I don't want to get into an enormous argument. Most of you know where I stand on Jones. I don't think he's the long term answer. What Daboll and Schoen think, I have no idea. This post isn't about that. This is about numbers that help clarify Jones' game. And how he should be used in a playoff run. The summary is Jones overwhelmingly relies on the short pass. It is a clear feature of his game. There is no indication whatsoeever he is able to sustain a volume downfield passing attack, so it would be foolish to think he can lead a deep playoff run doing something he hasn't demonstrated he can do. He has beeen excellent against the blitz. If teams decide to blitz him, he can give them fits. But to win he needs to run, run, run.
The Giants have gained 20 yards on just 28 passes, the fewest in the NFL by a wide margin.
Jones has attempted throws of 20 yards down field on only 4.9% of dropbacks, the 2nd lowest rate in the league, ahead of only Matt Ryan.
Instead, Jones overwhelmingly throws the ball short. He ranks 5th in the NFL in dropbacks that result in a pass play of 0-9 yards, throwing those passes 48.7% of the time.
Along with ranking 31st in deep passing frequency, he ranks 16th in intermediate passing frequency (btwn 10-19 yards). And he ranks 13th in passing frequency behind the line of scrimmage.
When throwing between 10-19 yards downfield Jones has registered 1 big time throw to 10 turnover-worthy plays. Jones' turnover worthy play percentage of 9.8% in this zone is second highest in the league. On all other throws his turnover worthy play percentage sits right over 1%. I am a little surprised by this turnover-worthy play number in the intermediate zone, and not sure how to account for it. The lack of big time throws is consistent with PFF's observation earlier in the season that Jones lags in that department.
Stats show he is better vs the blitz. He's 7th among starters in EPA/play when blitzed.
Again, Jones has proven he can be effective running the ball and keeping the passes short. Period end of story. The rest of his passing numbers are banal. I expect more of the same vs. Minny and beyond. The Giants will try to run with Jones and Barkley and keep it close to the vest otherwise. Can defenses neutralize Jones' running and reliance on short passing? It's a good question. It's playoff football so we might see defenses make a concerted effort to take away what Jones does well. If they decide to blitz, though, they are playing into Jones' hands.
Play action is a big part....so i assume keeping Barkley is also in the works.
It doesn't matter what we think.
I won't predict that Jones will start airing it out downfield, but as Daboll said, it's a new season. I wouldn't be surprised at anything the Giants do.
But yes, jones is going to need to make plays with his legs. Same with Barkley. As they go, nyg goes. The giants know how their bread is buttered right now.
Sills, Marcus Johnson, and Golladay combined for something like 800 snaps in the first half of the year.
david sills had 1 20+ yard catch in 270 snaps. 65% catch rate.
golladay had 1 on the year in 260 snaps (with webb). 35% catch rate.
johnson had 0 on the year in 300 snaps. 40% catch rate.
(plus shepard had 1 in 165 snaps with a 54% catch rate.
In the last 4-5 games since Hodgins, Slayton, and James all settled into their roles and started catching 70-80% of their targets the offense has obviously performed better downfield (minnesota game obviously included).
Isaiah Hodgins had 4 receptions 20+ yards and 4 tds in 400 snaps all second half.
Richie James had 4 receptions 20+ since the bye week in 300 snaps along with all 4 of his tds coming second half (he really only became a full time starter in the 2nd wsh game).
Slayton's production was highest in the middle of the season so he kind of bridges both sides. he got inserted week 5 and ended up with 12 receptions 20+ yards (and 3 40+) on 700 snaps in the 12 games that followed.
i think the key thing is that as starters in the last month, hodgins, slayton, and james have each averaged roughly 1x 20 yard play per game. all 3 had at least 1 play 29 yards+ against minnesota.
this type of game just wasn't possible earlier in the year with guys like sills, golladay, and johnson barely or unable to even catch 50% of the targets they got.
and if we want to void the minnesota game bc they have a bad pass d, ok, then does the colts game count? once again 3 guys with chunk plays 19+.
and if you also want to void the colts game, the first philly game james had a 19 and slayton had a 37. in the first commanders game slayton had a 55 and i think that's when he dropped the other big one downfield at the end of the game.
so it's been an upward trend since this trio started taking the majority of the snaps.
And that’s saying something.
Sucks that I’m feeding the troll as well.
if we accept as a proxy simply that slayton, james, hodgins combined are good for 2x 20+ yard players per game as starters, and then they had started every game this year, that 28 goes up to 35 before factoring in barkley (he had 2), bellinger (he had 2), cager (he had 1), myrick (he had 1), hudson (he had 2) and anyone else who may have come in.
so that trio projected at WR plus the actuals for TEs/RBs = 43
that is a +65% improvement thanks to slayton, hodgins, james.
While enduring
The fifth most pressures
He also has
The HIGHEST percentage of on target passes
And
The LOWEST percentage of bad throws
I believe in Daniel and I have trust in Brian.
Link - ( New Window )
and OP is certainly a tool.
+ worst in passing first downs allowed
+ second worst in yards per game allowed
+ second worst in allowed YAC
+ third worst in AY/A & NY/A
+ third worst in total air yards on completions
+ fourth in completions allowed
+ and they aren't good in pressures, sacks, knockdowns
So, there going to be opportunities to move the ball in the air. And comfortably.
And if SB can get going in the run game, there are going to be chances to exploit the play-action game.
Bottom line: I expect the NYG and Jones to move the ball effectively against this soft pass defense. Hopefully, we can convert in the redzone with TDs over FGs.
This exactly! It’s silly to put all of those stats up to try and vilify Jones without taking into consideration how effectively the pass blocking is and the mostly us drafted receivers he has been throwing to. You can’t try and support your silly assertions with statistics and then ignore the rest of the circumstances.
This season has been awesome and I feel bad that you were not able to truly enjoy it. If by some miraculous reason the Giants win the Superbowl would you have any interest in narrating America’s Game? I would throughly enjoy it.
This team is going to take what the defense gives them. Plain and Simple. This offense is still evolving and just recently started to open it up more in the passing game now that they have some consistency and trust.
The giants are going to control the ball
Keep the defense fresh
They are going to use Saquan keeping teams honest
They are going to use short passing game as an extension of the run while the box is crowded
They are going to let DJ use his legs to obtain less risky first downs and open up the field when the defense respects his legs
Then they are going to occasionally stretch the field when it makes sense.
It’s not rocket science, they have been working and developing all year. Working out the kinks through each game and perfecting each option of attack through the course of the year, planning and preparing for this moment in time. This is Dabes process. Open the next chapter of the playbook as the season unfolds. These are not just a bunch of random players who just figured out how to perform at career bests all at the same time.
On defense? Logic says they’ve got a banged up OL vs our healthy and ascending DL, so we should absolutely rush 4 and focus on clamping down a very dangerous JJ. But who the F knows with Wink. We’ll still blitz the shit out of them and leave JJ in single man.
Sills, Marcus Johnson, and Golladay combined for something like 800 snaps in the first half of the year.
david sills had 1 20+ yard catch in 270 snaps. 65% catch rate.
golladay had 1 on the year in 260 snaps (with webb). 35% catch rate.
johnson had 0 on the year in 300 snaps. 40% catch rate.
(plus shepard had 1 in 165 snaps with a 54% catch rate.
In the last 4-5 games since Hodgins, Slayton, and James all settled into their roles and started catching 70-80% of their targets the offense has obviously performed better downfield (minnesota game obviously included).
Isaiah Hodgins had 4 receptions 20+ yards and 4 tds in 400 snaps all second half.
Richie James had 4 receptions 20+ since the bye week in 300 snaps along with all 4 of his tds coming second half (he really only became a full time starter in the 2nd wsh game).
Slayton's production was highest in the middle of the season so he kind of bridges both sides. he got inserted week 5 and ended up with 12 receptions 20+ yards (and 3 40+) on 700 snaps in the 12 games that followed.
i think the key thing is that as starters in the last month, hodgins, slayton, and james have each averaged roughly 1x 20 yard play per game. all 3 had at least 1 play 29 yards+ against minnesota.
this type of game just wasn't possible earlier in the year with guys like sills, golladay, and johnson barely or unable to even catch 50% of the targets they got.
and if we want to void the minnesota game bc they have a bad pass d, ok, then does the colts game count? once again 3 guys with chunk plays 19+.
and if you also want to void the colts game, the first philly game james had a 19 and slayton had a 37. in the first commanders game slayton had a 55 and i think that's when he dropped the other big one downfield at the end of the game.
so it's been an upward trend since this trio started taking the majority of the snaps.
I do accept your reasoning that with more stability Jones' downfield production has gotten better. Is it a category shift or just an improvement on what is a limited ability that has been demonstrated so far. I would say the latter. Jones would have to really open it up to change the perception that he can't win with a downfield passing attack.
You can engage in histrionics all you want rather than engaging in the reality that Jones is limited when it comes to downfield passing. I do say his running, short passing and blitz reading are very good and keys to excelling. Why have you chosen to fight over the parts of his game that are lacking?
He has for the most part correct his fumbling and staring down receivers. And finally his offensive line is finally not a complete disaster. And without a single great WR threat.
So rather than accept data that clearly says he, so far, has not demonstrated the ability to excel in downfield passing, you choose to deny any reality of the data whatsoever. Nobody is claiming it is tennis, but to counter with the idea that stats which measure his performance are irrelevant and have no basis in how he plays the game, and point to his possible limitations, seems random. Is this how you discuss the production stats of other QBs. I'm going to guess no. You just make exceptions for Jones.
I think they have opened up a little more. Certainly vs Indy which was probably Jones' best game as a pro.
Jones at QB this season and the Giants are 9-7-1 while playing in the toughest division in football (yes that is correct). He threw for 334 yards just 2 weeks ago against the Vikings. Why, because the offense was adjusted to let him throw it 42 times (completing 30 for 71%). We should/could have won. This is all that matters, not some cherry picked anti-Jones stats.
We made the playoffs. Yay. I am happy for that. Jones hasn't shown he can lead a true downfield attack. I've given numbers. Do you have analysis to counter, or are you just going to hurl insults? When you engage in ad hominem it means you have no case to make.
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The Giants have gained 20 yards on just 28 passes, the fewest in the NFL by a wide margin.
if we accept as a proxy simply that slayton, james, hodgins combined are good for 2x 20+ yard players per game as starters, and then they had started every game this year, that 28 goes up to 35 before factoring in barkley (he had 2), bellinger (he had 2), cager (he had 1), myrick (he had 1), hudson (he had 2) and anyone else who may have come in.
so that trio projected at WR plus the actuals for TEs/RBs = 43
that is a +65% improvement thanks to slayton, hodgins, james.
Nice job Eric, blinding him with science.
It's pretty obvious the passing game has improved lately. Part of it, imo has been the play calling. I think Kafka and Daboll knew they had to pass more on first down and more in general, if they were going to take the next step and Hodgins, James and Slayton have done a pretty decent job (especially for bottom of the roster type guys).
An offseason addition of a couple higher end WRs, continued improvement of OL and a 2nd yr in the system will help Jones and the O take another step up. It's the most logical expectation. It's why JS and Daboll seem to be looking at a multi year deal. You have to have a negative bias to think otherwise.
While enduring
The fifth most pressures
He also has
The HIGHEST percentage of on target passes
And
The LOWEST percentage of bad throws
I believe in Daniel and I have trust in Brian. Link - ( New Window )
I think you could strap this guy down Clockwork Orange style and feed him facts and it wouldn't matter. I wonder what he's going to say this time next year when Jones has a crapload more passing yards and TDs.
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the president of the Fuck Daniel Jones coalition. You’re embarrassing yourself dude.
We made the playoffs. Yay. I am happy for that. Jones hasn't shown he can lead a true downfield attack. I've given numbers. Do you have an analysis to counter, or are you just going to hurl insults? When you engage in ad hominem it means you have no case to make.
I have a great idea. Jones can throw the ball downfield and then run out there to catch it.
It's a fucking team game, for christ's sake.
And, in that regard, I recall that there was a time, early last year if memory serves, that Jones had one of the league's highest percentages of completions over 20 yards.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now. When Jones brings a championship to NY you're going to feel like an utter fool.
these are not cherry-picked. This is what he is for better or worse, at least for now.
Unlikely. Plenty of QBs who face intense pressure eventually get to throwing downfield.
"Daniel Jones is the best quarterback in the NFL at throwing the deep ball, per data released recently (in 2021) by Next Gen Stats."
Jones downfield accuracy - ( New Window )
"Daniel Jones is the best quarterback in the NFL at throwing the deep ball, per data released recently (in 2021) by Next Gen Stats." Jones downfield accuracy - ( New Window )
ok.. THAT's a cherry picked stat. And plenty noisy. Based on 39 total throws (tiny sample size). And noisy (Jones finished near the bottom in 2022, the very definition of a dumb stat. But BBI keeps rolling it out and calling him the best deep passer in the league.
Jones had two good games passing the ball against the Vikings and Colts. I probably focus run early on but pivot to play action and passing more by the second or third drive if the run game isn't working.
Eric made some good posts.
And when the coaching staff believes this team is ready to incorporate the long ball into the offense Daniel will dispel yet another of the myths harped on by his critics
They keep moving the goalposts and he keeps proving them wrong
I bet some of the rash of recent chunk plays are YAC. I don't think Jones has really opened it more.
Jones’s intended air yards haven’t gone over 7 YPA since the loss to Detroit, where they were down early and taking more shots.
During the 2-2-1 stretch that got the Giants into the playoffs he was: 6.6, 6, 6.2, 3.8, 6.4, 6. That's basically where he was early in the year.
Jones has only gone over 7 intended air yards per attempt 3 times, all in double digit losses.
I do accept your reasoning that with more stability Jones' downfield production has gotten better. Is it a category shift or just an improvement on what is a limited ability that has been demonstrated so far. I would say the latter. Jones would have to really open it up to change the perception that he can't win with a downfield passing attack.
you started your post with numbers, go back and look at them and you will answer your own question.
the way slayton, hodgins, james has played, over a full season that would = 45 20+ yard passes. where does that rank for you?
wherever that ranks, does it seem pretty good for 3 guys who are basically making league minimum?
So rather than accept data that clearly says he, so far, has not demonstrated the ability to excel in downfield passing, you choose to deny any reality of the data whatsoever. Nobody is claiming it is tennis, but to counter with the idea that stats which measure his performance are irrelevant and have no basis in how he plays the game, and point to his possible limitations, seems random. Is this how you discuss the production stats of other QBs. I'm going to guess no. You just make exceptions for Jones.
That's not what the data says. There is your interpretation of what you believe the data says.
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Pretty sure there are a myriad of factors that play into how the Giants are generating offense…Daniel Jones is only one of them. It’s not fucking tennis.
So rather than accept data that clearly says he, so far, has not demonstrated the ability to excel in downfield passing, you choose to deny any reality of the data whatsoever. Nobody is claiming it is tennis, but to counter with the idea that stats which measure his performance are irrelevant and have no basis in how he plays the game, and point to his possible limitations, seems random. Is this how you discuss the production stats of other QBs. I'm going to guess no. You just make exceptions for Jones.
It is not Jones' data. It is team data. You are pruning team data, and propping it up as some assertion of Jones' ability. Is that not crystal fucking clear to you?
If we took your logic...imagine the story we would tell ourselves of Tua and HIS game pre 2022. Or Tom Brady's ability pre-2007. Sit the fuck down you are a hack.
I wonder if some of those ended up in the ‘interception-worthy’ bucket.
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Or an attempt for you to cherry pick some stats that you think makes your Jones sucks argument look good?
these are not cherry-picked. This is what he is for better or worse, at least for now.
Of course they are cherry picked. Why not just admit that and have it accepted? You've posted all year about Jones sucking and you've oddly chose now to do it again. Against Minny, we can be effective throwing the ball. We've shown that and other teams have shown that. It won't just depend on his legs.
You keep saying stupid shit like "Period. End of story". Your story died weeks ago, but yet you keep peddling the same shit
Attempting to reestablish your case against him on the verge of the playoffs confirms a lot of suspicions expressed about your rooting interests
Some of you take the DJ thing personal, like he's your family member or something.
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Unless you look at actual facts based on physical ability.
"Daniel Jones is the best quarterback in the NFL at throwing the deep ball, per data released recently (in 2021) by Next Gen Stats." Jones downfield accuracy - ( New Window )
ok.. THAT's a cherry picked stat. And plenty noisy. Based on 39 total throws (tiny sample size). And noisy (Jones finished near the bottom in 2022, the very definition of a dumb stat. But BBI keeps rolling it out and calling him the best deep passer in the league.
So statistics you agree with are rock solid but those that you disagree with are noisy and invalid? Seems legit.
You’re saying DJ isn’t a good downfield passer, so they stick to short/intermediate. Others say the reason for low downfield numbers are WRs and OL, as much or more than his limitations. And they present evidence, he’s been a fine downfield passer in the past. But somehow THAT statistic is cherry picked and unduly noisy. But not your statistics which are, what? Perfectly construct validated under multiple double-blind random assignment trials? Right.
I don’t have a real dog in this fight, but it’s disingenuous at best to reject other statistics for your own choices that have no better provenance. (And statistically 39 can be a sufficient sample size for a lot of conclusions depending on the effect size, error term, and p value.)
The net yardage numbers in the thread starter are the wrong way to measure that.
The number I posted above, intended air yards per attempt, which is how far the quarterback actually throws the ball, is the right number.
Jones's 6.4 is second to last among all primary starters in the NFL.
Jones is throwing the ball short, for a lot of completions. That's how you end up 4th in completion percentage in the NFL among quarterbacks over 400 attempts.
The Giants basically have 1:1 air yards to yards after the catch ratio. Which isn't a bad thing. The Chargers, Packers, Bucs, Lions all were around there. The Chiefs have a negative ratio.
Exactly, not trying to start a war on every thread but saying something like that, which is so final or such a blanket and broad statement to make is going to get people worked up. It's just a ridiculous assertion to make about Jones that "he can't sustain a volume passing attack."
Again people, Just because the Giants don't run a high volume passing attack doesn't necessarily mean the QB is incapable of running a high volume passing attack. It really shouldn't be hard to meet in the middle on this topic.
Scott Fucking Mitchell ran a high volume passing attack. And here's the thing, just because you pass the ball all over the field 50 times a game doesn't make you a good or great QB!
I just think some here are smarter than this but there's this need ....i give up.
Just know this one more time, passing the ball a lot doesn't mean that the QB is great. It means the team thinks it's better off airing it out early and often. Who cares why...maybe they have no D. Maybe the OL can't pass block. Maybe the WRs aren't that good. OR MAYBE THE TEAM IS SKULL FUCKING DEFENSES WITH THE GROUND GAME. Maybe it's a little bit of all those things.
I guess Simms wasn't capable either. See 1989 and 1990. Christ. I can't anymore.
How we win absolutely matters. It is prologue for future success. Our schedule was as easy as it gets this year and our coach did a phenomenal job getting our players playing together at their collective ceilings. Is it predictive in the playoffs? We'll see.
The Vikings are a beatable three seed team because of "how they won this year". Their terrible pass defense resulted in possibly the worst score differential for a thirteen win team in NFL history. I agree that a game script much like Super Bowl XXV is what we want with Wink and Barkley doing the heavy lifting. But in the event they flip the game script on us, which is precisely what they want to do, a successful vertical passing game will be necessary for us to win on Sunday.
We need only remember 2016 to know that a winning season can be illusory.
Some of you take the DJ thing personal, like he's your family member or something.
I don't hate anybody, but some of us are just tired of the constant shitting on Jones. And the poster cherry picks, refuses to acknowledge the shit Jones has had to work with (3 coaches and playbooks in 4 years (and the only 2 consecutive years were with the worst playbook in the league), crappy OL, league bottom WRs, etc., yet he'll make excuses for other QBs).
And he starts posts like this one, like "look at me! I'm not here to shit on Jones", as he shits on Jones.
Just based on the standing ovation Jones got a couple weeks ago and the love he got from his teammates and HC, the poster is part of the fringe.
He's captain of the desperate ever dwindling Jones hating lunatic fringe.
It's not hate, it's just STFU already.
Nice find, PatersonPlank. But I'm sure he'll either ignore that or find some ridiculous way of discounting it, like "it's only 4 weeks, how about '20 and '21?".
Let's just win Sunday.
DJ can't throw the ball a lot.
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Does it matter how we are doing it as long as it isn’t just with takeaways (which is one stat that teams are not consistent with)? Why must it feature a downfield passing attack? Because you say so? Even if Daniel Jones could do well in a downfield passing attack, why would you use one if the OL can’t sustain their blocks long enough or the WR’s can’t get open? Daboll and Kafka are doing well adopting an offense to the 11 players they have on the field and not the other way around.
How we win absolutely matters. It is prologue for future success. Our schedule was as easy as it gets this year and our coach did a phenomenal job getting our players playing together at their collective ceilings. Is it predictive in the playoffs? We'll see.
The Vikings are a beatable three seed team because of "how they won this year". Their terrible pass defense resulted in possibly the worst score differential for a thirteen win team in NFL history. I agree that a game script much like Super Bowl XXV is what we want with Wink and Barkley doing the heavy lifting. But in the event they flip the game script on us, which is precisely what they want to do, a successful vertical passing game will be necessary for us to win on Sunday.
We need only remember 2016 to know that a winning season can be illusory.
Our SoS was easy this year? The Giants had the second highest opponent winning percentage of all playoff teams this year (only Miami was higher). While we did have 4 games against bottom 9 teams (Chicago, Houston, Indy, Carolina), everyone in NFC East had a .500 or greater winning percentage.
The Giants do leverage a short passing game and Jones does pass well against the blitz.
Does anyone actually disagree with that?
Aside from Slayton, there isn't really anyone on the team that can get open deep. And even when he does, he struggles to catch the ball.
Have they? The average air yards per attempt over the last 5 games Jones played has been pretty close to the year average.
The only big passing game lately was the Minnesota game, and over 50% of the yards were YAC.
This entire year was based on Brian Daboll elevating this team to its ceiling and beating inferior teams. Yes they beat Jax and Balt, but I see them as comparable teams, not superior teams.
Past is prologue. Let's hope this changes starting Sunday.
On behalf of thousands of lurkers who have never even bothered to register for this site, let alone post:
You are embarassing your self. We look forward to what you will post when DJ signs for 3/120 or 4/160 or 5/200.
Kafka coached Mahomes.
I dont think the length of passes has anything to do with success. At least the numbers dont show that. If you look at Intended Air Yards, meaning the yards in the air that a ball traveled whether completed or not Jones is the anomaly in that most of the other QB threw the ball farther andare in the top 10 but probably had a low completion % on those throws where Jones didnt throw it deep a lot but when he did he connected on a higher % of passes.
The bottom line is that we have the worst receiving corp in the playoffs and at least bottom 5 in all of the league so its probably more a product of a lack of talent at WR than it is on Jones throwing deep. You cant throw it deep if guys arent open and you cant throw it deep if the OL isnt giving time.
I am happy where Jones is atin his progression this season. He should have exceeded your expecttions this season. That doesnt mean he is the best in the league but its his 1st year in this offense and he will only get better. When he needed big games in Minn, Wash and Indy he produced. When the game was on the line in the season he produced more often than not.
Enjoy the playoffs instead of trying to prove you are right that Jones isnt great. Remember Simms and Eli were never the best in the league but they produced in big spots. Lets see what this 25 year old can do. Eli was 27 when he won his 1st Superbowl and 31 when he won his 2nd. Phil Simms was 31 when he won his 1st Superbowl.
the "facts" are that DJ and the offense done best when running and throwing the ball quickly... most will point to the lack of elite WR's and shaky O Line protection. Producer lays that at the feet of DJ.
regardless, if the point of this post is to say that the Giants best chance of success is to continue that, then my response is " well, duh"... so other than giving Producer a chance to passively agressively knock DJ, not sure what the point of this post is.
The Giants do leverage a short passing game and Jones does pass well against the blitz.
Does anyone actually disagree with that?
How can you disagree with the numbers? Do you think they are wrong? They paint a single picture and they aren't based on a subset or a small sample size.
On behalf of thousands of lurkers who have never even bothered to register for this site, let alone post:
You are embarassing your self. We look forward to what you will post when DJ signs for 3/120 or 4/160 or 5/200.
Does data really bother you so much?
No Paterson.. I have respect for you and your posts. The numbers I laid out are not cherry picked. They are based on large sample sizes and paint a single picture. But citing QBR over 4 games... that's the very definition of cherry picked. Both citing a single stat and limiting it to a convenient time frame. I am not saying your stat is useless or unimportant. It's worth discussion. But THAT is a cherry picked stat.
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In comment 15989114 Chris684 said:
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Or an attempt for you to cherry pick some stats that you think makes your Jones sucks argument look good?
these are not cherry-picked. This is what he is for better or worse, at least for now.
Of course they are cherry picked. Why not just admit that and have it accepted? You've posted all year about Jones sucking and you've oddly chose now to do it again. Against Minny, we can be effective throwing the ball. We've shown that and other teams have shown that. It won't just depend on his legs.
You keep saying stupid shit like "Period. End of story". Your story died weeks ago, but yet you keep peddling the same shit
No FMIC. these are whole season stats based on large sample sizes. They pain a picture of the player. You may not like it - but it's real data. And it's consistent. Why can't we discuss the performance of this player without being insulted? We're talking about a large contract in the offing.
BTW, I don't mind your observations and enjoy the interaction but resorting to inane insults hurts any point you are trying to make.
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I think we all know where Producer stands on Jones, and I disagree with the numbers he's used -- but I'm not sure his basic thesis is incorrect.
The Giants do leverage a short passing game and Jones does pass well against the blitz.
Does anyone actually disagree with that?
How can you disagree with the numbers? Do you think they are wrong? They paint a single picture and they aren't based on a subset or a small sample size.
The numbers lie because of what you are attempting to use them for. We don't know if the design of the offense is because of Jones's limitations or the limitations of those around him. Outside of Andrew Thomas, pass blocking is not the forte of our OL. Can they sustain blocks long enough to allow a deep ball to get open? Outside of Wan'dale Robinson, who is hurt, none of our WR's are great at getting open or making guys miss in the open field. I am sure Mike Kafka would love to have a Tyreek Hill-type, but none of our WR's are like that. We need someone like Odell Beckham Jr. under Ben McAdoo who could take a 10 yard slant into a 70 yard TD.
Very curious to see what transpires Sunday, just for that reason alone.
Here's a hint - it's hard to throw the ball deep when you don't have many deep threats. And the one they have, has hands of stone and double clutches the ones he does manage to catch.
Not to mention the fact the OL is not very good at blocking and Jones has pressure in face almost constantly
But hey - why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
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especially given the timing - I don't get the hate and the name calling.
Some of you take the DJ thing personal, like he's your family member or something.
I don't hate anybody, but some of us are just tired of the constant shitting on Jones. And the poster cherry picks, refuses to acknowledge the shit Jones has had to work with (3 coaches and playbooks in 4 years (and the only 2 consecutive years were with the worst playbook in the league), crappy OL, league bottom WRs, etc., yet he'll make excuses for other QBs).
And he starts posts like this one, like "look at me! I'm not here to shit on Jones", as he shits on Jones.
Just based on the standing ovation Jones got a couple weeks ago and the love he got from his teammates and HC, the poster is part of the fringe.
He's captain of the desperate ever dwindling Jones hating lunatic fringe.
It's not hate, it's just STFU already.
How true.
the "facts" are that DJ and the offense done best when running and throwing the ball quickly... most will point to the lack of elite WR's and shaky O Line protection. Producer lays that at the feet of DJ.
regardless, if the point of this post is to say that the Giants best chance of success is to continue that, then my response is " well, duh"... so other than giving Producer a chance to passively agressively knock DJ, not sure what the point of this post is.
Not so thinly veiled.
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I think we all know where Producer stands on Jones, and I disagree with the numbers he's used -- but I'm not sure his basic thesis is incorrect.
The Giants do leverage a short passing game and Jones does pass well against the blitz.
Does anyone actually disagree with that?
How can you disagree with the numbers? Do you think they are wrong? They paint a single picture and they aren't based on a subset or a small sample size.
No, I just think there is a better measurement, which is intended air yards. Net yards doesn't tell the full story.
Your conclusion is correct - the Giants don't throw the ball down the field much.
Here's a hint - it's hard to throw the ball deep when you don't have many deep threats. And the one they have, has hands of stone and double clutches the ones he does manage to catch.
Not to mention the fact the OL is not very good at blocking and Jones has pressure in face almost constantly
But hey - why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
I guess you missed the part where I gave positive stats about Jones vs the blitz and turnover-worthy throws in all sectors except intermediate. All positive metrics for Jones. Try reading the post next time rather than jumping to conclusions, and hysterics.
"Daniel Jones is the best quarterback in the NFL at throwing the deep ball, per data released recently (in 2021) by Next Gen Stats." Jones downfield accuracy - ( New Window )
Conclusions about what Jones can and can't do need to be informed by the fact he was playing for Joe Judge, who has led both the Giants and the Patriots to miserable offensive seasons. He was so bad with the Giants that ownership was forced to replace him, his staff and the GM, which they didn't want to do. He was so bad in his return to the Patriots that BB is being forced (probably) to replace him and Patricia, which BB (probably) didn't want to do.
DJ isn't the sort of man to yell at coaches on the sideline, but Mac Jones did, and he was right. DJ might have been better off if he'd sounded off to Judge and the OCs.
They are going to execute a high efficiency short passing game to control the ball combined with runs from Jones and the backs.and put themselves in favorable 3rd downs.
It works. Playoff games are often decided by turnovers. I like Jones over Cousins in this spot.
The QB is playing his best ball of his career.
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especially given the timing - I don't get the hate and the name calling.
Some of you take the DJ thing personal, like he's your family member or something.
I don't hate anybody, but some of us are just tired of the constant shitting on Jones. And the poster cherry picks, refuses to acknowledge the shit Jones has had to work with (3 coaches and playbooks in 4 years (and the only 2 consecutive years were with the worst playbook in the league), crappy OL, league bottom WRs, etc., yet he'll make excuses for other QBs).
And he starts posts like this one, like "look at me! I'm not here to shit on Jones", as he shits on Jones.
Just based on the standing ovation Jones got a couple weeks ago and the love he got from his teammates and HC, the poster is part of the fringe.
He's captain of the desperate ever dwindling Jones hating lunatic fringe.
It's not hate, it's just STFU already.
Take a good hard look at your own posts from time to time.
You may not like everybody's opinions but they are free to express them. Unless of course you are fine with others telling you to STFU already too.