Polled 3 ex-GMs on what to pay Daniel Jones:
One: 3 yrs, $35-38M per, around $70M guaranteed; 4 yrs & more $ if he beats Eagles
2nd: 2yr, $21-23M per yr bridge deal
3rd: Deals like Kyler Murray’s ($46.1M per, $160M g’d) make it hard to keep price down |
I think where it’s at right now is a mix of 1 and 2. 3 years, between $25 million and the tag. A repeat of the Vikings performance I think it’s get to a top number of $35 million. Don’t think it hits 4 years, doesn’t make too much sense for either side to do four years. If this is how he plays from here on out, they’ll be redoing the contract to pay him over $40 million before it gets to year 3.
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Now you either pay him on a 5 year deal at market value or you franchise tag him. No agent in their right mind is going to accept a below market deal. The going rate for a good QB is the going rate.
At this point, the Giants have no choice but to resign him. So I think he will get a long term deal in the $40 mil per range. Probably more. Selling the team on another QB or going the draft route doesnt appear to be an option. Jones is the QB, the Giants lost the gamble and now have to pay more. Thats how this works. Now I think Jones is level headed and wont go for the moon for a salary but he still wants to get paid.
This is it.
Giants wanted him to prove to them he's the guy. Gotta show it on the field, just not on paper.
Unless there are those out there that think Daboll and company still don't trust him. Ya know, holding things back because it's the QB's issues.
unbelievable.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Is this a debate? Minus the handful that get offended, for the most part it’s people just discussing what the contract might look like.
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If you guys think Schoen is going to decide what the number is based on how he plays against the Eagles, you’re going to be disappointed
The only scenario Schoen decides the number is if he franchises Jones and tells him to eat it.
All other scenarios include Jim Denton negotiating and leveraging every factor he can.
The floor is probably set based on the Vikings games, but the ceiling certainly is not. If Jones leads the Giants to another road playoff win and an NFCC appearance, the number goes up.
I think you just touched on an element of this discussion that I hadn't noticed before: there might be some posters who regard contracts as unilateral player rewards, rather than bargained-for consideration. It would be consistent with personalizing the discussion, I suppose.
Actually, you can. If Team Jones and Schoen can't reach a deal, the FT is a mechanism the NFLPA and the owners agreed to. Which ends up being a de facto "prove it again" insurance for the team...
$2.5m was a figure I remember being given, but I can’t seem to find the thread.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Just wait if Jones goes for 165 yards on Saturday with 0 TDs and 1 INT and the debate will rage on...........
What? You guys continue to amaze me. First, there is no DJHaters club. Never was. DJ doubters? Yes. And in case you haven't noticed, we're still here.
Further, myself, JonC, others, have said we'd love for DJ to erase all these doubts. He's come a significant distance in that regard from where we were at the start of the year. The only difference between me and you is that you are certain that DJ is a high-level franchise QB, while I believe the jury is still out, and would like the organization to not make a potential mistake that would set them back at least several years by over-valuing an average to slightly above average performer for the position and committing franchise QB type of money for the same.
That's it.
It's not a personal vendetta against DJ, it's a fair debate.
Those in your camp believe what you believe with the support of a few games where he played objectively exceptionally, particularly recently, never mind these were against bad teams, bad defenses.
And despite that there are far more games that are relatively milquetoast with modest offensive output, particularly in the stat that matters most...points. The Giants ranked 17th in the regular season in points and yardage. That is the definition of average.
This is an inescapable fact. The Giants played 7 games against top-10 defenses in terms of scoring allowed this year. They were the three division opponent games and the Ravens. If we extend this to top-10 defenses in terms of yardage allowed, we still have the same group of teams. The Giants were 2-4-1 in those games, DJ didn't play week 18, so he was 2-3-1 in the others.
In those games, show me the stand-out performance? The scoring output in those games? 16, 24, 20, 22, 20, 20. And one of those games was the Washington win, where Thibodeaux got the strip-sack TD, so the offense accounted for 13 points in that game.
Moreover, show me the stand-out performance in those games by DJ. He was ok in some, not very good in others, probably the Washington tie game was his best of the bunch and it was fairly pedestrian, with the offense generating 20 points.
I'll save you some time, it isn't there. I hope this Saturday night he has his first. It will show he is demonstrating the next step, which he hasn't yet shown...which is all we've been saying. That's where the risk is at with him...if he hasn't really shown he can do it against strong teams, how can you be convinced he will do it in the future? Just hope? Hope is not a strategy.
Hell, even against some bad defenses he was mediocre at times.
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was that at least we are not going to have endless debates about Jones this week. Alas, I was wrong.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Just wait if Jones goes for 165 yards on Saturday with 0 TDs and 1 INT and the debate will rage on...........
IMV, Jones built up a lot of equity with that Minnesota win. Hence, if he plays a game in the range you describe, it won't erase that.
However, if Jones lays a huge egg - 1 TD/3 INTs, a pick six, fumble, despite protection is good, etc (you get the gist) - that could be problematic.
Yeah man...it's like they WANT us to be rooting against the guy, it's strange. How great would it be if he was simply a late bloomer and is able to sustain his recent excellence Saturday night and beyond? I'd be thrilled.
There's nothing I'd like more than to see DJ earn a fat extension, right? As long as it's clear he's the two-way threat and performer he was against Minnesota against the Eagles and other top teams. So I'm here for DJ to go kick ass on Saturday night and shut me up!
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excellent post. There's a truck load of implications for NYG in this game, and they should help determine where a number of players are at this point in time. Beat the Eagles, and it's onto the next challenge and continue building. Keep winning and eliminate questions.
Yeah man...it's like they WANT us to be rooting against the guy, it's strange. How great would it be if he was simply a late bloomer and is able to sustain his recent excellence Saturday night and beyond? I'd be thrilled.
There's nothing I'd like more than to see DJ earn a fat extension, right? As long as it's clear he's the two-way threat and performer he was against Minnesota against the Eagles and other top teams. So I'm here for DJ to go kick ass on Saturday night and shut me up!
Couldn’t have said it better. Earlier on the thread I got accused of waiting for Jones to slip back into mediocrity… while giving out identical contract numbers to the king of the fan club. It would be fantastic for the Giants if this is who he is and they don’t have to worry about a new QB for a decade.
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
Relax. We are going all in with these younger players we drafted, all about to enter their respective primes on 2nd contracts. We are poised and primed to re-sign all of our own and have room to fill holes. We have a lot of draft picks.
Everything is fine. Forget about the money and just enjoy this team and roster. They are in a great place. Guys will get paid. Make peace with it and relax.
No one right now but over the next 3 off-season s
Jones: prob 35-40 mil if not more.
Barkley: 14-17mil
Thomas: 25-28 mil
Lawrence: 21-23 mil
McKinney: 15-18mil
Love: 11-13 mil
High end- there’s likely between 120-140mil yr that will be committed to these 6 players by 2025. All worth it (that’s about half of the cap projected cap)
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
It was fine to question Jones before this season. It was even fine to keep questioning him as the season went along.
But it's OK to admit to being wrong about the guy. Which you refuse to do.
Your thinking has been anything but "free thinking". You had - and still have - an agenda, and refuse to come off it.
The guy had done everything a REASONABLE person had to answer every question about him.
And yet, you continue with your nonsense...
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
You must not really like the Giants in all honesty. If you’re being this absurd about the quarterback who is ascending, then you really don’t care that much about the team success and just want to hold a weird opinion until the end of time.
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was that at least we are not going to have endless debates about Jones this week. Alas, I was wrong.
We are in the middle of a magical run that none of us expected. Jones is playing the way many want a franchise QB to play. Why can't we just enjoy this without the endless and tired debates that have been going on all season?
Is this a debate? Minus the handful that get offended, for the most part it’s people just discussing what the contract might look like.
If you don't see that this as devolved into many of the same tired arguments re Jones I don't know what to tell you
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
Producer, for the past year you have personally appeared on what has to be 100's of threads any time Daniel Jones name was mentioned, and attacked anything positive said about the guy's potential. In fact, just a couple of weeks back you pondered about "how will the Giants ever replace 15 TD passes?" in a snarky fashion. You have been consistent in your attacks on the Giants for even considering moving forward with Jones, and now you're not happy because others want you to admit you were wrong? It's like watching an internet bully crying "not fair!"
They can't take any debate. Any questioning of Jones, which I think is still fair, even though he has been great the last few games, is unacceptable. This is just a hostile environment for any free thinking and contradictory opinions. The harassment is real, lack of logic, and lack of fairness.
I wouldn't sweat it. Jones has been a very tough evaluation, even right now despite this run of quality play.
While he indeed could be turning the corner and heading for bigger things, he could also be on one of those QB "heaters" where you just get hot, along with the team - because they will feed off the hot QB - and suddenly you are winning big games.
So, I always ask why. Why is Jones suddenly performing this well into his fourth year?
Is Daboll a QB talisman who has done it again with Jones (like he did with Allen)? And it's only going to get better, especially with more talent?
Is he the beneficiary of a favorable schedule - allstarjim lays out very nicely (above) where Jones performed well and the games he was more average or < - and that's tilting the performance a certain way?
And is it the system and great coaching/development that have made it very easy for Jones to play and succeed at NFL football.
I really don't know, but it's a fascinating situation because all of the above is a reasonable POV (well, if you are honest) right now.
So, I always ask why. Why is Jones suddenly performing this well into his fourth year?
The answer is pretty simple, and has been staring you - and the other jones haters - in the face the entire time,
Jones has a good rookie year (minus the TO's), and then got saddled with the worst coaching staff of all time for TWO FUCKING YEARS (Joe fucking Judge and Jason fucking Garrett, for those of you who need to be reminded). Not to mention some truly awful skill position players (ie, he didn't have great talent like, for example, Williams/Allen/Eckler) and a brutal OL.
Then in year 4, he has a ALL-Pro LT, a healthy SB, some decent WR who he was able to elevate into very solid pieces and an actual TE who can both block and catch - as opposed to one who couldn't block for shit and tipped up at least six gimme INT to defensive backs (when he wasn't dropping game winning passes, of course).
Throw in some excellent coaching - finally - and voila! A star is born.
Again - this ain't rocket science. Very easy to follow. For those who don't have an agenda/narrative.
Well Judge/Garrett made Meyer look like Bill Belichick, and Jones was stuck with them for TWO years...
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
Possibly Lawrence? There are two players on this team right now that Joe Schoen would probably choose over any of them, and that’s Lawrence and Thomas. There is no way in hell that we aren’t resigning Lawrence.
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
And signing Hebert to a 50+ million dollar deal wont force LAC to say good bye to Williams, Allen and/or Eckler?
🙄
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
And signing Hebert to a 50+ million dollar deal wont force LAC to say good bye to Williams, Allen and/or Eckler?
🙄
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You're completely talking out of your ass. How do you know the Giants still need to see him do it for another year? At least one asshat has said that's totally not true.
Are they going to hand him a Murray type contract? The answer is no. That means they need to see more before handing him that type of contract. What is so hard or offensive about this concept.
Jones is getting a contract this spring. Before he gets a franchise QB deal on his one after that the Giants need to see more. Where is the disconnect here?
Did I or anyone say they're going to hand him a Murray type contract? No, but it appears they are working on a multi-year deal. Not a 2 yr bridge or a tag to prove it again.
If they sign him to a 5 yr contract for something like 35M AAV (even if they include options after yr 3), how does that support your claim that "they need to see more"?
And if they tag him, as you suggest, and he has a better year next year (as many would expect with a 2nd yr in the system, improved OL and better WR corp.), then they might have to give him a Murray like contract, just to keep him. Would that be better?
I believe Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones a lot more than you do and they expect him to have a better year next year (statistically including wins) and they'd rather lock him up now vs. having to negotiate a long term contract following a better season next yr.
unbelievable.
some people seem to think elite QBs grow on trees. We just have to go pick one.
Did I or anyone say they're going to hand him a Murray type contract? No, but it appears they are working on a multi-year deal. Not a 2 yr bridge or a tag to prove it again.
If they sign him to a 5 yr contract for something like 35M AAV (even if they include options after yr 3), how does that support your claim that "they need to see more"?
And if they tag him, as you suggest, and he has a better year next year (as many would expect with a 2nd yr in the system, improved OL and better WR corp.), then they might have to give him a Murray like contract, just to keep him. Would that be better?
I believe Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones a lot more than you do and they expect him to have a better year next year (statistically including wins) and they'd rather lock him up now vs. having to negotiate a long term contract following a better season next yr.
What they sign him to this offseason is going to be irrelevant if he continues to improve. The contract will be ripped up long before it reaches its end, and they’re going to have to pay him with the best.
Since many keep missing the point about the comment about the tag, I’ll try to explain it better.
The Giants aren’t handing Jones a $45 or $50 million contract this season which means they need to see more from him before handing him that sized contract. That’s not really debatable, he’s not getting that amount. The comment regarding they can tag him, was in response to a comment that “he’s a free agent, they have to pay whatever he wants”. That’s simply not true. If Team Jones comes in asking for $40 million a year for 6 years and refuses to move off of it, the Giants will just tag him. The only downside for the Giants in that scenario is paying maybe $5 million more a year giving him a deal the year after the tag. But if Jones proves himself to be a $45 million, that extra $5 million is really irrelevant.
Can't wait.
Can't wait.
Where did I say that? Nothing I said is really disputable. Jones is going to get paid somewhere between the around $30-35 million in all likely hood. If Jones continues to improve aka shows the Giants more, he’s going to get $40-50 million the next time they have to pay him. Not sure why this is a narrative, or offensive at all. It’s exactly what is going to happen.
Things Daniel Jones can show after signing this contract that will lead to a bigger contract:
He can do this stretch over a full season, and multiple seasons.
That he can be a top 5 QB.
That he can stay healthy for multiple seasons in a row while not giving up his running game.
Showing the first two will get him paid like the best QBs in the league, not like Kirk Cousins.
There were a lot of members in that club. Granted, the cheerleaders of this faction were loud and frequent, which may have made the group seem larger than it was.
There were also a lot of folks who were in the doubt, but he might prove it category.
And a gray area, which a lot of people are going to use to delude themselves/others that weren't closer to hate than doubt.
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Many of us here feel the same way. With regards to Cousins, no one seems to acknowledge why their defense is absolute garage, despite their best player being on a rookie contract.
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
And signing Hebert to a 50+ million dollar deal wont force LAC to say good bye to Williams, Allen and/or Eckler?
🙄
Honestly, without knowing the specifics of their contract situations, moving on from that trio in the not so distant future is the move for the Chargers.
Allen is 30 going on 31 and is always hurt. People here don't want the Giants to pursue Hopkins if he is available and he's the same age.
Williams is 28 but I believe he had issues with his back early in his career and now he suffered another back injury. He could age quickly.
The endzone appears to just pull Ekeler in, but he is better off going forward if he could just play a Darren Sproles role with another back. He obviously is the best receiving RB in the game but The Chargers lacked a ground game all year and it really came back to bite them in the behind against the Jags. Plus he's 27 going on 28. The age where people want to end a potential Barkley contract because thats when RBs usually fall off a cliff.
Can't wait.
welcome to BBI
If the Giants and Jones agree to a short term deal, the Giants absolutely are looking for him to prove more.
If the Giants sign him to a mega, market pushing deal, there is a chance it’ll prove to be a mistake.
Oh but wait there is a third scenario … what if the Giants sign him to a multi-year deal that conveys into bigger money based on certain achievements? It’s almost like they have choices!
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Many of us here feel the same way. With regards to Cousins, no one seems to acknowledge why their defense is absolute garage, despite their best player being on a rookie contract.
I checked out the Viking forums after the game. They like Kirk, but are facing reality that they need to move on. The Raiders are dumping Carr for the same reason.
Signing Jones to a mega contract means we can kiss goodbye to some other great players (possibly Lawrence).
Possibly Lawrence? There are two players on this team right now that Joe Schoen would probably choose over any of them, and that’s Lawrence and Thomas. There is no way in hell that we aren’t resigning Lawrence.
Here is the thing about the salary cap. Paying your QB 20% of the cap makes it really hard to have a good all around team. I am not saying Lawrence won't be resigned. But you are kidding yourself if you don't think it will have a significant impact on the team that will result in tough decisions for Schoen. I just don't want to hear any complaining from you when Jones doesn't have a great o-line or weapons. Or the defense sucks like Cousins with the Vikings.
But one thing for sure is that he doesn't have to show "more" to any of the BBI talking heads.
Daboll/Schoen have had a full year to evaluate him during training camp, practices, and film room sessions. They've seen how he handles adversity, how he handles pressure, and how well he responds to his coaches.
They've seen his steady progression from game to game, and not just from watching from a man cave, or sports bar.
To them, the vikings game was the culmination of all that hard work. It was not a surprise.
It's hard to believe that these professional evaluators do not know what he is at this point.
So one game won't make a difference in their decision making.
My guess is that they do know what they have, and they will pay him accordingly.
And it will be a contract that leaves no doubt he is their guy. (Again, just my guess)