who gives a shit about the regular season. You’re not winning the World Series with this strategy. Cashman is rot. He’s been given a pass and now a 4 year extension. Sign him to a 360 9 year deal. Let’s see how this works out
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In comment 15936430 Vanzetti said:
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Stats don’t lie: Yanks made the playoffs 20 times since 2000 and only won one championship
So something’s not right
Yes they do not finish, but is there another team in the same time period close to to making the postseason 20 out of 22 years?
That's because Hal knows that in order to make a profit, the Yankees must be competitive. He allows Cashman some leeway to maintain that competitiveness, but winning it all only means 3-4 extra games of revenue!Because for Hal, Good enough is good enough!
I would say where they spend their money is more of a problem then how much they spend. And that is on talent evals by Cash & Co. I.e., not getting Verlander 5(?) years ago.
Hal's mistake is keeping Cashman...
And perhaps it will prove to be costly and unfruitful for the teams partaking, but the attitude of clubs like LAD, SDP, PHI, NYM and apparently now SFG appears to be that it's the price of poker if you want to be a contender year in and year out.
Surely it doesn't mean that following suit is the only way to play ball, but if this isn't it, what's core competencies or competitive advantages do you have, NYY, that allow you to achieve the same without such contracts?
For the Braves, we've seen that the strategy is to be extremely aggressive about locking up players early. Risky because the players are less proven, but they've saved boatloads on AAV and have contract end dates with the players in their early and mid 30s. This approach has been considered heresy by the NYY with their premiere players since Cano.
For the Rays, it's a constant shuffle of bringing in elite minor leaguers by moving on from solid major league talent before their pay-days, and being aggressive about getting those prospects into the lineup. This doesn't seem to play in the NY market, and NYY have been overly reluctant to give call up bright young players and give them runway. They treat them like china dolls, as if they'll be broken forever if even slightly jostled. They keep them on the shelves, show them off to anyone who comes by the house, but draw no benefit from them other the satisfaction of having told others they have them.
For Houston, it's been a mix of all of the above. Elite talent identification in the draft and IFA. Outstanding development with aggressive approach, and supporting the young core via mostly old free agents short term contracts at high AAVs. If the free agent plays don't work out, it's fine because the term is short and the pipeline is getting the most out of players going through the system and they're not at all afraid to put them on the field as soon as needed. The Yankees haven't shown the slightest capability to operate this way.
NYY has been swearing up and down that they have the infield of the future in-house. The outfield is the mess, and they best outfielder in the game is an unrestricted free agent. And somehow they've let it go this far without getting it figured out.
There's still a lot to play out, but the organization isn't inspiring a lot of confidence right now, and quite frankly I have my concerns even if they are able to retain Judge.
And Judge may be factoring that in? We will likely never know the answer to that if he does leave. I do think if he leaves, it won't be just about the money.
Would like him to stay, my only hope that if he does leave, that the front office gets a bit of a wakeup call. But I doubt it...I could see the FO replacing Judge with Brett G.
Let's fucking go.
(I was truly, truly dreading a bad conversation with my 8 year old son. PHEW)
Rosenthal has it too, with numbers. Those guys aren't fucking idiots like Heyman, I think it can be trusted.
And perhaps it will prove to be costly and unfruitful for the teams partaking, but the attitude of clubs like LAD, SDP, PHI, NYM and apparently now SFG appears to be that it's the price of poker if you want to be a contender year in and year out.
Surely it doesn't mean that following suit is the only way to play ball, but if this isn't it, what's core competencies or competitive advantages do you have, NYY, that allow you to achieve the same without such contracts?
For the Braves, we've seen that the strategy is to be extremely aggressive about locking up players early. Risky because the players are less proven, but they've saved boatloads on AAV and have contract end dates with the players in their early and mid 30s. This approach has been considered heresy by the NYY with their premiere players since Cano.
For the Rays, it's a constant shuffle of bringing in elite minor leaguers by moving on from solid major league talent before their pay-days, and being aggressive about getting those prospects into the lineup. This doesn't seem to play in the NY market, and NYY have been overly reluctant to give call up bright young players and give them runway. They treat them like china dolls, as if they'll be broken forever if even slightly jostled. They keep them on the shelves, show them off to anyone who comes by the house, but draw no benefit from them other the satisfaction of having told others they have them.
For Houston, it's been a mix of all of the above. Elite talent identification in the draft and IFA. Outstanding development with aggressive approach, and supporting the young core via mostly old free agents short term contracts at high AAVs. If the free agent plays don't work out, it's fine because the term is short and the pipeline is getting the most out of players going through the system and they're not at all afraid to put them on the field as soon as needed. The Yankees haven't shown the slightest capability to operate this way.
NYY has been swearing up and down that they have the infield of the future in-house. The outfield is the mess, and they best outfielder in the game is an unrestricted free agent. And somehow they've let it go this far without getting it figured out.
There's still a lot to play out, but the organization isn't inspiring a lot of confidence right now, and quite frankly I have my concerns even if they are able to retain Judge.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35202619/aaron-judge-agrees-9-year-360m-deal-stick-yankees-per-report - ( New Window )
Usually above his name, at the bottom of the contract alongside Cashman's and Steinbrenner's....
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In comment 15936211 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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Keep shitheads like Cashman and Boone around, pay Giancarlo Stanton until he’s 38 years old, and let your best player walk out the door in his prime.
They didn’t “let” he wants to go to San Fran. You’re acting like yanks offered him $14 a game
I’m stunned that Hal and Cashman still have people willing to make excuses for them.
This hot take didn't age well.
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Look around the league. The "top tier" free agents are massive annual numbers for contract lengths taking them near or past 40. Seems that's just the marketplace.
And perhaps it will prove to be costly and unfruitful for the teams partaking, but the attitude of clubs like LAD, SDP, PHI, NYM and apparently now SFG appears to be that it's the price of poker if you want to be a contender year in and year out.
Surely it doesn't mean that following suit is the only way to play ball, but if this isn't it, what's core competencies or competitive advantages do you have, NYY, that allow you to achieve the same without such contracts?
For the Braves, we've seen that the strategy is to be extremely aggressive about locking up players early. Risky because the players are less proven, but they've saved boatloads on AAV and have contract end dates with the players in their early and mid 30s. This approach has been considered heresy by the NYY with their premiere players since Cano.
For the Rays, it's a constant shuffle of bringing in elite minor leaguers by moving on from solid major league talent before their pay-days, and being aggressive about getting those prospects into the lineup. This doesn't seem to play in the NY market, and NYY have been overly reluctant to give call up bright young players and give them runway. They treat them like china dolls, as if they'll be broken forever if even slightly jostled. They keep them on the shelves, show them off to anyone who comes by the house, but draw no benefit from them other the satisfaction of having told others they have them.
For Houston, it's been a mix of all of the above. Elite talent identification in the draft and IFA. Outstanding development with aggressive approach, and supporting the young core via mostly old free agents short term contracts at high AAVs. If the free agent plays don't work out, it's fine because the term is short and the pipeline is getting the most out of players going through the system and they're not at all afraid to put them on the field as soon as needed. The Yankees haven't shown the slightest capability to operate this way.
NYY has been swearing up and down that they have the infield of the future in-house. The outfield is the mess, and they best outfielder in the game is an unrestricted free agent. And somehow they've let it go this far without getting it figured out.
There's still a lot to play out, but the organization isn't inspiring a lot of confidence right now, and quite frankly I have my concerns even if they are able to retain Judge.
Good post +1
Pffffft. Bwahahahahahaha. More pathetic.