Daniel Jones and the fury of Big Blue Interactive

locked in their opinions the night he was drafted.

a bunch of broken records.

People are angrier online about everything these days, draw more of their identity from their stated online opinions. Maybe a factor? lol

He is in my mind are QB of the future. Look at Carolina and other teams bouncing around looking for a QB. Jones cand and does get it done. Just need to add WR and another TE as well. Team is good enough to win just need to fix WR core.

for me is, I don't know much more about him than I already at the beginning of the season. And that may not be on him. He has substandard targets but let the guy throw the ball. We already knew about the athleticism. He is good enough for right now, but is he what you build around TBD still I guess.

In comment 15936642 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

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locked in their opinions the night he was drafted.

+1. And some sort of transitive gettlemen hate.

statement, "He will never be good enough to win a SB" as a example and apply to most discussions I think if people would say "He will never win a SB unless this team gives him a upper tier OL, WR group, solid running game with a outstanding defense" conversations would go better. The reality of being able to have that kind of team when your QB gets expensive is incredibly difficult.

I think even on this board a very high percentage treat cost as a critical component to any decision on Jones. A good percentage also consider the draft and what is or not available.

Much smaller groups are "Jones is the guy 100%" or "Jones stinks under any scenario" imv.

is, it’s really just the same handful of posters posting 24/7/365. Once you realize that, it becomes pretty silly and easy to ignore.

I’d imagine most people are just anxious to find out what the Giants think, and we will soon.

In comment 15936655 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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statement, "He will never be good enough to win a SB" as a example and apply to most discussions I think if people would say "He will never win a SB unless this team gives him a upper tier OL, WR group, solid running game with a outstanding defense" conversations would go better. The reality of being able to have that kind of team when your QB gets expensive is incredibly difficult. I think even on this board a very high percentage treat cost as a critical component to any decision on Jones. A good percentage also consider the draft and what is or not available. Much smaller groups are "Jones is the guy 100%" or "Jones stinks under any scenario" imv.

And it’s another silly argument. What NFL team wins the Super Bowl without having a pretty good all around roster?

It’s the dirty little secret that gets ignored. You don’t JUST need a good QB - you still have to surround him with a Championship roster.

think Jones is the guy?

Because I don't.

We'll see after the season is over.

Is he really that much better than Jones? Give the kid a solid core around him and let's see how he looks. I'm not sure a better option is available in the draft or FA anyway.

In comment 15936657 mittenedman said:

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I’d imagine most people are just anxious to find out what the Giants think, and we will soon.

Whatever the Giants decide, there will be people here who still will not admit they were wrong. Whether the Giants keep Jones or let him go. Their actions will be the deciding factor here... not what someone with keyboard muscles on this website thinks.

But one day he will not be able to make plays with his legs. I need to see more evidence that he can fall back on being a pocket passer.

With their opinions, meaning he's either horrible or an all-pro when the reality is that the answer is likely in the middle. Jones is every bit of a legitimate starting QB in this league, however he isn't and will never be an elite player in the likes of Mahomes or Allen. He has things he does well, which doesn't make him elite, and he has things he doesn't do well, which doesn't make him a JAG.

The internet in general, and not just this board, likes to work in definitives and extremes, so you only here the "He's a star with a bad cast" or "he's horrible get rid of him" takes.

In comment 15936657 mittenedman said:

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is, it’s really just the same handful of posters posting 24/7/365. Once you realize that, it becomes pretty silly and easy to ignore. I’d imagine most people are just anxious to find out what the Giants think, and we will soon.

This

In comment 15936660 Gruber said:

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think Jones is the guy? Because I don't. We'll see after the season is over.

I dunno if this question is directed to me, but my answer is pretty straight-forward: I have no idea what Joe Schoen & Brian Daboll are thinking.

On the sideline for a miserable hour, you will see a player that is so easy to cheer for. But this is not goodvenough for some. The guy is going to be a good QB who continues to get better because he works his ass off. That is Daniel Jones.

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(1) He'll never be good enough to win a Super Bowl? (2) He can't put a team on his shoulders and just win? (3) He has fundamental flaws that can never be fixed? (4) He will always be a mediocrity no matter what? (5) He should have never been taken with the 6th pick? (6) He's holding the team back and they need a clean break from him? (7) He's simply not worth a second contract? (8) All of the above?

There's no shame in being a mediocre QB. I'm sure it will serve Daniel Jones well for the next decade as a backup or lower-middle NFL starter for teams that are not Super Bowl contenders.

It's hard to find a great QB. That doesn't mean you have to settle for mediocrity and pretend it might one day be great.

Be here next year, that I will guarantee. If he has a short term contract, so what, he is here mow and leading our team, cheer. Remember that, it's what fans do, they cheer.

1) Everyone shits on all our mediocre/bad players all the time. And there's not much argument about it because none of our other mediocre/bad players has a legion of fanatical supporters. Jones being Easy to Root For is a key factor here

2) You can't build a good team with a mediocre/bad QB. This is important. Other positions you can. A mediocre player like Slayton, a bad player like Crowder - you want to upgrade, but they could be on winning team in some capacity. Starting QB that is not the case. There's only 1 and who that 1 is is massively important to the future of the team

Daniel Jones is a free agent after this season.

He is not under contract. A lot of people have compared Jones to Ryan Tannehill. Tannehill received a 4 year deal for $118M ($29.5M APY).

So, would you sign Jones to the Tannehill contract? That’s the debate here. Giants have a QB need whether it’s resigning Jones, drafting someone or trading/signing someone else.

this year.

No QB will be perfect and football is the ultimate team sport.

I would be more concerned that our offense as a whole doesn't produce enough explosive plays. That is not all on the QB.

Jones has a great temperment. He has a great work ethic. His teammates seem to love him. He has stayed relatively healthy this year. He has improved his ball security. I would like to see a little more pocket awareness.

I think he should be signed to a multi year deal. Flame away .

In comment 15936699 Jerry in_DC said:

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1) Everyone shits on all our mediocre/bad players all the time. And there's not much argument about it because none of our other mediocre/bad players has a legion of fanatical supporters. Jones being Easy to Root For is a key factor here 2) You can't build a good team with a mediocre/bad QB. This is important. Other positions you can. A mediocre player like Slayton, a bad player like Crowder - you want to upgrade, but they could be on winning team in some capacity. Starting QB that is not the case. There's only 1 and who that 1 is is massively important to the future of the team

I follow everything you're saying thing here, but I'm confused over one detail: Are you saying Daniel Jones is a mediocre player, or a mediocre/bad player?

looks good to me

I mean I watched Brady score 2 TDs (3 really as one was called back for a penalty) late in the 4th Quarter to win a game and all I could think to myself is that Daniel Jones just cant do that

a $100 million deal with $30M+ cap hit and freak out whenever he’s criticized In any way. It’s a message board. People have strong opinions.

Acting like “BBI” is a monolithic entity that agrees on anything is ridiculous.

In comment 15936712 cjac said:

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looks good to me I mean I watched Brady score 2 TDs (3 really as one was called back for a penalty) late in the 4th Quarter to win a game and all I could think to myself is that Daniel Jones just cant do that

I wouldn’t say he can’t do that. Shit he had the commanders game almost won twice. Once negated by a penalty and again with Slayton dropping a deep pass

that are mediocre or bad. Maybe more. I'm trying to establish that group.

Whether Jones is mediocre or bad depends on what you're trying to do as a team and what his role is.

If you are trying to compete at the highest levels, he's bad. He will not allow you to do that.

If you're just chilling for a season or trying to chase the 7 seed, he's mediocre- he can do a job there, but not do it particularly well.

If you view him as a backup QB, he's quite good for that role.

In comment 15936704 Sean said:

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Daniel Jones is a free agent after this season. He is not under contract. A lot of people have compared Jones to Ryan Tannehill. Tannehill received a 4 year deal for $118M ($29.5M APY). So, would you sign Jones to the Tannehill contract? That’s the debate here. Giants have a QB need whether it’s resigning Jones, drafting someone or trading/signing someone else.

Sean -- am I correct then in saying that:
(a) Daniel Jones is Free Agent;
(b) He is not worth the money he may command on the open market; ergo,
(c) He ain't worth that, so you want to start with a fresh, new QB?

Have I got that right?

In comment 15936719 DC Gmen Fan said:

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In comment 15936712 cjac said: Quote: looks good to me I mean I watched Brady score 2 TDs (3 really as one was called back for a penalty) late in the 4th Quarter to win a game and all I could think to myself is that Daniel Jones just cant do that I wouldn’t say he can’t do that. Shit he had the commanders game almost won twice. Once negated by a penalty and again with Slayton dropping a deep pass

yeah i get it, he also had the entire 4th Quarter to make it a 2 score game. I just don't have faith in this guy.

Jones is a serviceable QB that will get you 6 to 8 wins on a solid team. He isn’t going to elevate a bad team, and won’t take an average team to contention. He really isn’t worth the going rate for a QB on a second contract. Our best bet is going to draft and resetting the the contract to the rookie wage scale.

Made a very bad team look competitive. Jones came in and produced about the same number of wins as Eli did, but because Eli had gotten a free pass for many years and all was blamed on the team and the GM, everyone expected Jones to do better with the same (or equally) bad team. Then, there is the coaching quality too.

A better GM, a better HC and coaching staff, and better players has allowed Jones to have better production than Eli did. Acknowledging that the Giants still aren’t a good team but there is hope, Jones should continue to improve and the team will be better in 2023 than it is in 2022, and better in 2024 than it will be in 2023.

Sorry for the optimism.

I also don't think I'm seeing anyone attacking Jones. I have been on the fence about him from day one but have been WANTING him to be our guy as well. I went into the season feeling down about him, then he brought me over to his side, through his play. Recently I have cooled again.

The issue here as I see it is do we feel that DJ is worth investing a shit ton of money in when we have myriad holes on this roster that require immediate attention? At the same time you have Schoen and Dabs and you have to wonder if DJ is the type of player they want at QB for their system. I can't possibly see us investing a ton of valuable money into DJ when his play is often uninspiring and underwhelming. As others have said do we ever see Jones elevating the play of those around him?

In today's NFL to succeed as an NFL QB you have to make plays through the air. More often than not DJ throws check downs and looks to make plays with his legs.

It's a sad, frustrating situation. DJ is good but not great. And honestly not worth the money it would take to retain him. Not when we have so many holes to fill on this roster.

I also just really dislike watching him play QB. So robotic, so unimaginative, so boring.

For example he's equivalent in quality to a guy like Taylor Heineke, but I vastly prefer watching the way that Heinecke plays.

That is just my personal preference as a consumer among QBs in the same tier and not a real point as it relates to team building though.

If Jones isn't the QB for the Giants then who is?

If you go the route of drafting a QB in round 1 this year and have Tyrod as the vet and re-sign Barkley and let Jones walk is the other option. Am I wrong?

Is there another vet somebody wants?

of those questions. I would like him back at a very reasonable price. However, I find it unlikely he re-signs for the $15M I am thinking of. I wouldn't pay $25M-$35M to try to find out what he can do with an improving roster and coaching staff. That's money for an established star.

In comment 15936661 jimvinct said:

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Is he really that much better than Jones? Give the kid a solid core around him and let's see how he looks. I'm not sure a better option is available in the draft or FA anyway.

Yes. He's a better passer. His issue is continual serious injuries where he can never complete a season.

In his last year and his future is still uncertain.


Why wouldn’t there be tons of threads about him?

It's an insanely talented roster. 2 DPoY candidates, excellent at every level on D, best set of skill position players in the league, top level coaching, decent OL (it was great, but is declining).

Aside from QB, it is the best roster in the league.

Like...ok, sure let's build the best roster in the league with studs at almost every position. But maybe we can apply that mentality to the most important position on the field too?

In comment 15936739 Matt M. said:

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of those questions. I would like him back at a very reasonable price. However, I find it unlikely he re-signs for the $15M I am thinking of. I wouldn't pay $25M-$35M to try to find out what he can do with an improving roster and coaching staff. That's money for an established star.

You're right, he's not signing for $15. Any offer he gets is going to be short term under $10 a year. That's the going rate for journeyman replacement level qb's which is what he is. He is more Case Keenum than Tannehill. Tannehill is a much better passer and was in Miami as well.

I don't know about 2024, but I'm guessing the free agent market this winter won't include many outstanding alternatives and our draft placement will leave us out of the QB sweepstakes in the spring. I'm guessing he gets signed to a one- or two-year deal, although who knows what kind.

This will drive people totally fucking bonkers.

Good times.

In comment 15936690 PaulN said:

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Be here next year, that I will guarantee. If he has a short term contract, so what, he is here mow and leading our team, cheer. Remember that, it's what fans do, they cheer.

You guarantee it?

Tell you what, since you're guaranteeing it, if DJ signs elsewhere, you go be a fan of that team and leave BBI behind.

Feels like a win/win.

Hahahaha this thread is funny. I have been on this board for a very long time, I just don’t post a lot. I remember everyone always shitting on Eli all the time on this board. Everyone wanted him to be like his brother and Brady. He was never going to be like that. Now we have Jones that is not like Allen or MaHomes. Newsflash, we have never had a QB like that and we have won Superbowls. Phill was not like Marino or Montana. All I know Jones has improved a lot since the last two years. Give the guy a break, he already had three different coaches in his career. Did Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Peyton, Montana, or Marino have to go through that? Nope! He will never be like any of those, but let’s see what he does with these coaches for another year. If we get a little more improvement out of him and build up more on a draft, let’s see what this kid can do. Seriously is there anything else better out there then him in the draft of freeagency?

In comment 15936754 George said:

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I don't know about 2024, but I'm guessing the free agent market this winter won't include many outstanding alternatives and our draft placement will leave us out of the QB sweepstakes in the spring. I'm guessing he gets signed to a one- or two-year deal, although who knows what kind. This will drive people totally fucking bonkers. Good times.

If DJ is worth keeping, why would he sign a one or two year deal? If the FA QB market is as barren as you say, why would that be his best offer?

What gives is that most of us recognize the DJ decision a the most consequential decision the team will make over the next few years. The only thing in the same ballpark will be if we draft a QB high or pay a lot for one in FA and those happen only if we don't keep DJ.

I am pretty pro DJ, think he is a legit NFL starter, but don't ever expect him to be top 5 and probably not top 10. Given that good QBs last roughly 10 years (it is probably longer) you can expect a top 5 guy to come out once in a blue moon and a top 10 guy a little more frequently. Say 2 to 3 times a decade for a top 5 guy and twice that for a top 10 guy.

I have respect for every opinion from Got have him at most any price (although not Kyler Murray money that is dumb),to only want him is he is cheap (which he won't be). I have no respect for people who insist he is not an NFL starter. They just aren't watching football. Put Jalen Hurts here and Daniel Jones in Philly and the results are not meaningfully different. With Philly's roster DJ would be a superbowl contender.

I often wonder what it is about such an unaccomplished mediocrity that inspires such vociferous, slavish devotion among some here.

It seems shortsighted to think a team can't be good if their quarterback is mediocre. I don't think ANY team prefers a mediocre quarterback. Sometimes you don't get the quarterback first because of circumstances, so you continue to build the other parts of the team until that quarterback is within reason to obtain.

a lot of this goes back to ELi. Many wanted to blame him for the losses. They then have Jones here and the team is just as bad. THere was also a glimmer of hope with Jones as a rookie while grading him on a huge curve because of that. Also there is this hype about "mobile QB" which all seem to stink in my view witht the exception of Josh Allen who really is a rocket arm vertical passing QB first. Lamar hurt again; Jalen hurts and TUa playing with exceptional WRs ; and Kyler Murray just being an overrated Running back.

Jones had some kind of record Jersey sales after his first game. People are just near sighted , give in to immediate gratification and stubborn.

I was not around here for Eli but was it like this when Eli was here? It probably is the same as the Degrom thread. After awhile these people just want something new like they are buying a new set of clothes or something because it is more exciting that wearing the same old thing.

As for Jimmy G. He is a much better QB. I have seen him play very well on nationally tv games this year on SNF. He never threw a stupid pick like ESPN "analysts" predict he will. He threw for like 300 yards and 3 TDs and dominated with a win. When was the last time Jones did that?

The jones crew will start citing the better supporting cast , but look at it another way: What would Jones look like if were playing on the Carolina Panthers?

In comment 15936684 rsjem1979 said:

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Quote: (1) He'll never be good enough to win a Super Bowl? (2) He can't put a team on his shoulders and just win? (3) He has fundamental flaws that can never be fixed? (4) He will always be a mediocrity no matter what? (5) He should have never been taken with the 6th pick? (6) He's holding the team back and they need a clean break from him? (7) He's simply not worth a second contract? (8) All of the above? There's no shame in being a mediocre QB. I'm sure it will serve Daniel Jones well for the next decade as a backup or lower-middle NFL starter for teams that are not Super Bowl contenders. It's hard to find a great QB. That doesn't mean you have to settle for mediocrity and pretend it might one day be great.

A few responses to your remarks:

"There's no shame in being a mediocre QB."
For sure. Middle of the pack probably describes the highest number of starting NFL QBs. Very few starters are truly "elite" and very few are truly "horrible."

"I'm sure it will serve Daniel Jones well for the next decade as a backup or lower-middle NFL starter for teams that are not Super Bowl contenders."
So far, Daniel Jones has been a starting NFL QB and neither you nor I know whether his future will be as a starter or a back-up. But given that there are several current starting QBs who are worse than Daniel Jones, I think it's a pretty good bet he'll be a starter somewhere.

Right now, I would not classify Daniel Jones as "lower-middle" tier. He is probably right about smack in the middle. Lastly, do you really know what level of a team Daniel Jones might play for in the future? Are you certain it would never be a Super Bowl contender? Or is that just an opinion?

"It's hard to find a great QB. That doesn't mean you have to settle for mediocrity and pretend it might one day be great."
I agree with this statement in general, save for one little detail. No one on BBI is saying that Daniel Jones will one day be a "great" QB. I'm sure there are countless threads where posters have said he could be good/very good/solid, or something like that. But a "great QB?" Have you got examples of that?

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is it about this guy that is driving countless BBI threads to near-passionate insanity?

IMO a combination of things:
1. More than anything else we've been bad for a long time.
2. Passionate opinionated fans who fancy themselves 'students of the game' if not downright experts, want answers.
3. There is compelling evidence for and against Jones.
4. People who are dug in have a hard time being open to evidence that contradicts their opinion.
5. Feelings get hurt on the internet and grudges are held.
6. The quarterback is ALWAYS a lightning rod. We've booed hall of fame calibre QBs.

also playing for 6 mil a year / high end back up money.