im told..
outeiroj : 7:31 pm : link : reply
the giants want to structure in a way that its essentially a 3yr guaranteed(ish) deal with 2 team option years at the end.. which is why its being rumored as a 3 or 4 year deal. djs team wants more security in year 4
also told its very very close, but likely wouldnt get reported until next week even if its done now
here's the type of contract i think nyg are looking for
this is 5 years 200m with 100m guaranteed. i think that is about where this will end up.
remember 2 tags = 2 years ~77m so that's where the negotiation starts. in this type of structure jones gets 100m guaranteed $ up front, in return for the team getting 3 extra years of control for 123m (41m per year, but remember they are non-guaranteed, so he only gets that $ if he earns it).
practically speaking this is a guaranteed 2 year deal with options after that. if you absolutely had to get out in year 3 it would be 10m savings vs. 34m dead cap. so as a 3 year deal, the contract is basically 3 years 100m. that's what jones guarantees by signing. and nyg get jones on a pretty safely structured deal that's a good bit cheaper than the kyler murray deal.
the 20m signing bonus
+ 28m guaranteed 2023 salary
+ 30m guaranteed 2024 salary
= 78m in the next 2 years.
which is almost the exact same 2 year amount Jones would get if tagged twice.
this type of structure he gets that amount guaranteed the day he signs instead of waiting the 2 years plus an extra $22m guaranteed on top.
in return the nyg get those last 3 option years (44m/44m/46m) that will only get paid out if he earns them.
structured that way it's possible none of those cap hits are ever among the top 10 in a single season. as of today a 44m salary in 2025 would be 8th highest - but that wont be for long. herbert, burrow, hurts, lamar all probably exceed it on their upcoming extensions and push that cap hit out of the top 10.
Giants, Daniel Jones Reportedly Close to Contract Extension https://www.si.com › nfl › giants › news › giants-daniel...
13 hours ago — Most seem to agree that Jones's next contract will be either a three- or four-year deal with an average-per-year somewhere between $32-$35 ...
this is 5 years 200m with 100m guaranteed. i think that is about where this will end up.
remember 2 tags = 2 years ~77m so that's where the negotiation starts. in this type of structure jones gets 100m guaranteed $ up front, in return for the team getting 3 extra years of control for 123m (41m per year, but remember they are non-guaranteed, so he only gets that $ if he earns it).
practically speaking this is a guaranteed 2 year deal with options after that. if you absolutely had to get out in year 3 it would be 10m savings vs. 34m dead cap. so as a 3 year deal, the contract is basically 3 years 100m. that's what jones guarantees by signing. and nyg get jones on a pretty safely structured deal that's a good bit cheaper than the kyler murray deal.
I do not see the giants giving him a contract with a year 1 $32 million cap number. I think they structure it differently to give more flexability next year.
RE: here's the type of contract i think nyg are looking for
this is 5 years 200m with 100m guaranteed. i think that is about where this will end up.
remember 2 tags = 2 years ~77m so that's where the negotiation starts. in this type of structure jones gets 100m guaranteed $ up front, in return for the team getting 3 extra years of control for 123m (41m per year, but remember they are non-guaranteed, so he only gets that $ if he earns it).
practically speaking this is a guaranteed 2 year deal with options after that. if you absolutely had to get out in year 3 it would be 10m savings vs. 34m dead cap. so as a 3 year deal, the contract is basically 3 years 100m. that's what jones guarantees by signing. and nyg get jones on a pretty safely structured deal that's a good bit cheaper than the kyler murray deal.
expect a contract with a higher signing bonus which allows a lower cap hit in year 1 and possibly year too with a chunk of the guaranteed money coming in year 3 with a considerably larger salary cap. In other words, when the cap hits, even though its a bigger number it will look small in comparison to cap. Dont be shocked if his cap hit next year is sub 20m.
i dont see why they'd artificially lower the number next year
this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
im told..
outeiroj : 7:31 pm : link : reply
the giants want to structure in a way that its essentially a 3yr guaranteed(ish) deal with 2 team option years at the end.. which is why its being rumored as a 3 or 4 year deal. djs team wants more security in year 4
also told its very very close, but likely wouldnt get reported until next week even if its done now
This makes a lot more sense to me. Giants build in escape hatches in case Jones fizzles and they find their own QB via the draft. 4-5 years at $40M per does not compute right now.
RE: RE: i dont see why they'd artificially lower the number next year
this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
How does that contract let them out after two years with the 3rd year $22m salary guaranteed and $4m in amortized bonus. That’s $26m minimum cap hit in year three ($22m salary + $4m amortization) against $14m in savings ($40m - $26m), no? What am I missing.
this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
yes unused space carries over, but nobody kicks money down the line with the intent of creating unused money in the present to pay for it. less money in the future is future flexibility. carry over is not.
they will still have plenty of cap space to maneuver signings even with jones counting the equivalent of the tag (which would be like the 13th or 14th highest QB cap hit next year).
RE: RE: RE: i dont see why they'd artificially lower the number next year
this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
yes unused space carries over, but nobody kicks money down the line with the intent of creating unused money in the present to pay for it. less money in the future is future flexibility. carry over is not.
they will still have plenty of cap space to maneuver signings even with jones counting the equivalent of the tag (which would be like the 13th or 14th highest QB cap hit next year).
Listen, you can choose to have an opinion, and I respect you for dying on that hill, but there are nfl pro's negotiating a contract and im merely providing info, I can gladly keep it all to myself. 10m saved in 2023 allows more freedom next year and that 10 million probably wont mean shit in 2024 when the giants are currently projected to have over 200m in cap space atm. and any space they don't use, will simply carry over
How does that contract let them out after two years with the 3rd year $22m salary guaranteed and $4m in amortized bonus. That’s $26m minimum cap hit in year three ($22m salary + $4m amortization) against $14m in savings ($40m - $26m), no? What am I missing.
the cap hit to keep in that year would be 44m.
the dead money left to be accounted for would be $34m (the 22m guarantee, the 4m amortizion for that year, and the future 8m amortizations which would be accelerated).
so by cutting him they would create $10m of cap room (or more if they chose to june 1 cut him to spread some out). and the following year they'd likely recoup some of that $22m via offset.
it certainly wouldn't be an ideal outcome but functionally any time you can save money by cutting a player it's considered that you can "get out of the deal" even if it carries significant dead money.
the opposite of that is something like the golladay deal this year where cutting him cost more than keeping him so they literally couldnt afford to cut him.
this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
yes unused space carries over, but nobody kicks money down the line with the intent of creating unused money in the present to pay for it. less money in the future is future flexibility. carry over is not.
they will still have plenty of cap space to maneuver signings even with jones counting the equivalent of the tag (which would be like the 13th or 14th highest QB cap hit next year).
Listen, you can choose to have an opinion, and I respect you for dying on that hill, but there are nfl pro's negotiating a contract and im merely providing info, I can gladly keep it all to myself. 10m saved in 2023 allows more freedom next year and that 10 million probably wont mean shit in 2024 when the giants are currently projected to have over 200m in cap space atm. and any space they don't use, will simply carry over
not sure where you feel liked i knocked your info (or what hill im dying on), my first post in the thread was literally speculating on the info you posted, but ok.
that 200m is going to get eaten up faster than inviting andrew thomas (hopefully extended ahead of his 5yo in 2024) and dexter lawrence (he'll either be extended or franchised in 2024) over for dinner. those 2 plus any jones extension are probably going to take up half of it before we see what they do with love, barkley, mckinney (expires in 2024) and anyone else they add or decide to bring back. cb1 adoree jackson and leonard williams expire in 2024 too.
and there's just the upcoming 2023 draft class to replace them cheaply prior to fa. almost all of those guys are captains so i think it's likely a majority of them get extended and the sooner they do that the cheaper it will cost.
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Got to think $35m is a minimum. Might get to $40.
RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
mckinney, love, jackson are all set to hit UFA in 2023/2024. so only the 3 best players in the secondary no big deal.
the 179m free in 2024 is a mirage. literally half if it is likely to go to extensions for Jones, Thomas, Lawrence, barkley.
and if they want any of the other half left over they are going to have some tough decisions on jackson, mckinney, love, leonard williams.
RE: RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Got to think $35m is a minimum. Might get to $40.
We don't need to make the same mistake some of these teams made.
RE: RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Got to think $35m is a minimum. Might get to $40.
40m is what i expect over the deal (5x200m).
i think 40m is the minimum for a qb in his situation to go 5 years (kyler got 46m even though he was farther from UFA when he did so) and 100m guaranteed the other.
structure from there is just the teams strategic preference but that's why i suggested the structure as above based on the info that the nyg want the last 2 years to be options.
"pay as you go" contracts with lower signing bonuses and more guaranteed salaries that hit at specific times have been relatively en vogue the last several years because they are easier to maneuver than big signing bonuses up front that amortize over the full life.
My guess is the agreemt is ~5/200M with ~75M fully guaranteed at signing, with additional guarantees triggered through roster bonuses based on criteria.
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
mckinney, love, jackson are all set to hit UFA in 2023/2024. so only the 3 best players in the secondary no big deal.
the 179m free in 2024 is a mirage. literally half if it is likely to go to extensions for Jones, Thomas, Lawrence, barkley.
and if they want any of the other half left over they are going to have some tough decisions on jackson, mckinney, love, leonard williams.
LW will be a casualty....too many moths to feed and I feel he may be past his prime.
If we sign DJ and Saquon,I can see us franchising LW for 1 year and then sayonara
Any info on the AAV of the deal you’re hearing about.
No, I try not to poke for info thats not offered, however, I was told its a lot less of a negotiation over money vs time, seems like the Giants and Dj's people are on the same page value wise and both sides should come away with feeling good about it.
Also was told straight up that everyone involved is aware DJ does want to be a Giant, and made it known up front that he appreciates a franchise that believed in him since day 1
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
mckinney, love, jackson are all set to hit UFA in 2023/2024. so only the 3 best players in the secondary no big deal.
the 179m free in 2024 is a mirage. literally half if it is likely to go to extensions for Jones, Thomas, Lawrence, barkley.
and if they want any of the other half left over they are going to have some tough decisions on jackson, mckinney, love, leonard williams.
LW will be a casualty....too many moths to feed and I feel he may be past his prime.
If we sign DJ and Saquon,I can see us franchising LW for 1 year and then sayonara
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
My guess is the agreemt is ~5/200M with ~75M fully guaranteed at signing, with additional guarantees triggered through roster bonuses based on criteria.
if i was his agent i think that would be an easy pass. 2 tags the next 2 years are probably more than 75m guaranteed.
he's either got 31m in his pocket now thanks to tag #1, or he gets to hit open market this year.
if the team is tagging you this year and negotiating an extension, what leverage do they have to say "but how do you know we are going to tag you next year?"
i also think it's not super wise for the giants to structure those two years at 53m. thomas and lawrence are likely to be on 22m+ per year extensions by then. thibs and neal (and whoever else they bring back of ojulari, mckinney, etc) will be on 2nd contracts.
imo the biggest potential benefit to extending jones now is the prospect of a contract that doesn't pay him a top 10 QB cap hit in any of the 5 years while giving them some flexibility to pull the rip cord around year 3 if there's an implosion.
artificially lowering his contract for flexibility in 2023 specifically just doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless there's some kind of hopkins or dj moore type move that requires accepting a big cap hit via trade (which there'd still be other ways to accommodate even with jones salaries in a flatter payg structure).
RE: RE: RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
Any info on the AAV of the deal you’re hearing about.
No, I try not to poke for info thats not offered, however, I was told its a lot less of a negotiation over money vs time, seems like the Giants and Dj's people are on the same page value wise and both sides should come away with feeling good about it.
Also was told straight up that everyone involved is aware DJ does want to be a Giant, and made it known up front that he appreciates a franchise that believed in him since day 1
Thanks. Seems like great news. Appreciate the info.
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
I remember Sy saying that LW's game ages well and he should be effect for awhile - Sy correct me if I stated this incorrectly.
LW is very effective alongside Dex and vise versa.
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
Eric is that $22 mill each? Dex has to be $12-15 mill himself and AT will be pushing $20 mill himself, no?
yes each. top IDL by AAV right now are:
Donald 31.6m
Leo 21m
Buckner 21m
Jones 20m
Allen 18m
Dex is going to reset the non-Donald threshold and get more than leo got.
top 5 LTs are even higher.
Trent 23m
Baktiari 23m
tunsil 22m
stanley 19.75
mathews 18.5
but thomas is farther from UFA so hopefully you can get him without setting a new threshold.
Dex is going to get a reasonable offer and if he takes it great, but the Giants know they have the 5th year option as well as the FT to play with. Theres a chance he doesn't get a deal done prior to this year although there will be something on the table
AT has an extra year of team control, and this is the first year he's eligble to even sign an extension, prolly wont happen this offseason unless its after the draft and they feel like they want to because there is no situation where they need to.
RE: If anyone thinks that $32-35 AAV for Jones is high
Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Ive been saying this for MONTHS people thinking he was signing for 20-25 million were DELUSIONAL..
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
That’s surprising about Ojulari. I know he’s been nicked this year but he has talent. Guess they get two more years at a minimum.
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
I remember Sy saying that LW's game ages well and he should be effect for awhile - Sy correct me if I stated this incorrectly.
LW is very effective alongside Dex and vise versa.
taller idl's like williams seem to with with natural power/leverage and 6'5 or taller IDL who can do that at a high level are rarer than you think so the info is pretty sortable to see that most of them do age pretty well. calais campbell has aged very well though at 6'9 he's a real unicorn. richard seymour had a similar body type. cam heyward another. jj watt. all guys who had the versatility to move around different fronts because they were both athletic and powerful enough to hold up at the poa.
the only flag is williams has had 3 injuries pop up over the last 12 months or so, and though he's played through 2 of them you have to hope it's not a sign of things to come. he's partially a victim of his own durability in years prior.
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
That’s surprising about Ojulari. I know he’s been nicked this year but he has talent. Guess they get two more years at a minimum.
he's like Osi right now, good pass rusher, but teams know to run to his side, likely get overpaid by someone if he stays healthy. I've noticed myself during games he loses contain ALOT
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
Going to be hard to really reduce LW's money unless he signs for $15 mill per on his extension.
Adoree Jackson needs an extension too to spread out his bonus $$. Only 27, so he has 2-3 years left. Worth an extension?
he's either got 31m in his pocket now thanks to tag #1, or he gets to hit open market this year.
if the team is tagging you this year and negotiating an extension, what leverage do they have to say "but how do you know we are going to tag you next year?"
i also think it's not super wise for the giants to structure those two years at 53m. thomas and lawrence are likely to be on 22m+ per year extensions by then. thibs and neal (and whoever else they bring back of ojulari, mckinney, etc) will be on 2nd contracts.
1) My view is the Giants dress up 2 tags (~75M), that then can convey into the magical "100M" number if he performs again next year. Pocketing 2 tags worth now is better than one. He could blow a disc or come down to earth in 23.
2) Years 4 & 5 almost certainly never play out in that form. Just window dressing.
letting ojulari walk after his rookie deal seems logical
he didnt fall in the draft for no reason and while he's a good pass rusher he isnt the 2 way edge player KT is (or any of the other great ones). he's yannick ngakwe and that's the type of player you let walk and ideally get a 3rd round comp pick back for.
they can wait on Lawrence and Thomas but it's a risky game.
i think Thomas' 5YO could go up to 17.7m if he makes pro bowl this year (if not it's 14.7m).
the tag for dts last year was 17.4m i think. and mckinney will be a fa the same year so you may want to save the cheaper safety tag for him (especially if there are trust issues).
thomas and lawrence are both at the all pro level that rarely get close to UFA because if they do they get record setting contracts.
the longer you wait on those deals the higher the AAV gets and the more non-prime years around 30 you have to cover.
There was a thread started this morning quoting Boomer, saying the same thing
outeiroj : 7:31 pm : link : reply
the giants want to structure in a way that its essentially a 3yr guaranteed(ish) deal with 2 team option years at the end.. which is why its being rumored as a 3 or 4 year deal. djs team wants more security in year 4
also told its very very close, but likely wouldnt get reported until next week even if its done now
remember 2 tags = 2 years ~77m so that's where the negotiation starts. in this type of structure jones gets 100m guaranteed $ up front, in return for the team getting 3 extra years of control for 123m (41m per year, but remember they are non-guaranteed, so he only gets that $ if he earns it).
practically speaking this is a guaranteed 2 year deal with options after that. if you absolutely had to get out in year 3 it would be 10m savings vs. 34m dead cap. so as a 3 year deal, the contract is basically 3 years 100m. that's what jones guarantees by signing. and nyg get jones on a pretty safely structured deal that's a good bit cheaper than the kyler murray deal.
+ 28m guaranteed 2023 salary
+ 30m guaranteed 2024 salary
= 78m in the next 2 years.
which is almost the exact same 2 year amount Jones would get if tagged twice.
this type of structure he gets that amount guaranteed the day he signs instead of waiting the 2 years plus an extra $22m guaranteed on top.
in return the nyg get those last 3 option years (44m/44m/46m) that will only get paid out if he earns them.
structured that way it's possible none of those cap hits are ever among the top 10 in a single season. as of today a 44m salary in 2025 would be 8th highest - but that wont be for long. herbert, burrow, hurts, lamar all probably exceed it on their upcoming extensions and push that cap hit out of the top 10.
Here's what you can see in the google search:
13 hours ago — Most seem to agree that Jones's next contract will be either a three- or four-year deal with an average-per-year somewhere between $32-$35 ...
Link is below, but page results in a 404 error (likely taken down).
Broken SI.com Link - ( New Window )
remember 2 tags = 2 years ~77m so that's where the negotiation starts. in this type of structure jones gets 100m guaranteed $ up front, in return for the team getting 3 extra years of control for 123m (41m per year, but remember they are non-guaranteed, so he only gets that $ if he earns it).
practically speaking this is a guaranteed 2 year deal with options after that. if you absolutely had to get out in year 3 it would be 10m savings vs. 34m dead cap. so as a 3 year deal, the contract is basically 3 years 100m. that's what jones guarantees by signing. and nyg get jones on a pretty safely structured deal that's a good bit cheaper than the kyler murray deal.
I do not see the giants giving him a contract with a year 1 $32 million cap number. I think they structure it differently to give more flexability next year.
remember 2 tags = 2 years ~77m so that's where the negotiation starts. in this type of structure jones gets 100m guaranteed $ up front, in return for the team getting 3 extra years of control for 123m (41m per year, but remember they are non-guaranteed, so he only gets that $ if he earns it).
practically speaking this is a guaranteed 2 year deal with options after that. if you absolutely had to get out in year 3 it would be 10m savings vs. 34m dead cap. so as a 3 year deal, the contract is basically 3 years 100m. that's what jones guarantees by signing. and nyg get jones on a pretty safely structured deal that's a good bit cheaper than the kyler murray deal.
expect a contract with a higher signing bonus which allows a lower cap hit in year 1 and possibly year too with a chunk of the guaranteed money coming in year 3 with a considerably larger salary cap. In other words, when the cap hits, even though its a bigger number it will look small in comparison to cap. Dont be shocked if his cap hit next year is sub 20m.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
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im told..
outeiroj : 7:31 pm : link : reply
the giants want to structure in a way that its essentially a 3yr guaranteed(ish) deal with 2 team option years at the end.. which is why its being rumored as a 3 or 4 year deal. djs team wants more security in year 4
also told its very very close, but likely wouldnt get reported until next week even if its done now
This makes a lot more sense to me. Giants build in escape hatches in case Jones fizzles and they find their own QB via the draft. 4-5 years at $40M per does not compute right now.
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this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
Thanks for the info outeiroj. Exciting times!
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this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
yes unused space carries over, but nobody kicks money down the line with the intent of creating unused money in the present to pay for it. less money in the future is future flexibility. carry over is not.
they will still have plenty of cap space to maneuver signings even with jones counting the equivalent of the tag (which would be like the 13th or 14th highest QB cap hit next year).
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In comment 15986432 Eric on Li said:
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this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
yes unused space carries over, but nobody kicks money down the line with the intent of creating unused money in the present to pay for it. less money in the future is future flexibility. carry over is not.
they will still have plenty of cap space to maneuver signings even with jones counting the equivalent of the tag (which would be like the 13th or 14th highest QB cap hit next year).
Listen, you can choose to have an opinion, and I respect you for dying on that hill, but there are nfl pro's negotiating a contract and im merely providing info, I can gladly keep it all to myself. 10m saved in 2023 allows more freedom next year and that 10 million probably wont mean shit in 2024 when the giants are currently projected to have over 200m in cap space atm. and any space they don't use, will simply carry over
the cap hit to keep in that year would be 44m.
the dead money left to be accounted for would be $34m (the 22m guarantee, the 4m amortizion for that year, and the future 8m amortizations which would be accelerated).
so by cutting him they would create $10m of cap room (or more if they chose to june 1 cut him to spread some out). and the following year they'd likely recoup some of that $22m via offset.
it certainly wouldn't be an ideal outcome but functionally any time you can save money by cutting a player it's considered that you can "get out of the deal" even if it carries significant dead money.
the opposite of that is something like the golladay deal this year where cutting him cost more than keeping him so they literally couldnt afford to cut him.
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In comment 15986437 outeiroj said:
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In comment 15986432 Eric on Li said:
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this year's FA class is a heaping pile of trash en fuego.
the best use of cap room this year is probably paying out big extensions to whoever they want to retain and flattening out future years.
you do realize that unused cap space carries over. plus it allows the flexability for signing cap cuts from other teams similar to james bradbury for us last year and you never know who ends up getting hurt, needing to be replaced mid season etc. There are def going to be some big name receivers cut along with other positions of need.
yes unused space carries over, but nobody kicks money down the line with the intent of creating unused money in the present to pay for it. less money in the future is future flexibility. carry over is not.
they will still have plenty of cap space to maneuver signings even with jones counting the equivalent of the tag (which would be like the 13th or 14th highest QB cap hit next year).
Listen, you can choose to have an opinion, and I respect you for dying on that hill, but there are nfl pro's negotiating a contract and im merely providing info, I can gladly keep it all to myself. 10m saved in 2023 allows more freedom next year and that 10 million probably wont mean shit in 2024 when the giants are currently projected to have over 200m in cap space atm. and any space they don't use, will simply carry over
not sure where you feel liked i knocked your info (or what hill im dying on), my first post in the thread was literally speculating on the info you posted, but ok.
that 200m is going to get eaten up faster than inviting andrew thomas (hopefully extended ahead of his 5yo in 2024) and dexter lawrence (he'll either be extended or franchised in 2024) over for dinner. those 2 plus any jones extension are probably going to take up half of it before we see what they do with love, barkley, mckinney (expires in 2024) and anyone else they add or decide to bring back. cb1 adoree jackson and leonard williams expire in 2024 too.
and there's just the upcoming 2023 draft class to replace them cheaply prior to fa. almost all of those guys are captains so i think it's likely a majority of them get extended and the sooner they do that the cheaper it will cost.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Got to think $35m is a minimum. Might get to $40.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
mckinney, love, jackson are all set to hit UFA in 2023/2024. so only the 3 best players in the secondary no big deal.
the 179m free in 2024 is a mirage. literally half if it is likely to go to extensions for Jones, Thomas, Lawrence, barkley.
and if they want any of the other half left over they are going to have some tough decisions on jackson, mckinney, love, leonard williams.
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Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Got to think $35m is a minimum. Might get to $40.
We don't need to make the same mistake some of these teams made.
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Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Got to think $35m is a minimum. Might get to $40.
40m is what i expect over the deal (5x200m).
i think 40m is the minimum for a qb in his situation to go 5 years (kyler got 46m even though he was farther from UFA when he did so) and 100m guaranteed the other.
structure from there is just the teams strategic preference but that's why i suggested the structure as above based on the info that the nyg want the last 2 years to be options.
"pay as you go" contracts with lower signing bonuses and more guaranteed salaries that hit at specific times have been relatively en vogue the last several years because they are easier to maneuver than big signing bonuses up front that amortize over the full life.
2023: 10M salary (full g), 8M signing bonus = 18M
2024: 15M salary (full g),10M roster bonus (full g), 8M signing bonus = 33M
2025: 20M salary, 15M roster bonus, 8M signing bonus = 43M
2026: 30M salary, 15M roster bonus, 8M signing bonus = 53M
2027: 30M, 15M roster bonus, 8M signing bonus = 53M
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
Eric is that $22 mill each? Dex has to be $12-15 mill himself and AT will be pushing $20 mill himself, no?
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Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
mckinney, love, jackson are all set to hit UFA in 2023/2024. so only the 3 best players in the secondary no big deal.
the 179m free in 2024 is a mirage. literally half if it is likely to go to extensions for Jones, Thomas, Lawrence, barkley.
and if they want any of the other half left over they are going to have some tough decisions on jackson, mckinney, love, leonard williams.
LW will be a casualty....too many moths to feed and I feel he may be past his prime.
If we sign DJ and Saquon,I can see us franchising LW for 1 year and then sayonara
No, I try not to poke for info thats not offered, however, I was told its a lot less of a negotiation over money vs time, seems like the Giants and Dj's people are on the same page value wise and both sides should come away with feeling good about it.
Also was told straight up that everyone involved is aware DJ does want to be a Giant, and made it known up front that he appreciates a franchise that believed in him since day 1
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In comment 15986511 Jay on the Island said:
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Take a look a look at the current QB's who have a higher or similar AAV.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
mckinney, love, jackson are all set to hit UFA in 2023/2024. so only the 3 best players in the secondary no big deal.
the 179m free in 2024 is a mirage. literally half if it is likely to go to extensions for Jones, Thomas, Lawrence, barkley.
and if they want any of the other half left over they are going to have some tough decisions on jackson, mckinney, love, leonard williams.
LW will be a casualty....too many moths to feed and I feel he may be past his prime.
If we sign DJ and Saquon,I can see us franchising LW for 1 year and then sayonara
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
2023: 10M salary (full g), 8M signing bonus = 18M
2024: 15M salary (full g),10M roster bonus (full g), 8M signing bonus = 33M
2025: 20M salary, 15M roster bonus, 8M signing bonus = 43M
2026: 30M salary, 15M roster bonus, 8M signing bonus = 53M
2027: 30M, 15M roster bonus, 8M signing bonus = 53M
if i was his agent i think that would be an easy pass. 2 tags the next 2 years are probably more than 75m guaranteed.
he's either got 31m in his pocket now thanks to tag #1, or he gets to hit open market this year.
if the team is tagging you this year and negotiating an extension, what leverage do they have to say "but how do you know we are going to tag you next year?"
i also think it's not super wise for the giants to structure those two years at 53m. thomas and lawrence are likely to be on 22m+ per year extensions by then. thibs and neal (and whoever else they bring back of ojulari, mckinney, etc) will be on 2nd contracts.
imo the biggest potential benefit to extending jones now is the prospect of a contract that doesn't pay him a top 10 QB cap hit in any of the 5 years while giving them some flexibility to pull the rip cord around year 3 if there's an implosion.
artificially lowering his contract for flexibility in 2023 specifically just doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless there's some kind of hopkins or dj moore type move that requires accepting a big cap hit via trade (which there'd still be other ways to accommodate even with jones salaries in a flatter payg structure).
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dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
Eric is that $22 mill each? Dex has to be $12-15 mill himself and AT will be pushing $20 mill himself, no?
yes each. top IDL by AAV right now are:
Donald 31.6m
Leo 21m
Buckner 21m
Jones 20m
Allen 18m
Dex is going to reset the non-Donald threshold and get more than leo got.
top 5 LTs are even higher.
Trent 23m
Baktiari 23m
tunsil 22m
stanley 19.75
mathews 18.5
but thomas is farther from UFA so hopefully you can get him without setting a new threshold.
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Any info on the AAV of the deal you’re hearing about.
No, I try not to poke for info thats not offered, however, I was told its a lot less of a negotiation over money vs time, seems like the Giants and Dj's people are on the same page value wise and both sides should come away with feeling good about it.
Also was told straight up that everyone involved is aware DJ does want to be a Giant, and made it known up front that he appreciates a franchise that believed in him since day 1
Thanks. Seems like great news. Appreciate the info.
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
I remember Sy saying that LW's game ages well and he should be effect for awhile - Sy correct me if I stated this incorrectly.
LW is very effective alongside Dex and vise versa.
There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
yes each. top IDL by AAV right now are:
Donald 31.6m
Leo 21m
Buckner 21m
Jones 20m
Allen 18m
Dex is going to reset the non-Donald threshold and get more than leo got.
top 5 LTs are even higher.
Trent 23m
Baktiari 23m
tunsil 22m
stanley 19.75
mathews 18.5
but thomas is farther from UFA so hopefully you can get him without setting a new threshold.
Locking up a lot of cash...but those are great players.
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In comment 15986529 Eric on Li said:
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dex and thomas extensions probably going to be 22m+ AAV too.
Eric is that $22 mill each? Dex has to be $12-15 mill himself and AT will be pushing $20 mill himself, no?
yes each. top IDL by AAV right now are:
Donald 31.6m
Leo 21m
Buckner 21m
Jones 20m
Allen 18m
Dex is going to reset the non-Donald threshold and get more than leo got.
top 5 LTs are even higher.
Trent 23m
Baktiari 23m
tunsil 22m
stanley 19.75
mathews 18.5
but thomas is farther from UFA so hopefully you can get him without setting a new threshold.
Dex is going to get a reasonable offer and if he takes it great, but the Giants know they have the 5th year option as well as the FT to play with. Theres a chance he doesn't get a deal done prior to this year although there will be something on the table
AT has an extra year of team control, and this is the first year he's eligble to even sign an extension, prolly wont happen this offseason unless its after the draft and they feel like they want to because there is no situation where they need to.
Aaron Rodgers $50 million AAV
Russell Wilson $49 million AAV
Kyler Murray $46.1 million AAV
Deshaun Watson $46 million AAV
Patrick Mahomes $45 million AAV
Josh Allen $43 million AAV
Derek Carr $40.4 million AAV
Dak Prescott $40 million AAV
Matthew Stafford $40 million AAV
Kirk Cousins $35 million AAV
Jared Goff $33.5 million AAV
Carson Wentz $32 million AAV
Ive been saying this for MONTHS people thinking he was signing for 20-25 million were DELUSIONAL..
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There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
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In comment 15986575 outeiroj said:
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There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
That’s surprising about Ojulari. I know he’s been nicked this year but he has talent. Guess they get two more years at a minimum.
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There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
I remember Sy saying that LW's game ages well and he should be effect for awhile - Sy correct me if I stated this incorrectly.
LW is very effective alongside Dex and vise versa.
taller idl's like williams seem to with with natural power/leverage and 6'5 or taller IDL who can do that at a high level are rarer than you think so the info is pretty sortable to see that most of them do age pretty well. calais campbell has aged very well though at 6'9 he's a real unicorn. richard seymour had a similar body type. cam heyward another. jj watt. all guys who had the versatility to move around different fronts because they were both athletic and powerful enough to hold up at the poa.
the only flag is williams has had 3 injuries pop up over the last 12 months or so, and though he's played through 2 of them you have to hope it's not a sign of things to come. he's partially a victim of his own durability in years prior.
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In comment 15986586 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15986575 outeiroj said:
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There have been discussions with LW about an extension that would lower the cap hit and keep him on the giants longer
that would make a lot of sense. he's unlikely to get another big UFA contract in 2024 and the nyg have to adjust his contract somehow and his 32m cap hit gives them a lot of room to bring it down by dividing money over future years.
would eat into a chunk of 2024 cap room though.
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
That’s surprising about Ojulari. I know he’s been nicked this year but he has talent. Guess they get two more years at a minimum.
he's like Osi right now, good pass rusher, but teams know to run to his side, likely get overpaid by someone if he stays healthy. I've noticed myself during games he loses contain ALOT
let me rephrase, giants want him back for additional years so if they were to add 2 years to his contract it could be a win for both sides as long as the additional 2 years are reasonable. Wink wants leo and dex & kt together. Look for an additonal ER and CB in free agency, AO likely not a part of future plans
Going to be hard to really reduce LW's money unless he signs for $15 mill per on his extension.
Adoree Jackson needs an extension too to spread out his bonus $$. Only 27, so he has 2-3 years left. Worth an extension?
if the team is tagging you this year and negotiating an extension, what leverage do they have to say "but how do you know we are going to tag you next year?"
i also think it's not super wise for the giants to structure those two years at 53m. thomas and lawrence are likely to be on 22m+ per year extensions by then. thibs and neal (and whoever else they bring back of ojulari, mckinney, etc) will be on 2nd contracts.
1) My view is the Giants dress up 2 tags (~75M), that then can convey into the magical "100M" number if he performs again next year. Pocketing 2 tags worth now is better than one. He could blow a disc or come down to earth in 23.
2) Years 4 & 5 almost certainly never play out in that form. Just window dressing.
they can wait on Lawrence and Thomas but it's a risky game.
i think Thomas' 5YO could go up to 17.7m if he makes pro bowl this year (if not it's 14.7m).
the tag for dts last year was 17.4m i think. and mckinney will be a fa the same year so you may want to save the cheaper safety tag for him (especially if there are trust issues).
thomas and lawrence are both at the all pro level that rarely get close to UFA because if they do they get record setting contracts.
the longer you wait on those deals the higher the AAV gets and the more non-prime years around 30 you have to cover.