Problem (reason for some uncertainty): The unfortunate part about pinpointing a more targeted assessment is that up until this year is that he had every thing working against him (bottom tier coaching, blocking and weaponry).
Still, I think we can all agree his current and projected play lies somewhere between 14th and 22nd in the league. In other words, whether you are bullish or bearish on him, you probable realize he is in the neighborhood of average or more specifically, a tough, likable player without elite tools (arm strength, accuracy).
That brings us to the key question: what do we do at the QB position?
Let's say we want to replace him in 2023. The options are extremely limited:
Via FA:
Lamar Jackson will be signed or tagged, so not an option.
Then there is a precipitous drop off to:
Geno Smith, having a terrific season but unlikely he doesn't re-up with Seattle.
A host of subpar starters or primary back-ups with a caliber equal to or lesser than Tyrod Taylor and certainly below Jones.
Via Draft:
Let's kill the idea of CJ Stroud or Bryce Young because they won't fall to us.
Anthony Richardson and Will Levis look the part physically but I am not high on either as far as feel for the position. You could probably include Bo Nix in this group.
One interesting name is Hendon Hooker, who will fall in the draft due to a recent ACL tear and the fact that he is an older prospect.
Would you be inclined to franchise Jones for a year and draft Hooker as the heir apparent?
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
That's some crazy shit right there.
And QBs sign up where they get paid and where they can succeed. Jones won't be crying himself to sleep if he's earning millions in this same system next season with better talent around him simply because the Giants drafted a QB in one of the first 2 rounds. HE will deal with it and do his job.
This happened once though, so I wouldnt say it’s a blueprint, just a possibility. Trading up for Allen was very much, right player right time. And what it took to get Allen isn’t what it will take to get into the top 5 from where we will be picking. We’d need someone we really like besides the top 2 prospects.
1997 new regime--They came in saying all the right things about Brown. They tried. He failed. They moved on a year later rather swiftly. Why? Because Brown was BAD. Not pretty good or pretty bad, simply BAD.
There is no FA upgrade over Jones unless u want to trade for Rodgers. There might be a draft pick but we likely can't move up or get him without dumping a ton of capital to do so. MAybe they can. MAybe they do. But they won't know until April. Jones will be here if I had to bet.
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
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the goal of it was >>
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
Maybe they can get Zach Wilson for cheap.
That's some crazy shit right there.
And QBs sign up where they get paid and where they can succeed. Jones won't be crying himself to sleep if he's earning millions in this same system next season with better talent around him simply because the Giants drafted a QB in one of the first 2 rounds. HE will deal with it and do his job.
It's more likely DJ goes to a team that isn't actively looking for his replacement at the same time. Oh and they'll probably overpay too.
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the goal of it was >>
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
Well, that's unspecific and unhelpful.
and we don't offer that and he goes.Be about 36 months before we get better qb play than what he is offering now. Either way I don't think he's here next year. Schoen should have paid the 20 for next year when he had the chance. Move on if you like, but he's worth 20 for a year whether you get a QB in the draft or not. I'd probably pick a QB, and if he develops he does, if he doesn't he don't. I dont think it would be a first rd and he certainly shouldn't force a pick.
Either way it would have bought a year to figure out who comes next, instead of having to force a pick.
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In comment 15937076 NYG22 said:
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the goal of it was >>
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
Well, that's unspecific and unhelpful.
No, it's a perfectly sensible action plan. Draft a QB in the first 3 rounds. Mostly, they will have higher ceilings with a chance of a lower floor. And you don't have to be a sarcastic douche. You asked for responses. I took the time to answer you. Talk about an agenda.
Sign either Jimmy G/Jones/Geno (who is the best price)
Roll with Tyrod (Cheap option)
Put together some trade to move way up in the draft for Stroud, or someone they are sold on (this is really risky since we have other holes to fill)
Of that list, I think jones is the best. You'd pick the cheapest? Is that really better?
I'm not sure what the likelihood of the Lions cutting Goff is after this season, but if they did that then I'd like to see him picked up by JS as the bridge
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In comment 15937078 Producer said:
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In comment 15937076 NYG22 said:
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the goal of it was >>
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
Well, that's unspecific and unhelpful.
No, it's a perfectly sensible action plan. Draft a QB in the first 3 rounds. Mostly, they will have higher ceilings with a chance of a lower floor. And you don't have to be a sarcastic douche. You asked for responses. I took the time to answer you. Talk about an agenda.
As "Red Right Hand" keeps saying, "WHO?". That's the idea of the thread, to kick around names and specific possibilities.
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In comment 15936838 Joe Beckwith said:
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I think the Giants give DJ a 3 year offer and draft a QB in ‘23 but ore likely ‘24, but he gets a better offer elsewhere.
I don’t think Jones would want to re-sign here, given the current o-line and receiver situation.
You think he will have an option to sign with a solid team as their starter? Let's be honest. There is no team built to win now that is signing Jones as the final piece to the puzzle.
If he is a starter in the NFL next year it is on a team that is rebuilding (and I include the Giants in that).
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Will go with a ‘bridge’ QB until they can draft ‘their guy’.
If the value is right (not likely), the bridge could be Daniel Jones. I think the OP nailed it - likable, hard working, closer to the bottom 10 than the top 10.
I think it’s more likely they sign a ‘bridge’ guy (Trubisky, Dalton, Winston, etc) at lower cost OR they try to trade up in this draft. More likely to me they go for the QB in the ‘24 draft. I think for the money someone will pay DJ, the Giants will get someone else at better value that’s somewhat comparable. The rebuild takes a small step back in year two to leap forward in year three.
I think they just roll with Tyrod then, if the choice is Trubisky/Dalton/Winston.
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Why we didn’t sign on for an option on DJ next year. Thx
right because it was such an easy call to make...cmon dude. We really need to go over this again?
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the goal of it was >>
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
Please name the so called anybody/lower floor you have in mind. I'm open for an upgrade . Can Jones be kept as the transition QB and for how long? I'm not sold on the college QBs that will probably be there for us when we draft. I feel that our QB problem will last several more years no matter which way we go. I hope and pray I'm wrong.
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In comment 15937001 djm said:
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and the Giants will leave the QB door wide open while looking for an upgrade.
i just don't see Jones and his camp being happy with that, unless he's tagged
I don’t see him coming back to this dysfunction unless he’s tagged. If they do extend him a contract, I would take it that the 2022 season was a clear act of sabotage in order to reduce his value and sign him long term.
If they DO extend him a contract, and what you say is true, and he SIGNS it, then maybe there are worse outcomes? If it works out for everyone long term, I can live with the ethics of that, and I'mn not sure you are wrong.
After all, he does have to make up for that 20 million....
If they make the playoff and win a least a game, they FT him.
If they don't make the playoff but he is playing well but SB, WRs, TEs and OL are sucking, they will try to work a Giant friendly 2 year deal.
If they don't make the playoff because he is not making the critical plays, then they will just cut bait.
It going to be as simple as that.
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The options as I see them are:
Sign either Jimmy G/Jones/Geno (who is the best price)
Roll with Tyrod (Cheap option)
Put together some trade to move way up in the draft for Stroud, or someone they are sold on (this is really risky since we have other holes to fill)
Someone with an opinion. Awesome.
Of that list, I think jones is the best. You'd pick the cheapest? Is that really better?
My guess is the team's game plan was to not pick up Daniel's option, the team would suck and they would be able to draft in the top 10. That is not working out and Jones has probably been better than they expected considering the lack of talent.
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In comment 15937091 NYG22 said:
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In comment 15937078 Producer said:
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In comment 15937076 NYG22 said:
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the goal of it was >>
If you do not believe in Jones as the long term guy, what is your exit/replacement plan?
Anybody with a higher ceiling, even if they have a lower floor.
Well, that's unspecific and unhelpful.
No, it's a perfectly sensible action plan. Draft a QB in the first 3 rounds. Mostly, they will have higher ceilings with a chance of a lower floor. And you don't have to be a sarcastic douche. You asked for responses. I took the time to answer you. Talk about an agenda.
As "Red Right Hand" keeps saying, "WHO?". That's the idea of the thread, to kick around names and specific possibilities.
I don't scout the top 8 college QBs for a living. I'll tell you before the combine when I've seen more.
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I think the Giants give DJ a 3 year offer and draft a QB in ‘23 but ore likely ‘24, but he gets a better offer elsewhere.
that's what I think . I think people are gonna be shocked when he gets offerred 3 yrs 115 mil or better
and we don't offer that and he goes.Be about 36 months before we get better qb play than what he is offering now. Either way I don't think he's here next year. Schoen should have paid the 20 for next year when he had the chance. Move on if you like, but he's worth 20 for a year whether you get a QB in the draft or not. I'd probably pick a QB, and if he develops he does, if he doesn't he don't. I dont think it would be a first rd and he certainly shouldn't force a pick.
Either way it would have bought a year to figure out who comes next, instead of having to force a pick.
3yrs/$115 million?...
Is Gettleman back in the NFL next year?...
Any QB who might have a better ceiling than Jones is a better option. WE are squandering years with Daniel Jones.
Any QB who might have a better ceiling than Jones is a better option. WE are squandering years with Daniel Jones.
100%. The people demanding an immediate answer will keep doing that until we're in year 8 with Jones clinging to the hope that 19 points will be enough to win a Wild Card game.
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In comment 15936838 Joe Beckwith said:
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I think the Giants give DJ a 3 year offer and draft a QB in ‘23 but ore likely ‘24, but he gets a better offer elsewhere.
that's what I think . I think people are gonna be shocked when he gets offerred 3 yrs 115 mil or better
and we don't offer that and he goes.Be about 36 months before we get better qb play than what he is offering now. Either way I don't think he's here next year. Schoen should have paid the 20 for next year when he had the chance. Move on if you like, but he's worth 20 for a year whether you get a QB in the draft or not. I'd probably pick a QB, and if he develops he does, if he doesn't he don't. I dont think it would be a first rd and he certainly shouldn't force a pick.
Either way it would have bought a year to figure out who comes next, instead of having to force a pick.
3yrs/$115 million?...
Is Gettleman back in the NFL next year?...
This is right up there with the poster who said he would absolutely give Jones $40M/year.
The Giants did not want Jones back next year at $23M. Somehow, he has done enough this year to tell them to pay him almost double that on a longer term deal.
Another entry in the "Giants fans are absolutely NOT smarter than other teams' fans."
Do you pay for known production or potential? How long will it take to surround Jones with a team capable of fully depicting all of his talent? When can we definitively conclude the time to judge has arrived? If you sign Jones to an expensive contract, doesn't that restrict the ability to surround him with aforementioned talent?
Seems to me if he signs a short term contract on a team friendly deal, that's the best option. I agree with many that there isn't a lot out there and the draft may not be very favorable. Perhaps 2024 is the time to make a Bills like move to get the qb in the draft?
My guess is the team's game plan was to not pick up Daniel's option, the team would suck and they would be able to draft in the top 10. That is not working out and Jones has probably been better than they expected considering the lack of talent.
For the same reason Schoen didn't ask DJ to negotiate an extension during the bye week like he did with Barkley and Love.
You can probably sort out the rest on your own.
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In comment 15937040 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15937001 djm said:
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and the Giants will leave the QB door wide open while looking for an upgrade.
i just don't see Jones and his camp being happy with that, unless he's tagged
I don’t see him coming back to this dysfunction unless he’s tagged. If they do extend him a contract, I would take it that the 2022 season was a clear act of sabotage in order to reduce his value and sign him long term.
Lol right...stop thinking so much.
You think this nitwit thinks at all, let alone "so much"?
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In comment 15937043 giantBCP said:
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In comment 15937040 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15937001 djm said:
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and the Giants will leave the QB door wide open while looking for an upgrade.
i just don't see Jones and his camp being happy with that, unless he's tagged
I don’t see him coming back to this dysfunction unless he’s tagged. If they do extend him a contract, I would take it that the 2022 season was a clear act of sabotage in order to reduce his value and sign him long term.
Lol right...stop thinking so much.
You think this nitwit thinks at all, let alone "so much"?
You take things at face value because you’re simple. Your ad hominem attacks only further that notion.
Development is key, and keep in mind he will be 25. I would only be interested in this by taking him in Day 3 and he's not counted on in year one. So by the time he's doing something meaningful, he's 26-27.
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or Daboll actually hates Jones. Jones will be back next year either with the tag or new contract. I would agree Jones fits someplace into the middle tier of QB's in this league.
My guess is the team's game plan was to not pick up Daniel's option, the team would suck and they would be able to draft in the top 10. That is not working out and Jones has probably been better than they expected considering the lack of talent.
He is not getting tagged. They might as well burn 20 million in the parking lot. They can get the same production from someone else for under 10. I have no idea, other than unrequited love for the player, why anyone thinks he's automatically better than anyone else on the list of potential free agents.
Did we sign Taylor for less than 10 million?
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We can possibly agree that this is the current evaluation, but how on earth do we know how much better he would be?
Look at whats happened to Hurts who is surrounded by 2 WR1, a great tight end, a great running game and a great offensive line. Do you think he benefited? Its made All the difference in the world.
How about what has happened to Rodgers and others?
Hurts improved dramatically between years 1 and 2. They went and traded for Brown because Hurts was showing he was the real deal. Jones has shown that he is a ham and egger replacement level qb.
Enough with this stuff already. You don't run out and spend resources to try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You spend resources when it is apparent when you have top-notch silk that will look even better with some shiny doo-dads.
You are wrong about Hurts. I live in the Philly area and Howie was not convinced he was the guy, nor was anyone in Philly or here on BBI for that matter. They tried to get Desean Watson!
What would he be playing on the Giants? No as good.
Giants are not in a position this year to go after a QB and WR is the bigger need.
Look at whats happened to Hurts who is surrounded by 2 WR1, a great tight end, a great running game and a great offensive line. Do you think he benefited? Its made All the difference in the world.
How about what has happened to Rodgers and others?
I agree with you. Sign him to something reasonable next year and focus on getting some new weapons and in the passing game. They have IOl they like, those guys have just gotten injured. Better receiving talent will also take some pressure off of the IOL.
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We can possibly agree that this is the current evaluation, but how on earth do we know how much better he would be?
Look at whats happened to Hurts who is surrounded by 2 WR1, a great tight end, a great running game and a great offensive line. Do you think he benefited? Its made All the difference in the world.
How about what has happened to Rodgers and others?
I agree with you. Sign him to something reasonable next year and focus on getting some new weapons and in the passing game. They have IOl they like, those guys have just gotten injured. Better receiving talent will also take some pressure off of the IOL.
Year after year we get a giant pile of DJ excuses. He may never emerge from it. Sign him again short-term but keep fixing the other weak moving parts. They are more important than he is.
Very few guys are like Brady/Rodgers/Mahomes and can drive a team to win. Most NFL QB's are just a piece of the offense, managing the game and making sure the mistakes are at a minimum. They are dependent on the players around them. If they have good players the stats look good, if not they look like Russell Wilson
I'd draft a rookie in the 2nd or 3rd, or play Taylor...that would most likely net us Williams or Maye in the 2024 draft.