Andrew Thomas, Evan Neal, Daniel Bellinger, Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, Kayvon Thibodeau, Azzeez Ojulari, Julian Love, Xavier McKinney, Adoree Jackson
Andrew Thomas, Evan Neal, Daniel Bellinger, Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, Kayvon Thibodeau, Azzeez Ojulari, Julian Love, Xavier McKinney, Adoree Jackson
I like it when Thibs gets real sacks instead of make believe pretend sacks.
Lawrence, Williams, Thibs, Ojulari, Love, MCKinney, Jackson, Barkley, Thomas and Jones. It's actually a very very easy list to make. The Giants have ten established good players--Add in up n comers like Neal, Bellinger and maybe McFadden and Robinson (both Wan'dale and Aaron)--sprinkle in gamers like Holmes..that's about it.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
You certainly won't see me not considering the parts around a QB and how much that impacts performance for any QB at any talent level. I am clearly not in the QBGC where you get this "magical" QB and call it a day. Every single QB needs a lot of help the question is how much much more or less.
but Azeez has a full year under his belt and impacted a game this past week that Neal has yet to do yet.
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10 sacks in 20 games games vs ? Each has missed about a third of potential starts due to injury. Don’t see the basis for Neal over Ojulari. Hopefully both will shake the injury bug and be productive Giants for a long time.
I think we need to raise LW on some of these lists. The defense held there own against Washington until LW got hurt and was unavailable in much of the 2nd half including the late TD drive. The defense has also suffered in other games when he was not available to play.
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Agree. And I know Jones is on there and may or may not be the future but he is right now IMO one of the ten. Hard to leave Gano off but not being an every down player I couldn't include him and Bellinger certainly a consideration .I don't consider him to be top 10 yet. Teams aren't game planning against him but they are Jones and Barkley.!
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
1. Andrew Thomas.
2. Dexter Lawrence
3. Leonard William
4. Adoree Jackson
5. Daniel Jones
6. Julian Love
7. Mckinney
8. Thibodeaux (hopeful)
9. Neal (hopeful)
10. Ojulari (hopeful)
Only a few other players on the roster that I think are worth keeping - Gates, Bellinger, maybe Wan'dale, maybe Ezedu, a couple of IR players. Downgraded Mckinney because of injury. Did not for anybody else, since his was self inflicted. I did not forget about SB. he has hurt the team the last few weeks and am happy to start breida or brightwell to see if they can do something. If nothing else they might get the 3 or 4 yards that are there, rather than dancing for a 1 yard loss. Might have missed someone, but I think that is everyone.
RE: if we swapped out Gano for the ten kickers BELOW him
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
Not winning gets HC's fired. Here is another interesting tidbit in addition to the QB on rookies contracts and how many SB's have been won by them I have posted before.
Outside Cowher, Reid and Dungy I don't think a HC has won a SB who did not do it within his first five years (with that franchise) going back to 1980 and most sooner than 5. Those 3 all won a lot of games to get the chance to stay around and two of them had to go to a second franchise to get another chance.
Winning is very much a big part of what happens at QB. The wrong choice you are most likely picking a new HC and Mara goes from spending more time in his office to stopping in Schoen's. NY has not been a patient market on top of it. We have yet to have a HC start year three who did not make the playoffs in his first two.
I find a lot of "right way thinking" leads to a lot of unemployment.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
Yea i may have exaggerated there but the point stands. There are kickers on the street that could do what Gano does. You swap out Jones, even if he is below avg, with a slob and we're 4-7-1 or worse not 7-4-1. The mere fact that Jones runs the ball elevates him over a kicker.
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
this place all but ignores that Jones is one of the best running QBs in the NFL this season.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
i mean look is Gano a better kicker (prior to this season)
than Jones is at QB? Prior to 2022? Yes he is. But we're still talking about the most fungible and fickle position in pro sports. NAd this year? Gano aint all that. He had a good start but he's not capable of making a FG over 55 yards. THAT is a problem.
And we're talking about the kicker. FOr any kicker to eclipse the QB's value he better be the best in the league and the QB would need to be awful.
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
If you assume ample time to score a TD, I can name a lot more QBs than Jones I would trust to meet that opportunity than Ks I would trust over Gano if I need a FG.
I never underestimate the ability to handle the pressure and execute a successful FG, especially to tie or win a game. Not any K off the street can do that.
Does Gano count?
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Obviously the defense is ahead of the offense right now - honorable mention to Bellinger and Wan'Dale, who have showed some promise.
I like it when Thibs gets real sacks instead of make believe pretend sacks.
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Agree with this
He has played at an all star level all year
Thomas, Neal, Bellinger.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
Agree David B with very good thoughts.
I concur with your posts
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10 sacks in 20 games games vs ? Each has missed about a third of potential starts due to injury. Don’t see the basis for Neal over Ojulari. Hopefully both will shake the injury bug and be productive Giants for a long time.
He has played at an all star level all year
True enough, Gano needs to be on the list
1. Thomas
2. Lawrence
3. Love
4. Barkley
5. Jackson
6. Gano
7. LW
8. McKinney
9. Ojulari
10. Robinson/Neal/Thibs - toss-up
Defense: Lawrence, Williams, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Love, McKinney, Jackson
Kickers score points. And Gano is one of the best in the league. I don't think the K position is as fungible as you think.
Thomas, Neal, Bellinger.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
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if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Kickers score points. And Gano is one of the best in the league. I don't think the K position is as fungible as you think.
He's a "good" kicker...by eye test and every metric. An overrated or even merely average QB holds much more weight.
We're talking about the frickin kicker who just failed to win us a game. I can't take it...
You can literally sign a guy from the street in december and win games on leg 2 days later.
Not as fungible....lol right.
Justin Tucker. BAL. 89.3% 103.0. 8.6.
Jason Myers. SEA. 95.8% 102.0. 8.5.
Daniel Carlson. LV. 89.3% 100.0. 8.3.
Nick Folk. NE. 83.3% 99.0. 8.3.
Younghoe Koo. ATL. 82.1% 96.0. 7.4.
Greg Zuerlein. NYJ. 85.2% 94.0. 7.8.
Brett Maher. DAL. 86.4% 93.0. 7.8.
He's not even top ten in the NFL this year.
But he's a top ten player on the team over the QB who has more rushing yards than most QBs in the game.
If we swapped out Gano for literally any one of the top ten kickers ahead of him, we have the same record, or better.
Stop already.
You can literally sign a guy from the street in december and win games on leg 2 days later.
Not as fungible....lol right.
Yeah the best in the league, and all time, just signed a 4 year/24M contract. Is that the same AAV as Glowinski?
I can take a lot but not this nonsense.
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they are literally the most fungible position in PRO SPORTS!
You can literally sign a guy from the street in december and win games on leg 2 days later.
Not as fungible....lol right.
Yeah the best in the league, and all time, just signed a 4 year/24M contract. Is that the same AAV as Glowinski?
Tucker is probably the only kicker i'd add to a team's top 10 list. He's awesome.
And we'd probably have ONE more win with him. Count em...ONE.
We're talking about the kicker.
1. Andrew Thomas.
2. Dexter Lawrence
3. Leonard William
4. Adoree Jackson
5. Daniel Jones
6. Julian Love
7. Mckinney
8. Thibodeaux (hopeful)
9. Neal (hopeful)
10. Ojulari (hopeful)
Only a few other players on the roster that I think are worth keeping - Gates, Bellinger, maybe Wan'dale, maybe Ezedu, a couple of IR players. Downgraded Mckinney because of injury. Did not for anybody else, since his was self inflicted. I did not forget about SB. he has hurt the team the last few weeks and am happy to start breida or brightwell to see if they can do something. If nothing else they might get the 3 or 4 yards that are there, rather than dancing for a 1 yard loss. Might have missed someone, but I think that is everyone.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
Quote:
Lawrence, Willians, X, Love, Jackson, Thibs, Olujari.
Thomas, Neal, Bellinger.
This is why I want JS to be looking very hard in the draft but I understand all the consideration about the QB spot and the need to keep winning regardless on top of costs which complicates it.
I think our D can be very special and very soon.
The need to build the team the right way exceeds the need to win next year. Gettleman preferred to chase wins vs build the team and look where it got him and the Giants.
Don't offer contracts to anyone who is not the future of this team. OUtside the OTs and Bellinger, those guys are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball.
Not winning gets HC's fired. Here is another interesting tidbit in addition to the QB on rookies contracts and how many SB's have been won by them I have posted before.
Outside Cowher, Reid and Dungy I don't think a HC has won a SB who did not do it within his first five years (with that franchise) going back to 1980 and most sooner than 5. Those 3 all won a lot of games to get the chance to stay around and two of them had to go to a second franchise to get another chance.
Winning is very much a big part of what happens at QB. The wrong choice you are most likely picking a new HC and Mara goes from spending more time in his office to stopping in Schoen's. NY has not been a patient market on top of it. We have yet to have a HC start year three who did not make the playoffs in his first two.
I find a lot of "right way thinking" leads to a lot of unemployment.
2) Lawrence
3) Jackson
4) Love
5) McKinney
6) Gano
7) Barkley
8) Thomas
9) Ojulauri
10) Thibs
honorable mentions: Neal (based on potential), Wandale (potential)
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we probably have the same record.
I'd say there's a pretty good chance we'd have lost the Panthers game with many other NFL kickers instead of Gano. But your point is fair - the difference between him and many of the kickers in the league is quite small. He stood apart from most of the league his first year here, since then he's been fine, no reason to look elsewhere, but as Winston Wolf might say, let's not start...
Yea i may have exaggerated there but the point stands. There are kickers on the street that could do what Gano does. You swap out Jones, even if he is below avg, with a slob and we're 4-7-1 or worse not 7-4-1. The mere fact that Jones runs the ball elevates him over a kicker.
Quote:
if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
All I see is passing stats and passing TDs. SO much for running the ball I guess, something the Giants do rather well I might add.
Replace Jones with a less mobile QB--similar passing abilities and we aren't playing big games anymore. It's astonishing how disrespected Jones is around here, even if he is slightly below avg. Fucking kicker. Get the fuck out of here.
And we're talking about the kicker. FOr any kicker to eclipse the QB's value he better be the best in the league and the QB would need to be awful.
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In comment 15937128 djm said:
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if you swap out Gano for some street guy we aren't losing any games most likely. If you did the same with Jones we're losing games.
Gano has been a helluva more reliable at his job than Jones. And he's cheaper.
Question - do you trust Jones more to score a TD or Gano to make a FG?
NOT the point at all. And that's a ridiculous question. You could say the same thing about the kicker and Mahomes. It's safer to predict a stupid lousy FG.
It's harder to find the 18th best QB than an average kicker. There's TONS of margin for error if we had to replace Gano. The odds are we'd find a guy just as good. If we had to replace Jones this very minute the season is fucking over. Try and keep up.
If you assume ample time to score a TD, I can name a lot more QBs than Jones I would trust to meet that opportunity than Ks I would trust over Gano if I need a FG.
I never underestimate the ability to handle the pressure and execute a successful FG, especially to tie or win a game. Not any K off the street can do that.
I guess other than the other players on special teams. Gunners, blockers, etc.