Certain posters here were on EVERY FUCKING JONES THREAD BASHING HIM For YEARS, along with DG. Non-stop nonsense.
Some of you act like, so they had an opinion and they were wrong. NO. They were annoying as FUCK and were Relentless with their BS OPINION. Stating an opinion is fine. NON STOP over the top nonsense over and over again is complete HORSESHIT and those posters should be roasted. They acted like they were some sort of expert and had to correct every other poster on how wrong they were on Jones. Please stop defending those annoying as fuck posters.
That said, DJ is certainly NOT a top 5 QB in this league. He has a long way and a lot to prove before that conversation. Extreme, over the top, threads are so annoying.
We can let your last paragraph slide as it is your belief and that’s ok..
As to the rest of your post, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
There were just as many pro-DJ posts on the same very threads, so I don't really see how one side is worse or better than the other side on that front.
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
So in all seriousness, who do you guys what these acknowledgements from? Is it the guy who doesn’t even post on this site any longer? Do you want him to come back and say sorry to you?
So in all seriousness, who do you guys what these acknowledgements from? Is it the guy who doesn’t even post on this site any longer? Do you want him to come back and say sorry to you?
How about, I shouldn’t have jumped the gun. I should have waited to see what Daboll can or cannot do with this guy, I’d like to see if stability (or lack thereof) with his revolving door of HCs and Coordinators was the problem or his injuries or his pathetic protection or all of the above.
I have always acknowledged where I have been incorrect or jumped the gun. It’s really very easy to do.
rehashing of the same EXACT points ad infinitum ad nauseam on every thread, how about giving reasons WHY he is not our guy? “He sucks, he’s at best a back-up, worst QB in the league,” etc., doesn’t cut it with me as a person who likes to debate/discuss with points, not poison. I suspect a bunch of others feel the same.
Why didn’t I have a problem with you, christian? Because even though we were
retty much at the opposite ends of the DJ pole, you ALWAYS gave your reasons.
REASONS, that’s all we ask. Those that did, I did not consider insufferable unless they repeated those reasons 50 times a day, every day for years. We’re not stupid, we GOT IT! You were not a fan of DJ, that’s fine. It was always just fine
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable. Now that their whole thought process is unraveling and they’re being called out, they can’t handle it. So now we get soapbox lectures from some of you telling us to.” just enjoy the team” or “ let’s not get carried away” or “ we are all fans of the same team”. Or he’ll just make unfunny jokes or cry and ask” what do you want, an apology?” Again where were all of these lectures from some of you over the past three years of bullshit? Oh, yeah, you were the ones causing it.
I’ll tell you this much, these haters are a sensitive bunch of fucks.
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
Some of you guessed right, and I guessed wrong. I wanted the Giants to move on from Jones, because I didn’t think he had it in him to compete for a championship. That clearly proved to be incorrect.
If some of you need a formal apology, post your details. I’m sure we can come up with something to make you feel better.
If I “want” anything, it’s a simple acknowledgement that opinions are not absolutes or facts (revisionists deny having done that)..MANY, not just some, stated their disdain for DJ as just that..
C'mon Bruce, you are better than this. You see christian's statement above. He admits his assessment of DJ was wrong. This is an opinion message board. Nothing is more than opinion. To harp on the BS of opinion stated as fact is intellectually dishonest, because you are or were too lazy to find evidence to support your POV. Hurray for you, you happened to be right about one of your opinions. Do you need an Applebee's gift card as well. How many times has those who share your opinion stated something as fact? Just as often as the "other side" did I would wager. Just check ryan's posts on this thread. He flat out states that many of his fictitious claims are indeed FACT. Why are you not calling him out on those statements which are far more blatant?
Certain posters here were on EVERY FUCKING JONES THREAD BASHING HIM For YEARS, along with DG. Non-stop nonsense.
Some of you act like, so they had an opinion and they were wrong. NO. They were annoying as FUCK and were Relentless with their BS OPINION. Stating an opinion is fine. NON STOP over the top nonsense over and over again is complete HORSESHIT and those posters should be roasted. They acted like they were some sort of expert and had to correct every other poster on how wrong they were on Jones. Please stop defending those annoying as fuck posters.
That said, DJ is certainly NOT a top 5 QB in this league. He has a long way and a lot to prove before that conversation. Extreme, over the top, threads are so annoying.
More proof that the DJ wars are a proxy for the DG wars!
And you think that "your side" hasn't done the same?
FOR YEARS!
And was and still is wrong about DG!
So in all seriousness, who do you guys what these acknowledgements from? Is it the guy who doesn’t even post on this site any longer? Do you want him to come back and say sorry to you?
How about, I shouldn’t have jumped the gun. I should have waited to see what Daboll can or cannot do with this guy, I’d like to see if stability (or lack thereof) with his revolving door of HCs and Coordinators was the problem or his injuries or his pathetic protection or all of the above.
I have always acknowledged where I have been incorrect or jumped the gun. It’s really very easy to do.
I posted a whole series of comments by critics admitting that they now believe in DJ.
Do you need a pint of blood?
The polyannas got 1 thing right over the past decade and about 99 things wrong.
And the pessimist are widely admitting they were wrong.
For god's sakes, you have the admissions!
Why are people on this thread still trying to push the Narrative that DG "deserves credit", DG is "vindicated", DG wasn't really bad. Seriously. Have a little self awareness.
you so crowd...there were legit concerns on DJ. I have stated my concerns numerous times - lack of completing drives with TDs and failure to make end game drives to tie or wins games. Jones seems to have corrected that, so I am back on the train.
Yes, those that were adamant about Jones lack of ability to be anything more than a backup or low tier starter because they deemed themselves to be QB gurus were no doubt annoying and thread derailers. But it appears that Daboll has been able to bring out Jones' ability. Many have accepted that Jones was better than they thought. A few hang on. There does not need to be a litany of "I told you so" threads.
Whatever happened to gracious in victory? Does there need to be derision for those that were wrong about Jones ability. No, there does not. Gloating is not necessary. And before we get to far along, let's see if DJ can maintain his recent successes.
It is best to ignore the obvious trolls and move on. BBI is better with some opposing POVs - or else it becomes boring.
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
It's true that the DJFC crowd was pretty small, but so was the true 'hater' crowd. Think they were about the same size and about the same level of annoying.
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable. Now that their whole thought process is unraveling and they’re being called out, they can’t handle it. So now we get soapbox lectures from some of you telling us to.” just enjoy the team” or “ let’s not get carried away” or “ we are all fans of the same team”. Or he’ll just make unfunny jokes or cry and ask” what do you want, an apology?” Again where were all of these lectures from some of you over the past three years of bullshit? Oh, yeah, you were the ones causing it.
I’ll tell you this much, these haters are a sensitive bunch of fucks.
This entire reaction to my post proves my point really. Very thoughtful response.
One: 3 yrs, $35-38M per, around $70M guaranteed; 4 yrs & more $ if he beats Eagles
2nd: 2yr, $21-23M per yr bridge deal
3rd: Deals like Kyler Murray’s ($46.1M per, $160M g’d) make it hard to keep price down
...
christian : 1/18/2023 11:00 am : link : reply
I'm confused. Did the ex-GMs come up with those options?
- He is clearly talking about 1 and 3.
If so, I have a feeling I know why at least 2 are ex-GMs.
Right now, it's probably #1 ballpark
JonC : 1/18/2023 11:07 am : link : reply
Recent performance, a playoff win, and Murray's contract will all push Jones' value higher.
Patterson
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 11:09 am : link : reply
Agreed, what ever happens Saturday won’t lower the price. There is only upside.
After the last three wins
JonC : 1/18/2023 11:11 am : link : reply
and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
It's no secret...
bw in dc : 1/18/2023 11:16 am : link : reply
I have been very critical of Jones's play, but if I put my business cap on, there is NFW that Team Jones should sign a multi-year deal that is < $35M AAV. They know they have that already in the non-EFT.
The guy looks like he's morphing into one of the top dual threats QBs in the league. That running ability is plus-plus right now.
So, from a pure business standpoint, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it's an AAV of $40M and $100-$150M guaranteed. In other words, I can't see a bridge deal here...
RE: It's no secret...
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 11:19 am : link : reply
That’s why I think it ends up at 3 years, $70 million guaranteed. Basically guarantees two tag years, and if this is the Jones we see next year they’re ripping that third year up and signing a a deal that keeps him a Giant until he’s in his mid 30s.
RE: RE: I think people forgot that
allstarjim : 1/18/2023 12:10 pm : link : reply
This would have been an unthinkable discussion for me 6 weeks or so ago, but if you go the exclusive rights franchise tag, we're talking about a 1-year deal in the neighborhood of $45 million, right?
<snipped>
All-in-all, DJ's recent play has elevated what his cost will be, which will likely effect the approach to Saquon.
RE: RE: RE: ...
chick310 : 1/18/2023 2:02 pm : link : reply
No, we hope the Giants win and Jones is one of the reasons why.
<snipped>
those are all quotes just from 1 thread today.
There have been others where GD, TTH and Produce have praised Jones.
Nice job McL putting all those recent posts together on Daniel Jones on this topic before they reach the archives.
You-know-who joined this thread, and since he has a penchant to purposely alter posts from time to time to support his own gaslighting, abusive behavior you never what could happen next.
I’m not a big fan of posters jamming up the board with repetitive posts, especially when it doesn’t seem the intent is to actually debate. That’s not good for the community, no matter the perspective presented.
The whole value proposition on positive or negative is lame. So is the need for an apology or permission to gloat.
I’m still skeptical of giving Jones a big commitment off one good year. If the Giants do, and he fizzles, do any of you who disagree owe me an apology and should I gloat in your face? Of course not.
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable. Now that their whole thought process is unraveling and they’re being called out, they can’t handle it. So now we get soapbox lectures from some of you telling us to.” just enjoy the team” or “ let’s not get carried away” or “ we are all fans of the same team”. Or he’ll just make unfunny jokes or cry and ask” what do you want, an apology?” Again where were all of these lectures from some of you over the past three years of bullshit? Oh, yeah, you were the ones causing it.
I’ll tell you this much, these haters are a sensitive bunch of fucks.
It was "miserable" for you because others did not share your opinion, and either you could not, or were too lazy, to gather enough evidence to give your opinion enough weight.
I felt that the people you are railing against were being too harsh, and were not giving enough weight to the mitigating circumstances. I was glad that he would get one more shot under this set of coaches. I felt it was a decision that had no downside. The team needed a QB for the year, DJ was still cheap, and there were no other appealing choices. So, best thing to do was to give DJ one more chance. I never had a shred of evidence to support that opinion. So I stayed quiet. There was certainly evidence of 3 years of something less than good play from him. There is plenty of precedent that most QBs with that resume enting year 4 will either fail or be out of chances. Other than to say that the team did a lousy job of putting the pieces in place around him to help make him successful, what else is there. There is no evidence to say he will be good. It is a difficult argument to make with so little evidence.
Lastly, lets be clear about this. The fact that DJ has been having success under a new regime does not "vindicate" DG at all. It just further proves his incompetence at team building that he could not find a a group of good enough OL, receivers and coaches for 3 years to help make DJ successful. He spent invested the #6 pick in the draft for him, and nothing to help him.
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
It's true that the DJFC crowd was pretty small, but so was the true 'hater' crowd. Think they were about the same size and about the same level of annoying.
Agree the hater crowd was pretty small. I find most pretty fair to the Jones debate and opinions can vary here. Some see faults more than others. Others see more around him being the biggest factors. This of course could change as seasons play out. Gamedays can bring out more emotion.
I was talking more in general with condescending tone from some which is also includes some who also like to use the DJFC.
I still think DJ's journey is far from over and can still go a lot of ways. In this franchise don't expect too many pats on the back till your standing at the end. Good play will only get you so far but pleased with a lot of steps he has made. It's going to take a really good team to give him the best chance.
both side have for the most part converged to the same opinion of DJ. Mostly.
He has done well recently. He is still not a top 5 QB, YET. There is still more to prove. There is still room for growth. He has played well enough to deserve a contract for a few more years.
I really don't see any serious opinions that differ significantly from that set. So what the hell are we debating here other than some people got their feelings hurt on an internet opinion message board. For christs sakes, my opinion was closer to yours coming into the season, and I find the whining and gloating more fucking annoying than any of the DJ debate threads.
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable.
Cooper - how many years do you feel this went on making you miserable?
McL, again, you are not understanding the overarching point of all of this. Because you guys are so sensitive to being wrong about Jones, you can’t handle it when people call you out for your nonsense.
If you don’t want to be called out for posting stuff on a message board that ends up being categorically incorrect, don’t post on a message board.
It’s like if you picked the Packers to win the Super Bowl this year and they ended up being pretty bad. Most of us are going to say “well hey that was pretty fucking stupid wasn’t it?” And you’d say things like “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…” instead of admitting that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
This is hands down your best contribution to the site, and an early candidate for post of the year.
Only a fool would take a statistical output (say number of rushes and yards per carry) and manufacture some causal or predictive value narrative, without understanding the circumstances around the data.
Never cared for and won’t ever care for I told you so threads/posts
they are lame. However, their number is small compared to the hordes of the opposite. Day after day it was the same threads with the same posts over and over. It was like being message board bludgeoned to death. It reached a point were I got numb to it and avoided them for the most part, just became and unproductive pissing match and a battle of whoever surprised the longest.
There’s some good advice above, I only wish people took that advice years ago and chilled out a bit, myself included at times. Enjoy DJ playing well, move on.
RE: Never cared for and won’t ever care for I told you so threads/posts
they are lame. However, their number is small compared to the hordes of the opposite. Day after day it was the same threads with the same posts over and over. It was like being message board bludgeoned to death. It reached a point were I got numb to it and avoided them for the most part, just became and unproductive pissing match and a battle of whoever surprised the longest.
There’s some good advice above, I only wish people took that advice years ago and chilled out a bit, myself included at times. Enjoy DJ playing well, move on.
And why I needed to take a Sabbatical the last few years. The insufferability (not differences of opinion) was insufferable..:)
UConn — I agree with the volume point. In retrospect, I think I was less annoyed by it, because it was a view I agreed with. If it were a view I didn’t agree with or was neutral on, I’d probably be annoyed. That’s a little hypocritical on my part.
Who declined DJ’s 5th year option while being fully aware of Jones’ work habits and character?
And about the pro DJ side, what’s really annoying about then is their willingness to throw all other players under the bus to justify their view. Slayton is a Giant, too. There was a scent of idolatry about the whole thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.
Who declined DJ’s 5th year option while being fully aware of Jones’ work habits and character?
And about the pro DJ side, what’s really annoying about then is their willingness to throw all other players under the bus to justify their view. Slayton is a Giant, too. There was a scent of idolatry about the whole thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.
No, that’s called a prudent move by a new GM who took on a cap mess and had no actual experience with the QB he inherited, nor did the coaching staff. And in the end he took a gamble on the 5th year option or the Tag which sure is costly but not really if he’s your guy.
As for Slayton he absolutely shit the bed in some big moments this year. That’s irrefutable. I never really saw anyone say Slayton drops are why Jones isn’t a top tier QB, rather, our WR corps as a whole is underwhelming and a larger reason for why the offense isn’t potent enough. You can add in Engram for years prior, his drops were catastrophic.
Two things can be true at the same time - DJ isn’t a top tier QB and the WR unit needs a big upgrade. I’m fairly certain this is where most “DJFC” people sit.
And about the pro DJ side, what’s really annoying about then is their willingness to throw all other players under the bus to justify their view. Slayton is a Giant, too. There was a scent of idolatry about the whole thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.
Again, wrong. Making up bullshit to prove an argument that doesn't exist. Can't speak for everyone else but I've supported Slayton through the years while realizing that he's a limited 3rd option who struggles to make contested catches and has some brutal drops a lot of the time. That being said, he's a good Giant and has put in the work. Doesn't change the fact that our WR group is towards the bottom of the league.
Just because that's a fact doesn't mean we are "throwing Slayton under the bus."
Would love to have Slayton back on this team, he's a guy that can really make a big difference with a #1 type option out there. But if you have to throw him the ball a lot, it is very up and down.
Schoen didn't pick up Jones' option. That was definitely the right move at the time.
That being said, if anyone was actually listening to anything he was saying in a lot of those interviews post his introduction as GM, you could tell he liked him a lot. He even named him specifically as a core player you can build around with. Let's not act like Jones magically reversed course and it came out of absolutely nowhere that he could play like this. Schoen and Daboll likely knew they could get really good play out of this guy.
The defense of DJ has always involved criticizing everyone else around him. It was ungenerous. Everyone on the 2021 Giants was being dragged down by a dysfunctional environment. Thomas, Slayton, Barkley. Everyone.
And if Schoen didn’t exercise the option because he had to get to know Jones better, why did he exercise Dexter’s?
Occam’s razor: Dex flashed ability, but Schoen had real issues with Jones’ performance.
The defense of DJ has always involved criticizing everyone else around him. It was ungenerous. Everyone on the 2021 Giants was being dragged down by a dysfunctional environment. Thomas, Slayton, Barkley. Everyone.
You do realize that Thomas and Barkley are all pros right? What are you talking about? The only idiots who thought Thomas and Barkley sucked are no longer posting here.
UConn — I agree with the volume point. In retrospect, I think I was less annoyed by it, because it was a view I agreed with. If it were a view I didn’t agree with or was neutral on, I’d probably be annoyed. That’s a little hypocritical on my part.
Thank you, that’s what I was offering as my chief complaint. Per usual, you said it more succinctly Than I did
cosmic, Gettleman signed Nate Solder to be Daniel Jones' left tackle, and then he actually moved him to right tackle which might have been even worse.
You might as well put me at left tackle and the performance would have been the same.
Anyone with a quarter of a brain would admit that the OL was an unmitigated disaster under Gettleman, and that Jones had next to no chance to be awesome right away, except the Thomas pick obviously which needed a year or two to really shine.
UConn — I agree with the volume point. In retrospect, I think I was less annoyed by it, because it was a view I agreed with. If it were a view I didn’t agree with or was neutral on, I’d probably be annoyed. That’s a little hypocritical on my part.
Thank you, that’s what I was offering as my chief complaint. Per usual, you said it more succinctly Than I did
Good lesson for all of us to self reflect time-to-time and make sure our intent and behavior is a positive contribution to the community.
The defense of DJ has always involved criticizing everyone else around him. It was ungenerous. Everyone on the 2021 Giants was being dragged down by a dysfunctional environment. Thomas, Slayton, Barkley. Everyone.
And if Schoen didn’t exercise the option because he had to get to know Jones better, why did he exercise Dexter’s?
Occam’s razor: Dex flashed ability, but Schoen had real issues with Jones’ performance.
To me, kind of simple. Dex was a solid contributor an not an issue per se. DJ was looked at as a potential franchise guy, meriting a much closer look per my prior comments. Too, Dex would not be costing us a higher percentage of our cap moving forward. DJ potentially would cost nearly 4x what Dex would. Finding good DTs is not as hard as finding your next franchise QB
The defense of DJ has always involved criticizing everyone else around him. It was ungenerous. Everyone on the 2021 Giants was being dragged down by a dysfunctional environment. Thomas, Slayton, Barkley. Everyone.
And if Schoen didn’t exercise the option because he had to get to know Jones better, why did he exercise Dexter’s?
Occam’s razor: Dex flashed ability, but Schoen had real issues with Jones’ performance.
Exactly right. The folks who love to berate everyone else for not using "facts" rationalize this away with asinine arguments like "Schoen really liked DJ and saw him as a core player" but needed to see more. Seriously? Can you imagine the outrage if Scheon hadn't exercised DL's option last year because he wanted to "see more"? It is unequivocal. Schoen had real concerns with DJ and his actions speak volumes more than anything he may have said to the press. But he is no more of a DJ hater than anyone else. Just a sensible GM doing sensible things.
And the cost consequence of not exercising DJ's option is monumental to this franchise. The argument that this approach was somehow just "part of his plan" is revisionist history. If he could go back in time, he would absolutely exercise that option. As would anyone else on this board.
McL, again, you are not understanding the overarching point of all of this. Because you guys are so sensitive to being wrong about Jones, you can’t handle it when people call you out for your nonsense.
If you don’t want to be called out for posting stuff on a message board that ends up being categorically incorrect, don’t post on a message board.
It’s like if you picked the Packers to win the Super Bowl this year and they ended up being pretty bad. Most of us are going to say “well hey that was pretty fucking stupid wasn’t it?” And you’d say things like “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…” instead of admitting that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
Have some self awareness ryan...
Isn't “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…" an admission that there was a flaw in their opinion? They thought these aspect would be better for whatever reasons...
You want absolutesself immolation, but you in turn cannot say DG was bad without a but...
Lol, you guys are “both sides-ing” the DJ debate now?? Wow, shocking.
Who the fuck is "you guys"?
My opinion was actually closer to yours, and I while I found the whole thing not worth my time to read through all the debate, when I did read stuff, I found both sides insufferable but your even more so. Your side would initiate the threads with stuff like "how long will it take for the DJ haters to come and say blah blah blah". You guys instigated and literally asked for it.
that just isn’t true. Not picking up his 5th year is not a monumental mistake - it was a calculated move where if the best case scenario happened (and it seems like it did) you’d have the tag to fall back on if a deal can’t be met. And you actually have two tag options as well.
A monumental mistake is what Carolina did with Darnold - they traded for him and a few weeks later picked up his 5th year option without ever seeing what he can do for them.
And if your sole argument is playing the go back in time game
then it’s just not something worth discussing. GMs don’t get that liberty and Schoens job was to mitigate future risk. He did just that and the Giants are better off for it. If they have to pay their franchise QB a bit more as a result, so be it. He won’t be paying him if he doesn’t think he can win with him.
Schoen didn't pick up Jones' option. That was definitely the right move at the time.
That being said, if anyone was actually listening to anything he was saying in a lot of those interviews post his introduction as GM, you could tell he liked him a lot. He even named him specifically as a core player you can build around with. Let's not act like Jones magically reversed course and it came out of absolutely nowhere that he could play like this. Schoen and Daboll likely knew they could get really good play out of this guy.
Seriously, what is Shoen going to say after making that decision.
"Yeah, I'm rolling with the guy because I don't have another reasonable choice, but the guy sucks!"? Of course he is going to say positive things, it means nothing.
The defense of DJ has always involved criticizing everyone else around him. It was ungenerous. Everyone on the 2021 Giants was being dragged down by a dysfunctional environment. Thomas, Slayton, Barkley. Everyone.
You do realize that Thomas and Barkley are all pros right? What are you talking about? The only idiots who thought Thomas and Barkley sucked are no longer posting here.
Barkley sucked until this year. I know that i not a popular opinion, but that is mine and I am still here.
My criteria for being a "good" RB is different from most here. Mine starts with not getting stuffed so many times.
But, hey most disagree, that's life.
I'm still here and I have said, and will continue to say that Barkley had an excellent season. By far his best. He deserves the accolades for what he has done this year.
McL, again, you are not understanding the overarching point of all of this. Because you guys are so sensitive to being wrong about Jones, you can’t handle it when people call you out for your nonsense.
If you don’t want to be called out for posting stuff on a message board that ends up being categorically incorrect, don’t post on a message board.
It’s like if you picked the Packers to win the Super Bowl this year and they ended up being pretty bad. Most of us are going to say “well hey that was pretty fucking stupid wasn’t it?” And you’d say things like “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…” instead of admitting that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
LOL. This is funny coming from you. You are throwing lies into this thread to exaggerate your point. I would call that nonsense.
I am still skeptical of giving Jones a huge contract. I hope he really has turned the corner. If Jones gets his $200M and sputters, are you going to admit you were wrong? Of course not, you will continue to blame everyone else on the team.
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
This is hands down your best contribution to the site, and an early candidate for post of the year.
Only a fool would take a statistical output (say number of rushes and yards per carry) and manufacture some causal or predictive value narrative, without understanding the circumstances around the data.
But I understand the data and what it suggests. It tells me I am winning or at least favorably competing on the LOS and controlling the TOP battle. That I am ahead of the chains and this will help the QB, OL and WR's. Then they can dictate to the defense and not sit in those bad down/distance situations that seems to expose some of this teams vulnerable positions. Put a good defense on the other side and I am liking my chances.
You should consider also liking the Giants chances if it plays out this way Saturday night. Good chance the game is going to end no?
Some of you act like, so they had an opinion and they were wrong. NO. They were annoying as FUCK and were Relentless with their BS OPINION. Stating an opinion is fine. NON STOP over the top nonsense over and over again is complete HORSESHIT and those posters should be roasted. They acted like they were some sort of expert and had to correct every other poster on how wrong they were on Jones. Please stop defending those annoying as fuck posters.
That said, DJ is certainly NOT a top 5 QB in this league. He has a long way and a lot to prove before that conversation. Extreme, over the top, threads are so annoying.
We can let your last paragraph slide as it is your belief and that’s ok..
As to the rest of your post, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
That’s EXACTLY what happened..EXACTLY.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
How about, I shouldn’t have jumped the gun. I should have waited to see what Daboll can or cannot do with this guy, I’d like to see if stability (or lack thereof) with his revolving door of HCs and Coordinators was the problem or his injuries or his pathetic protection or all of the above.
I have always acknowledged where I have been incorrect or jumped the gun. It’s really very easy to do.
Why didn’t I have a problem with you, christian? Because even though we were
retty much at the opposite ends of the DJ pole, you ALWAYS gave your reasons.
REASONS, that’s all we ask. Those that did, I did not consider insufferable unless they repeated those reasons 50 times a day, every day for years. We’re not stupid, we GOT IT! You were not a fan of DJ, that’s fine. It was always just fine
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable. Now that their whole thought process is unraveling and they’re being called out, they can’t handle it. So now we get soapbox lectures from some of you telling us to.” just enjoy the team” or “ let’s not get carried away” or “ we are all fans of the same team”. Or he’ll just make unfunny jokes or cry and ask” what do you want, an apology?” Again where were all of these lectures from some of you over the past three years of bullshit? Oh, yeah, you were the ones causing it.
I’ll tell you this much, these haters are a sensitive bunch of fucks.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
Quote:
Some of you guessed right, and I guessed wrong. I wanted the Giants to move on from Jones, because I didn’t think he had it in him to compete for a championship. That clearly proved to be incorrect.
If some of you need a formal apology, post your details. I’m sure we can come up with something to make you feel better.
If I “want” anything, it’s a simple acknowledgement that opinions are not absolutes or facts (revisionists deny having done that)..MANY, not just some, stated their disdain for DJ as just that..
C'mon Bruce, you are better than this. You see christian's statement above. He admits his assessment of DJ was wrong. This is an opinion message board. Nothing is more than opinion. To harp on the BS of opinion stated as fact is intellectually dishonest, because you are or were too lazy to find evidence to support your POV. Hurray for you, you happened to be right about one of your opinions. Do you need an Applebee's gift card as well. How many times has those who share your opinion stated something as fact? Just as often as the "other side" did I would wager. Just check ryan's posts on this thread. He flat out states that many of his fictitious claims are indeed FACT. Why are you not calling him out on those statements which are far more blatant?
Some of you act like, so they had an opinion and they were wrong. NO. They were annoying as FUCK and were Relentless with their BS OPINION. Stating an opinion is fine. NON STOP over the top nonsense over and over again is complete HORSESHIT and those posters should be roasted. They acted like they were some sort of expert and had to correct every other poster on how wrong they were on Jones. Please stop defending those annoying as fuck posters.
That said, DJ is certainly NOT a top 5 QB in this league. He has a long way and a lot to prove before that conversation. Extreme, over the top, threads are so annoying.
More proof that the DJ wars are a proxy for the DG wars!
And you think that "your side" hasn't done the same?
FOR YEARS!
And was and still is wrong about DG!
Grow up!
Quote:
So in all seriousness, who do you guys what these acknowledgements from? Is it the guy who doesn’t even post on this site any longer? Do you want him to come back and say sorry to you?
How about, I shouldn’t have jumped the gun. I should have waited to see what Daboll can or cannot do with this guy, I’d like to see if stability (or lack thereof) with his revolving door of HCs and Coordinators was the problem or his injuries or his pathetic protection or all of the above.
I have always acknowledged where I have been incorrect or jumped the gun. It’s really very easy to do.
I posted a whole series of comments by critics admitting that they now believe in DJ.
Do you need a pint of blood?
The polyannas got 1 thing right over the past decade and about 99 things wrong.
And the pessimist are widely admitting they were wrong.
For god's sakes, you have the admissions!
Why are people on this thread still trying to push the Narrative that DG "deserves credit", DG is "vindicated", DG wasn't really bad. Seriously. Have a little self awareness.
Yes, those that were adamant about Jones lack of ability to be anything more than a backup or low tier starter because they deemed themselves to be QB gurus were no doubt annoying and thread derailers. But it appears that Daboll has been able to bring out Jones' ability. Many have accepted that Jones was better than they thought. A few hang on. There does not need to be a litany of "I told you so" threads.
Whatever happened to gracious in victory? Does there need to be derision for those that were wrong about Jones ability. No, there does not. Gloating is not necessary. And before we get to far along, let's see if DJ can maintain his recent successes.
It is best to ignore the obvious trolls and move on. BBI is better with some opposing POVs - or else it becomes boring.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
It's true that the DJFC crowd was pretty small, but so was the true 'hater' crowd. Think they were about the same size and about the same level of annoying.
Quote:
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable. Now that their whole thought process is unraveling and they’re being called out, they can’t handle it. So now we get soapbox lectures from some of you telling us to.” just enjoy the team” or “ let’s not get carried away” or “ we are all fans of the same team”. Or he’ll just make unfunny jokes or cry and ask” what do you want, an apology?” Again where were all of these lectures from some of you over the past three years of bullshit? Oh, yeah, you were the ones causing it.
I’ll tell you this much, these haters are a sensitive bunch of fucks.
This entire reaction to my post proves my point really. Very thoughtful response.
Others have.
Quote:
One: 3 yrs, $35-38M per, around $70M guaranteed; 4 yrs & more $ if he beats Eagles
2nd: 2yr, $21-23M per yr bridge deal
3rd: Deals like Kyler Murray’s ($46.1M per, $160M g’d) make it hard to keep price down
...
christian : 1/18/2023 11:00 am : link : reply
I'm confused. Did the ex-GMs come up with those options?
- He is clearly talking about 1 and 3.
If so, I have a feeling I know why at least 2 are ex-GMs.
Right now, it's probably #1 ballpark
JonC : 1/18/2023 11:07 am : link : reply
Recent performance, a playoff win, and Murray's contract will all push Jones' value higher.
Patterson
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 11:09 am : link : reply
Agreed, what ever happens Saturday won’t lower the price. There is only upside.
After the last three wins
JonC : 1/18/2023 11:11 am : link : reply
and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
It's no secret...
bw in dc : 1/18/2023 11:16 am : link : reply
I have been very critical of Jones's play, but if I put my business cap on, there is NFW that Team Jones should sign a multi-year deal that is < $35M AAV. They know they have that already in the non-EFT.
The guy looks like he's morphing into one of the top dual threats QBs in the league. That running ability is plus-plus right now.
So, from a pure business standpoint, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it's an AAV of $40M and $100-$150M guaranteed. In other words, I can't see a bridge deal here...
RE: It's no secret...
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 11:19 am : link : reply
That’s why I think it ends up at 3 years, $70 million guaranteed. Basically guarantees two tag years, and if this is the Jones we see next year they’re ripping that third year up and signing a a deal that keeps him a Giant until he’s in his mid 30s.
RE: RE: I think people forgot that
allstarjim : 1/18/2023 12:10 pm : link : reply
This would have been an unthinkable discussion for me 6 weeks or so ago, but if you go the exclusive rights franchise tag, we're talking about a 1-year deal in the neighborhood of $45 million, right?
<snipped>
All-in-all, DJ's recent play has elevated what his cost will be, which will likely effect the approach to Saquon.
RE: RE: RE: ...
chick310 : 1/18/2023 2:02 pm : link : reply
No, we hope the Giants win and Jones is one of the reasons why.
<snipped>
those are all quotes just from 1 thread today.
There have been others where GD, TTH and Produce have praised Jones.
Nice job McL putting all those recent posts together on Daniel Jones on this topic before they reach the archives.
You-know-who joined this thread, and since he has a penchant to purposely alter posts from time to time to support his own gaslighting, abusive behavior you never what could happen next.
The whole value proposition on positive or negative is lame. So is the need for an apology or permission to gloat.
I’m still skeptical of giving Jones a big commitment off one good year. If the Giants do, and he fizzles, do any of you who disagree owe me an apology and should I gloat in your face? Of course not.
Quote:
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable. Now that their whole thought process is unraveling and they’re being called out, they can’t handle it. So now we get soapbox lectures from some of you telling us to.” just enjoy the team” or “ let’s not get carried away” or “ we are all fans of the same team”. Or he’ll just make unfunny jokes or cry and ask” what do you want, an apology?” Again where were all of these lectures from some of you over the past three years of bullshit? Oh, yeah, you were the ones causing it.
I’ll tell you this much, these haters are a sensitive bunch of fucks.
It was "miserable" for you because others did not share your opinion, and either you could not, or were too lazy, to gather enough evidence to give your opinion enough weight.
I felt that the people you are railing against were being too harsh, and were not giving enough weight to the mitigating circumstances. I was glad that he would get one more shot under this set of coaches. I felt it was a decision that had no downside. The team needed a QB for the year, DJ was still cheap, and there were no other appealing choices. So, best thing to do was to give DJ one more chance. I never had a shred of evidence to support that opinion. So I stayed quiet. There was certainly evidence of 3 years of something less than good play from him. There is plenty of precedent that most QBs with that resume enting year 4 will either fail or be out of chances. Other than to say that the team did a lousy job of putting the pieces in place around him to help make him successful, what else is there. There is no evidence to say he will be good. It is a difficult argument to make with so little evidence.
Lastly, lets be clear about this. The fact that DJ has been having success under a new regime does not "vindicate" DG at all. It just further proves his incompetence at team building that he could not find a a group of good enough OL, receivers and coaches for 3 years to help make DJ successful. He spent invested the #6 pick in the draft for him, and nothing to help him.
Quote:
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
It's true that the DJFC crowd was pretty small, but so was the true 'hater' crowd. Think they were about the same size and about the same level of annoying.
Agree the hater crowd was pretty small. I find most pretty fair to the Jones debate and opinions can vary here. Some see faults more than others. Others see more around him being the biggest factors. This of course could change as seasons play out. Gamedays can bring out more emotion.
I was talking more in general with condescending tone from some which is also includes some who also like to use the DJFC.
I still think DJ's journey is far from over and can still go a lot of ways. In this franchise don't expect too many pats on the back till your standing at the end. Good play will only get you so far but pleased with a lot of steps he has made. It's going to take a really good team to give him the best chance.
He has done well recently. He is still not a top 5 QB, YET. There is still more to prove. There is still room for growth. He has played well enough to deserve a contract for a few more years.
I really don't see any serious opinions that differ significantly from that set. So what the hell are we debating here other than some people got their feelings hurt on an internet opinion message board. For christs sakes, my opinion was closer to yours coming into the season, and I find the whining and gloating more fucking annoying than any of the DJ debate threads.
Quote:
There were many, many, many 'iN bE4 TeRpS CoMeS iN bAsHiNg JoNeS hurdurdur' posts before Terps or other 'haters' were even commenting in every thread about DJ as well.
The DJFC crowd can gloat to a certain extend. Fair enough. But they are definitely should not be throwing stones about 'civil discourse' or anything like that.
Oh, I’m so glad that you say that the DJFC crowd can gloat to a “certain extent”. Lol, what a condescending common.
But let me get this straight - you feel that the posts supporting our QB are equally as annoying as the droves of emotional, irrational, void of logic, negative posts about our QB?
The reality is that a lot of these haters spent years railing away and making this place miserable.
Cooper - how many years do you feel this went on making you miserable?
If you don’t want to be called out for posting stuff on a message board that ends up being categorically incorrect, don’t post on a message board.
It’s like if you picked the Packers to win the Super Bowl this year and they ended up being pretty bad. Most of us are going to say “well hey that was pretty fucking stupid wasn’t it?” And you’d say things like “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…” instead of admitting that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
This is hands down your best contribution to the site, and an early candidate for post of the year.
Only a fool would take a statistical output (say number of rushes and yards per carry) and manufacture some causal or predictive value narrative, without understanding the circumstances around the data.
There’s some good advice above, I only wish people took that advice years ago and chilled out a bit, myself included at times. Enjoy DJ playing well, move on.
There’s some good advice above, I only wish people took that advice years ago and chilled out a bit, myself included at times. Enjoy DJ playing well, move on.
And why I needed to take a Sabbatical the last few years. The insufferability (not differences of opinion) was insufferable..:)
And about the pro DJ side, what’s really annoying about then is their willingness to throw all other players under the bus to justify their view. Slayton is a Giant, too. There was a scent of idolatry about the whole thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.
And about the pro DJ side, what’s really annoying about then is their willingness to throw all other players under the bus to justify their view. Slayton is a Giant, too. There was a scent of idolatry about the whole thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.
No, that’s called a prudent move by a new GM who took on a cap mess and had no actual experience with the QB he inherited, nor did the coaching staff. And in the end he took a gamble on the 5th year option or the Tag which sure is costly but not really if he’s your guy.
As for Slayton he absolutely shit the bed in some big moments this year. That’s irrefutable. I never really saw anyone say Slayton drops are why Jones isn’t a top tier QB, rather, our WR corps as a whole is underwhelming and a larger reason for why the offense isn’t potent enough. You can add in Engram for years prior, his drops were catastrophic.
Two things can be true at the same time - DJ isn’t a top tier QB and the WR unit needs a big upgrade. I’m fairly certain this is where most “DJFC” people sit.
And about the pro DJ side, what’s really annoying about then is their willingness to throw all other players under the bus to justify their view. Slayton is a Giant, too. There was a scent of idolatry about the whole thing that really rubbed me the wrong way.
Again, wrong. Making up bullshit to prove an argument that doesn't exist. Can't speak for everyone else but I've supported Slayton through the years while realizing that he's a limited 3rd option who struggles to make contested catches and has some brutal drops a lot of the time. That being said, he's a good Giant and has put in the work. Doesn't change the fact that our WR group is towards the bottom of the league.
Just because that's a fact doesn't mean we are "throwing Slayton under the bus."
That being said, if anyone was actually listening to anything he was saying in a lot of those interviews post his introduction as GM, you could tell he liked him a lot. He even named him specifically as a core player you can build around with. Let's not act like Jones magically reversed course and it came out of absolutely nowhere that he could play like this. Schoen and Daboll likely knew they could get really good play out of this guy.
And if Schoen didn’t exercise the option because he had to get to know Jones better, why did he exercise Dexter’s?
Occam’s razor: Dex flashed ability, but Schoen had real issues with Jones’ performance.
Next stop: debate his contract.
Let’s beat the Eagles!
You do realize that Thomas and Barkley are all pros right? What are you talking about? The only idiots who thought Thomas and Barkley sucked are no longer posting here.
Thank you, that’s what I was offering as my chief complaint. Per usual, you said it more succinctly Than I did
2. Dex, while not top tier at the time, was clearly a keeper at that price.
3. To date Jones didn’t earn $22m guaranteed or whatever it was, certainly not before Daboll was able to work with him for a season.
4. It’s infinitely more difficult to find out what you have a QB than any other position, so the comparison doesn’t make much sense.
5. It sends a message to DJ that he’s got to step up if he wants another contract.
I feel like you know all this already though, why fake it?
Shocked to see FMIC allowed on.
Guess you can falsify another person's posts and ridicule them with little consequence on this site. Not surprised he would return as he has no shame.
You might as well put me at left tackle and the performance would have been the same.
Anyone with a quarter of a brain would admit that the OL was an unmitigated disaster under Gettleman, and that Jones had next to no chance to be awesome right away, except the Thomas pick obviously which needed a year or two to really shine.
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UConn — I agree with the volume point. In retrospect, I think I was less annoyed by it, because it was a view I agreed with. If it were a view I didn’t agree with or was neutral on, I’d probably be annoyed. That’s a little hypocritical on my part.
Thank you, that’s what I was offering as my chief complaint. Per usual, you said it more succinctly Than I did
Good lesson for all of us to self reflect time-to-time and make sure our intent and behavior is a positive contribution to the community.
And if Schoen didn’t exercise the option because he had to get to know Jones better, why did he exercise Dexter’s?
Occam’s razor: Dex flashed ability, but Schoen had real issues with Jones’ performance.
To me, kind of simple. Dex was a solid contributor an not an issue per se. DJ was looked at as a potential franchise guy, meriting a much closer look per my prior comments. Too, Dex would not be costing us a higher percentage of our cap moving forward. DJ potentially would cost nearly 4x what Dex would. Finding good DTs is not as hard as finding your next franchise QB
And if Schoen didn’t exercise the option because he had to get to know Jones better, why did he exercise Dexter’s?
Occam’s razor: Dex flashed ability, but Schoen had real issues with Jones’ performance.
Exactly right. The folks who love to berate everyone else for not using "facts" rationalize this away with asinine arguments like "Schoen really liked DJ and saw him as a core player" but needed to see more. Seriously? Can you imagine the outrage if Scheon hadn't exercised DL's option last year because he wanted to "see more"? It is unequivocal. Schoen had real concerns with DJ and his actions speak volumes more than anything he may have said to the press. But he is no more of a DJ hater than anyone else. Just a sensible GM doing sensible things.
And the cost consequence of not exercising DJ's option is monumental to this franchise. The argument that this approach was somehow just "part of his plan" is revisionist history. If he could go back in time, he would absolutely exercise that option. As would anyone else on this board.
If you don’t want to be called out for posting stuff on a message board that ends up being categorically incorrect, don’t post on a message board.
It’s like if you picked the Packers to win the Super Bowl this year and they ended up being pretty bad. Most of us are going to say “well hey that was pretty fucking stupid wasn’t it?” And you’d say things like “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…” instead of admitting that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
Have some self awareness ryan...
Isn't “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…" an admission that there was a flaw in their opinion? They thought these aspect would be better for whatever reasons...
You want absolutesself immolation, but you in turn cannot say DG was bad without a but...
Who the fuck is "you guys"?
My opinion was actually closer to yours, and I while I found the whole thing not worth my time to read through all the debate, when I did read stuff, I found both sides insufferable but your even more so. Your side would initiate the threads with stuff like "how long will it take for the DJ haters to come and say blah blah blah". You guys instigated and literally asked for it.
A monumental mistake is what Carolina did with Darnold - they traded for him and a few weeks later picked up his 5th year option without ever seeing what he can do for them.
That being said, if anyone was actually listening to anything he was saying in a lot of those interviews post his introduction as GM, you could tell he liked him a lot. He even named him specifically as a core player you can build around with. Let's not act like Jones magically reversed course and it came out of absolutely nowhere that he could play like this. Schoen and Daboll likely knew they could get really good play out of this guy.
Seriously, what is Shoen going to say after making that decision.
"Yeah, I'm rolling with the guy because I don't have another reasonable choice, but the guy sucks!"? Of course he is going to say positive things, it means nothing.
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The defense of DJ has always involved criticizing everyone else around him. It was ungenerous. Everyone on the 2021 Giants was being dragged down by a dysfunctional environment. Thomas, Slayton, Barkley. Everyone.
You do realize that Thomas and Barkley are all pros right? What are you talking about? The only idiots who thought Thomas and Barkley sucked are no longer posting here.
Barkley sucked until this year. I know that i not a popular opinion, but that is mine and I am still here.
My criteria for being a "good" RB is different from most here. Mine starts with not getting stuffed so many times.
But, hey most disagree, that's life.
I'm still here and I have said, and will continue to say that Barkley had an excellent season. By far his best. He deserves the accolades for what he has done this year.
If you don’t want to be called out for posting stuff on a message board that ends up being categorically incorrect, don’t post on a message board.
It’s like if you picked the Packers to win the Super Bowl this year and they ended up being pretty bad. Most of us are going to say “well hey that was pretty fucking stupid wasn’t it?” And you’d say things like “well the offensive line and defense really let them down…” instead of admitting that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
LOL. This is funny coming from you. You are throwing lies into this thread to exaggerate your point. I would call that nonsense.
I am still skeptical of giving Jones a huge contract. I hope he really has turned the corner. If Jones gets his $200M and sputters, are you going to admit you were wrong? Of course not, you will continue to blame everyone else on the team.
Quote:
Other liked to project the term onto others considered in it but to me it came with a condescending tone from some. They use statistical analysis and data to form a narrative with little consideration to circumstances around that data. Unfortunately football is a real time contact sport whose variables can change play to play. Coaching matters. Personnel around the QB matter. Match up and competition should be considered. This often is left out of the assumption crowd.
Hoping for a big game Saturday. Like Daboll said "Strength in Team".
This is hands down your best contribution to the site, and an early candidate for post of the year.
Only a fool would take a statistical output (say number of rushes and yards per carry) and manufacture some causal or predictive value narrative, without understanding the circumstances around the data.
But I understand the data and what it suggests. It tells me I am winning or at least favorably competing on the LOS and controlling the TOP battle. That I am ahead of the chains and this will help the QB, OL and WR's. Then they can dictate to the defense and not sit in those bad down/distance situations that seems to expose some of this teams vulnerable positions. Put a good defense on the other side and I am liking my chances.
You should consider also liking the Giants chances if it plays out this way Saturday night. Good chance the game is going to end no?