Eli Manning one is of the best QB's ever to play for the NYG's. He possessed all the tools needed to be an excellent QB. His ability to ALWAYS be available made him invaluable. Eli deserves every bit of credit for those two Superbowl runs and SBMVP's. Those are his legacy to the Giants organization and to us as fans. It is not debatable that Eli was the NY Giants Franchise QB and the face of the organization.
But Eli was not a great QB in the mold of guys like Aaron Rodgers from a statistical perspective. It's not even close.
Win/Loss: Eli 118-118; Aaron 146-77-1
Comp %: Eli 60.3; Aaron 65.3
Yds/gm: Eli 241.1; Aaron 257.6
TD's: Eli 366; Aaron 471
INT's: Eli 244; Aaron 102
fum lost: Eli 56; Aaron 39
Career QB rtg: Eli 84.1; Aaron 103.8
Playoff gms: Eli 12; Aaron 22
Playoff QB rtg: Eli 87.4; Aaron 100.1
I guess I am posting this because I am hearing too many references comparing Jones to Eli. "Jones will never be Eli", etc. I think we forgot how many bad games Eli had. How he averaged over 1 interception per game over his career. His pathetic 2008 playoff game against Philly with 2 interceptions and a rating of 40.7. His career record of 118-118. For much of his career, Eli was a healthy, but very average QB.
Jones is probably is not going to be Eli. But until Eli won a Superbowl, he was Peyton's less talented brother. And I am pretty sure we don't want to put Eli's and Peyton's stats side by side either or any of the other perceived top QB's of his generation.
Eli Career Stats - (
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Not the greatest QB. But boy did he come though when we needed him.
Absolutely not. But neither is it fair to say Jones could never be Eli. Eli was simply not the guy we seem to blissfully remember throughout the balance of his career from a statistical perspective.
This is decidedly not true for much of his career. His 118-118 record is proof enough of that.
Not the greatest QB. But boy did he come though when we needed him.
Bet Bill Belichick and Tom Brady would disagree with your first sentence.
So, you knew he had the pedigree, and he could spin it better than his brother.
It was worth waiting for him to come around...
actually year 4 (2007) of eli he hadn't yet won a super bowl.
on 11/26/07 he threw 4 ints in the loss vs the vikings
on 12/16/07 he threw 2 ints in the loss to the redskins 22-10
New York still can clinch a playoff berth with a win at Buffalo next weekend. It had better win, because the final regular-season game is at home against New England, which will probably be looking to put the finishing touches on a perfect regular season.
"It's just disappointing with everything on the line and everything that we had, win the game and we're in the playoffs, and in that situation to come out and play as poorly as we did," Manning said.
"It wasn't a day where you wanted to throw the ball a whole lot, but we've got to be able to throw better than we did today," said Manning, whose 34 incompletions were the most since Joe Namath had 36 in a game against Denver in 1967. "We've got to be able to execute better."
https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/271216019 - ( New Window )
Rodgers is a top 10 all time QB.
Eli Manning is a HoF QB with a very unusual career
Daniel Jones is a forgettable mediocrity who will bounce around the league for 10-12 years as a part time starter, part time backup.
So, you knew he had the pedigree, and he could spin it better than his brother.
It was worth waiting for him to come around...
People around here love talking about the supporting cast, they should go have a look at the bums Eli dragged to a Cotton Bowl victory as a senior. Along with wins at Florida, at Auburn, and at Arkansas.
He never won the QuickLane or Independence Bowls though, so Jones will always have that over him.
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Jones has not earned the right to be considered to be anything like Eli Manning
Absolutely not. But neither is it fair to say Jones could never be Eli. Eli was simply not the guy we seem to blissfully remember throughout the balance of his career from a statistical perspective.
Eli threw for 3,500 or more yards 11x in his career, something Jones has never done. He threw for 24 or more TDs in 8 seasons, something Jones has done once.
Yes, Eli typically benefited from a better receiving corps, BUT in 2017, Odell missed 12 games, Eli still threw for 3,500 yards and 19 TDs, AND EVERYONE WANTED HIM RUN OUT OF TOWN! Jones is on pace for 3,000 and 14 (in 17 games no less), and some want to pay him 4/$120.
So I would suggest that it isn’t Eli that many fans look at with blue colored glasses.
No impressive catalog of stats, only his impressions from all the film study he'd done over the years and what he saw in the post season runs. Processing skill and a total absence of fear when faced with a tight window.
The stats provide context for some other argument, but not the one trying to convince me that Eli had more upside in big games against good defenses than most who have played the position.
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In year 4 of Eli Manning's career he had been to the playoffs three times, won a division title, thrown 77 touch downs was a Top 10 passer and he won the super bowl.
actually year 4 (2007) of eli he hadn't yet won a super bowl.
on 11/26/07 he threw 4 ints in the loss vs the vikings
on 12/16/07 he threw 2 ints in the loss to the redskins 22-10
Excellent point.
If DJ wins the Super Bowl this year, he can stay.
The stats the OP presents are hard to ignore. Eli won a playoff game in only two of his 15 seasons. During those runs he was elite, better than Rogers and even Peyton.
But for many of his other seasons he and he Giants were pedestrian, even worse, those are the facts.
You and many others blamed Jerry Reese and the Giants for ruining the second half of his career, sound familiar!
So, you knew he had the pedigree, and he could spin it better than his brother.
It was worth waiting for him to come around...
bw, a question on the High School star rating system(s).
Do they assign these when the players are Juniors in HS? So, like 16/17 year olds?
Why do we care about them after players have completed 3/4 years of college?
...and I distinctly remember 2007 season when most of the fan base wanted TC and Eli gone...right up until they beat Tampa.
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In year 4 of Eli Manning's career he had been to the playoffs three times, won a division title, thrown 77 touch downs was a Top 10 passer and he won the super bowl.
actually year 4 (2007) of eli he hadn't yet won a super bowl.
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Jones has not earned the right to be considered to be anything like Eli Manning
The stats the OP presents are hard to ignore. Eli won a playoff game in only two of his 15 seasons. During those runs he was elite, better than Rogers and even Peyton.
But for many of his other seasons he and he Giants were pedestrian, even worse, those are the facts.
You and many others blamed Jerry Reese and the Giants for ruining the second half of his career, sound familiar!
Starting in 2009, Eli threw for 4,000 yards in 8 of his next 10 seasons. Jones has never come close to that number. The Giants may have been pedestrian, but for most of those years, Eli was anything but.
Eli threw for 3,500 or more yards 11x in his career, something Jones has never done. He threw for 24 or more TDs in 8 seasons, something Jones has done once.
Yes, Eli typically benefited from a better receiving corps, BUT in 2017, Odell missed 12 games, Eli still threw for 3,500 yards and 19 TDs, AND EVERYONE WANTED HIM RUN OUT OF TOWN! Jones is on pace for 3,000 and 14 (in 17 games no less), and some want to pay him 4/$120.
So I would suggest that it isn’t Eli that many fans look at with blue colored glasses.
DJ's yards per game are the about the same as Eli's over his first 4 years. But you have to compare a guy with 3 different coaches to a QB who had stability and a team around him.
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Eli was at least a 4-star recruit and played at his father's alma mater in the SEC, which created a lot of pressure. And he was very successful at Ole Miss.
So, you knew he had the pedigree, and he could spin it better than his brother.
It was worth waiting for him to come around...
People around here love talking about the supporting cast, they should go have a look at the bums Eli dragged to a Cotton Bowl victory as a senior. Along with wins at Florida, at Auburn, and at Arkansas.
Agreed.
Eli also won the Cotton Bowl, the Maxwell Award and, I believe, was third in the Heisman.
It has always bothered me the way the Mannings and Condon manipulated the 2004 draft. But there really wasn't much doubting his ability to throw a football for every route on the route tree.
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In comment 15937355 gidiefor said:
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Jones has not earned the right to be considered to be anything like Eli Manning
Absolutely not. But neither is it fair to say Jones could never be Eli. Eli was simply not the guy we seem to blissfully remember throughout the balance of his career from a statistical perspective.
Eli threw for 3,500 or more yards 11x in his career, something Jones has never done. He threw for 24 or more TDs in 8 seasons, something Jones has done once.
Yes, Eli typically benefited from a better receiving corps, BUT in 2017, Odell missed 12 games, Eli still threw for 3,500 yards and 19 TDs, AND EVERYONE WANTED HIM RUN OUT OF TOWN! Jones is on pace for 3,000 and 14 (in 17 games no less), and some want to pay him 4/$120.
So I would suggest that it isn’t Eli that many fans look at with blue colored glasses.
This! DJ gets way more credit, and excuses made, than Eli ever did.
...but...but...but...OLine, WRs, wind, a top 4 RB in the NFL isn't good enough...and now...his OC is trying to undermine his success.
DJ threw for 24 TDs when he also had about 50 turnovers. Since the turnovers have stopped, he puts up backup QB production. DJ isn't Eli...DJ isn't Alex Smith.
Let’s talk about Eli early on:
1. Where is Jones win that is equal to the win against Denver in 2005 when Eli drove them down the field?
2. When has Jones took the team on his back like Eli did @Philly in 2006 coming back from 24-7 on the road?
Eli showed plenty of signs early. With Eli it was never about stats, it was how he had a knack for stepping up most when it counted the most. Oh and btw, he was the consensus #1 pick.
Now with Jones, it’s all about stats. Yet all the stats are from dink and dunk passes underneath.
If Daniel Jones had all this untapped potential, it would have jumped out on tape and Schoen would have picked up the 5th year option. That’s a no brainer. If Jones had all this potential, Schoen would have made it a priority to lock him to during the bye. Schoen didn’t even engage with him on a contract.
Don’t insult Eli.
We keep projecting Jones as not a superbowl QB. Eli wasn't one until he was. It took Eli 4 years but he didn't do it alone.
Simms was hated by Giant fans until he won a Superbowl.
Some things don't change. Having to follow Eli is not an easy job and Jones may never win here in NY.
I wouldn't count him out that he may get one during his career.
Starting in 2009, Eli threw for 4,000 yards in 8 of his next 10 seasons. Jones has never come close to that number. The Giants may have been pedestrian, but for most of those years, Eli was anything but.
Be honest with the fact that Jones has never been placed in the position to accomplish what Eli did with a decent roster and consistent coaching. And it took Eli 6 years to break 4000.
idea that Eli Manning wasn't a great quarterback in his
prime. He kinda shows how pretending winning doesn't
exist makes you lose sight of things that are important
for winning. Here's what I mean...
PFF has data for "big-time throws" starting in 2009. Between 09-12, Manning ranked 3rd, 5th, 3rd, 1st in "big-time throw" percentage. Was he perfect like Peyton? Nah. But he consistently was among the best and making ridiculous throws. That played out in his big moments.
Eli also had an incredibly good sack rate. No. 1 in pressure-to-sack rate in 2012, 2011 and 2nd in 2010. That's huge. There have been studies that show sacks crush EPA worse than most INTs.
His average depth of target was 5th in 2012, 1st in 2011, 10th in 2010 and 7th in 2009. He graded 90+ by PFF on 20+ throws in all the available years. So you have a QB pushing the ball downfield, making big-time throws and not taking sacks. Is that good?
But pushing the ball downfield isn't going to get you a high completion percentage and those passes will get picked sometimes. That hurts the old QB rating, which people gravitate to like moths to a flame.
Now here's the other one... I know game-winning drives can be a spotty stat. Eli tied Peyton for most game-winning drives in the regular season. In his 8 playoff wins, he had 5 GWD. Does it absolutely mean he was "clutch?" I dunno. But it's good.
Did I mention the Giants were 5th (ahead of Indy) in points scored from
2005-2012?
bw, a question on the High School star rating system(s).
Do they assign these when the players are Juniors in HS? So, like 16/17 year olds?
Why do we care about them after players have completed 3/4 years of college?
...and I distinctly remember 2007 season when most of the fan base wanted TC and Eli gone...right up until they beat Tampa.
Ratings/stars/grades are applied on soon as a player is identified as an interesting prospect. And for any sport.
So, it could be 8th, 9th, 10th grade. These kids get into camps and tournaments very early and word travels fast when skill sets/metrics jump out. (My son was graded as a baseball prospect in the 10th grade...for example.)
Those grades obviously can change over time - due to a variety of reasons - and most people don't give them a lot of credibility until the junior year.
In comment 15937362 JerseyCityJoe said:
Not the greatest QB. But boy did he come though when we needed him.
It was only after they retired has it become sunshine and roses. They won big and enjoy their well earned legend, but to deny that they were shit on regularly is a lie.
It's def a NYG QB tradition. Now is it the same paople that that drag the QB (whoever it may be) over the decades? IDK. I'm sure their is some common thread.
To the OP, Yes eli is remembered as better then he was, treated better now then he was while playing.
"And to the Giants fans, you are definitely unique, but I love you for that."
Let’s talk about Eli early on:
1. Where is Jones win that is equal to the win against Denver in 2005 when Eli drove them down the field?
2. When has Jones took the team on his back like Eli did @Philly in 2006 coming back from 24-7 on the road?
Eli showed plenty of signs early. With Eli it was never about stats, it was how he had a knack for stepping up most when it counted the most. Oh and btw, he was the consensus #1 pick.
Now with Jones, it’s all about stats. Yet all the stats are from dink and dunk passes underneath.
If Daniel Jones had all this untapped potential, it would have jumped out on tape and Schoen would have picked up the 5th year option. That’s a no brainer. If Jones had all this potential, Schoen would have made it a priority to lock him to during the bye. Schoen didn’t even engage with him on a contract.
Don’t insult Eli.
Schoen didn't option Jones and his FA "haul" was Glowinski and Taylor. Yikes.
Regarding Manning vs. Jones. Daniel Jones looks like a good NFL quarterback, while Manning was.
Manning got a ton of grief early in his career because he was the no. 1 overall pick, and replaced a veteran who took the Giants to a Super Bowl.
This was the era of expectations among fans. An era that has long passed.
Let’s talk about Eli early on:
1. Where is Jones win that is equal to the win against Denver in 2005 when Eli drove them down the field?
2. When has Jones took the team on his back like Eli did @Philly in 2006 coming back from 24-7 on the road?
Eli showed plenty of signs early. With Eli it was never about stats, it was how he had a knack for stepping up most when it counted the most. Oh and btw, he was the consensus #1 pick.
Now with Jones, it’s all about stats. Yet all the stats are from dink and dunk passes underneath.
If Daniel Jones had all this untapped potential, it would have jumped out on tape and Schoen would have picked up the 5th year option. That’s a no brainer. If Jones had all this potential, Schoen would have made it a priority to lock him to during the bye. Schoen didn’t even engage with him on a contract.
Don’t insult Eli.
I don't think you have watched the games this year. Jones has been integral to the Giants wins this year. But that said, I think Schoen and Daboll were thinking that they would move in a different direction when that decision had to be made on. And I do not blame them one bit. Only a fool would of thought the season would play out as it has. I am sure they thought they would be in a position to draft a new QB which would of been ideal.
None of this changes that fact that Eli, as much as we love him not was an average QB for most of his career. His 118-118 record is proof enough of that, even if you do not dig into the stats.
Let’s talk about Eli early on:
1. Where is Jones win that is equal to the win against Denver in 2005 when Eli drove them down the field?
2. When has Jones took the team on his back like Eli did @Philly in 2006 coming back from 24-7 on the road?
Eli showed plenty of signs early. With Eli it was never about stats, it was how he had a knack for stepping up most when it counted the most. Oh and btw, he was the consensus #1 pick.
Now with Jones, it’s all about stats. Yet all the stats are from dink and dunk passes underneath.
If Daniel Jones had all this untapped potential, it would have jumped out on tape and Schoen would have picked up the 5th year option. That’s a no brainer. If Jones had all this potential, Schoen would have made it a priority to lock him to during the bye. Schoen didn’t even engage with him on a contract.
Don’t insult Eli.
Best post in this thread!
Yep. It’s gotten nuts with Jones. I’m rooting for Jones, but geez it’s gotten nuts.
This was the era of expectations among fans. An era that has long passed.
There are still expectations, but they are defined differently.
Now, the expectations are surrounding your QB with pro bowl and/or near pro-bowl talent before said QB can properly be judged.
This^^
And put up very good statistics. Hence, he'll be in the HOF one day.
I'm a big supporter of Daniel Jones. But he's not even a franchise QB.
He's can play in the NFL, needs good players around him, and you certainly can win games with him.
Give these stats to Bill Belichick and see what he has to say all about this. But be interesting to hear his thoughts.
I will always understand the perspective of others with speaking to Eli's warts. I saw them as well. What I will never understand is how there still are some people who never understood what resided within this QB that stats will never reflect.
If BB doesn't do it for you I'd encourage you to watch that NFCCG against San Fran. Another little tidbit from Ernie's scouting report on top of the "it factor" he wrote that he "takes the hit. Keeps getting up." He sure did. Ask Rolle.
The greatest tragedy this franchise had the last 40 years was not having a good enough team around him from 2013-17. Not only would his stats be much better I wouldn't be so sure he might have made another great run.
Now for Jones. I think he has had to deal with some horrible circumstances. The chances that fixing these will greatly improve his stats is something that is realistic imv. The "other" stuff extremely questionable for me. Problem is it is rare that stats and that "other" stuff rarely align and you never truly know one way or the other until they do it. With the cost going up on Jones soon I'm very hesitant but he may be the best option factoring in a lot of things. We'll see shortly what JS/BD come up with.
Think about what you're saying. A guy who led (and I mean really led) the team to two SBs and put up stats that puts him the Top 10 of major categories is only average?
Manning was a very good NFL quarterback who was worthy of his draft position.