Polled 3 ex-GMs on what to pay Daniel Jones:
One: 3 yrs, $35-38M per, around $70M guaranteed; 4 yrs & more $ if he beats Eagles
2nd: 2yr, $21-23M per yr bridge deal
3rd: Deals like Kyler Murray’s ($46.1M per, $160M g’d) make it hard to keep price down |
I think where it’s at right now is a mix of 1 and 2. 3 years, between $25 million and the tag. A repeat of the Vikings performance I think it’s get to a top number of $35 million. Don’t think it hits 4 years, doesn’t make too much sense for either side to do four years. If this is how he plays from here on out, they’ll be redoing the contract to pay him over $40 million before it gets to year 3.
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I think it’s more like $35-$38-$42M as a starting point, possibly an adjust between years based on a percentage of the yearly cap increase as a ‘higher of’ boosting that stated increase.
If they think DJ faultered after year 1, or year 2, they draft their QB.
If he’s proven himself , LW, AJ, and others are dropped or traded to get his contract redone and up to the league levels for top QBs.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
Listen to his comments about the ownership's regard for DJ, combined with the quotes that came out of the locker room on Sunday.
DJ is not getting offered a "2-year bridge" contract. This is going to be a 3-4 year deal near market rate (Leonard actually talks about the Kyler Murray contract ....yikes!).
Pat Leonard on Around the NFL - ( New Window )
On Murray I agree. IMO he was always overrated and he doesn't play well enough in the pocket to be a top QB. He's really more of an athlete playing QB, and frankly his running is his key thing
On Murray I agree. IMO he was always overrated and he doesn't play well enough in the pocket to be a top QB. He's really more of an athlete playing QB, and frankly his running is his key thing
He's a 10-year veteran, 8-year starter, who's 34 years old. His playoff record is 1-4, having never advanced past the divisional round of the playoffs. I strongly disagree. He can win a Super Bowl in the same way Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won the Super Bowl, going back to the above point...a lot of QBs can win with that.
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.
No they don't. He is ascending, the more they wait, the more it will cost.
If he continues to ascend, and he demonstrates he can play well and beat strong teams like Philly, you pay the higher price happily. I don't think Kansas City regrets paying Mahomes for a second.
No they don't. He is ascending, the more they wait, the more it will cost.
Not how it works. If Jones is the franchise QB some think, he’s not seeing the end of the 3 or 4 year deal he signs this spring. The deal will be reworked to pay him appropriately. “If they wait they pay more” doesn’t really matter because they’ll end up paying it anyway.
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In comment 16000608 JonC said:
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
The good thing is, you don't sign the checks, so no one cares. This was all done the moment he won that playoff game. They are locking him up for 5, bank on it. Also, this discussion is still silly. Like I said at 6-1 and 7-2, we need the whole season. With all due respect, much of what you said about Jones in the past makes you looks absolutely foolish today. Easy to find. If he beats Philly, it make it look even more foolish. Let the season play, root for the kid. You guys have no self awareness, the rest of the football world is mocking the fans still putting upgoal posts for Jones.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
Oh FFS, this is a discussion board where we, you know, discuss, opinions and such. Everyone knows are opinions don't mean anything to what happens, including yours, and the notion that he's going to be locked in for 5-years. That is not a done deal, the tag will be on the table, it has to be, because it's a critical negotiation piece.
Lol, yeah if you take out the fact that Tom Brady played in the AFC East for 15 seasons, he had a shitty career
He’s an ass, clearly hasn’t watched a Giants game this year. Him and Jason MacIntyre said he stunk 1.5 weeks ago. Not average, not a game manager, bad.
A lot of people forget he showed serious flashes his rookie year, he had a few multiple TD zero pick games. Obviously the turnovers were obscene but he showed promise. Shurmur stunk as a HC but was pretty innovative offensively.
Judge is where Jones got neutered and was asked to strictly game manage. Maybe in hindsight it was for the best, the turnovers are severely cut down and he’s starting to let it rip.
He is better now, and ceiling is way higher because of his legs.
This isn't a dig on Jones, because I agree at least with the notion that he could be ascending. In fact, it's clear he's ascended this year from last. But, his best games were against bad defenses, and the overall offensive output over the year was pedestrian. These are simple facts.
I really enjoyed Sy's re-cap of the Vikings game and agree whole-heartedly with his assessment:
So, it's up to Jones to show that he can check that last box, play like this week in, week out, no matter the opponent.
This team went 9-6-1. If I only look at the numbers, the season-long output, the season results, the feeling I get is an average starting QB. It's the recent results, read: small sample, against bad defenses, but also signs that he CAN be THE MAN, that has me hopeful. I'm hopeful, many of you have decided he is what he's shown in that small sample.
I hope to hell you are all right.
Thanks, Jon. And I'll say this once more...I root like hell for Daniel. You should see me on gameday. I look like the President of the DJFC.
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag.
No..The Giants do not need to see anymore. It is YOU who wants to see it for another year.
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Cowherd just slammed him calling him a C- QB. Said if you take out the two Viking games with an atrocious defense his passing production is very poor.
He’s an ass, clearly hasn’t watched a Giants game this year. Him and Jason MacIntyre said he stunk 1.5 weeks ago. Not average, not a game manager, bad.
A lot of people forget he showed serious flashes his rookie year, he had a few multiple TD zero pick games. Obviously the turnovers were obscene but he showed promise. Shurmur stunk as a HC but was pretty innovative offensively.
Judge is where Jones got neutered and was asked to strictly game manage. Maybe in hindsight it was for the best, the turnovers are severely cut down and he’s starting to let it rip.
Right. The receiving and pass pro has also been generally below average to piss poor his entire career both at Duke and here with us. His performances have to be assessed within that context.Think it's partially why they selected him at 6 overall they said his ability to deal with adversity was basically special.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
allstarjim and I have butted heads before, but he is a good poster. He is thoughtful and tries to offer data and examples to support his position. I have never felt he was projecting any hate for DJ.
allstarjim and I have butted heads before, but he is a good poster. He is thoughtful and tries to offer data and examples to support his position. I have never felt he was projecting any hate for DJ.
Didn't you say this exact same sentence about Terps?
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In comment 16000793 allstarjim said:
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In comment 16000608 JonC said:
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
The good thing is, you don't sign the checks, so no one cares. This was all done the moment he won that playoff game. They are locking him up for 5, bank on it. Also, this discussion is still silly. Like I said at 6-1 and 7-2, we need the whole season. With all due respect, much of what you said about Jones in the past makes you looks absolutely foolish today. Easy to find. If he beats Philly, it make it look even more foolish. Let the season play, root for the kid. You guys have no self awareness, the rest of the football world is mocking the fans still putting upgoal posts for Jones.
This is done,
Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.
Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.
The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.
Who wants to wager real money?
Done deal.
Oh FFS, this is a discussion board where we, you know, discuss, opinions and such. Everyone knows are opinions don't mean anything to what happens, including yours, and the notion that he's going to be locked in for 5-years. That is not a done deal, the tag will be on the table, it has to be, because it's a critical negotiation piece.
he played his best of game of the season to clinch the playoffs.
He won he is first playoff game AND was the reason they won. Your position is rooted in the fact that you think you are correct in previous evaluations of Jones.
Claiming he is your guy if he beats the number 1 seed to reach the championship game was one of the most self important and least self aware threads created here.
Of course you will.
I did not believe this was possible for Jones. I was with you on this. I did not think he would improve his ability to process fast enough to succeed in the red zone. He was 8th this year in red zone efficiency.
THE GAME SLOWED DOWN.
He got better before my eyes.
Objectively better.
Subjectively too, he is killing the eye test.
The declined his 5th year option.
Can you imagine the pressure every single game was this year for Jones under that light?
When you add context to his season, he KILLED.
I didn't say a bridge was in the works, can it.
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag.
No..The Giants do not need to see anymore. It is YOU who wants to see it for another year.
Hate to break it to you, but if the Giants didn’t need to see it happen for another year he’d be getting something along the lines of the Murray deal. I’d wager that’s not going to be the case.
Jones has played well the past few weeks, but you’re kidding yourself if you think the Giants are content and don’t need to see improvement again next year.
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In comment 16000561 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
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He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!
The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag.
No..The Giants do not need to see anymore. It is YOU who wants to see it for another year.
Hate to break it to you, but if the Giants didn’t need to see it happen for another year he’d be getting something along the lines of the Murray deal. I’d wager that’s not going to be the case.
Jones has played well the past few weeks, but you’re kidding yourself if you think the Giants are content and don’t need to see improvement again next year.
Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
Signing a player long term also means you are confident in their ability to improve, otherwise you wouldn't sign that player.
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There is no bridge deal with Jones. He's the franchise QB that both Mara and Tisch want. Enough with that already.
I didn't say a bridge was in the works, can it.
No - you suggested they can't do a bridge now because of the last few games. They don't want to do a bridge. They want him to be the franchise QB with no strings attached. If we're in agreement there, I'll can it.
2023 - $12M signing + $15M base + $5M roster bonus ($32M cap)
2024 - $12M signing + $20M base + $5M roster bonus ($37M cap)
2025 - $12M signing + $25M base ($37M cap)
2026 - $12M signing + $30M base ($42M cap)
2027 - $12M signing void year dead money ($12M cap).
I don't think Schoen is going to commit to a deal that makes it harder to move on from Jones in 2 years from a cap POV than simply putting the franchise tag on him for 2 years. Jones will get 50% of the cash value in Year 1 which is better than playing on the franchise tag. Jones has played well this year, but I am not sure there are too many other teams willing to give him more than a 2-3 year contract. Other teams have seen what happened to the Vikings with Kirk Cousins and may opt to try their luck in the draft before paying Jones.
Signing a player long term also means you are confident in their ability to improve, otherwise you wouldn't sign that player.
You got to start reading full discussions and not just one comment. Where did I say they wouldn’t? He’s getting a 3 or 4 year deal. The comment about them needing to see more was part of a comment in regards to “he’s a free agent going to have to pay him whatever he wants”.
The Giants don’t, they can still tag him if the money or years is higher than they want to go.
2023 - $12M signing + $15M base + $5M roster bonus ($32M cap)
2024 - $12M signing + $20M base + $5M roster bonus ($37M cap)
2025 - $12M signing + $25M base ($37M cap)
2026 - $12M signing + $30M base ($42M cap)
2027 - $12M signing void year dead money ($12M cap).
I don't think Schoen is going to commit to a deal that makes it harder to move on from Jones in 2 years from a cap POV than simply putting the franchise tag on him for 2 years. Jones will get 50% of the cash value in Year 1 which is better than playing on the franchise tag. Jones has played well this year, but I am not sure there are too many other teams willing to give him more than a 2-3 year contract. Other teams have seen what happened to the Vikings with Kirk Cousins and may opt to try their luck in the draft before paying Jones.
I think you’re on the right path, but one less year with the same type of guaranteed money you stated.
No name, I pay it no mind.
Imagine the amount of $$$ a 28-year old Daniel Jones could get if he plays 3 more years like this and they get him a #1 WR/improved supporting cast?
Theoretically, his value's at his lowest right now than at any point in the next 3 years.
From Jones perspective, a 3-year deal may be the sweet spot between locking up a good chunk of change now and working towards a monster payday in 2026.
Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.
It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.
Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.
I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.
And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.
To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.
That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.
I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.
Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.
And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.
You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.
These posts all ignore what those teams look like if they DO NOT pay the QB or they imply that said teams would be better off not paying the "overpaid" QB.
It's not that simple. It's awfully convenient for some of you to assume the best if the Vikings don't pay Cousins. Where are they now? Go look at WASH and tell me that franchise is better off without Cousins. Are they winning titles? Probably not. ALmost definitely not. Are they in playoffs more often the last 3-4-5 years? PRobably so. How do you win an NFL title? Get to the playoffs.
Of course it's a bad thing being hitched to a NON elite QB but it's hard to predict which QBs can or can't win super bowls. All you have is good or not good. Some Good QBs win super bowls. Most do not. Some great ones win too. And some do not.
You can't just put this whole QB paying debate thing in a nice little box with a bow on top and proclaim "paying the average QB is bad and QB hell"--IT IS NOT THAT EASY. QB hell is having a bad QB or no QB at all. Let's establish that right now. Even if WASH wasn't paying Prince Harry, they'd still be in QB hell because they don't have one. HEnikie is cheap. And he sucks.
The money is a factor, having the player is a bigger factor. Bird in the hand.
You may think that but Herbert is getting $50 million on his deal next year. That’s already basically done. We’re talking specifically about contracts handed out, not who’s better.
Everything about Jones is offensive to you, my god.