I liked the choice, but you never know how these things work out. Not only is Daboll proving to be an excellent choice, he has put together an excellent staff. My hope was that they would look like a competent operation by the end of the year. They have outperformed that expectation.
I thought 5-7 wins was a good range for the team. They beat it by 3.5 wins.
I think the bulk of the difference is due to: 1. Barkley doing better than I anticipated. 2. Coaching (which includes the intelligent use of Jones in the running game).
I also think we got a little lucky in terms of when we played teams and the timing of some turnovers (which isn't predictable) but the latter is also the result of good coaching.
I think this roster is still in dire need of top tier talent - in the back seven on D, at wideout, in the interior, etc. I think we are a couple of years away from getting to top tier contender. But nail the draft, have Neal and Thibs take steps, have Jones take another step, and maybe we can be one of those secondary contenders as soon as next year?
especially on defense. The smart thing that DaBoll and Kafka did was create an offensive plan that worked around the offensive deficiencies on the OL and at WR.
I just hope we at the very least are able to retain Wink. Kafka would be great as well, but given his age and the focus on offense in the league right now he’ll be a head coach sooner than later.
I also admire the job Schoen has done managing the cap and finding players on waivers, etc.
Roster still has major holes. They are working minor miracles with what they have at WR, CB, ILB. And we're not talking one or two players away there. The OL is also still a work in progress. ZERO depth on DL too.
Where they did improve in-season was at TE and S.
As for timeline, that depends on your view of Daniel Jones. If he's the guy, then the timeline shrank big time. If he is not and they re-sign him, timeline is longer.
The roster is always fluid. Many key pieces that will play a prominent role Sunday were question marks as recently as a couple of months ago (Even a few weeks ago). I feel much better about many players on this roster than I did in September and October. Even the WR group.
Do I think this is a top tier team yet? Of course not. But the arrow is pointing up.
Are they showing to be a better group than earlier in the year? Of course. The team is coming together and players are actually developing for a change, including the QB. Coaching matters.
The playoffs are always an opportunity, especially with a team coming together at the right time.
Definitely didn't see Jones improving to this degree. In fact, I wasn't sure if he'd improve much at all, but thankfully he did in a big way. Barkley was GREAT in the first half of the season, but the fact that they still managed to make the playoffs in a very tough division with Barkley falling off in the second half of the season is impressive to me. The combo of the coaching by Daboll, the defense, the improvement of Jones, and the WRs playing alittle bit above their heads helped them make up for Barkley kinda falling off in the second half compared to his first half performance.
But I was wrong. First there were a number of players who were just much better than advertised. Obviously, Jones and Saquon lead that group they aren’t the only ones. Second, the coaching was levels better than I could have imagined. Going forward it’s clear that the roster is much closer than I think anyone could have believed . Still, there is a ways to go so we’ll see if year two of this regime can be as much above expectations as year one obviously is.
My expectations were way off given what we knew at the
very beginning of the season. I have been extraordinarily impressed w/Daboll and the entire coaching staff. Their ability to coach up players, plan for the game and make adjustments at halftime is remarkable. Regardless of what happens on Sunday, I am more excited for the Giants' future than I have been in a very long time.
Is my expectation of the coaching and decision making from the front office. I expect the coaching staff to keep the team competitive and evaluate on roster talent properly, whereas I had little or no faith in the prior three regimes in keeping the team competitive. Similarly, I expect the front office to build sustainable second contract talent on the roster. Those two things have me accelerating the timeline for a deep playoff run to within the next 3-5 years. This is subject to a few caveats:
- Giants obtain a true #1 receiver and a solid #2. I think the #3 slot can be filled by Slayton and/or Robinson.
- Pending the first point, is Jones actually the real deal? Can he lead a potent offense that can beat you through the air and on the ground?
- Does the Oline continue to gel and develop? Can Neal take a large leap forward like Thomas?
- Does the pass rush continue to form?
If I could answer all those questions in the affirmative I feel very good about this teams status in that timeframe. Especially, if Jones can push closer to a Herbert/Burrow level of play (I do not believe he is anywhere close to that as of today). That will be a sizeable advantage in the NFC, given that most of the NFLs elite qbs are in the AFC.
made a big difference. Game strategy, football intelligence, player development and utilization.
I think Jones has been a significant factor as was Barkley’s health early this year. The roster has some top talents but has gaping holes still and depth is a worry.
They exceeded my expectations by far and even in couple of losses (with exception of only three or four real stinkers in the loss column) were largely competitive still.
The pressure is on to build the roster forward and for Jones and Barkley to be sustainably good next year. I’m not making any prognostications for next year, just caution to fellow fans while optimism is good to have, this thing could just as easily backslide record wise and “trust” wise with some of the key players by a decent bit.
For me the big question is Jones. If they agree to a 3 year deal, then you have to surmise he's got more to prove and the possibility is still out there they draft their own QB, start developing him, continue building out the roster, etc.
They're a year ahead of schedule in terms of winning and earning a playoff spot. But, the QB decision looms large in the short term and 2023 outlook, imo.
I didn't see them as a bottom tier team but could be if the played the wrong style.
Roster wise I think they are in good shape. Good number of impact guys. Few are on the LOS which is where most Giants issues have stemmed from the last decade. Neal needs to be the next one to make a bigger impact.
Also agree with Eric about the weak spots.
If they stay with the commitment and success running (IOL improvement) they will be real good. If they tilt too much to the pass game I think they regress a bit or stay around a .500 team.
My feeling is they are staying committed to the run game and will add more pop in the pass game. They will strive to make the D a top 5 type of unit by next year.
You'll find that I have ALWAYS thought we had a talented roster and that we were just seeing the result of really poor coaching. What we've witnessed this year is the difference that a great HC and assistants can make. Some people think that Daboll is getting more out of these kids than what they are actually capable of. That's nonsense. Actually... it's impossible. But Daboll, Kafka and Wink are smart. they know exactly what each player is capable of and how to maximize their skills/talents by mixing and matching and finding synergies to use to enhance the output. The result is a team that can win in multiple ways depending on the opponent. There is a depth issue, but that is the thing that's going to take some time. What I am super impressed by is how unafraid this regime is to grab cast-offs early and often throughout the season and get them involved in the gameplan quickly and effectively. We may be able to solve the depth problem in this manner before we even get to the draft, LOL! Big brains in this FO. It's a really nice feeling.
Realistically speaking, with a few different bounces of the ball, this could easily have been a well-coached 6 or 7 win team.
Even with an influx of talent it's certainly reasonable that the Giants would again be a fringe playoff team in 2023 depending on how the schedule shakes out and a variety of other factors: notably how the QB develops, injuries, and luck.
I would hope that the management team views this as a multi-year project, because there is still a ways to go until the Giants are on the level of the Chiefs, Bills, Eagles, or Bengals. The idea would be to put a plan in place that keeps the window open for a long time, even if it's not open immediately.
RE: yes because the coaching has exceed my expectations.
I liked the choice, but you never know how these things work out. Not only is Daboll proving to be an excellent choice, he has put together an excellent staff. My hope was that they would look like a competent operation by the end of the year. They have outperformed that expectation.
+1.
We had some games where things went well for us, ‘luck’ if you will , and some due to coaching up,especially the PS guys and revolving bottom end of the roster guys. I can only imagine if the bottom half of the draft class was healthy:
Ezeudu, McKethan, Beavers, Davidson
a major infusion of talent so the "super bowl window" is still not within reach IMO. The GM still has a lot of work to do. After all, this is still a team that:
-was outscored on the season
-after beating Houston on 11/13 we were 7-3. We played 8 more games and won 2 of them.
-won one division game
I do believe the arrow is point up for the first time in a LONG time, but the roster just isn't there yet.
The talent was better than I thought and the coaching was better than
I expected. I thought 5 maybe 6 wins most. Teams we played were worse than I thought or we played them at the right time and we had a few things break our way. That said we had some adversity and this coach and staff were able to pull through it. They were able to get more out of the likes of Ximines and Crowder than I thought possible and more than the previous regimes. Barkley, Jones and Lawrence took the next steps in their careers. The fundamentals seemed important to this staff and team, ie, they may make a catch on our DBs but they were almost always immediately tackled, limiting YAC. Little things mattered to them. I believe they are now a middle tier team at least talent wise, and like others, I think they may take a step back next year. But unlike recent years, I believe this staff and GM have a good philosophy and or plan and I think for once in a long while, the arrow is pointing up for this franchise.
a major infusion of talent so the "super bowl window" is still not within reach IMO. The GM still has a lot of work to do. After all, this is still a team that:
-was outscored on the season
-after beating Houston on 11/13 we were 7-3. We played 8 more games and won 2 of them.
-won one division game
I do believe the arrow is point up for the first time in a LONG time, but the roster just isn't there yet.
Very fair point. Still a LOS issue but moving in right direction. Neal advancing and strengthening the IOL should change that matchup when it comes to division opponents. Since our division has some of the best lines if we match up with those teams we should with other as well outside imv.
But that was mostly a function of seeing us have one of the softest projected schedules in the league. The schedule ended up being much more difficult than anticipated with the NFCE being the strongest division in the league and teams like the Seahawks and Lions exceeding their cellar expectations. So 9.5 wins with a toughish schedule where we essentially punted the last game is pretty big in exceeding expectations.
In terms of the roster - a couple of role players turned into core/star players in Love and Dex and AT ascended to blue chip LT status. DJ emerged as a solid starter. So I'll echo that we're a year ahead. I actually think a little more depth and a couple of star players in key spots will have us just below the elite tier. Those stars can be younger guys like KT emergining or binking on a rookie or FA.
Assuming no brain drain in the coaching staff, we should have a coaching advantage (push at worst) in every single game.
I've been pessimistic all year due to the flaws. In the offseason, our flaws become great opportunities.
- LB : We are basically devoid of talent. If we bring in journeyman talent, that is a huge upgrade of where we are.
- WR : Our top 3WR's right now are primarily non-roster players. Hodgins can develop probably to a nice 3. Wandale hopefully returns to be the slot guy. We can easily get a cheap free agent and day 1/day 2 pick and be tremendously better.
- OL : I think it comes down to cohesion, a little better health and some younger players ascending. I think Gates probably resigns so we go into next year with at minimum competition at the interior positions of Bredeson/Ezedou/Gates/Glowinski/Lemieux and maybe even Phillips. Neal is a top 5 player with no signs of a bad work ethic.
- CB : There is some young players who should improve. I see Flott being the second corner next year but we probably also use a day1/day 2 pick.
- Interior DL depth : Again, we have journeyman at best. Using 1 of our 2 3's and a moderately priced vet would do wonders.
I really think we can accomplish this in 1 offseason.
the biggest developments (literally) were 2 all pros (dex/at)
thomas has played like an all pro at a premium position. dex has played like an all pro at an important non-premium position (DL), but with his pass rush ability makes it premium.
that is what changes the calculation most imo.
last year there were only a few teams that had 3x all pros on their roster. heading into this year barkley was really the only guy who'd have considered to have realistic shot at all pro. 2 all pros in the trenches entering prime years, with an argument as the best at their positions and with other good talent around them also already secured (neal, kt, williams, ojulari, etc) completely changes the outlook of this roster. if you let an evaluator pick 1 team's offensive and defensive line talent for the next 5 years, it's possible the nyg would be the #1 choice. at minimum they are now in the conversation whereas last offseason it was even debated whether or not lawrence was worth the 5YO. excellent play in the trenches is a great place for any roster to start.
all of that is aside from the importance of now having very good coaching and a QB they appear to like enough to extend. it's even aside from barkley who has shown he's still a very impactful piece when healthy beyond a typical rb.
i see little need to classify the nyg roster as anything more or less than it is right now (a wild card team), and id also point out last year the eagles were in a very similar situation (9-8 wild card team overachieving with rookie hc, 2 all pros lane johnson, jason kelce, very good DL, ? at QB) and ahead of the offseason im not sure anyone was predicting the kind of season they ended up having. If the nyg FO were somehow able to add the equivalent AJB, Bradberry, Jordan Davis, CGJ, etc i think that hypothetical roster's ceiling would similarly raise above wild card.
I thought Daboll would be a strong coach with a learning curve. Seems like the former was true and the latter was not. That shortens the timeline and provides more flexibility with the roster.
I actually don't think it's a miracle they are succeeding. They just have a great staff.
The only miraculous outcome this year is Jones and Barkley played a mostly healthy season, and missed no games. The other silver lining good fortune is despite the number of injuries, there weren't many season ending ones.
I look at teams that were really good in one score games as candidates for regression next year and teams that were really bad in one score games as candidates for improvement. Raiders lost 8 one score games for example.
Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule, but generally teams cannot consistently maintain their performance in one score games.
So from that perspective, I can see the Giants taking a step back next year.
Based on this year's performance I think the expectation is that they get to 10+ wins. I think they are an 8-9 win team again next year if you assume regression to the mean in one score games. But that means more wins by 9+ points which is a good sign.
league is much less than most believe. Every year you see a team make a big jump (Bengals last year, giants this year) and a team regress (i.e. Rams this year). Really good teams are in the mix every year (Pats, steelers).
Keys:
1). Good coaching. Almost the whole roster turns over on every team every 3 or 4 years. The coaching is the difference.
2). QB play. Obviously.
3). Luck.
4). Injuries - largely a subset of luck, but worthy of its own mention.
This year we hit homeruns on 1 & 2, did well on 3, and crapped out on 4. The good news is that we are in better injury shape right now than we have been all year. Minn (and Philly) are in the opposite position. We can, with a little luck, make a run this year. If Jones is really the answer (and I think he is) the rebuild is over, and with good coaching (which I think we have) we should be in the hunt every year.
I also thought that a better coaching staff would've gotten a few more wins out of the team last year. And that a better coaching staff would get more out of Jones (who had shown flashes in the past) and some of the other talent already here.
I expected Barkley to have a bounce back year and I expected Wink to do better than Graham. How could a new young OC (who worked for Reid) not do better than Garrett?
I'm not shocked at 9 wins. I don't know if I even made a prediction on one of the threads, but 9-8 would've been reasonable, imo. How we got those 9 wins (or how good the NFCE would be), no one could've predicted.
Their best players look very good, but there remains a ton of holes and depth issues. This is where the draft and sticking to their process is vital, build from the draft. Cap should be healthier in 2023, much better in 2024, and that's a leading factor why NYG will look considerably different by the time they're ready to win a SB as their draft picks and foundation really fall in place.
the coaching staff (and JS) have exceeded my expectations (so far). Some might say that doesn't make sense.
It does, because the NFCE has exceeded my expectations. I wasn't expecting it to be so good and that the Giants would only get one win (and a tie) in div.
I'm 40 years old - too young to really experience the Parcells days.
I'd say, since my serious fandom, this is the first time I truly believe their is alignment between GM and HC, and it shows.
In years past, I think it was more ownership than GM making HC decisions. They also had their nose in player acquisition, through Chris Mara's role in scouting, to John reversing the bench Eli decision due to fan backlash.
I think Coughlin and Reese overcame this with a real Franchise QB. But than again, they caught lightning in a bottle twice after some lackluster regular season finishes.
Just look at the Chiefs OL situation when they lost to the Bucs in the SB. You're never going to have the perfect team and situation, but hopefully decent enough depth to whether storms when starters go down. I think another year of OL development will help there but they will need better players/depth at WR, ILB and DL in my opinion. A case could be made for CB as well.
I would say they're middle of the pack overall, maybe towards the bottom of that middle or top of that middle depending on your view point. If Jones is the guy, which I think he could be, another good offseason of talent/player acquisition to go with the development of those currently on roster, hopefully coaching staff remaining intact and I think they could start to trend into the top 10-12 teams next year.
I would say they're middle of the pack overall, maybe towards the bottom of that middle or top of that middle depending on your view point. If Jones is the guy, which I think he could be, another good offseason of talent/player acquisition to go with the development of those currently on roster, hopefully coaching staff remaining intact and I think they could start to trend into the top 10-12 teams next year.
I agree about every team having holes. You don't want them to be gaping holes and you want as few as possible.
As far as trending into the top 10-12 teams next year, if we beat Minny this week, we'll be in the top 8 this year.. before offseason talent acquisitions, further development, etc.
I agree about every team having holes. You don't want them to be gaping holes and you want as few as possible.
As far as trending into the top 10-12 teams next year, if we beat Minny this week, we'll be in the top 8 this year.. before offseason talent acquisitions, further development, etc.
Just by who is left, yes, but as has been said here, they're playing above their heads a bit with some great coaching. I'm strictly talking about looking at teams going into next year, their rosters and a power ranking of sorts. But I get what you're saying...
I am very pleased with Daboll and company. I'm still not particularly happy with the roster as a whole. Whether they can continue to improve next year, or take a step back, rests largely on Joe Schoen's shoulders. The offseason will be very interesting.
on the defense. If we didn't lose Jackson (basically half the season) and Robinson (the entire season), I think the defensive results are even better. IMV, our defensive talent is easily in the top half of the league. Fortunately, the talent was rewarded with a coach (and his staff) who knows how to adjust game plans by opponent and, equally important, develop and optimize personnel.
In the aggregate, the offensive talent is probably at a C-. And it's dragged down by not having a legit WR1 and pass blocking by the interior three. I don't what to think of the interior pieces going forward (maybe more experience and development solves a lot), but no issue at all looking for upgrades in at least two of those spots.
You have to heap tons of praise on Daboll/Kafka for figuring out a formula that can work and getting the players - specifically Jones - to buy in and execute. The designed runs for Jones, and Jones having confidence to improvise with runs, are keys to why we have succeeded. I'm still not sure Jones is the right trigger man as a passer, but it seems certain he will have more time to prove that out.
I predicted 9-10 wins with the schedule this year. It was very soft outside the division. And the NFC just went sideways with craziness. So, kudos to the team for winning those winnable games (and a few of the unexpected games).
Is it possible there is some Fools Gold here? Maybe. But you have to feel better moving forward to manage that with a competent GM and a high-end coaching staff.
great improvement so that bodes well for the future but I need to see more than one year out of this group before we crown them. I think the performance this year demands higher expectations especially if you buy in to the greatness of the new regiem.
I thnk the roster needs ALOT of work. Arrow pointing up, yes, but a long way to go on the OL, WR, CB, LB, squads to just name a few. Need those injured draft pics to impact next year.
SB window is a fantasy....like the lottery ticket I bought today. Could happen this year, or in 3, or in 10, its such a crapshoot. Just want to see them be competitive in the division and a consistent playoff contender.....from here on out.
If you looked at the roster last year and what we have this year, players have been coached up to perform.
Dex was a good player that has achieved a higher level of success by coaching and putting him in position to be successful. We always saw glimpses.
Look at the CB play from guys who were on the street.
I would even bet that if Engram was still here he would have been put in a better position to succeed.
Daboll and company did what Judge promised. Put people in a position to be successful. The offensive system we used the last 2 years had just about every player have their worst numbers.
Jones went from promising rookie under Shurmur to a guy that people wanted to run out of town to now a guy that can be a quality NFL starter.
A stong system foundation has helped us be successful plugging in new guys. We have a long way to go but building blocks are in place.
because he has that ability that great coaches have, he gets the most out of each guy and if that guy doesn't buy in the disappear. Don't think this team will win the Super Bowl, but in 2007 I felt they wouldn't win it either. Next year we will be one if the contenders I really believe that. Parcells, Lombardi, Belichick, Vermeal, many others brought winning with them.
are paramount in the NFL. People tend to overblow the talent difference between teams. Most teams are fairly equal in talent, but some teams have great QBs, and some get lucky on the injury front.
We have little depth on the D-line primarily due to injury. The O-Line is still a work in progress, but has several promising pieces.
Think about Dallas, where would they be now if Garrett was the OC and Mike Nolan was the DC?
because he has that ability that great coaches have, he gets the most out of each guy and if that guy doesn't buy in the disappear. Don't think this team will win the Super Bowl, but in 2007 I felt they wouldn't win it either. Next year we will be one if the contenders I really believe that. Parcells, Lombardi, Belichick, Vermeal, many others brought winning with them.
Good post. I had them at 7-10, and thought 8-9 was reasonable, but getting that last win and a half means a lot. Daboll did what the best coaches do, he found out what his guys did well, and put them in a position to do that. And he inspired guys to play hard and to do the dirty work.
As an example, for all of the grief Golladay gets, much of it deserved, he has been a terrific downfield blocker this year, not something he was known for previously. Daboll made sure that WR’s understood that if they didn’t block, they didn’t play.
are paramount in the NFL. People tend to overblow the talent difference between teams. Most teams are fairly equal in talent, but some teams have great QBs, and some get lucky on the injury front.
This is very, very true.
The great separators are the force multipliers: QB, coaching, front office.
We also go some really bad ones, particularly on the injury front. We played much of the season without our top two CB's and our top 3 WR. Not to mention losing Bellinger + 2 starting OL in the JAX game for several weeks. Overall, I'd say we are what our record says we are. About an average team. I would be quite pleasantly surprised if we challenged for the SB this year. Next year I will be disappointed if we miss the playoffs, and would not be so surprised if we made a serious run.
and sucking it up to get out of cap hell. What I am most impressed with is how the organization, from the FO to coaching to the players have bought in on a culture of competing in a team-first manner. I also think this culture has allowed some players to grow or become better, specifically Thomas, Lawrence and Jones. It is a happy and humbling reminder that many things in life are non-linear.
As far as the roster goes, I think that the growth of a few players has made it greater than what I thought it was, but we still need more competition/bodies at DL, OG/C, ILB, TE and CB as well as a distinct talent upgrade at WR. The front office has done a good job of finding players at the floor of the market. I hope that they use cap space that becomes available in the future to lock up core guys (Thomas, Lawrence, Love, McKinney, Jones) and not blow it all on FAs - that hasn't worked out too well for us in the past.
Best case scenarios in terms of future, I think we are a year away from knocking on the door so long as we have a good draft that provides solid contributors in their rookie year. Two years away from real contender as long as players continue to develop and we hit two drafts in a row.
I think the bulk of the difference is due to: 1. Barkley doing better than I anticipated. 2. Coaching (which includes the intelligent use of Jones in the running game).
I also think we got a little lucky in terms of when we played teams and the timing of some turnovers (which isn't predictable) but the latter is also the result of good coaching.
I think this roster is still in dire need of top tier talent - in the back seven on D, at wideout, in the interior, etc. I think we are a couple of years away from getting to top tier contender. But nail the draft, have Neal and Thibs take steps, have Jones take another step, and maybe we can be one of those secondary contenders as soon as next year?
I also admire the job Schoen has done managing the cap and finding players on waivers, etc.
Where they did improve in-season was at TE and S.
As for timeline, that depends on your view of Daniel Jones. If he's the guy, then the timeline shrank big time. If he is not and they re-sign him, timeline is longer.
Do I think this is a top tier team yet? Of course not. But the arrow is pointing up.
Are they showing to be a better group than earlier in the year? Of course. The team is coming together and players are actually developing for a change, including the QB. Coaching matters.
The playoffs are always an opportunity, especially with a team coming together at the right time.
The Superbowl window begins now IMO.
very beginning of the season. I have been extraordinarily impressed w/Daboll and the entire coaching staff. Their ability to coach up players, plan for the game and make adjustments at halftime is remarkable. Regardless of what happens on Sunday, I am more excited for the Giants' future than I have been in a very long time.
- Giants obtain a true #1 receiver and a solid #2. I think the #3 slot can be filled by Slayton and/or Robinson.
- Pending the first point, is Jones actually the real deal? Can he lead a potent offense that can beat you through the air and on the ground?
- Does the Oline continue to gel and develop? Can Neal take a large leap forward like Thomas?
- Does the pass rush continue to form?
If I could answer all those questions in the affirmative I feel very good about this teams status in that timeframe. Especially, if Jones can push closer to a Herbert/Burrow level of play (I do not believe he is anywhere close to that as of today). That will be a sizeable advantage in the NFC, given that most of the NFLs elite qbs are in the AFC.
I think Jones has been a significant factor as was Barkley’s health early this year. The roster has some top talents but has gaping holes still and depth is a worry.
They exceeded my expectations by far and even in couple of losses (with exception of only three or four real stinkers in the loss column) were largely competitive still.
The pressure is on to build the roster forward and for Jones and Barkley to be sustainably good next year. I’m not making any prognostications for next year, just caution to fellow fans while optimism is good to have, this thing could just as easily backslide record wise and “trust” wise with some of the key players by a decent bit.
They're a year ahead of schedule in terms of winning and earning a playoff spot. But, the QB decision looms large in the short term and 2023 outlook, imo.
NFL is new every year
Roster wise I think they are in good shape. Good number of impact guys. Few are on the LOS which is where most Giants issues have stemmed from the last decade. Neal needs to be the next one to make a bigger impact.
Also agree with Eric about the weak spots.
If they stay with the commitment and success running (IOL improvement) they will be real good. If they tilt too much to the pass game I think they regress a bit or stay around a .500 team.
My feeling is they are staying committed to the run game and will add more pop in the pass game. They will strive to make the D a top 5 type of unit by next year.
Even with an influx of talent it's certainly reasonable that the Giants would again be a fringe playoff team in 2023 depending on how the schedule shakes out and a variety of other factors: notably how the QB develops, injuries, and luck.
I would hope that the management team views this as a multi-year project, because there is still a ways to go until the Giants are on the level of the Chiefs, Bills, Eagles, or Bengals. The idea would be to put a plan in place that keeps the window open for a long time, even if it's not open immediately.
+1.
We had some games where things went well for us, ‘luck’ if you will , and some due to coaching up,especially the PS guys and revolving bottom end of the roster guys. I can only imagine if the bottom half of the draft class was healthy:
Ezeudu, McKethan, Beavers, Davidson
-was outscored on the season
-after beating Houston on 11/13 we were 7-3. We played 8 more games and won 2 of them.
-won one division game
I do believe the arrow is point up for the first time in a LONG time, but the roster just isn't there yet.
-was outscored on the season
-after beating Houston on 11/13 we were 7-3. We played 8 more games and won 2 of them.
-won one division game
I do believe the arrow is point up for the first time in a LONG time, but the roster just isn't there yet.
Very fair point. Still a LOS issue but moving in right direction. Neal advancing and strengthening the IOL should change that matchup when it comes to division opponents. Since our division has some of the best lines if we match up with those teams we should with other as well outside imv.
In terms of the roster - a couple of role players turned into core/star players in Love and Dex and AT ascended to blue chip LT status. DJ emerged as a solid starter. So I'll echo that we're a year ahead. I actually think a little more depth and a couple of star players in key spots will have us just below the elite tier. Those stars can be younger guys like KT emergining or binking on a rookie or FA.
Assuming no brain drain in the coaching staff, we should have a coaching advantage (push at worst) in every single game.
- LB : We are basically devoid of talent. If we bring in journeyman talent, that is a huge upgrade of where we are.
- WR : Our top 3WR's right now are primarily non-roster players. Hodgins can develop probably to a nice 3. Wandale hopefully returns to be the slot guy. We can easily get a cheap free agent and day 1/day 2 pick and be tremendously better.
- OL : I think it comes down to cohesion, a little better health and some younger players ascending. I think Gates probably resigns so we go into next year with at minimum competition at the interior positions of Bredeson/Ezedou/Gates/Glowinski/Lemieux and maybe even Phillips. Neal is a top 5 player with no signs of a bad work ethic.
- CB : There is some young players who should improve. I see Flott being the second corner next year but we probably also use a day1/day 2 pick.
- Interior DL depth : Again, we have journeyman at best. Using 1 of our 2 3's and a moderately priced vet would do wonders.
I really think we can accomplish this in 1 offseason.
that is what changes the calculation most imo.
last year there were only a few teams that had 3x all pros on their roster. heading into this year barkley was really the only guy who'd have considered to have realistic shot at all pro. 2 all pros in the trenches entering prime years, with an argument as the best at their positions and with other good talent around them also already secured (neal, kt, williams, ojulari, etc) completely changes the outlook of this roster. if you let an evaluator pick 1 team's offensive and defensive line talent for the next 5 years, it's possible the nyg would be the #1 choice. at minimum they are now in the conversation whereas last offseason it was even debated whether or not lawrence was worth the 5YO. excellent play in the trenches is a great place for any roster to start.
all of that is aside from the importance of now having very good coaching and a QB they appear to like enough to extend. it's even aside from barkley who has shown he's still a very impactful piece when healthy beyond a typical rb.
i see little need to classify the nyg roster as anything more or less than it is right now (a wild card team), and id also point out last year the eagles were in a very similar situation (9-8 wild card team overachieving with rookie hc, 2 all pros lane johnson, jason kelce, very good DL, ? at QB) and ahead of the offseason im not sure anyone was predicting the kind of season they ended up having. If the nyg FO were somehow able to add the equivalent AJB, Bradberry, Jordan Davis, CGJ, etc i think that hypothetical roster's ceiling would similarly raise above wild card.
I actually don't think it's a miracle they are succeeding. They just have a great staff.
The only miraculous outcome this year is Jones and Barkley played a mostly healthy season, and missed no games. The other silver lining good fortune is despite the number of injuries, there weren't many season ending ones.
Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule, but generally teams cannot consistently maintain their performance in one score games.
So from that perspective, I can see the Giants taking a step back next year.
Based on this year's performance I think the expectation is that they get to 10+ wins. I think they are an 8-9 win team again next year if you assume regression to the mean in one score games. But that means more wins by 9+ points which is a good sign.
In a nutshell we're seeing good coaching making players better + a sound strategy being executed.
I'd really like to see what this staff can do with a better roster.
This team has a lot of core, young talent to move forward with and I fully expect Schoen to fill the obvious holes, mostly through the draft..
What I didn’t expect was the solid performance (in the main) from the 2nd and 3rd liners group..
Keys:
1). Good coaching. Almost the whole roster turns over on every team every 3 or 4 years. The coaching is the difference.
2). QB play. Obviously.
3). Luck.
4). Injuries - largely a subset of luck, but worthy of its own mention.
This year we hit homeruns on 1 & 2, did well on 3, and crapped out on 4. The good news is that we are in better injury shape right now than we have been all year. Minn (and Philly) are in the opposite position. We can, with a little luck, make a run this year. If Jones is really the answer (and I think he is) the rebuild is over, and with good coaching (which I think we have) we should be in the hunt every year.
I expected Barkley to have a bounce back year and I expected Wink to do better than Graham. How could a new young OC (who worked for Reid) not do better than Garrett?
I'm not shocked at 9 wins. I don't know if I even made a prediction on one of the threads, but 9-8 would've been reasonable, imo. How we got those 9 wins (or how good the NFCE would be), no one could've predicted.
It does, because the NFCE has exceeded my expectations. I wasn't expecting it to be so good and that the Giants would only get one win (and a tie) in div.
I'd say, since my serious fandom, this is the first time I truly believe their is alignment between GM and HC, and it shows.
In years past, I think it was more ownership than GM making HC decisions. They also had their nose in player acquisition, through Chris Mara's role in scouting, to John reversing the bench Eli decision due to fan backlash.
I think Coughlin and Reese overcame this with a real Franchise QB. But than again, they caught lightning in a bottle twice after some lackluster regular season finishes.
I would say they're middle of the pack overall, maybe towards the bottom of that middle or top of that middle depending on your view point. If Jones is the guy, which I think he could be, another good offseason of talent/player acquisition to go with the development of those currently on roster, hopefully coaching staff remaining intact and I think they could start to trend into the top 10-12 teams next year.
I would say they're middle of the pack overall, maybe towards the bottom of that middle or top of that middle depending on your view point. If Jones is the guy, which I think he could be, another good offseason of talent/player acquisition to go with the development of those currently on roster, hopefully coaching staff remaining intact and I think they could start to trend into the top 10-12 teams next year.
I agree about every team having holes. You don't want them to be gaping holes and you want as few as possible.
As far as trending into the top 10-12 teams next year, if we beat Minny this week, we'll be in the top 8 this year.. before offseason talent acquisitions, further development, etc.
I agree about every team having holes. You don't want them to be gaping holes and you want as few as possible.
As far as trending into the top 10-12 teams next year, if we beat Minny this week, we'll be in the top 8 this year.. before offseason talent acquisitions, further development, etc.
Just by who is left, yes, but as has been said here, they're playing above their heads a bit with some great coaching. I'm strictly talking about looking at teams going into next year, their rosters and a power ranking of sorts. But I get what you're saying...
In the aggregate, the offensive talent is probably at a C-. And it's dragged down by not having a legit WR1 and pass blocking by the interior three. I don't what to think of the interior pieces going forward (maybe more experience and development solves a lot), but no issue at all looking for upgrades in at least two of those spots.
You have to heap tons of praise on Daboll/Kafka for figuring out a formula that can work and getting the players - specifically Jones - to buy in and execute. The designed runs for Jones, and Jones having confidence to improvise with runs, are keys to why we have succeeded. I'm still not sure Jones is the right trigger man as a passer, but it seems certain he will have more time to prove that out.
I predicted 9-10 wins with the schedule this year. It was very soft outside the division. And the NFC just went sideways with craziness. So, kudos to the team for winning those winnable games (and a few of the unexpected games).
Is it possible there is some Fools Gold here? Maybe. But you have to feel better moving forward to manage that with a competent GM and a high-end coaching staff.
I thnk the roster needs ALOT of work. Arrow pointing up, yes, but a long way to go on the OL, WR, CB, LB, squads to just name a few. Need those injured draft pics to impact next year.
SB window is a fantasy....like the lottery ticket I bought today. Could happen this year, or in 3, or in 10, its such a crapshoot. Just want to see them be competitive in the division and a consistent playoff contender.....from here on out.
Dex was a good player that has achieved a higher level of success by coaching and putting him in position to be successful. We always saw glimpses.
Look at the CB play from guys who were on the street.
I would even bet that if Engram was still here he would have been put in a better position to succeed.
Daboll and company did what Judge promised. Put people in a position to be successful. The offensive system we used the last 2 years had just about every player have their worst numbers.
Jones went from promising rookie under Shurmur to a guy that people wanted to run out of town to now a guy that can be a quality NFL starter.
A stong system foundation has helped us be successful plugging in new guys. We have a long way to go but building blocks are in place.
We have little depth on the D-line primarily due to injury. The O-Line is still a work in progress, but has several promising pieces.
Think about Dallas, where would they be now if Garrett was the OC and Mike Nolan was the DC?
Good post. I had them at 7-10, and thought 8-9 was reasonable, but getting that last win and a half means a lot. Daboll did what the best coaches do, he found out what his guys did well, and put them in a position to do that. And he inspired guys to play hard and to do the dirty work.
As an example, for all of the grief Golladay gets, much of it deserved, he has been a terrific downfield blocker this year, not something he was known for previously. Daboll made sure that WR’s understood that if they didn’t block, they didn’t play.
This is very, very true.
The great separators are the force multipliers: QB, coaching, front office.
They've been on the road, scouting
As far as the roster goes, I think that the growth of a few players has made it greater than what I thought it was, but we still need more competition/bodies at DL, OG/C, ILB, TE and CB as well as a distinct talent upgrade at WR. The front office has done a good job of finding players at the floor of the market. I hope that they use cap space that becomes available in the future to lock up core guys (Thomas, Lawrence, Love, McKinney, Jones) and not blow it all on FAs - that hasn't worked out too well for us in the past.
Best case scenarios in terms of future, I think we are a year away from knocking on the door so long as we have a good draft that provides solid contributors in their rookie year. Two years away from real contender as long as players continue to develop and we hit two drafts in a row.