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Leonard: ex GM Poll on Jones contract.

ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 10:42 am
Quote:
Polled 3 ex-GMs on what to pay Daniel Jones:

One: 3 yrs, $35-38M per, around $70M guaranteed; 4 yrs & more $ if he beats Eagles

2nd: 2yr, $21-23M per yr bridge deal

3rd: Deals like Kyler Murray’s ($46.1M per, $160M g’d) make it hard to keep price down


I think where it’s at right now is a mix of 1 and 2. 3 years, between $25 million and the tag. A repeat of the Vikings performance I think it’s get to a top number of $35 million. Don’t think it hits 4 years, doesn’t make too much sense for either side to do four years. If this is how he plays from here on out, they’ll be redoing the contract to pay him over $40 million before it gets to year 3.
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RE: ...  
chick310 : 1/18/2023 1:51 pm : link
In comment 16000960 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.


I think your second is over.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/18/2023 1:52 pm : link
Who is the one offended? You're the only poster alive right now besides Producer who is still somehow waiting for Jones to be average again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
Thegratefulhead : 1/18/2023 1:53 pm : link
In comment 16000952 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16000920 mittenedman said:


Quote:



Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.



It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.
Jones can still win the Superbowl this year.

What if Daniel Jones is the MVP of the Superbowl?

Before you laugh at me, I want to remind you that we have already won a playoff game.

Am I the only one that believes we can win the Superbowl?

If Daniel Jones wins the Superbowl and is the MVP, what does his contract look like?

Some of you should shut and spend a day or 2 reflecting.

I don't know why some of you are fans.

This is the best story every.

The only part of this story that might be bad is that you might have said a lot of stupid shit on fan board.

You were wrong, so what.

Get over yourselves.

Get on board.

RE: RE: ...  
ryanmkeane : 1/18/2023 1:53 pm : link
In comment 16000970 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 16000960 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.



I think your second is over.

i forgot chick310 as well. You guys can facetime if Jones slips up and they lose Saturday.
RE: RE: RE: JonC  
JonC : 1/18/2023 1:54 pm : link
In comment 16000923 mittenedman said:
Quote:
In comment 16000899 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 16000893 mittenedman said:


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There is no bridge deal with Jones. He's the franchise QB that both Mara and Tisch want. Enough with that already.



I didn't say a bridge was in the works, can it.



No - you suggested they can't do a bridge now because of the last few games. They don't want to do a bridge. They want him to be the franchise QB with no strings attached. If we're in agreement there, I'll can it.


I would expect competent and thorough executives to have largely made their decision by now. The last three victories certainly would help bolster a position. My comment was more to the player's agent and leverage increased by Jones' performance the last three wins, be it optics or how much more he can demand in compensation. Make no mistake, Jones and the Giants are a different player and team than they were before the Colts game. They've taken it up a few notches these past three victories.

Btw, how do you know what they want?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
djm : 1/18/2023 1:55 pm : link
In comment 16000952 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16000920 mittenedman said:


Quote:



Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.



It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.


lol some of you will find any way to keep those heals dug in.

Jon  
ryanmkeane : 1/18/2023 1:56 pm : link
whats your prediction as of now? 4 for 150?
RE: it is far more riskier and dangerous  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16000963 djm said:
Quote:
to not pay the good QB you have in your coffers. The best GMs of this era have done this time and time again. Ask yourself why? Despite 1000s of you posting that it's bad or hell or whatever, they mostly ALL DO IT. Time and time again. Why did Dallas do it? No one has run a better football factory than Dallas lately. They still paid Dak.

The money is a factor, having the player is a bigger factor. Bird in the hand.


The Giants are going to pay him, and Team Jones isn’t asking for $45 million a year so the debates are really irrelevant. The range of what they settle on is going to be five or take at max $5 million from the tag number. The only major changes from here on it is the number of guaranteed dollars.

If it’s a 3 year deal I think it ends of 3/96 with 70-80 guaranteed. Dont get caught up too much on the stated guaranteed figure on an 3 year deal. Effective guarantees are basically going to be fully guaranteed in all likely hood, since they won’t be cutting him before the 3rd season. For him not to see every dime of a 3 year deal they’d have draft someone in 2024 or someone in 2025 that is ready to go day 1. Seems unlikely if the team stays on this trajectory.

If they won’t budge on a 4 year deal I think it ends up somewhere between 108 million and 120 million, with listed guarantees of 90.
..  
ryanmkeane : 1/18/2023 1:57 pm : link
there is zero chance that Jones is accepting 70-80M guaranteed. That number will start with a 1.
RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 1:58 pm : link
In comment 16000972 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Who is the one offended? You're the only poster alive right now besides Producer who is still somehow waiting for Jones to be average again.


How am I waiting for him to be average? I’m expecting him to play well on Saturday. We’re even throwing out similar contract figures. Christ you’re a piece of work man.
honestly  
djm : 1/18/2023 1:58 pm : link
it's late January. We have a game this week. Jones is playing like a monster right now and we're obsessing over the god damned contract.
Who the fuck cares. You want Jones here for a few more years at the very least? You pay him what young good or very good QBs get in FA and move the fuck on. Enough with the hand-wringing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 1:58 pm : link
In comment 16000979 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16000952 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16000920 mittenedman said:


Quote:



Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.



It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.



lol some of you will find any way to keep those heals dug in.


Is Jones getting a Murray sized deal this spring? If no, why not?
RE: ..  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16000987 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
there is zero chance that Jones is accepting 70-80M guaranteed. That number will start with a 1.


Like I said, a three year deal is effectively fully guaranteed barring complete disaster or injury and team Jones knows that regardless of what the stated guarantees are.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
speedywheels : 1/18/2023 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16000952 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16000920 mittenedman said:


Quote:



Did you read Mara and Tisch's comments? It's over.



It’s over in terms that Jones is getting a contract. But he’s not getting a Murray or potential Herbert sized contract. Which means that the Giants need to see more before handing over that size of a deal. Not sure why this is a hard concept. Multiple things are allowed to be true at once. The Giants like Jones and have seen enough over the past month to give him a sizable next contract, but not enough to hand over $240 million over 5 or 6 years yet.


I think we are all in agreement that he's not going to get that kind of deal. But he's also not getting a bridge deal like moron ex GM suggested in #2. He'll get a 4-5 year deal, IMO (As I stated above), at above market rates.

The Chargers are going to box themselves in a corner - one of the reasons why Hebert looks as good as he does is having Williams, Allen and Eckler. Signing Hebert to such a big contract will hamper their abilities to sign any\all of them. They better hope they draft their replacements well...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: After the last three wins  
ChrisRick : 1/18/2023 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16000892 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16000827 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16000820 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 16000793 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16000608 JonC said:


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and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.



Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.

I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.

And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.

To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.

That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.

I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.

Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.

And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.

You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.


The good thing is, you don't sign the checks, so no one cares. This was all done the moment he won that playoff game. They are locking him up for 5, bank on it. Also, this discussion is still silly. Like I said at 6-1 and 7-2, we need the whole season. With all due respect, much of what you said about Jones in the past makes you looks absolutely foolish today. Easy to find. If he beats Philly, it make it look even more foolish. Let the season play, root for the kid. You guys have no self awareness, the rest of the football world is mocking the fans still putting upgoal posts for Jones.

This is done,

Jones is my guy and he going to be yours for the next 5 years. Does not matter if he loses to the Eagles.

Jones will sign a 5 year deal with the NY Giants in this offseason.

The owner loves him and we won a playoff game because Jones played GREAT.

Who wants to wager real money?

Done deal.




Oh FFS, this is a discussion board where we, you know, discuss, opinions and such. Everyone knows are opinions don't mean anything to what happens, including yours, and the notion that he's going to be locked in for 5-years. That is not a done deal, the tag will be on the table, it has to be, because it's a critical negotiation piece.

I am here discussing it with you. Not telling you to not talk about it but you can admit milestones have completely changed this discussion happened that have changed this discussion.

he played his best of game of the season to clinch the playoffs.

He won he is first playoff game AND was the reason they won. Your position is rooted in the fact that you think you are correct in previous evaluations of Jones.

Claiming he is your guy if he beats the number 1 seed to reach the championship game was one of the most self important and least self aware threads created here.

Of course you will.

I did not believe this was possible for Jones. I was with you on this. I did not think he would improve his ability to process fast enough to succeed in the red zone. He was 8th this year in red zone efficiency.

THE GAME SLOWED DOWN.

He got better before my eyes.

Objectively better.

Subjectively too, he is killing the eye test.

The declined his 5th year option.

Can you imagine the pressure every single game was this year for Jones under that light?

When you add context to his season, he KILLED.









What I don't get is how Daboll and Schoen could not tell by watching the games that Jones was not worth keeping. You said yourself TGH that you did not even have to watch an extended film or all-22 because you saw enough on gameday that Jones was 'epic bad'. Epic bad should have been easy to spot for Daboll and Schoen which probably should have made their decision for them to not continue on with Jones in any way shape or form. The most they did was not pickup his 5th year option which said they probably needed to see him for themselves before making a more important decision about Jones' future. Why would Daboll and Schoen go into this season with a qb that was so obviously bad that even fans could see it? You could argue it would have been a lot wiser to cut ties with a bad quarterback to give an unknown commodity a chance, or even just go with Tyrod Taylor.

I wonder if Daboll and Schoen thought perhaps Jones' surroundings made it very difficult for him to improve.
NYG  
djm : 1/18/2023 2:00 pm : link
are virtually paying NO ONE right now. No one long term other than Leo and Jackson. GAlladay will be off of coming off the books soon.

Relax. We are going all in with these younger players we drafted, all about to enter their respective primes on 2nd contracts. We are poised and primed to re-sign all of our own and have room to fill holes. We have a lot of draft picks.

Everything is fine. Forget about the money and just enjoy this team and roster. They are in a great place. Guys will get paid. Make peace with it and relax.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
chick310 : 1/18/2023 2:02 pm : link
In comment 16000976 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16000970 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 16000960 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.



I think your second is over.


i forgot chick310 as well. You guys can facetime if Jones slips up and they lose Saturday.


No, we hope the Giants win and Jones is one of the reasons why.

But the way you are trending today on DJ, he will be passing up Mahomes in the rankings by 4pm and probably Roger Staubach and Joe Montana by dinnertime.
Speedy #2  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 2:03 pm : link
Is off in years and money.

It’s going to end up 3 or 4 years. I think 3 is where they settle on, which gives Jones a chance to get $45 or $50 million a year from age 28-34.
and if some crazy scenario unfolds  
djm : 1/18/2023 2:04 pm : link
where Jones turns into a pumpkin, which is probably next to impossible to fathom since he works hard and can obviously flourish in this system, but if he were to get injured or fall apart, you suck it up and cut the deal out and eat shit for a year or two. That's life in the NFL. George Young said it and Gil Brandt echoed it--something along the lines of "you do your due diligence with the coaches and players and try and gather up as many winning pieces--sign em, and then you pray"

Nothing is guaranteed. But we're paying Jones and we should pay Jones. He's why we made the playoffs and why we're still in the playoffs. HE's the goods until proven otherwise.

And what if he's THIS good. IF you can't allow that dream to creep into your head as an NYG fan, why the hell are you even watching.
3 straight games now  
djm : 1/18/2023 2:07 pm : link
Jones has played like a flat out super star. This after playing well and even very well at times all year long.

3 straight weeks. SUPER STAR.

What if he keeps this up. Sorry am I not allowed to go there? Well I am.
If Jones keeps it up  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 2:08 pm : link
Whatever contract they sign this spring gets ripped up fairly quickly.
RE: Jon  
JonC : 1/18/2023 2:09 pm : link
In comment 16000983 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
whats your prediction as of now? 4 for 150?


If the scoops posted here last week are accurate, it sounds like they're stuck on 3 years. I would think 3/105 is the approximate floor for Schoen to begin negotiating. But my view of Jones could be different than Schoen's, on that I don't know. His agent probably started at 5/200+, but the last two years really are probably vanity years.
#10 AAV QB is Cousins at$35m  
Carl in CT : 1/18/2023 2:09 pm : link
I think that number is fair for both sides. With more passing that number this offseason. I think the longer the Giants (and he) the market value would increase. I hope we can get it done right after the season. Am I wrong?
One thing that always worries me about Jones  
cosmicj : 1/18/2023 2:11 pm : link
Is how stressed he looks out on the field. He’s trying really hard. Stress interferes with flow and focus. Just calming down may allow better mental processing and field vision.
RE: 3 straight games now  
Sean : 1/18/2023 2:13 pm : link
In comment 16001016 djm said:
Quote:
Jones has played like a flat out super star. This after playing well and even very well at times all year long.

3 straight weeks. SUPER STAR.

What if he keeps this up. Sorry am I not allowed to go there? Well I am.

Yes. Big level in opponent this week though.
what a useless article.  
japanhead : 1/18/2023 2:27 pm : link
3 anonymous ex-GMs, wow.

doesn't seem like leonard knows how polling works.

if jones asks for the moon he'll get franchised, simple as that.
My best guess at  
bigbluehoya : 1/18/2023 2:30 pm : link
a reasonably good deal for both sides would be:

$190M / 5 years, $125M guaranteed

$60M signing bonus.

Salaries of $16M (gtd) / $21M (gtd) / $28M (gtd) / $30M / $35M.

Cap hits of $28 / $33 / $40 / $42 / $47

And with that I'm sure it will end up looking nothing like this. But these are numbers that I think I'd be rather happy with whether I try to put myself in Jones shoes or NYG shoes.
RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
Dr. D : 1/18/2023 2:32 pm : link
In comment 16000561 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16000540 bluewave said:


Quote:


He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!



The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.

You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.

It's very possible JS and Daboll don't want to tag him because they expect him to take another leap next year (with a 2nd year in the system, improved pass pro and a better WR corps). It's very possible they expect Jones to have a better season statistically next year and would rather negotiate a longer term deal now vs '24 when his price tag will most likely be higher.

It's very possible JS and Daboll believe in Jones, unlike a dwindling few on BBI.

My guess would be  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/18/2023 2:33 pm : link
Saquon gets 4 years in the range of 14-15m per year.

Jones also gets 4 years, but in the range of 36-38m per year.

Doing that would put Saquon in the top 5 amongst RBs in AAV, and Jones in the top 10.
RE: One thing that always worries me about Jones  
ryanmkeane : 1/18/2023 2:34 pm : link
In comment 16001026 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Is how stressed he looks out on the field. He’s trying really hard. Stress interferes with flow and focus. Just calming down may allow better mental processing and field vision.

Is that a joke?
RE: JonC  
JonC : 1/18/2023 2:34 pm : link
In comment 16000893 mittenedman said:
Quote:
There is no bridge deal with Jones. He's the franchise QB that both Mara and Tisch want. Enough with that already.


I think your reference to Mara and Tisch is the missing context here about "how do you know". Is there a link to read it?
RE: RE: One thing that always worries me about Jones  
Big Blue '56 : 1/18/2023 2:36 pm : link
In comment 16001070 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16001026 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Is how stressed he looks out on the field. He’s trying really hard. Stress interferes with flow and focus. Just calming down may allow better mental processing and field vision.


Is that a joke?


Yes
RE: RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
ajr2456 : 1/18/2023 2:37 pm : link
In comment 16001067 Dr. D said:
Quote:

You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.


Are they going to hand him a Murray type contract? The answer is no. That means they need to see more before handing him that type of contract. What is so hard or offensive about this concept.

Jones is getting a contract this spring. Before he gets a franchise QB deal on his one after that the Giants need to see more. Where is the disconnect here?

RE: My guess would be  
CromartiesKid21 : 1/18/2023 2:42 pm : link
In comment 16001068 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
Saquon gets 4 years in the range of 14-15m per year.

Jones also gets 4 years, but in the range of 36-38m per year.

Doing that would put Saquon in the top 5 amongst RBs in AAV, and Jones in the top 10.


FT tag for RB is 12M a year...we would have to structure that contract back heavy to reap any benefit (which I wouldn't want to do for a RB)
RE: RE: After the last three wins  
The Mike : 1/18/2023 2:45 pm : link
In comment 16000793 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 16000608 JonC said:


Quote:


and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.



Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.

I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.

And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.

To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.

That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.

I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.

Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.

And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.

You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.


Great post Jim.
I don’t see less than $40m AAV, something like 5/200  
BillT : 1/18/2023 3:14 pm : link
Hey, what do I know but I think that’s actually a bit of a bargain. However, I’m pretty certain that those first two contracts in the OP are a joke.
RE: RE: ...  
Tom from LI : 1/18/2023 3:14 pm : link
In comment 16000967 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16000960 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


ajr, again with the Herbert stuff. As of this second, Jones is on the same level as Herbert.



You may think that but Herbert is getting $50 million on his deal next year. That’s already basically done. We’re talking specifically about contracts handed out, not who’s better.

Everything about Jones is offensive to you, my god.


Herbert is Nerfy... soft. He doesn't deserve 50 million when he couldn't step up and put the team and offense on his back and put away the Jags when they started mounting their comeback.

Win a playoff game and get back to me on 50 mil.
Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks both said  
BSIMatt : 1/18/2023 3:18 pm : link
They thought the number would start with a 4(40mill+).

Just the economics, and where the market is headed. They said after Herbert/Burrow deals get done it will put it in context.
RE: RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
Thegratefulhead : 1/18/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16001067 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 16000561 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16000540 bluewave said:


Quote:


He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!



The Giants still need to see him do it for another year, and they have the franchise tag. If the ask gets too far above the tag number they’ll just tag him and see if he can repeat the last three weeks.


You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.

It's very possible JS and Daboll don't want to tag him because they expect him to take another leap next year (with a 2nd year in the system, improved pass pro and a better WR corps). It's very possible they expect Jones to have a better season statistically next year and would rather negotiate a longer term deal now vs '24 when his price tag will most likely be higher.

It's very possible JS and Daboll believe in Jones, unlike a dwindling few on BBI.
Look for a Diggs like get. It is reasonable for Daboll and Schoen to believe that Jones may very well grow in his second year in this system if they get him a legit THREAT.
RE: I think people forgot that  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/18/2023 3:23 pm : link
In comment 16000540 bluewave said:
Quote:
He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!


They can always tag him. He’s it totally free per se. I’m of a big fan of tagging As you don’t want to have to overpay IMO of he isn’t a good next year or you the. Have to give him a mega deal if he kills it next year.

The reality is it’s always about the guaranteed cash. Always
RE: RE: One thing that always worries me about Jones  
BillKo : 1/18/2023 3:24 pm : link
In comment 16001070 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16001026 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Is how stressed he looks out on the field. He’s trying really hard. Stress interferes with flow and focus. Just calming down may allow better mental processing and field vision.


Is that a joke?


WTF kinda comment is this? lol.....i guess it is a joke I am laughing. And SMH.
RE: ...  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/18/2023 3:25 pm : link
In comment 16000962 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if I'm Jones I want the most guaranteed money in case of injury. I'll take the 3 year 100M fully guaranteed deal if thats on the table.


He’s not getting that from anyone. Unless we win the Super Bowl. Then who cares lol
Herbert will score $50M AAV  
JonC : 1/18/2023 3:25 pm : link
have no fear.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: After the last three wins  
bw in dc : 1/18/2023 3:27 pm : link
In comment 16000891 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16000880 bw in dc said:


Quote:




allstarjim and I have butted heads before, but he is a good poster. He is thoughtful and tries to offer data and examples to support his position. I have never felt he was projecting any hate for DJ.


Didn't you say this exact same sentence about Terps?


Probably. And?

I'm continually amazed how many posters can't manage strong/different opinions and personalities. Maybe I'm just wound differently, but are way too many posters who take this stuff too seriously and personally.

RE: RE: RE: After the last three wins  
allstarjim : 1/18/2023 3:29 pm : link
In comment 16000954 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16000793 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 16000608 JonC said:


Quote:


and Jones' performance, I don't see how you put the toothpaste back in the tube with his agent and try to secure a bridge deal. That ship has very likely sailed.



Agreed, Jon. I think it's a tag or a 5-year deal.

I hate to start something, I think our opinions are well known, but if you sign him to a 5-year deal, they are no longer dating, they are married to Jones.

And to many here, that's a reason to pop bottles. As we've both discussed, beating good teams, demonstrating he can beat Philly and Dallas, those are important factors.

To my detractors, of which I know there are many, here's where you don't want to be...the Vikings or the Cardinals. Married to a QB that is good enough to look the part a lot of the time, but not good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. And paying a premium for it.

That is called QB-hell. That is year over year, sometimes getting to the dance, never going that far, and that's the ceiling.

I agreed with that great article about Cousins posted yesterday, he'll never be a Super Bowl winning QB. And sure, you can try to put a dominant defense around him, premium assets on the OL and playmakers. But you can have success in that scenario with a lot of QBs around the league. That is not what you pay premium QB dollars for.

Of course you always are trying to improve the whole team, and ideally you have all those components with a premium QB in tow, but it's a incredibly hard thing to do, and to maintain that you have to be on the good side of the injury luck equation as well. It's why the great Giants' defenses of yesteryear only won two Lombardis. Eventually, Lawrence Taylor gets hurt and it's a lost year.

And the other component to this is the risk of injury to DJ himself. He took some hits in that Vikings game. Any QB that relies a great deal on his legs is going to have a higher potential for injury, as we've already seen thus far in his career.

You brought up Murray, and I'll tell you, if I'm Schoen, and I know this is much easier said than practically applied, but I'm saying that just because the Cardinals made a bad contract, that doesn't mean I'm paying top-5 money for a guy who doesn't check all the boxes.




These posts all ignore what those teams look like if they DO NOT pay the QB or they imply that said teams would be better off not paying the "overpaid" QB.

It's not that simple. It's awfully convenient for some of you to assume the best if the Vikings don't pay Cousins. Where are they now? Go look at WASH and tell me that franchise is better off without Cousins. Are they winning titles? Probably not. ALmost definitely not. Are they in playoffs more often the last 3-4-5 years? PRobably so. How do you win an NFL title? Get to the playoffs.

Of course it's a bad thing being hitched to a NON elite QB but it's hard to predict which QBs can or can't win super bowls. All you have is good or not good. Some Good QBs win super bowls. Most do not. Some great ones win too. And some do not.

You can't just put this whole QB paying debate thing in a nice little box with a bow on top and proclaim "paying the average QB is bad and QB hell"--IT IS NOT THAT EASY. QB hell is having a bad QB or no QB at all. Let's establish that right now. Even if WASH wasn't paying Prince Harry, they'd still be in QB hell because they don't have one. HEnikie is cheap. And he sucks.


See, that's where we part ways. Strongly disagree. Paying a QB that has a capped ceiling in a long-term deal (a la Cousins) is QB hell.

I agree Heinicke stinks. But here's what he doesn't do...there is virtually no opportunity cost to Heinicke. He doesn't preclude them from acquiring a potentially better QB. And because bad teams with nothing at QB likely will have draft picks in the top 5 or so, the opportunity to draft a superb talent is much greater than a team like the Vikings, who will be drafting in the 20s again.

I'd much rather be the team who sucks for a year but has the opportunity to draft a top talent, while acknowledging that they are no guarantees (in anything), than having a QB that consumes an out-sized percentage of the cap for half a decade, while having the team hamstrung from making more impactful moves in free agency to a degree.

Yes, I get it, there are teams that perpetually draft at the top and go many years without finding the guy. But if the Giants sign Jones to a 5-year deal, he better be the goods, because there is nobody coming in on a white horse to rescue them from that. If he strings together a bunch of relatively mediocre seasons where the Giants never advance past the divisional round, it will have been a disaster by the end.

In other words, would you rather take a bunch of ok seasons where the Giants are competitive and win a bunch of games against bad teams, and lose all the games against the better teams, never really having a realistic shot at a Super Bowl, or would you rather suck out loud for a year and perhaps land a top prospect like Caleb Williams, who at least gives you renewed hope that you can have a run of being one of those better teams that beat up on the average, not-quite-there teams with mediocrity at QB?

There's no wrong answer here, because one could make the argument that you can have that magical run with a mediocre QB where everything falls into place, and the team is excellent on the defensive side of the ball, for example, and win a title. That's certainly more possible with a Kirk Cousins than it is with a Taylor Heinicke.

But as I've stated, my hope is to have a premium talent that puts the Giants in contention year after year after year.

Love him or hate him, Ben Roethlisberger had the Steelers in the playoffs just about every year. Peyton Manning same. Drew Brees (more years than not). And sure, I know what's coming..."oh ASJ, you just want Schoen to just magically manifest a HOF QB." I didn't say it's easy. I'm saying I'd rather take my shots at getting the next one than being stuck in an extended cycle of mediocrity. And squeaking into the playoffs and having early exits would be mediocre for me.

And don't twist my words here. I've repeatedly said Jones can be that if he continues to play like he has recently, particularly against good teams. If he keeps this up, I am totally here for it. I am rooting for that, I want it to happen. I want DJ to be thought of in the class of Josh Allen and Joe Burrow. And there is a chance we will witness him get there based on the results in these playoffs and next season.

But the point is, if he never does take that next step, showing he can play great against great teams, and he signs that big 5-year deal, it's going to hurt the franchise. We will continue to flounder behind the Eagles and Cowboys for the next 5 years, unless Schoen is able to acquire superlative talent all around him, the team stays relatively healthy, and we make one of those magical runs.

But if you're the Texans, for example, while you may not have a franchise QB, you can yet still find one, with nothing currently on the roster holding you back. There is no guy making $35M+ blocking anything they do. It is wide open for them. Maybe they land CJ Stroud or Bryce Young, and maybe one of those guys is the next great NFL QB. Maybe not. But if they hit, they are going to turn the entire franchise's fortunes around very quickly.

And then there's the Raiders. He played 9 years for the Raiders, made something like $135M dollars, made the playoffs just twice, and has an 0-2 playoff record.

Now imagine you're the GM of the Raiders in 2017 or the GM of the Texans in 2023. The former is going to pay Derek Carr for status quo huge money, the latter may get the top QB in the draft class, with again, no promises. Which GM would you rather be. Sure, there's some hindsight to this, but to me, Carr's results back then were entirely predictable. He's a good QB, not great. I'd rather be the Texans' GM right now. I really hope the Giants don't find themselves in the same spot the Raiders have been over these past years.

Finally, I'm still rooting for DJ to make these concerns silly in retrospect.
Public comments by the Maras/Tisch from the NYPost after Vikings game:  
mittenedman : 1/18/2023 3:30 pm : link
Quote:
John Mara was stopped in the middle of this joyous Giants locker room and marveled at the way his franchise quarterback performed.

“To me, it was the poise,” Mara said. “That building is as loud as can be, and you look at him, and he’s in complete control of the offense. It gave me a lot of confidence that I don’t care how many times they score, we’re gonna score more.”

I asked Mara when it became a finality to him that Daniel Jones would be his Quarterback of the Future.

“It was a while ago I think … he just keeps getting better and better every week,” Mara said.

Mara laughed when it was suggested that he got the succession plan for Eli right (yes, with former GM Dave Gettleman’s help) and said: “Hey I can’t screw up everything, I gotta get something right.”

Kid brother Chris Mara: “We got somebody going forward.”

Asked what he thought of his quarterback, Steve Tisch smiled and said: “The world.”



It's over, and it won't be a bridge deal.

Daniel Jones proves himself to be QB Giants dreamed of - ( New Window )
RE: Herbert will score $50M AAV  
Tom from LI : 1/18/2023 3:32 pm : link
In comment 16001138 JonC said:
Quote:
have no fear.


Honestly, I couldn't care less.

He is not worth it at this juncture.

you've got a QB..  
BillKo : 1/18/2023 3:34 pm : link
with size, mobility, pretty good arm, leadership......in his fourth year and just 25 finally puts together a good season with a very good coaching staff.

You can see the confidence as well.

To assume he puts up better numbers as the talent around him gets better seems very attainable.

Also, it's a pretty good indicator how he played last week that on a good team - he can take this team pretty far.

RE: RE: I think people forgot that  
BillT : 1/18/2023 3:37 pm : link
In comment 16001133 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 16000540 bluewave said:


Quote:


He's a free agent... You better up the yearly number!



They can always tag him. He’s it totally free per se. I’m of a big fan of tagging As you don’t want to have to overpay IMO of he isn’t a good next year or you the. Have to give him a mega deal if he kills it next year.

The reality is it’s always about the guaranteed cash. Always

I think the idea of tagging him is over. They declined his fifth year option and it’s time to commit or not.
The Giants chose their fate  
Rudy5757 : 1/18/2023 3:38 pm : link
they could have picked up the 5th year option and paid $22 Mil and took that gamble but they chose to let him play to see what the value is. You cant now go back and say well we need one more year. He proved to be a good quarterback with a below average set of WRs(thats not debatable).

Now you either pay him on a 5 year deal at market value or you franchise tag him. No agent in their right mind is going to accept a below market deal. The going rate for a good QB is the going rate.

At this point, the Giants have no choice but to resign him. So I think he will get a long term deal in the $40 mil per range. Probably more. Selling the team on another QB or going the draft route doesnt appear to be an option. Jones is the QB, the Giants lost the gamble and now have to pay more. Thats how this works. Now I think Jones is level headed and wont go for the moon for a salary but he still wants to get paid.
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