Polled 3 ex-GMs on what to pay Daniel Jones:
One: 3 yrs, $35-38M per, around $70M guaranteed; 4 yrs & more $ if he beats Eagles
2nd: 2yr, $21-23M per yr bridge deal
3rd: Deals like Kyler Murray’s ($46.1M per, $160M g’d) make it hard to keep price down |
I think where it’s at right now is a mix of 1 and 2. 3 years, between $25 million and the tag. A repeat of the Vikings performance I think it’s get to a top number of $35 million. Don’t think it hits 4 years, doesn’t make too much sense for either side to do four years. If this is how he plays from here on out, they’ll be redoing the contract to pay him over $40 million before it gets to year 3.
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His bridge is a franchise tag.
Otherwise it's a fair deal. Not top2 but definitely top 10.
- The Giants lose in Philly. Sign DJ to 3-35per
- The Giants win in Philly, do not make the SB. Sign DJ to 4-40per
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
If so, I have a feeling I know why at least 2 are ex-GMs.
There is no way he takes $21M a year, why would he do that? He will get $35M/yr or more on the open market. Outside of negotiating an agreement prior to the tagging period, the Giants can use the franchise or transition tag. The transition tag would get him about $32M next year, and leave him open to get a poison pill contract.
I think 5/$200 with $120M guaranteed sounds about right. That basically makes it a 3-yr deal, and QB salaries are likely to be pushing $55-60M by then.
If it doesn’t matter, then the last three games aren’t changing the price. The Eagles game doesn’t change the AAV drastically, but it will effect the guaranteed money.
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If you guys think Schoen is going to decide what the number is based on how he plays against the Eagles, you’re going to be disappointed
If it doesn’t matter, then the last three games aren’t changing the price. The Eagles game doesn’t change the AAV drastically, but it will effect the guaranteed money.
The last 3 games absolutely affect the price, as does the whole 2nd half of the season. What doesn't affect it negatively is going into the #1 seed, on the road, in the semis of the conf semi's, as a #6 seed. There is only upside if we do well. If we don't its marked up as very successful season, and an excellent building block moving forward. Hell we are 7+ pts underdogs
The only scenario Schoen decides the number is if he franchises Jones and tells him to eat it.
All other scenarios include Jim Denton negotiating and leveraging every factor he can.
The floor is probably set based on the Vikings games, but the ceiling certainly is not. If Jones leads the Giants to another road playoff win and an NFCC appearance, the number goes up.
- The Giants lose in Philly. Sign DJ to 3-35per
- The Giants win in Philly, do not make the SB. Sign DJ to 4-40per
Beat Philly. don't care about his contract. Win in philly in the playoffs as a 7 point dog and get this kid some weapons
Daniel Jones will be wearing a different colored uniform.
What has been posted from insiders suggests talks have been cordial but this could change as well.
His bridge is a franchise tag.
Otherwise it's a fair deal. Not top2 but definitely top 10.
Yeah, not sure who #2 is but that guy is stuck at about week 10 or so, lol.
Chris Simms said the other day in so many words that the deal is done. He said "his connections expressed that."
and if you want to add any talent you need to make it 4 to 6 years to absorb the guaranteed money so you can sign other players.
It basically would allow Jones to say “I’m not Kirk cousins, pay me more”.
What has been posted from insiders suggests talks have been cordial but this could change as well.
Unless it’s a team in the top 10 I don’t think the Giants would take the picks since they could just franchise him again.
Bingo. One of the clear reasons this clown is now an ex GM.
The guy looks like he's morphing into one of the top dual threats QBs in the league. That running ability is plus-plus right now.
So, from a pure business standpoint, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it's an AAV of $40M and $100-$150M guaranteed. In other words, I can't see a bridge deal here...
It basically would allow Jones to say “I’m not Kirk cousins, pay me more”.
Right. This is an evaluation year coming off coming off of some poor seasons production wise. The number is fluid as long as the evaluation period goes, and floor has been set after the Vikings game.
The guy looks like he's morphing into one of the top dual threats QBs in the league. That running ability is plus-plus right now.
So, from a pure business standpoint, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it's an AAV of $40M and $100-$150M guaranteed. In other words, I can't see a bridge deal here...
That’s why I think it ends up at 3 years, $70 million guaranteed. Basically guarantees two tag years, and if this is the Jones we see next year they’re ripping that third year up and signing a a deal that keeps him a Giant until he’s in his mid 30s.
At some point in the future I will be totally unsurprised when Pat Leonard is revealed to be completely making up many of his sources.
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and he is a big reason. Who knows how much. If negotiations break down and he gets tagged I also think it is much more likely another team is willing to give up picks.
What has been posted from insiders suggests talks have been cordial but this could change as well.
Unless it’s a team in the top 10 I don’t think the Giants would take the picks since they could just franchise him again.
You're in this area but I posted the tags on here a while back. From what I saw he has the right to negotiate with other teams. Giants then have the right to match and if they don't then the team also has to give up two picks. That team could also make the deal a tougher one to match with some creativity and depending on its Cap situation. Some time ago I remember seeing this "poison pill" but not sure if this in play today.
Please correct me if I have this wrong.
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I have been very critical of Jones's play, but if I put my business cap on, there is NFW that Team Jones should sign a multi-year deal that is < $35M AAV. They know they have that already in the non-EFT.
The guy looks like he's morphing into one of the top dual threats QBs in the league. That running ability is plus-plus right now.
So, from a pure business standpoint, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it's an AAV of $40M and $100-$150M guaranteed. In other words, I can't see a bridge deal here...
That’s why I think it ends up at 3 years, $70 million guaranteed. Basically guarantees two tag years, and if this is the Jones we see next year they’re ripping that third year up and signing a a deal that keeps him a Giant until he’s in his mid 30s.
He is not signing a deal less than $25M AAV. That is ridiculous. I’m not sure he’d sign for less than $35M, which is why I posited 5/$200M, $120M guaranteed. That makes it a deal the Giants can get out of in 3 years if things go south.
The guy looks like he's morphing into one of the top dual threats QBs in the league. That running ability is plus-plus right now.
So, from a pure business standpoint, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it's an AAV of $40M and $100-$150M guaranteed. In other words, I can't see a bridge deal here...
There is zero chance he accepts a bridge deal. Zero. It's no wonder that guy is an ex GM
I think you're numbers are about right. If it's a three year deal (which I don't think they would take, but for the sake of argument) it would be 3/130, with 80+ guaranteed. A 4 year deal would be 165(ish) with 100(ish) guaranteed
I had not heard the team in a while. Certainly did not realize it was not far back. Thanks.
Did you hear Mara and Tisch earlier this week?
GTF outta here.....
I'd bet money this list was pulled out of Leonard's ass. There is literally NO accountability with shit like this. Who is checking Leonard or forcing him to prove anything? What stops Leonard from making this shit up himself? No one can say he's lying and no one even cares enough to start that war and Leonard knows this.
This list, is bullshit. Any unnamed source is BULLSHIT. Unnamed might as well be code word for bullshit.
I'm optimistic the Giants can get him at a floor, he may be motivated to be here. But that floor is cap-inflated version of the low 30 AAV deals signed recently by QBs with guarantees that slightly exceed the cost of two tags and job security through the length of the deal. You might see higher AAV with less security but that's kind of the foundation.
Total 5 years 200 million 75 Signing Bonus, 100 guaranteed.
Signing Bonus
75
Salary
10, 15, 20, 30, 50
Cap Hit
25, 30, 35, 45, 65
First 2 year salaries are guaranteed (25).
Savings/Cost if released
n/a n/a 20/45 30/30 50/15
Pretty much forces extension talks in year 5.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
This would have been an unthinkable discussion for me 6 weeks or so ago, but if you go the exclusive rights franchise tag, we're talking about a 1-year deal in the neighborhood of $45 million, right?
I've referenced this article before, I think it's pretty informative when it comes to the current rules around the tag.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-lamar-jackson-tops-nine-franchise-tag-candidates-for-2023-projected-tag-salary-at-each-position/
The 120% and five largest salaries provisions have remained intact but the formula component is now calculated over a five-year period that's tied to a percentage of the overall salary cap. More specifically, the number for each position is derived by taking the sum of the non-exclusive franchise tags as determined by the original methodology for the previous five seasons and dividing by the sum of the actual NFL salary cap amount for the previous five seasons. The resulting percentage, which is known as the cap percentage average in the CBA, is then multiplied by the actual salary cap for the upcoming league year.
This non-exclusive tag allows a player to negotiate with other NFL teams but if he signs an offer sheet with another club, his team has five days to match the offer. If the offer is not matched, his team will receive two first-round picks as compensation from the signing team.
Under the exclusive franchise tag, a player will receive a one-year offer from his team that is the greater of the average of the top-five salaries at his position once the restricted free agent signing period of the current league year has ended (April 21 for 2023) or 120% of his prior year's salary. The non-exclusive number is initially used as a placeholder and adjusted upward if the exclusive calculation dictates once restricted free agency ends. A player cannot negotiate with other teams with the exclusive franchise tag.
So basically, the question comes to mind, with the right to match, the non-exclusive tag would probably be the way to go, right? I don't see the Giants taking the two firsts at this point, and yes, earlier I said that would be an ideal situation. That would put DJ in the $32M for one year area, if I have this right.
However, and someone more knowledgeable than me can reply, but a team can only use 1 tag per year, whether it would be the non-exclusive or exclusive, correct? In other words, they wouldn't be able to use the non-exclusive on DJ and the exclusive tag on Saquon, I think.
If any tag is put on DJ, it puts Saquon in the driver's seat, because a 1-year franchise tag, something much more approachable than a 4-year, $50M+ deal (likely the neighborhood we're talking about) would be desirable. That said, I would do what's necessary to keep Barkley a Giant. My preference would be to have him play on the tag, however.
But more important than that, I think, is to be able to not commit to DJ more than 2 years, and that likely means a tag has to be employed for him.
All-in-all, DJ's recent play has elevated what his cost will be, which will likely effect the approach to Saquon.
I think it’s more like $35-$38-$42M as a starting point, possibly an adjust between years based on a percentage of the yearly cap increase as a ‘higher of’ boosting that stated increase.
If they think DJ faultered after year 1, or year 2, they draft their QB.
If he’s proven himself , LW, AJ, and others are dropped or traded to get his contract redone and up to the league levels for top QBs.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
Listen to his comments about the ownership's regard for DJ, combined with the quotes that came out of the locker room on Sunday.
DJ is not getting offered a "2-year bridge" contract. This is going to be a 3-4 year deal near market rate (Leonard actually talks about the Kyler Murray contract ....yikes!).
Pat Leonard on Around the NFL - ( New Window )
On Murray I agree. IMO he was always overrated and he doesn't play well enough in the pocket to be a top QB. He's really more of an athlete playing QB, and frankly his running is his key thing
On Murray I agree. IMO he was always overrated and he doesn't play well enough in the pocket to be a top QB. He's really more of an athlete playing QB, and frankly his running is his key thing
He's a 10-year veteran, 8-year starter, who's 34 years old. His playoff record is 1-4, having never advanced past the divisional round of the playoffs. I strongly disagree. He can win a Super Bowl in the same way Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won the Super Bowl, going back to the above point...a lot of QBs can win with that.
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
No they don't. He is ascending, the more they wait, the more it will cost.
If he continues to ascend, and he demonstrates he can play well and beat strong teams like Philly, you pay the higher price happily. I don't think Kansas City regrets paying Mahomes for a second.
No they don't. He is ascending, the more they wait, the more it will cost.
Not how it works. If Jones is the franchise QB some think, he’s not seeing the end of the 3 or 4 year deal he signs this spring. The deal will be reworked to pay him appropriately. “If they wait they pay more” doesn’t really matter because they’ll end up paying it anyway.
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In comment 16000608 JonC said:
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
The good thing is, you don't sign the checks, so no one cares. This was all done the moment he won that playoff game. They are locking him up for 5, bank on it. Also, this discussion is still silly. Like I said at 6-1 and 7-2, we need the whole season. With all due respect, much of what you said about Jones in the past makes you looks absolutely foolish today. Easy to find. If he beats Philly, it make it look even more foolish. Let the season play, root for the kid. You guys have no self awareness, the rest of the football world is mocking the fans still putting upgoal posts for Jones.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
Oh FFS, this is a discussion board where we, you know, discuss, opinions and such. Everyone knows are opinions don't mean anything to what happens, including yours, and the notion that he's going to be locked in for 5-years. That is not a done deal, the tag will be on the table, it has to be, because it's a critical negotiation piece.
Lol, yeah if you take out the fact that Tom Brady played in the AFC East for 15 seasons, he had a shitty career
He’s an ass, clearly hasn’t watched a Giants game this year. Him and Jason MacIntyre said he stunk 1.5 weeks ago. Not average, not a game manager, bad.
A lot of people forget he showed serious flashes his rookie year, he had a few multiple TD zero pick games. Obviously the turnovers were obscene but he showed promise. Shurmur stunk as a HC but was pretty innovative offensively.
Judge is where Jones got neutered and was asked to strictly game manage. Maybe in hindsight it was for the best, the turnovers are severely cut down and he’s starting to let it rip.
He is better now, and ceiling is way higher because of his legs.
This isn't a dig on Jones, because I agree at least with the notion that he could be ascending. In fact, it's clear he's ascended this year from last. But, his best games were against bad defenses, and the overall offensive output over the year was pedestrian. These are simple facts.
I really enjoyed Sy's re-cap of the Vikings game and agree whole-heartedly with his assessment:
So, it's up to Jones to show that he can check that last box, play like this week in, week out, no matter the opponent.
This team went 9-6-1. If I only look at the numbers, the season-long output, the season results, the feeling I get is an average starting QB. It's the recent results, read: small sample, against bad defenses, but also signs that he CAN be THE MAN, that has me hopeful. I'm hopeful, many of you have decided he is what he's shown in that small sample.
I hope to hell you are all right.
Thanks, Jon. And I'll say this once more...I root like hell for Daniel. You should see me on gameday. I look like the President of the DJFC.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag.
No..The Giants do not need to see anymore. It is YOU who wants to see it for another year.
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Cowherd just slammed him calling him a C- QB. Said if you take out the two Viking games with an atrocious defense his passing production is very poor.
He’s an ass, clearly hasn’t watched a Giants game this year. Him and Jason MacIntyre said he stunk 1.5 weeks ago. Not average, not a game manager, bad.
A lot of people forget he showed serious flashes his rookie year, he had a few multiple TD zero pick games. Obviously the turnovers were obscene but he showed promise. Shurmur stunk as a HC but was pretty innovative offensively.
Judge is where Jones got neutered and was asked to strictly game manage. Maybe in hindsight it was for the best, the turnovers are severely cut down and he’s starting to let it rip.
Right. The receiving and pass pro has also been generally below average to piss poor his entire career both at Duke and here with us. His performances have to be assessed within that context.Think it's partially why they selected him at 6 overall they said his ability to deal with adversity was basically special.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
allstarjim and I have butted heads before, but he is a good poster. He is thoughtful and tries to offer data and examples to support his position. I have never felt he was projecting any hate for DJ.
allstarjim and I have butted heads before, but he is a good poster. He is thoughtful and tries to offer data and examples to support his position. I have never felt he was projecting any hate for DJ.
Didn't you say this exact same sentence about Terps?
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In comment 16000793 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16000608 JonC said:
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
The good thing is, you don't sign the checks, so no one cares. This was all done the moment he won that playoff game. They are locking him up for 5, bank on it. Also, this discussion is still silly. Like I said at 6-1 and 7-2, we need the whole season. With all due respect, much of what you said about Jones in the past makes you looks absolutely foolish today. Easy to find. If he beats Philly, it make it look even more foolish. Let the season play, root for the kid. You guys have no self awareness, the rest of the football world is mocking the fans still putting upgoal posts for Jones.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
Oh FFS, this is a discussion board where we, you know, discuss, opinions and such. Everyone knows are opinions don't mean anything to what happens, including yours, and the notion that he's going to be locked in for 5-years. That is not a done deal, the tag will be on the table, it has to be, because it's a critical negotiation piece.
he played his best of game of the season to clinch the playoffs.
He won he is first playoff game AND was the reason they won. Your position is rooted in the fact that you think you are correct in previous evaluations of Jones.
Claiming he is your guy if he beats the number 1 seed to reach the championship game was one of the most self important and least self aware threads created here.
Of course you will.
I did not believe this was possible for Jones. I was with you on this. I did not think he would improve his ability to process fast enough to succeed in the red zone. He was 8th this year in red zone efficiency.
THE GAME SLOWED DOWN.
He got better before my eyes.
Objectively better.
Subjectively too, he is killing the eye test.
The declined his 5th year option.
Can you imagine the pressure every single game was this year for Jones under that light?
When you add context to his season, he KILLED.
I didn't say a bridge was in the works, can it.
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag.
No..The Giants do not need to see anymore. It is YOU who wants to see it for another year.
Hate to break it to you, but if the Giants didn’t need to see it happen for another year he’d be getting something along the lines of the Murray deal. I’d wager that’s not going to be the case.
Jones has played well the past few weeks, but you’re kidding yourself if you think the Giants are content and don’t need to see improvement again next year.
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In comment 16000561 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag.
No..The Giants do not need to see anymore. It is YOU who wants to see it for another year.
Hate to break it to you, but if the Giants didn’t need to see it happen for another year he’d be getting something along the lines of the Murray deal. I’d wager that’s not going to be the case.
Jones has played well the past few weeks, but you’re kidding yourself if you think the Giants are content and don’t need to see improvement again next year.
Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
Signing a player long term also means you are confident in their ability to improve, otherwise you wouldn't sign that player.
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There is no bridge deal with Jones. He's the franchise QB that both Mara and Tisch want. Enough with that already.
I didn't say a bridge was in the works, can it.
No - you suggested they can't do a bridge now because of the last few games. They don't want to do a bridge. They want him to be the franchise QB with no strings attached. If we're in agreement there, I'll can it.
2023 - $12M signing + $15M base + $5M roster bonus ($32M cap)
2024 - $12M signing + $20M base + $5M roster bonus ($37M cap)
2025 - $12M signing + $25M base ($37M cap)
2026 - $12M signing + $30M base ($42M cap)
2027 - $12M signing void year dead money ($12M cap).
I don't think Schoen is going to commit to a deal that makes it harder to move on from Jones in 2 years from a cap POV than simply putting the franchise tag on him for 2 years. Jones will get 50% of the cash value in Year 1 which is better than playing on the franchise tag. Jones has played well this year, but I am not sure there are too many other teams willing to give him more than a 2-3 year contract. Other teams have seen what happened to the Vikings with Kirk Cousins and may opt to try their luck in the draft before paying Jones.
Signing a player long term also means you are confident in their ability to improve, otherwise you wouldn't sign that player.
You got to start reading full discussions and not just one comment. Where did I say they wouldn’t? He’s getting a 3 or 4 year deal. The comment about them needing to see more was part of a comment in regards to “he’s a free agent going to have to pay him whatever he wants”.
The Giants don’t, they can still tag him if the money or years is higher than they want to go.
2023 - $12M signing + $15M base + $5M roster bonus ($32M cap)
2024 - $12M signing + $20M base + $5M roster bonus ($37M cap)
2025 - $12M signing + $25M base ($37M cap)
2026 - $12M signing + $30M base ($42M cap)
2027 - $12M signing void year dead money ($12M cap).
I don't think Schoen is going to commit to a deal that makes it harder to move on from Jones in 2 years from a cap POV than simply putting the franchise tag on him for 2 years. Jones will get 50% of the cash value in Year 1 which is better than playing on the franchise tag. Jones has played well this year, but I am not sure there are too many other teams willing to give him more than a 2-3 year contract. Other teams have seen what happened to the Vikings with Kirk Cousins and may opt to try their luck in the draft before paying Jones.
I think you’re on the right path, but one less year with the same type of guaranteed money you stated.
No name, I pay it no mind.
Imagine the amount of $$$ a 28-year old Daniel Jones could get if he plays 3 more years like this and they get him a #1 WR/improved supporting cast?
Theoretically, his value's at his lowest right now than at any point in the next 3 years.
From Jones perspective, a 3-year deal may be the sweet spot between locking up a good chunk of change now and working towards a monster payday in 2026.
Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
These posts all ignore what those teams look like if they DO NOT pay the QB or they imply that said teams would be better off not paying the "overpaid" QB.
It's not that simple. It's awfully convenient for some of you to assume the best if the Vikings don't pay Cousins. Where are they now? Go look at WASH and tell me that franchise is better off without Cousins. Are they winning titles? Probably not. ALmost definitely not. Are they in playoffs more often the last 3-4-5 years? PRobably so. How do you win an NFL title? Get to the playoffs.
Of course it's a bad thing being hitched to a NON elite QB but it's hard to predict which QBs can or can't win super bowls. All you have is good or not good. Some Good QBs win super bowls. Most do not. Some great ones win too. And some do not.
You can't just put this whole QB paying debate thing in a nice little box with a bow on top and proclaim "paying the average QB is bad and QB hell"--IT IS NOT THAT EASY. QB hell is having a bad QB or no QB at all. Let's establish that right now. Even if WASH wasn't paying Prince Harry, they'd still be in QB hell because they don't have one. HEnikie is cheap. And he sucks.
The money is a factor, having the player is a bigger factor. Bird in the hand.
You may think that but Herbert is getting $50 million on his deal next year. That’s already basically done. We’re talking specifically about contracts handed out, not who’s better.
Everything about Jones is offensive to you, my god.
I think your second is over.
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Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
What if Daniel Jones is the MVP of the Superbowl?
Before you laugh at me, I want to remind you that we have already won a playoff game.
Am I the only one that believes we can win the Superbowl?
If Daniel Jones wins the Superbowl and is the MVP, what does his contract look like?
Some of you should shut and spend a day or 2 reflecting.
I don't know why some of you are fans.
This is the best story every.
The only part of this story that might be bad is that you might have said a lot of stupid shit on fan board.
You were wrong, so what.
Get over yourselves.
Get on board.
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ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.
I think your second is over.
i forgot chick310 as well. You guys can facetime if Jones slips up and they lose Saturday.
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In comment 16000893 mittenedman said:
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There is no bridge deal with Jones. He's the franchise QB that both Mara and Tisch want. Enough with that already.
I didn't say a bridge was in the works, can it.
No - you suggested they can't do a bridge now because of the last few games. They don't want to do a bridge. They want him to be the franchise QB with no strings attached. If we're in agreement there, I'll can it.
I would expect competent and thorough executives to have largely made their decision by now. The last three victories certainly would help bolster a position. My comment was more to the player's agent and leverage increased by Jones' performance the last three wins, be it optics or how much more he can demand in compensation. Make no mistake, Jones and the Giants are a different player and team than they were before the Colts game. They've taken it up a few notches these past three victories.
Btw, how do you know what they want?
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Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
lol some of you will find any way to keep those heals dug in.
The money is a factor, having the player is a bigger factor. Bird in the hand.
The Giants are going to pay him, and Team Jones isn’t asking for $45 million a year so the debates are really irrelevant. The range of what they settle on is going to be five or take at max $5 million from the tag number. The only major changes from here on it is the number of guaranteed dollars.
If it’s a 3 year deal I think it ends of 3/96 with 70-80 guaranteed. Dont get caught up too much on the stated guaranteed figure on an 3 year deal. Effective guarantees are basically going to be fully guaranteed in all likely hood, since they won’t be cutting him before the 3rd season. For him not to see every dime of a 3 year deal they’d have draft someone in 2024 or someone in 2025 that is ready to go day 1. Seems unlikely if the team stays on this trajectory.
If they won’t budge on a 4 year deal I think it ends up somewhere between 108 million and 120 million, with listed guarantees of 90.
How am I waiting for him to be average? I’m expecting him to play well on Saturday. We’re even throwing out similar contract figures. Christ you’re a piece of work man.
Who the fuck cares. You want Jones here for a few more years at the very least? You pay him what young good or very good QBs get in FA and move the fuck on. Enough with the hand-wringing.
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In comment 16000920 mittenedman said:
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Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
lol some of you will find any way to keep those heals dug in.
Is Jones getting a Murray sized deal this spring? If no, why not?
Like I said, a three year deal is effectively fully guaranteed barring complete disaster or injury and team Jones knows that regardless of what the stated guarantees are.
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Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
I think we are all in agreement that he's not going to get that kind of deal. But he's also not getting a bridge deal like moron ex GM suggested in #2. He'll get a 4-5 year deal, IMO (As I stated above), at above market rates.
The Chargers are going to box themselves in a corner - one of the reasons why Hebert looks as good as he does is having Williams, Allen and Eckler. Signing Hebert to such a big contract will hamper their abilities to sign any\all of them. They better hope they draft their replacements well...
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In comment 16000820 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16000793 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16000608 JonC said:
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
The good thing is, you don't sign the checks, so no one cares. This was all done the moment he won that playoff game. They are locking him up for 5, bank on it. Also, this discussion is still silly. Like I said at 6-1 and 7-2, we need the whole season. With all due respect, much of what you said about Jones in the past makes you looks absolutely foolish today. Easy to find. If he beats Philly, it make it look even more foolish. Let the season play, root for the kid. You guys have no self awareness, the rest of the football world is mocking the fans still putting upgoal posts for Jones.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
Oh FFS, this is a discussion board where we, you know, discuss, opinions and such. Everyone knows are opinions don't mean anything to what happens, including yours, and the notion that he's going to be locked in for 5-years. That is not a done deal, the tag will be on the table, it has to be, because it's a critical negotiation piece.
I am here discussing it with you. Not telling you to not talk about it but you can admit milestones have completely changed this discussion happened that have changed this discussion.
he played his best of game of the season to clinch the playoffs.
He won he is first playoff game AND was the reason they won. Your position is rooted in the fact that you think you are correct in previous evaluations of Jones.
Claiming he is your guy if he beats the number 1 seed to reach the championship game was one of the most self important and least self aware threads created here.
Of course you will.
I did not believe this was possible for Jones. I was with you on this. I did not think he would improve his ability to process fast enough to succeed in the red zone. He was 8th this year in red zone efficiency.
THE GAME SLOWED DOWN.
He got better before my eyes.
Objectively better.
Subjectively too, he is killing the eye test.
The declined his 5th year option.
Can you imagine the pressure every single game was this year for Jones under that light?
When you add context to his season, he KILLED.
What I don't get is how Daboll and Schoen could not tell by watching the games that Jones was not worth keeping. You said yourself TGH that you did not even have to watch an extended film or all-22 because you saw enough on gameday that Jones was 'epic bad'. Epic bad should have been easy to spot for Daboll and Schoen which probably should have made their decision for them to not continue on with Jones in any way shape or form. The most they did was not pickup his 5th year option which said they probably needed to see him for themselves before making a more important decision about Jones' future. Why would Daboll and Schoen go into this season with a qb that was so obviously bad that even fans could see it? You could argue it would have been a lot wiser to cut ties with a bad quarterback to give an unknown commodity a chance, or even just go with Tyrod Taylor.
I wonder if Daboll and Schoen thought perhaps Jones' surroundings made it very difficult for him to improve.
Relax. We are going all in with these younger players we drafted, all about to enter their respective primes on 2nd contracts. We are poised and primed to re-sign all of our own and have room to fill holes. We have a lot of draft picks.
Everything is fine. Forget about the money and just enjoy this team and roster. They are in a great place. Guys will get paid. Make peace with it and relax.
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In comment 16000960 ryanmkeane said:
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ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.
I think your second is over.
i forgot chick310 as well. You guys can facetime if Jones slips up and they lose Saturday.
No, we hope the Giants win and Jones is one of the reasons why.
But the way you are trending today on DJ, he will be passing up Mahomes in the rankings by 4pm and probably Roger Staubach and Joe Montana by dinnertime.
It’s going to end up 3 or 4 years. I think 3 is where they settle on, which gives Jones a chance to get $45 or $50 million a year from age 28-34.
Nothing is guaranteed. But we're paying Jones and we should pay Jones. He's why we made the playoffs and why we're still in the playoffs. HE's the goods until proven otherwise.
And what if he's THIS good. IF you can't allow that dream to creep into your head as an NYG fan, why the hell are you even watching.
3 straight weeks. SUPER STAR.
What if he keeps this up. Sorry am I not allowed to go there? Well I am.
If the scoops posted here last week are accurate, it sounds like they're stuck on 3 years. I would think 3/105 is the approximate floor for Schoen to begin negotiating. But my view of Jones could be different than Schoen's, on that I don't know. His agent probably started at 5/200+, but the last two years really are probably vanity years.
3 straight weeks. SUPER STAR.
What if he keeps this up. Sorry am I not allowed to go there? Well I am.
Yes. Big level in opponent this week though.
doesn't seem like leonard knows how polling works.
if jones asks for the moon he'll get franchised, simple as that.
$190M / 5 years, $125M guaranteed
$60M signing bonus.
Salaries of $16M (gtd) / $21M (gtd) / $28M (gtd) / $30M / $35M.
Cap hits of $28 / $33 / $40 / $42 / $47
And with that I'm sure it will end up looking nothing like this. But these are numbers that I think I'd be rather happy with whether I try to put myself in Jones shoes or NYG shoes.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.
It's very possible JS and Daboll don't want to tag him because they expect him to take another leap next year (with a 2nd year in the system, improved pass pro and a better WR corps). It's very possible they expect Jones to have a better season statistically next year and would rather negotiate a longer term deal now vs '24 when his price tag will most likely be higher.
It's very possible JS and Daboll believe in Jones, unlike a dwindling few on BBI.
Jones also gets 4 years, but in the range of 36-38m per year.
Doing that would put Saquon in the top 5 amongst RBs in AAV, and Jones in the top 10.
Is that a joke?
I think your reference to Mara and Tisch is the missing context here about "how do you know". Is there a link to read it?
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Is how stressed he looks out on the field. He’s trying really hard. Stress interferes with flow and focus. Just calming down may allow better mental processing and field vision.
Is that a joke?
Yes
You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.
Are they going to hand him a Murray type contract? The answer is no. That means they need to see more before handing him that type of contract. What is so hard or offensive about this concept.
Jones is getting a contract this spring. Before he gets a franchise QB deal on his one after that the Giants need to see more. Where is the disconnect here?
Jones also gets 4 years, but in the range of 36-38m per year.
Doing that would put Saquon in the top 5 amongst RBs in AAV, and Jones in the top 10.
FT tag for RB is 12M a year...we would have to structure that contract back heavy to reap any benefit (which I wouldn't want to do for a RB)
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
Great post Jim.
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ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.
You may think that but Herbert is getting $50 million on his deal next year. That’s already basically done. We’re talking specifically about contracts handed out, not who’s better.
Everything about Jones is offensive to you, my god.
Herbert is Nerfy... soft. He doesn't deserve 50 million when he couldn't step up and put the team and offense on his back and put away the Jags when they started mounting their comeback.
Win a playoff game and get back to me on 50 mil.
Just the economics, and where the market is headed. They said after Herbert/Burrow deals get done it will put it in context.
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.
It's very possible JS and Daboll don't want to tag him because they expect him to take another leap next year (with a 2nd year in the system, improved pass pro and a better WR corps). It's very possible they expect Jones to have a better season statistically next year and would rather negotiate a longer term deal now vs '24 when his price tag will most likely be higher.
It's very possible JS and Daboll believe in Jones, unlike a dwindling few on BBI.
They can always tag him. He’s it totally free per se. I’m of a big fan of tagging As you don’t want to have to overpay IMO of he isn’t a good next year or you the. Have to give him a mega deal if he kills it next year.
The reality is it’s always about the guaranteed cash. Always
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Is how stressed he looks out on the field. He’s trying really hard. Stress interferes with flow and focus. Just calming down may allow better mental processing and field vision.
Is that a joke?
WTF kinda comment is this? lol.....i guess it is a joke I am laughing. And SMH.
He’s not getting that from anyone. Unless we win the Super Bowl. Then who cares lol
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allstarjim and I have butted heads before, but he is a good poster. He is thoughtful and tries to offer data and examples to support his position. I have never felt he was projecting any hate for DJ.
Didn't you say this exact same sentence about Terps?
Probably. And?
I'm continually amazed how many posters can't manage strong/different opinions and personalities. Maybe I'm just wound differently, but are way too many posters who take this stuff too seriously and personally.
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In comment 16000608 JonC said:
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
These posts all ignore what those teams look like if they DO NOT pay the QB or they imply that said teams would be better off not paying the "overpaid" QB.
It's not that simple. It's awfully convenient for some of you to assume the best if the Vikings don't pay Cousins. Where are they now? Go look at WASH and tell me that franchise is better off without Cousins. Are they winning titles? Probably not. ALmost definitely not. Are they in playoffs more often the last 3-4-5 years? PRobably so. How do you win an NFL title? Get to the playoffs.
Of course it's a bad thing being hitched to a NON elite QB but it's hard to predict which QBs can or can't win super bowls. All you have is good or not good. Some Good QBs win super bowls. Most do not. Some great ones win too. And some do not.
You can't just put this whole QB paying debate thing in a nice little box with a bow on top and proclaim "paying the average QB is bad and QB hell"--IT IS NOT THAT EASY. QB hell is having a bad QB or no QB at all. Let's establish that right now. Even if WASH wasn't paying Prince Harry, they'd still be in QB hell because they don't have one. HEnikie is cheap. And he sucks.
See, that's where we part ways. Strongly disagree. Paying a QB that has a capped ceiling in a long-term deal (a la Cousins) is QB hell.
I agree Heinicke stinks. But here's what he doesn't do...there is virtually no opportunity cost to Heinicke. He doesn't preclude them from acquiring a potentially better QB. And because bad teams with nothing at QB likely will have draft picks in the top 5 or so, the opportunity to draft a superb talent is much greater than a team like the Vikings, who will be drafting in the 20s again.
I'd much rather be the team who sucks for a year but has the opportunity to draft a top talent, while acknowledging that they are no guarantees (in anything), than having a QB that consumes an out-sized percentage of the cap for half a decade, while having the team hamstrung from making more impactful moves in free agency to a degree.
Yes, I get it, there are teams that perpetually draft at the top and go many years without finding the guy. But if the Giants sign Jones to a 5-year deal, he better be the goods, because there is nobody coming in on a white horse to rescue them from that. If he strings together a bunch of relatively mediocre seasons where the Giants never advance past the divisional round, it will have been a disaster by the end.
In other words, would you rather take a bunch of ok seasons where the Giants are competitive and win a bunch of games against bad teams, and lose all the games against the better teams, never really having a realistic shot at a Super Bowl, or would you rather suck out loud for a year and perhaps land a top prospect like Caleb Williams, who at least gives you renewed hope that you can have a run of being one of those better teams that beat up on the average, not-quite-there teams with mediocrity at QB?
There's no wrong answer here, because one could make the argument that you can have that magical run with a mediocre QB where everything falls into place, and the team is excellent on the defensive side of the ball, for example, and win a title. That's certainly more possible with a Kirk Cousins than it is with a Taylor Heinicke.
But as I've stated, my hope is to have a premium talent that puts the Giants in contention year after year after year.
Love him or hate him, Ben Roethlisberger had the Steelers in the playoffs just about every year. Peyton Manning same. Drew Brees (more years than not). And sure, I know what's coming..."oh ASJ, you just want Schoen to just magically manifest a HOF QB." I didn't say it's easy. I'm saying I'd rather take my shots at getting the next one than being stuck in an extended cycle of mediocrity. And squeaking into the playoffs and having early exits would be mediocre for me.
And don't twist my words here. I've repeatedly said Jones can be that if he continues to play like he has recently, particularly against good teams. If he keeps this up, I am totally here for it. I am rooting for that, I want it to happen. I want DJ to be thought of in the class of Josh Allen and Joe Burrow. And there is a chance we will witness him get there based on the results in these playoffs and next season.
But the point is, if he never does take that next step, showing he can play great against great teams, and he signs that big 5-year deal, it's going to hurt the franchise. We will continue to flounder behind the Eagles and Cowboys for the next 5 years, unless Schoen is able to acquire superlative talent all around him, the team stays relatively healthy, and we make one of those magical runs.
But if you're the Texans, for example, while you may not have a franchise QB, you can yet still find one, with nothing currently on the roster holding you back. There is no guy making $35M+ blocking anything they do. It is wide open for them. Maybe they land CJ Stroud or Bryce Young, and maybe one of those guys is the next great NFL QB. Maybe not. But if they hit, they are going to turn the entire franchise's fortunes around very quickly.
And then there's the Raiders. He played 9 years for the Raiders, made something like $135M dollars, made the playoffs just twice, and has an 0-2 playoff record.
Now imagine you're the GM of the Raiders in 2017 or the GM of the Texans in 2023. The former is going to pay Derek Carr for status quo huge money, the latter may get the top QB in the draft class, with again, no promises. Which GM would you rather be. Sure, there's some hindsight to this, but to me, Carr's results back then were entirely predictable. He's a good QB, not great. I'd rather be the Texans' GM right now. I really hope the Giants don't find themselves in the same spot the Raiders have been over these past years.
Finally, I'm still rooting for DJ to make these concerns silly in retrospect.
“To me, it was the poise,” Mara said. “That building is as loud as can be, and you look at him, and he’s in complete control of the offense. It gave me a lot of confidence that I don’t care how many times they score, we’re gonna score more.”
I asked Mara when it became a finality to him that Daniel Jones would be his Quarterback of the Future.
“It was a while ago I think … he just keeps getting better and better every week,” Mara said.
Mara laughed when it was suggested that he got the succession plan for Eli right (yes, with former GM Dave Gettleman’s help) and said: “Hey I can’t screw up everything, I gotta get something right.”
Kid brother Chris Mara: “We got somebody going forward.”
Asked what he thought of his quarterback, Steve Tisch smiled and said: “The world.”
It's over, and it won't be a bridge deal.
Daniel Jones proves himself to be QB Giants dreamed of - ( New Window )
Honestly, I couldn't care less.
He is not worth it at this juncture.
You can see the confidence as well.
To assume he puts up better numbers as the talent around him gets better seems very attainable.
Also, it's a pretty good indicator how he played last week that on a good team - he can take this team pretty far.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
They can always tag him. He’s it totally free per se. I’m of a big fan of tagging As you don’t want to have to overpay IMO of he isn’t a good next year or you the. Have to give him a mega deal if he kills it next year.
The reality is it’s always about the guaranteed cash. Always
I think the idea of tagging him is over. They declined his fifth year option and it’s time to commit or not.
Now you either pay him on a 5 year deal at market value or you franchise tag him. No agent in their right mind is going to accept a below market deal. The going rate for a good QB is the going rate.
At this point, the Giants have no choice but to resign him. So I think he will get a long term deal in the $40 mil per range. Probably more. Selling the team on another QB or going the draft route doesnt appear to be an option. Jones is the QB, the Giants lost the gamble and now have to pay more. Thats how this works. Now I think Jones is level headed and wont go for the moon for a salary but he still wants to get paid.
Now you either pay him on a 5 year deal at market value or you franchise tag him. No agent in their right mind is going to accept a below market deal. The going rate for a good QB is the going rate.
At this point, the Giants have no choice but to resign him. So I think he will get a long term deal in the $40 mil per range. Probably more. Selling the team on another QB or going the draft route doesnt appear to be an option. Jones is the QB, the Giants lost the gamble and now have to pay more. Thats how this works. Now I think Jones is level headed and wont go for the moon for a salary but he still wants to get paid.
This is it.
Giants wanted him to prove to them he's the guy. Gotta show it on the field, just not on paper.
Unless there are those out there that think Daboll and company still don't trust him. Ya know, holding things back because it's the QB's issues.
unbelievable.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Is this a debate? Minus the handful that get offended, for the most part it’s people just discussing what the contract might look like.
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If you guys think Schoen is going to decide what the number is based on how he plays against the Eagles, you’re going to be disappointed
The only scenario Schoen decides the number is if he franchises Jones and tells him to eat it.
All other scenarios include Jim Denton negotiating and leveraging every factor he can.
The floor is probably set based on the Vikings games, but the ceiling certainly is not. If Jones leads the Giants to another road playoff win and an NFCC appearance, the number goes up.
I think you just touched on an element of this discussion that I hadn't noticed before: there might be some posters who regard contracts as unilateral player rewards, rather than bargained-for consideration. It would be consistent with personalizing the discussion, I suppose.
Actually, you can. If Team Jones and Schoen can't reach a deal, the FT is a mechanism the NFLPA and the owners agreed to. Which ends up being a de facto "prove it again" insurance for the team...
$2.5m was a figure I remember being given, but I can’t seem to find the thread.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Just wait if Jones goes for 165 yards on Saturday with 0 TDs and 1 INT and the debate will rage on...........
What? You guys continue to amaze me. First, there is no DJHaters club. Never was. DJ doubters? Yes. And in case you haven't noticed, we're still here.
Further, myself, JonC, others, have said we'd love for DJ to erase all these doubts. He's come a significant distance in that regard from where we were at the start of the year. The only difference between me and you is that you are certain that DJ is a high-level franchise QB, while I believe the jury is still out, and would like the organization to not make a potential mistake that would set them back at least several years by over-valuing an average to slightly above average performer for the position and committing franchise QB type of money for the same.
That's it.
It's not a personal vendetta against DJ, it's a fair debate.
Those in your camp believe what you believe with the support of a few games where he played objectively exceptionally, particularly recently, never mind these were against bad teams, bad defenses.
And despite that there are far more games that are relatively milquetoast with modest offensive output, particularly in the stat that matters most...points. The Giants ranked 17th in the regular season in points and yardage. That is the definition of average.
This is an inescapable fact. The Giants played 7 games against top-10 defenses in terms of scoring allowed this year. They were the three division opponent games and the Ravens. If we extend this to top-10 defenses in terms of yardage allowed, we still have the same group of teams. The Giants were 2-4-1 in those games, DJ didn't play week 18, so he was 2-3-1 in the others.
In those games, show me the stand-out performance? The scoring output in those games? 16, 24, 20, 22, 20, 20. And one of those games was the Washington win, where Thibodeaux got the strip-sack TD, so the offense accounted for 13 points in that game.
Moreover, show me the stand-out performance in those games by DJ. He was ok in some, not very good in others, probably the Washington tie game was his best of the bunch and it was fairly pedestrian, with the offense generating 20 points.
I'll save you some time, it isn't there. I hope this Saturday night he has his first. It will show he is demonstrating the next step, which he hasn't yet shown...which is all we've been saying. That's where the risk is at with him...if he hasn't really shown he can do it against strong teams, how can you be convinced he will do it in the future? Just hope? Hope is not a strategy.
Hell, even against some bad defenses he was mediocre at times.
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was that at least we are not going to have endless debates about Jones this week. Alas, I was wrong.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Just wait if Jones goes for 165 yards on Saturday with 0 TDs and 1 INT and the debate will rage on...........
IMV, Jones built up a lot of equity with that Minnesota win. Hence, if he plays a game in the range you describe, it won't erase that.
However, if Jones lays a huge egg - 1 TD/3 INTs, a pick six, fumble, despite protection is good, etc (you get the gist) - that could be problematic.
Yeah man...it's like they WANT us to be rooting against the guy, it's strange. How great would it be if he was simply a late bloomer and is able to sustain his recent excellence Saturday night and beyond? I'd be thrilled.
There's nothing I'd like more than to see DJ earn a fat extension, right? As long as it's clear he's the two-way threat and performer he was against Minnesota against the Eagles and other top teams. So I'm here for DJ to go kick ass on Saturday night and shut me up!
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excellent post. There's a truck load of implications for NYG in this game, and they should help determine where a number of players are at this point in time. Beat the Eagles, and it's onto the next challenge and continue building. Keep winning and eliminate questions.
Yeah man...it's like they WANT us to be rooting against the guy, it's strange. How great would it be if he was simply a late bloomer and is able to sustain his recent excellence Saturday night and beyond? I'd be thrilled.
There's nothing I'd like more than to see DJ earn a fat extension, right? As long as it's clear he's the two-way threat and performer he was against Minnesota against the Eagles and other top teams. So I'm here for DJ to go kick ass on Saturday night and shut me up!
Couldn’t have said it better. Earlier on the thread I got accused of waiting for Jones to slip back into mediocrity… while giving out identical contract numbers to the king of the fan club. It would be fantastic for the Giants if this is who he is and they don’t have to worry about a new QB for a decade.
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
Relax. We are going all in with these younger players we drafted, all about to enter their respective primes on 2nd contracts. We are poised and primed to re-sign all of our own and have room to fill holes. We have a lot of draft picks.
Everything is fine. Forget about the money and just enjoy this team and roster. They are in a great place. Guys will get paid. Make peace with it and relax.
No one right now but over the next 3 off-season s
Jones: prob 35-40 mil if not more.
Barkley: 14-17mil
Thomas: 25-28 mil
Lawrence: 21-23 mil
McKinney: 15-18mil
Love: 11-13 mil
High end- there’s likely between 120-140mil yr that will be committed to these 6 players by 2025. All worth it (that’s about half of the cap projected cap)
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
It was fine to question Jones before this season. It was even fine to keep questioning him as the season went along.
But it's OK to admit to being wrong about the guy. Which you refuse to do.
Your thinking has been anything but "free thinking". You had - and still have - an agenda, and refuse to come off it.
The guy had done everything a REASONABLE person had to answer every question about him.
And yet, you continue with your nonsense...
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
You must not really like the Giants in all honesty. If you’re being this absurd about the quarterback who is ascending, then you really don’t care that much about the team success and just want to hold a weird opinion until the end of time.
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was that at least we are not going to have endless debates about Jones this week. Alas, I was wrong.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Is this a debate? Minus the handful that get offended, for the most part it’s people just discussing what the contract might look like.
If you don't see that this as devolved into many of the same tired arguments re Jones I don't know what to tell you
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
Producer, for the past year you have personally appeared on what has to be 100's of threads any time Daniel Jones name was mentioned, and attacked anything positive said about the guy's potential. In fact, just a couple of weeks back you pondered about "how will the Giants ever replace 15 TD passes?" in a snarky fashion. You have been consistent in your attacks on the Giants for even considering moving forward with Jones, and now you're not happy because others want you to admit you were wrong? It's like watching an internet bully crying "not fair!"
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
I wouldn't sweat it. Jones has been a very tough evaluation, even right now despite this run of quality play.
While he indeed could be turning the corner and heading for bigger things, he could also be on one of those QB "heaters" where you just get hot, along with the team - because they will feed off the hot QB - and suddenly you are winning big games.
So, I always ask why. Why is Jones suddenly performing this well into his fourth year?
Is Daboll a QB talisman who has done it again with Jones (like he did with Allen)? And it's only going to get better, especially with more talent?
Is he the beneficiary of a favorable schedule - allstarjim lays out very nicely (above) where Jones performed well and the games he was more average or < - and that's tilting the performance a certain way?
And is it the system and great coaching/development that have made it very easy for Jones to play and succeed at NFL football.
I really don't know, but it's a fascinating situation because all of the above is a reasonable POV (well, if you are honest) right now.
So, I always ask why. Why is Jones suddenly performing this well into his fourth year?
The answer is pretty simple, and has been staring you - and the other jones haters - in the face the entire time,
Jones has a good rookie year (minus the TO's), and then got saddled with the worst coaching staff of all time for TWO FUCKING YEARS (Joe fucking Judge and Jason fucking Garrett, for those of you who need to be reminded). Not to mention some truly awful skill position players (ie, he didn't have great talent like, for example, Williams/Allen/Eckler) and a brutal OL.
Then in year 4, he has a ALL-Pro LT, a healthy SB, some decent WR who he was able to elevate into very solid pieces and an actual TE who can both block and catch - as opposed to one who couldn't block for shit and tipped up at least six gimme INT to defensive backs (when he wasn't dropping game winning passes, of course).
Throw in some excellent coaching - finally - and voila! A star is born.
Again - this ain't rocket science. Very easy to follow. For those who don't have an agenda/narrative.
Well Judge/Garrett made Meyer look like Bill Belichick, and Jones was stuck with them for TWO years...
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
Possibly Lawrence? There are two players on this team right now that Joe Schoen would probably choose over any of them, and that’s Lawrence and Thomas. There is no way in hell that we aren’t resigning Lawrence.
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
And signing Hebert to a 50+ million dollar deal wont force LAC to say good bye to Williams, Allen and/or Eckler?
🙄
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
And signing Hebert to a 50+ million dollar deal wont force LAC to say good bye to Williams, Allen and/or Eckler?
🙄
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You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.
Are they going to hand him a Murray type contract? The answer is no. That means they need to see more before handing him that type of contract. What is so hard or offensive about this concept.
Jones is getting a contract this spring. Before he gets a franchise QB deal on his one after that the Giants need to see more. Where is the disconnect here?
Did I or anyone say they're going to hand him a Murray type contract? No, but it appears they are working on a multi-year deal. Not a 2 yr bridge or a tag to prove it again.
If they sign him to a 5 yr contract for something like 35M AAV (even if they include options after yr 3), how does that support your claim that "they need to see more"?
And if they tag him, as you suggest, and he has a better year next year (as many would expect with a 2nd yr in the system, improved OL and better WR corp.), then they might have to give him a Murray like contract, just to keep him. Would that be better?
I believe Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones a lot more than you do and they expect him to have a better year next year (statistically including wins) and they'd rather lock him up now vs. having to negotiate a long term contract following a better season next yr.
unbelievable.
some people seem to think elite QBs grow on trees. We just have to go pick one.
Did I or anyone say they're going to hand him a Murray type contract? No, but it appears they are working on a multi-year deal. Not a 2 yr bridge or a tag to prove it again.
If they sign him to a 5 yr contract for something like 35M AAV (even if they include options after yr 3), how does that support your claim that "they need to see more"?
And if they tag him, as you suggest, and he has a better year next year (as many would expect with a 2nd yr in the system, improved OL and better WR corp.), then they might have to give him a Murray like contract, just to keep him. Would that be better?
I believe Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones a lot more than you do and they expect him to have a better year next year (statistically including wins) and they'd rather lock him up now vs. having to negotiate a long term contract following a better season next yr.
What they sign him to this offseason is going to be irrelevant if he continues to improve. The contract will be ripped up long before it reaches its end, and they’re going to have to pay him with the best.
Since many keep missing the point about the comment about the tag, I’ll try to explain it better.
The Giants aren’t handing Jones a $45 or $50 million contract this season which means they need to see more from him before handing him that sized contract. That’s not really debatable, he’s not getting that amount. The comment regarding they can tag him, was in response to a comment that “he’s a free agent, they have to pay whatever he wants”. That’s simply not true. If Team Jones comes in asking for $40 million a year for 6 years and refuses to move off of it, the Giants will just tag him. The only downside for the Giants in that scenario is paying maybe $5 million more a year giving him a deal the year after the tag. But if Jones proves himself to be a $45 million, that extra $5 million is really irrelevant.
Can't wait.
Can't wait.
Where did I say that? Nothing I said is really disputable. Jones is going to get paid somewhere between the around $30-35 million in all likely hood. If Jones continues to improve aka shows the Giants more, he’s going to get $40-50 million the next time they have to pay him. Not sure why this is a narrative, or offensive at all. It’s exactly what is going to happen.
Things Daniel Jones can show after signing this contract that will lead to a bigger contract:
He can do this stretch over a full season, and multiple seasons.
That he can be a top 5 QB.
That he can stay healthy for multiple seasons in a row while not giving up his running game.
Showing the first two will get him paid like the best QBs in the league, not like Kirk Cousins.
There were a lot of members in that club. Granted, the cheerleaders of this faction were loud and frequent, which may have made the group seem larger than it was.
There were also a lot of folks who were in the doubt, but he might prove it category.
And a gray area, which a lot of people are going to use to delude themselves/others that weren't closer to hate than doubt.
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Many of us here feel the same way. With regards to Cousins, no one seems to acknowledge why their defense is absolute garage, despite their best player being on a rookie contract.
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
And signing Hebert to a 50+ million dollar deal wont force LAC to say good bye to Williams, Allen and/or Eckler?
🙄
Honestly, without knowing the specifics of their contract situations, moving on from that trio in the not so distant future is the move for the Chargers.
Allen is 30 going on 31 and is always hurt. People here don't want the Giants to pursue Hopkins if he is available and he's the same age.
Williams is 28 but I believe he had issues with his back early in his career and now he suffered another back injury. He could age quickly.
The endzone appears to just pull Ekeler in, but he is better off going forward if he could just play a Darren Sproles role with another back. He obviously is the best receiving RB in the game but The Chargers lacked a ground game all year and it really came back to bite them in the behind against the Jags. Plus he's 27 going on 28. The age where people want to end a potential Barkley contract because thats when RBs usually fall off a cliff.
Can't wait.
welcome to BBI
If the Giants and Jones agree to a short term deal, the Giants absolutely are looking for him to prove more.
If the Giants sign him to a mega, market pushing deal, there is a chance it’ll prove to be a mistake.
Oh but wait there is a third scenario … what if the Giants sign him to a multi-year deal that conveys into bigger money based on certain achievements? It’s almost like they have choices!
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Many of us here feel the same way. With regards to Cousins, no one seems to acknowledge why their defense is absolute garage, despite their best player being on a rookie contract.
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
Possibly Lawrence? There are two players on this team right now that Joe Schoen would probably choose over any of them, and that’s Lawrence and Thomas. There is no way in hell that we aren’t resigning Lawrence.
Here is the thing about the salary cap. Paying your QB 20% of the cap makes it really hard to have a good all around team. I am not saying Lawrence won't be resigned. But you are kidding yourself if you don't think it will have a significant impact on the team that will result in tough decisions for Schoen. I just don't want to hear any complaining from you when Jones doesn't have a great o-line or weapons. Or the defense sucks like Cousins with the Vikings.
But one thing for sure is that he doesn't have to show "more" to any of the BBI talking heads.
Daboll/Schoen have had a full year to evaluate him during training camp, practices, and film room sessions. They've seen how he handles adversity, how he handles pressure, and how well he responds to his coaches.
They've seen his steady progression from game to game, and not just from watching from a man cave, or sports bar.
To them, the vikings game was the culmination of all that hard work. It was not a surprise.
It's hard to believe that these professional evaluators do not know what he is at this point.
So one game won't make a difference in their decision making.
My guess is that they do know what they have, and they will pay him accordingly.
And it will be a contract that leaves no doubt he is their guy. (Again, just my guess)