Andrew Thomas, Evan Neal, Daniel Bellinger, Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, Kayvon Thibodeau, Azzeez Ojulari, Julian Love, Xavier McKinney, Adoree Jackson
Andrew Thomas, Evan Neal, Daniel Bellinger, Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, Kayvon Thibodeau, Azzeez Ojulari, Julian Love, Xavier McKinney, Adoree Jackson
I like it when Thibs gets real sacks instead of make believe pretend sacks.
Lawrence, Williams, Thibs, Ojulari, Love, MCKinney, Jackson, Barkley, Thomas and Jones. It's actually a very very easy list to make. The Giants have ten established good players--Add in up n comers like Neal, Bellinger and maybe McFadden and Robinson (both Wan'dale and Aaron)--sprinkle in gamers like Holmes..that's about it.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
You certainly won't see me not considering the parts around a QB and how much that impacts performance for any QB at any talent level. I am clearly not in the QBGC where you get this "magical" QB and call it a day. Every single QB needs a lot of help the question is how much much more or less.
but Azeez has a full year under his belt and impacted a game this past week that Neal has yet to do yet.
????
10 sacks in 20 games games vs ? Each has missed about a third of potential starts due to injury. Don’t see the basis for Neal over Ojulari. Hopefully both will shake the injury bug and be productive Giants for a long time.
I think we need to raise LW on some of these lists. The defense held there own against Washington until LW got hurt and was unavailable in much of the 2nd half including the late TD drive. The defense has also suffered in other games when he was not available to play.
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Agree. And I know Jones is on there and may or may not be the future but he is right now IMO one of the ten. Hard to leave Gano off but not being an every down player I couldn't include him and Bellinger certainly a consideration .I don't consider him to be top 10 yet. Teams aren't game planning against him but they are Jones and Barkley.!
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
1. Andrew Thomas.
2. Dexter Lawrence
3. Leonard William
4. Adoree Jackson
5. Daniel Jones
6. Julian Love
7. Mckinney
8. Thibodeaux (hopeful)
9. Neal (hopeful)
10. Ojulari (hopeful)
Only a few other players on the roster that I think are worth keeping - Gates, Bellinger, maybe Wan'dale, maybe Ezedu, a couple of IR players. Downgraded Mckinney because of injury. Did not for anybody else, since his was self inflicted. I did not forget about SB. he has hurt the team the last few weeks and am happy to start breida or brightwell to see if they can do something. If nothing else they might get the 3 or 4 yards that are there, rather than dancing for a 1 yard loss. Might have missed someone, but I think that is everyone.
RE: if we swapped out Gano for the ten kickers BELOW him
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
Not winning gets HC's fired. Here is another interesting tidbit in addition to the QB on rookies contracts and how many SB's have been won by them I have posted before.
Outside Cowher, Reid and Dungy I don't think a HC has won a SB who did not do it within his first five years (with that franchise) going back to 1980 and most sooner than 5. Those 3 all won a lot of games to get the chance to stay around and two of them had to go to a second franchise to get another chance.
Winning is very much a big part of what happens at QB. The wrong choice you are most likely picking a new HC and Mara goes from spending more time in his office to stopping in Schoen's. NY has not been a patient market on top of it. We have yet to have a HC start year three who did not make the playoffs in his first two.
I find a lot of "right way thinking" leads to a lot of unemployment.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
Yea i may have exaggerated there but the point stands. There are kickers on the street that could do what Gano does. You swap out Jones, even if he is below avg, with a slob and we're 4-7-1 or worse not 7-4-1. The mere fact that Jones runs the ball elevates him over a kicker.
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
this place all but ignores that Jones is one of the best running QBs in the NFL this season.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
i mean look is Gano a better kicker (prior to this season)
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
And we're talking about the kicker. FOr any kicker to eclipse the QB's value he better be the best in the league and the QB would need to be awful.
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
If you assume ample time to score a TD, I can name a lot more QBs than Jones I would trust to meet that opportunity than Ks I would trust over Gano if I need a FG.
I never underestimate the ability to handle the pressure and execute a successful FG, especially to tie or win a game. Not any K off the street can do that.
this place all but ignores that Jones is one of the best running QBs in the NFL this season.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
The Giants org is almost as dumb, Jones hasn't gotten the green light to scramble until this year.
RE: i mean look is Gano a better kicker (prior to this season)
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
last week that strong fronts and a good kicking game are the foundation of great teams. Seems that most that came off that Parcells tree seem to be in the same ballpark on a lot of things.
Seems that most on that tree had some good outcomes on some last kicks that sealed a nice little trophy at the end in addition to even more big games that helped them get to the really big one.
I didn't have him top 10 but kickers are a critical component.
1. Lawrence (ligit ALL PRO, right now)
2. Barkley (Pro Bowl, when healthy)
3. Thomas (Pro Bowl)
4. Ojulari (ligit Pro Bowl, this year without injury)
5. Thibodeaux (future Pro Bowl)
6. Jackson (top-tier pr)
7. Williams (top-tier pro)
8. McKinney (top-tier pro)
9. Love (top-tier pro)
10. Neal (future Pro Bowl)
1. Thomas- last 2 games haven't been his best, but he's been playing at an all pro level (and only 23 y/o)
2. Dex- one of the most disruptive & dominant DL in the league
3. Saquon- he's come back to earth these past few weeks, but still an elite RB in the league.
4. Leo - overpaid yet still underrated. Leo is a huge difference maker when in the lineup.
5. Adoree- he's really come into his own as a true #1 CB here.
6. DJ - if you're ranking guys based on how they compared relative to peers at their position, DJ would be lower. But I'm placing a higher value on premium positions. DJ's athleticism has also been incredibly important for the Giants this year. While the offense runs through Saquon, using DJ's legs have been the Giants second best option all year.
7. McKinney- the injury was unfortunate, but he had a huge role in the defense. Wink used him as a chess piece- spying players like CMC, blitzing, playing in center field. McKinney is a heck of a player who can be an elite safety in this league- I probably have him lower than I should.
8. Ojulari- it's a shame he missed so many games. He's a difference maker when on the field. 10+ sack guy.
9. Thibs- he's quietly been one of the Giants most consistent defenders. Hasn't had the sack numbers, but has gotten consistent pressure and drawn the attention of the opposing offenses. I think he has 'game-wrecker' potential, and is getting better by the week. He's not quite as polished as Azeez as a pass rusher, but you can argue is a better overall player.
10. Love- one of the most underrated players, not only on the team but in the league. He's a versatile, glue guy for the secondary. Great tackler, solid in coverage, good ball skills, and a heady player whose incredibly valuable to the defense.
HM
1. Neal - He'll probably be on the list soon. You can see the obvious talent, and now it seems like things are starting to click
2. Bellinger- the guy is already a solid starting TE. You can tell they missed having him out there. Reliable receiver, very good blocker. He's gonna be a good one.
3. Slayton- I'm higher on him than most. He makes big plays and wins vertically. I think you can do alot worse than Slayton at WR, although he shouldn't be any teams #1.
Making this list, I'm realizing the Giants have a lot more talent than people give them credit for But casual fans can't see past the fantasy relevant positions (QB and WR) where the Giants are admittedly weaker than most. It seems like the conversation is driven by the QB, RB, WR and TE positions when others are comparing talent levels of teams around the league
RE: RE: i mean look is Gano a better kicker (prior to this season)
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
Gano is 5 for 6 this year at 50+ yards.
Tucker, a stud/HoFer, is 6 for 9 at 50+ yards.
LOL, once again, you use stats disingenuously, and without telling the entire story.
Tucker is 6 for 7 from 50-59 yards - his other two misses were from 60+. Including a 67 yarder (which BTW was on target, and missed by about two feet).
Gano - and probably everyone else in the league - wouldn't even be ASKED to try 60+ yard kicks.
So, try again bw - for an apples to apples comparison:
Gano: 5-6 from 50-59
Tucker: 6-7 from 50-59
RE: RE: RE: i mean look is Gano a better kicker (prior to this season)
LOL, once again, you use stats disingenuously, and without telling the entire story.
Tucker is 6 for 7 from 50-59 yards - his other two misses were from 60+. Including a 67 yarder (which BTW was on target, and missed by about two feet).
Gano - and probably everyone else in the league - wouldn't even be ASKED to try 60+ yard kicks.
So, try again bw - for an apples to apples comparison:
Gano: 5-6 from 50-59
Tucker: 6-7 from 50-59
Ah, missed that piece. I stand corrected.
So, apples to apples, both are about the same% of reliability from 50-59.
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
How does swapping out Gano for "some street guy" not have a negative impact on our W-L? Gano has literally been one of the top 2-3 PKs in the entire league during his time here and has won a number of games for us. For a team that has had to settle for FGs like crazy for the last few years, it's crazy to diminish the value of a guy like Gano, while propping up the QB who is a big factor in why we settled for FGs in the first place.
We don't have ten top players. Best of what we have, who cares?
That's not true at all. We have some holes for sure but there is a core of good players on this team. We just have to keep filling the holes with better players... also building up the bottom of the roster with better depth.
this place all but ignores that Jones is one of the best running QBs in the NFL this season.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
He's still 16th in total yards, 40 yards ahead of Brissett, and barely ahead of Fields and Murray, who have both been injured. Yes, DJs legs are his best weapon, but he's a below average passing QB.
RE: As a combination of how they compare to other teams and value to our
1. Andrew Thomas.
2. Dexter Lawrence
3. Leonard William
4. Adoree Jackson
5. Daniel Jones
6. Julian Love
7. Mckinney
8. Thibodeaux (hopeful)
9. Neal (hopeful)
10. Ojulari (hopeful)
Only a few other players on the roster that I think are worth keeping - Gates, Bellinger, maybe Wan'dale, maybe Ezedu, a couple of IR players. Downgraded Mckinney because of injury. Did not for anybody else, since his was self inflicted. I did not forget about SB. he has hurt the team the last few weeks and am happy to start breida or brightwell to see if they can do something. If nothing else they might get the 3 or 4 yards that are there, rather than dancing for a 1 yard loss. Might have missed someone, but I think that is everyone.
Jones, who is not in the top half of QBs in any major passing stat, is 5th...but Barkley, who's 4th in the NFL in rushing yards, doesn't make the top 10. You are either one of DJs family members, or a total moron.
Saquon has had a few disappointing games, DJ has had a disappointing career.
RE: RE: i mean look is Gano a better kicker (prior to this season)
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
Gano is 5 for 6 this year at 50+ yards.
Tucker, a stud/HoFer, is 6 for 9 at 50+ yards.
That's is a really really faulty use of stats, and I think you probably know that. Because of his range, the Ravens have him attempting FG that are of a distance literally no other kicker would probably try. Two of his misses are 60 plus. On kicks 50 plus he is 6-7.
Does Gano count?
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Obviously the defense is ahead of the offense right now - honorable mention to Bellinger and Wan'Dale, who have showed some promise.
I like it when Thibs gets real sacks instead of make believe pretend sacks.
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Agree with this
He has played at an all star level all year
Thomas, Neal, Bellinger.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
Agree David B with very good thoughts.
I concur with your posts
????
10 sacks in 20 games games vs ? Each has missed about a third of potential starts due to injury. Don’t see the basis for Neal over Ojulari. Hopefully both will shake the injury bug and be productive Giants for a long time.
He has played at an all star level all year
True enough, Gano needs to be on the list
1. Thomas
2. Lawrence
3. Love
4. Barkley
5. Jackson
6. Gano
7. LW
8. McKinney
9. Ojulari
10. Robinson/Neal/Thibs - toss-up
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Kickers score points. And Gano is one of the best in the league. I don't think the K position is as fungible as you think.
Thomas, Neal, Bellinger.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
Quote:
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Kickers score points. And Gano is one of the best in the league. I don't think the K position is as fungible as you think.
He's a "good" kicker...by eye test and every metric. An overrated or even merely average QB holds much more weight.
We're talking about the frickin kicker who just failed to win us a game. I can't take it...
You can literally sign a guy from the street in december and win games on leg 2 days later.
Not as fungible....lol right.
Justin Tucker. BAL. 89.3% 103.0. 8.6.
Jason Myers. SEA. 95.8% 102.0. 8.5.
Daniel Carlson. LV. 89.3% 100.0. 8.3.
Nick Folk. NE. 83.3% 99.0. 8.3.
Younghoe Koo. ATL. 82.1% 96.0. 7.4.
Greg Zuerlein. NYJ. 85.2% 94.0. 7.8.
Brett Maher. DAL. 86.4% 93.0. 7.8.
He's not even top ten in the NFL this year.
But he's a top ten player on the team over the QB who has more rushing yards than most QBs in the game.
If we swapped out Gano for literally any one of the top ten kickers ahead of him, we have the same record, or better.
Stop already.
You can literally sign a guy from the street in december and win games on leg 2 days later.
Not as fungible....lol right.
Yeah the best in the league, and all time, just signed a 4 year/24M contract. Is that the same AAV as Glowinski?
I can take a lot but not this nonsense.
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they are literally the most fungible position in PRO SPORTS!
You can literally sign a guy from the street in december and win games on leg 2 days later.
Not as fungible....lol right.
Yeah the best in the league, and all time, just signed a 4 year/24M contract. Is that the same AAV as Glowinski?
Tucker is probably the only kicker i'd add to a team's top 10 list. He's awesome.
And we'd probably have ONE more win with him. Count em...ONE.
We're talking about the kicker.
1. Andrew Thomas.
2. Dexter Lawrence
3. Leonard William
4. Adoree Jackson
5. Daniel Jones
6. Julian Love
7. Mckinney
8. Thibodeaux (hopeful)
9. Neal (hopeful)
10. Ojulari (hopeful)
Only a few other players on the roster that I think are worth keeping - Gates, Bellinger, maybe Wan'dale, maybe Ezedu, a couple of IR players. Downgraded Mckinney because of injury. Did not for anybody else, since his was self inflicted. I did not forget about SB. he has hurt the team the last few weeks and am happy to start breida or brightwell to see if they can do something. If nothing else they might get the 3 or 4 yards that are there, rather than dancing for a 1 yard loss. Might have missed someone, but I think that is everyone.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
Quote:
Lawrence, Willians, X, Love, Jackson, Thibs, Olujari.
Thomas, Neal, Bellinger.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
Not winning gets HC's fired. Here is another interesting tidbit in addition to the QB on rookies contracts and how many SB's have been won by them I have posted before.
Outside Cowher, Reid and Dungy I don't think a HC has won a SB who did not do it within his first five years (with that franchise) going back to 1980 and most sooner than 5. Those 3 all won a lot of games to get the chance to stay around and two of them had to go to a second franchise to get another chance.
Winning is very much a big part of what happens at QB. The wrong choice you are most likely picking a new HC and Mara goes from spending more time in his office to stopping in Schoen's. NY has not been a patient market on top of it. We have yet to have a HC start year three who did not make the playoffs in his first two.
I find a lot of "right way thinking" leads to a lot of unemployment.
2) Lawrence
3) Jackson
4) Love
5) McKinney
6) Gano
7) Barkley
8) Thomas
9) Ojulauri
10) Thibs
honorable mentions: Neal (based on potential), Wandale (potential)
Quote:
we probably have the same record.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
Yea i may have exaggerated there but the point stands. There are kickers on the street that could do what Gano does. You swap out Jones, even if he is below avg, with a slob and we're 4-7-1 or worse not 7-4-1. The mere fact that Jones runs the ball elevates him over a kicker.
Quote:
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
And we're talking about the kicker. FOr any kicker to eclipse the QB's value he better be the best in the league and the QB would need to be awful.
Quote:
In comment 15937128 djm said:
Quote:
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
If you assume ample time to score a TD, I can name a lot more QBs than Jones I would trust to meet that opportunity than Ks I would trust over Gano if I need a FG.
I never underestimate the ability to handle the pressure and execute a successful FG, especially to tie or win a game. Not any K off the street can do that.
I guess other than the other players on special teams. Gunners, blockers, etc.
Not in my book.
I'd say RB, Safety and FB.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
The Giants org is almost as dumb, Jones hasn't gotten the green light to scramble until this year.
Gano is 5 for 6 this year at 50+ yards.
Tucker, a stud/HoFer, is 6 for 9 at 50+ yards.
Seems that most on that tree had some good outcomes on some last kicks that sealed a nice little trophy at the end in addition to even more big games that helped them get to the really big one.
I didn't have him top 10 but kickers are a critical component.
Barkley
Lawrence
Williams
Jackson
Jones
KT
Ojulari
McKinney
Love
**Gano
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
This would be my answer, as well.
1. Lawrence (ligit ALL PRO, right now)
2. Barkley (Pro Bowl, when healthy)
3. Thomas (Pro Bowl)
4. Ojulari (ligit Pro Bowl, this year without injury)
5. Thibodeaux (future Pro Bowl)
6. Jackson (top-tier pr)
7. Williams (top-tier pro)
8. McKinney (top-tier pro)
9. Love (top-tier pro)
10. Neal (future Pro Bowl)
Yes, if you want to argue a guy like Vinatieri is better because of playoffs, that's fine. But kick for kick, Tucker is the GOAT.
Right now, I'd go
1. Thomas- last 2 games haven't been his best, but he's been playing at an all pro level (and only 23 y/o)
2. Dex- one of the most disruptive & dominant DL in the league
3. Saquon- he's come back to earth these past few weeks, but still an elite RB in the league.
4. Leo - overpaid yet still underrated. Leo is a huge difference maker when in the lineup.
5. Adoree- he's really come into his own as a true #1 CB here.
6. DJ - if you're ranking guys based on how they compared relative to peers at their position, DJ would be lower. But I'm placing a higher value on premium positions. DJ's athleticism has also been incredibly important for the Giants this year. While the offense runs through Saquon, using DJ's legs have been the Giants second best option all year.
7. McKinney- the injury was unfortunate, but he had a huge role in the defense. Wink used him as a chess piece- spying players like CMC, blitzing, playing in center field. McKinney is a heck of a player who can be an elite safety in this league- I probably have him lower than I should.
8. Ojulari- it's a shame he missed so many games. He's a difference maker when on the field. 10+ sack guy.
9. Thibs- he's quietly been one of the Giants most consistent defenders. Hasn't had the sack numbers, but has gotten consistent pressure and drawn the attention of the opposing offenses. I think he has 'game-wrecker' potential, and is getting better by the week. He's not quite as polished as Azeez as a pass rusher, but you can argue is a better overall player.
10. Love- one of the most underrated players, not only on the team but in the league. He's a versatile, glue guy for the secondary. Great tackler, solid in coverage, good ball skills, and a heady player whose incredibly valuable to the defense.
HM
1. Neal - He'll probably be on the list soon. You can see the obvious talent, and now it seems like things are starting to click
2. Bellinger- the guy is already a solid starting TE. You can tell they missed having him out there. Reliable receiver, very good blocker. He's gonna be a good one.
3. Slayton- I'm higher on him than most. He makes big plays and wins vertically. I think you can do alot worse than Slayton at WR, although he shouldn't be any teams #1.
Making this list, I'm realizing the Giants have a lot more talent than people give them credit for But casual fans can't see past the fantasy relevant positions (QB and WR) where the Giants are admittedly weaker than most. It seems like the conversation is driven by the QB, RB, WR and TE positions when others are comparing talent levels of teams around the league
Quote:
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
Gano is 5 for 6 this year at 50+ yards.
Tucker, a stud/HoFer, is 6 for 9 at 50+ yards.
LOL, once again, you use stats disingenuously, and without telling the entire story.
Tucker is 6 for 7 from 50-59 yards - his other two misses were from 60+. Including a 67 yarder (which BTW was on target, and missed by about two feet).
Gano - and probably everyone else in the league - wouldn't even be ASKED to try 60+ yard kicks.
So, try again bw - for an apples to apples comparison:
Gano: 5-6 from 50-59
Tucker: 6-7 from 50-59
LOL, once again, you use stats disingenuously, and without telling the entire story.
Tucker is 6 for 7 from 50-59 yards - his other two misses were from 60+. Including a 67 yarder (which BTW was on target, and missed by about two feet).
Gano - and probably everyone else in the league - wouldn't even be ASKED to try 60+ yard kicks.
So, try again bw - for an apples to apples comparison:
Gano: 5-6 from 50-59
Tucker: 6-7 from 50-59
Ah, missed that piece. I stand corrected.
So, apples to apples, both are about the same% of reliability from 50-59.
Defense: Dex, Leo, Xavier, Love, Jackson. Azeez.
ST: Gano.
I suck at this...it was supposed to be the GIF of John McEnroe yelling at the umpire to....answer my question
lmaoooo
Defense: Dex, Leo, Xavier, Love, Jackson. Azeez.
ST: Gano.
No Thibs eh?
1. Andrew Thomas
2. Saquan Barkley
3. Adore Jackson
4. Thibs
5. Love
6. McKinney
7. Ojulari
8. Lawrence
9. Leo
10. Jones
Quote:
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
That's not true at all. We have some holes for sure but there is a core of good players on this team. We just have to keep filling the holes with better players... also building up the bottom of the roster with better depth.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
He's still 16th in total yards, 40 yards ahead of Brissett, and barely ahead of Fields and Murray, who have both been injured. Yes, DJs legs are his best weapon, but he's a below average passing QB.
1. Andrew Thomas.
2. Dexter Lawrence
3. Leonard William
4. Adoree Jackson
5. Daniel Jones
6. Julian Love
7. Mckinney
8. Thibodeaux (hopeful)
9. Neal (hopeful)
10. Ojulari (hopeful)
Only a few other players on the roster that I think are worth keeping - Gates, Bellinger, maybe Wan'dale, maybe Ezedu, a couple of IR players. Downgraded Mckinney because of injury. Did not for anybody else, since his was self inflicted. I did not forget about SB. he has hurt the team the last few weeks and am happy to start breida or brightwell to see if they can do something. If nothing else they might get the 3 or 4 yards that are there, rather than dancing for a 1 yard loss. Might have missed someone, but I think that is everyone.
Jones, who is not in the top half of QBs in any major passing stat, is 5th...but Barkley, who's 4th in the NFL in rushing yards, doesn't make the top 10. You are either one of DJs family members, or a total moron.
Saquon has had a few disappointing games, DJ has had a disappointing career.
Quote:
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
Gano is 5 for 6 this year at 50+ yards.
Tucker, a stud/HoFer, is 6 for 9 at 50+ yards.
That's is a really really faulty use of stats, and I think you probably know that. Because of his range, the Ravens have him attempting FG that are of a distance literally no other kicker would probably try. Two of his misses are 60 plus. On kicks 50 plus he is 6-7.
You see? You can admit when you're wrong. It's not that hard. LOL