There was a Barkley thread a few days ago and I’m surprised how many people are content with not paying Barkley. I also think his performance on Sunday has been under appreciated a bit. His presence in the passing game is why I think the Giants will pay him. Barkley is the engine. Barkley elevates Jones. That’s not meant to be a slight at all on Jones, but Barkley is so crucial in how this offense operates.
If Barkley is off the team, I’d expect Jones to decline. Both are necessary to the offense.
Eric stated a few months ago that they are a package deal, and I agree.
Same with WR and TE.
But Jones and Barkley are the foundation!
If you can only pay one, Jones seems like the way to go. But, my dream would be to get creative with both of them and re-sign both. Worst case, it would be great if we could tag Barkley, which keeps him for up to 2 years.
It's not easy to find a starting RB in the NFL over the age of 28.
If we offer Saquan a deal, I just don't want it to be more than 3 yrs. If he demands more than that, via con Dios.
If you can only pay one, Jones seems like the way to go. But, my dream would be to get creative with both of them and re-sign both. Worst case, it would be great if we could tag Barkley, which keeps him for up to 2 years.
Barkley isn’t just a RB though. He is a force in the passing game. That’s what I think gets ignored too much.
Agreed. I'm not in love with any FA options at WR/RB, so outside of a "good fit" signing at IOL or LB, I don't really want Giants doing any big FA shopping, the 2023 cap space is going to go fast with Jones getting a big increase (even moving some money to later years with playing around with guarantees in bonuses in later years, won't reduce a likely cap charge around 25-30m to start).
RBs...JFC.
2) Dex
3) Barkley
4) Love
5) A Thomas (eligible?)
I’m a huge Barkley fan, but I think Dex is a more unique / harder to replace talent.
I know Dex is on his 5th year option in 2023.
RBs...JFC.
You think removing Barkley from the equation and this offense doesn’t regress? People make it sound like Barkley is Jerome Bettis. He does so much more in the passing game.
RBs...JFC.
Ghis is not JUST a RB..They’re not going anywhere..
RBs...JFC.
I think it's like any other position: if you have an elite player, they make more of a difference than the average player at the position does. I don't think we beat the Vikings if you replace Barkley's touches with most other RBs.
But I still understand any wariness about signing him long term because it's very likely that in 2-3 years, he will no longer be that "you can't replicate his productivity with another RB" RB.
What if we fail to sign him and then draft Bijan Robinson at the end of the first round (if he surprisingly makes it that far)?
It's not easy to find a starting RB in the NFL over the age of 28.
If we offer Saquan a deal, I just don't want it to be more than 3 yrs. If he demands more than that, via con Dios.
SB is shifty with relatively few carries and only takes big hits or uses his power when it’s necessary. If properly managed I don’t think he’ll break down for years.
RBs...JFC.
Why do we care about other teams? You can’t have this line of thinking across the board, it doesn’t make any sense. What WRs are we paying this offseason? We should draft 2 and stay cost effective at a position that’s over inflated.
RBs don’t make crippling amounts of money anymore. Time to operate in 2024 and not 2015.
Again, his performance gets overlooked. He was fantastic in the win on Sunday.
Geez, have some faith in JS, I think he knows a thing or two about the cap, what the MAX cost and is it going to be in line with a "team friendly" deal or not. I believe he is going to build this team the right way and we will quickly put the DG stench behind us.
Have to keep this in mind during negotiations.
If you can only pay one, Jones seems like the way to go. But, my dream would be to get creative with both of them and re-sign both. Worst case, it would be great if we could tag Barkley, which keeps him for up to 2 years.
DJ is the best player on the team and the most important. He will soon be the highest paid too. Barkley will make less than half of what DJ marks in AAV and have a shorter length of contract.
The Giants will bring them both back and the fact that they are best friends is a very good thing.
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Barkley is about to turn 26.
It's not easy to find a starting RB in the NFL over the age of 28.
If we offer Saquan a deal, I just don't want it to be more than 3 yrs. If he demands more than that, via con Dios.
Zeke is an overworked bruiser who is playing well even at his age (now that his workload is reasonable).
SB is shifty with relatively few carries and only takes big hits or uses his power when it’s necessary. If properly managed I don’t think he’ll break down for years.
True, Elliot isn't a good comp. What about Marshall FaulK? He was going pretty strong until age 31. At 32(his last season) his production had all but stopped.
Even if we miss out on a year or two of Barkley's prime, I guess I just don't trust a RB to be healthy after age 30.
I'll let Schoen figure out the other numbers lol
And when you're in your window, you go for it. Anything else would be ridiculous.
Barkley is a top 5 back, you can't let him go.
That should tell you everything you need to know about how they weigh his value to this team
As a fan all I can say is I love rooting for these guys, they've endured the mediocrity firsthand and are visibly excited to be winning.
Lawrence is a given to stay, I just hope they find a way to keep Julian Love. He may be the one they have no choice but to let walk.
And when you're in your window, you go for it. Anything else would be ridiculous.
Barkley is a top 5 back, you can't let him go.
This. We are in the window now.
Hard to imagine there's room for both Saquon *and* Barkley.
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will be back I don't doubt that for a second.
Hard to imagine there's room for both Saquon *and* Barkley.
Need to pay Dexter and AT soon too.
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A QB's best friends are WRs and a dependable OL.
RBs...JFC.
You think removing Barkley from the equation and this offense doesn’t regress? People make it sound like Barkley is Jerome Bettis. He does so much more in the passing game.
Next year? If so, no, I'm not worried about the offense if SB is removed. He's a terrific RB, but he's who is oft injured. And I trust Schoen and Daboll to find players. Daboll saw first hand in New England how to transition from RB to RB.
I'm more worried about Jones continuing to progress. He is THE KEY to the equation long term. Not a RB, even if it's Barkley.
I feel better now that we have elite no-name receivers... ;)
Look, I'm just not concerned about that position...and probably to a fault. A good QB, a good GM, and a good HC can overcome turnover.
At the right price/contract, maybe.
JS did mention the tag during the bye. Not sure that will play out well.
Jones and Barkley both need to be back with 2nd contracts. Part of fandom is emotional satisfaction and it would just kinda suck if these two only got one year with a competent coaching staff together.
I don’t think I have to worry, though. Barkley and Jones are clearly viewed as the faces of this franchise by ownership. No one lets that kind of cornerstone player walk in their mid-20’s. 3 years for SB would be perfect. I assume Jonesy is getting 5/190 or thereabouts as the going rate got a QB that a team feels it can go all the way with. And after Jones unleashed his best game as a Giant, imo, in his first playoff start, you just have to admit he’s gonna be viewed as that. In fact I’d put it at 100% that Jones gets a 5 year deal this off-season. Barkley, to me, is only slightly less certain - maybe only 90% that the multi year deal gets done. But they’ll tag him if they can’t agree right now.
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But, BUT, he also plays a position that is tough to validate a huge 2nd contract, especially when your QB is getting an even bigger one. His injuries, plus the shelf life for an NFL RB and likelihood a RB remains a premium talent on contract # 2, make it a tough sell.
If you can only pay one, Jones seems like the way to go. But, my dream would be to get creative with both of them and re-sign both. Worst case, it would be great if we could tag Barkley, which keeps him for up to 2 years.
Barkley isn’t just a RB though. He is a force in the passing game. That’s what I think gets ignored too much.
He's a threat in the passing game, but he doesn't get used in the passing game with the frequency that a top receiving RB (like Ekeler, for an obvious example, or Fournette) does. Barkley has some fantastic skills in open space, so he presents an enormous threat as a receiver, that is true; but Daboll/Kafka seemed to use him more like a traditional RB than Shurmur did, for example.
And if you use your RB like a RB, the wear and tear is RB wear and tear. It's just a function of touches. And with Barkley's talent, you obviously want his usage to be at/above 20 touches per game, but that also means that he's going to take hits with that frequency as well. That's what adds up. And RBs don't have reps where they play pattycake with a defender for a few seconds like WRs occasionally do. If a RB is on the field, he's getting into a collision on almost every play.
1). Even though he had a really impactful game this week, I think there are at least a half dozen running backs who would have done at least as well. More importantly, there are, in my opinion, at least 30 who give you the same end result (a win) most of the time. RBs, even when great, have limited impact.
2). More importantly to me, for whatever reason, SB has not played at this level for at least half of the season. If you are going to give him max kind of money he can't be hurt or dogging it or whatever for half the season.
Let's say we give him what we think he wants - $15MM+ per. That is enough for any guard in football not named Quentin Nelson. A great left guard next to Andrew Thomas plus the 32nd best running back in football is a much better run game than SB plus the 32nd best left guard in football. Much, much better. And a better passing game. Use your resources where they matter.
And SB has not been the best offensive player on this team all year. He is not even 2nd. 1st is a battle between AT and DJ and SB is a distant 3rd. Shoot until this week, he has probably been tied with Hodgins since we got him and he started playing well.
People overlook a lot when it comes to Saquon. He is one of the better backs in the league, most people would concede. That he can be a threat in the receiving game most would also confirm as true. But what else is he? He has been a captain and leader of this team since he got here. That might not mean anything to us as fans, but I do think it can factor into negotiations. He is a rile model for young players, one of the hardest workers on the team, and an example of the dedication it takes to be a winner. You want guys like Barkley on the team for more than just production. I wonder how many RBs have as big of a leadership role for their team?
Other positions are generally more important. WR is generally more important. But, WR contracts are insane, and as our own Kenny Golladay proves, it harder to eat a bad WR contract when they don’t produce. Barkley will cost a fraction, give you all he has day in and day out, and won’t cripple the franchise should he decline.
Daboll loves Barkley. Go back and look at the videos made at training camp, and listen to how he talks about him every week Daboll trusts these guys and has a vision for them. I think Barkley’s ask would have to be insane for them not to sign him.
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In comment 15999402 ATL_Giants said:
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Barkley is about to turn 26.
It's not easy to find a starting RB in the NFL over the age of 28.
If we offer Saquan a deal, I just don't want it to be more than 3 yrs. If he demands more than that, via con Dios.
Zeke is an overworked bruiser who is playing well even at his age (now that his workload is reasonable).
SB is shifty with relatively few carries and only takes big hits or uses his power when it’s necessary. If properly managed I don’t think he’ll break down for years.
True, Elliot isn't a good comp. What about Marshall FaulK? He was going pretty strong until age 31. At 32(his last season) his production had all but stopped.
Even if we miss out on a year or two of Barkley's prime, I guess I just don't trust a RB to be healthy after age 30.
We need at least one special talent skill player and our recent history of wrs hasn’t ended up well.
Excluding the obviously foolish DG moves of Golladay / Toney / Tate (can’t believe he was the best of the bunch), great players like Obj, Cruz and Nicks wore down at a young age. Good ones like Shep and Smith did the same.
We are (most likely) going to end the year without a single game missed by a rb. I’m not going to try to count games missed by Johnson, Robinson, Toney, and Shep. My money would be on SB to take care of himself for 4 more seasons while still being under 30
1). Even though he had a really impactful game this week, I think there are at least a half dozen running backs who would have done at least as well. More importantly, there are, in my opinion, at least 30 who give you the same end result (a win) most of the time. RBs, even when great, have limited impact.
2). More importantly to me, for whatever reason, SB has not played at this level for at least half of the season. If you are going to give him max kind of money he can't be hurt or dogging it or whatever for half the season.
Let's say we give him what we think he wants - $15MM+ per. That is enough for any guard in football not named Quentin Nelson. A great left guard next to Andrew Thomas plus the 32nd best running back in football is a much better run game than SB plus the 32nd best left guard in football. Much, much better. And a better passing game. Use your resources where they matter.
And SB has not been the best offensive player on this team all year. He is not even 2nd. 1st is a battle between AT and DJ and SB is a distant 3rd. Shoot until this week, he has probably been tied with Hodgins since we got him and he started playing well.
Interesting thoughts. You hit on a key point about Barkley's diminishing returns. His first half YPC was 4.8. Second half was barely 4 YPC.
A good case can be made SB was the MVP for the first half of the season. Since then, probably DJ. Although after the bye week, our record was 3-5-1, And we haven't won back to back games since mid-October.
But right now DJ is the Giants number one FA concern. Barkley is number 2.
But to think DJ would decline if the Giants and Barkley have issues securing a deal.....I'm not buying that.
These will be 90% a business decision. Money talks and you know what walks.........
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When Barkley was banged up this year, the offense struggled the most all season.
I feel better now that we have elite no-name receivers... ;)
Look, I'm just not concerned about that position...and probably to a fault. A good QB, a good GM, and a good HC can overcome turnover.
Totally agree with you on this point.
Good RBs are to be found everywhere.
The guy who handles the ball on EVERY play, not so much.
a barkley deal similar to the core of the cmc deal is fair because like cmc he's more than a rb, but getting paid at a RB price. if you have to tag him to get there so be it, bc that's the right general AAV anyway. with jones likely destined for an extension as opposed to tag the decision to bring back barkley should be an easy one.
one of the best wrinkles on offense the past few weeks has been getting him more involved in the passing game so i hope that continues - especially letting him run those shallow crossers to the far side of the field.
Good teammates, as far as we know no off the field shenanigans, and humble.
Easy to root for, probably tough for opposing teams to hate!!
I disagree they are a package deal. Barkley can be franchised for 12M, I can almost guarantee they start there.
And as much as I love the idea of keeping Barkley, if he wants to be the #1 paid RB… the FA market is quite stacked this year. IMO.
I always see people wondering why teams don't play to stop Jones on the ground. It's because you can't take away everything. Teams are scared sh#tless of Barkley and taking away Barkley going one way, Jones going the other way AND the passing game simultaneously is almost impossible.
But right now DJ is the Giants number one FA concern. Barkley is number 2.
But to think DJ would decline if the Giants and Barkley have issues securing a deal.....I'm not buying that.
These will be 90% a business decision. Money talks and you know what walks.........
Agreed, especially your point about this package deal non-sense. The real battery mate for a QB is the WR. That is a package deal you'd want to keep together if you have a quality WR1.
If Aaron Jones left Green Bay instead of Davanta Adams, do you think Green Bay has a better record? I certainly do...
I'm sure that it won't be a reason for the team or the agents to change negotiations.
I always see people wondering why teams don't play to stop Jones on the ground. It's because you can't take away everything. Teams are scared sh#tless of Barkley and taking away Barkley going one way, Jones going the other way AND the passing game simultaneously is almost impossible.
This is an interesting point. However, the Ravens don't have a Barkley type RB, yet teams struggle to contain LJax. Same with Allen. Same with Hurts.
My point? It doesn't take a great RB to create that challenge for a defense. It takes the dual threat QB.