Has Jones arm strength improved?

But he is a full grown Man now. Not just his arm strength. He has filled out altogether.

probably been working on it each off-season.

more confidence but the zip on some of the off platform throws he’s made have been really impressive. We haven’t really seen him do that in year’s past.

Jones has gotten stronger, but nothing about his arm strength screams special.

...strongest arm in the league.

They say in high school he didn't have a strong arm... Some people care about that.

They said Duke you didn't have a strong arm and some people care about that too.

But if you look at the analytics Daniel Jones has the strongest arm in the history of football.

$50 million a year.

In comment 16001456 Producer said:

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Jones has gotten stronger, but nothing about his arm strength screams special.

He is certainly no Mahomes or Allen, but that throw to the toe tapping Hodgins was impressive, rolling to his left... Mostly arm and wrist.

It caught my eye. It was more than I what I expected from him.

Still, I am not categorizing him as an Elite arm by an stretch.

Has grown up.
Link - ( New Window )

has more zip on the ball - sure.

I've never been fond of his release and his longer throwing motion, but the ball he is throwing seems to be tighter spirals.

Jones is very good throwing the ball into the middle of the field with accuracy, btw. That's his best trait as a thrower.

legs and all he has some mustard on his ball. He has figured out to position his body for the throw. But I don't see that same power when he doesn't get that opportunity to get those legs into the throw

.

Of Allen and Mahomes. It’s those 2 and a bunch of dudes.

Thought people were unnecessarily bringing it up as a hot topic back then…but yeah I was thinking the same thing watching him, it looked a bit stronger.

The interview with Mayock, unprovoked he brought up how he noticed how much Jones had developed physically, as the last time he had seen him was back at the senior bowl when he was with the Raiders. He said he looked a little more like Josh Allen now, thicker.

He also looks a little more bursty on his runs, thought that as well..he is exploding up the field.

In comment 16001554 BSIMatt said:

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Of Allen and Mahomes. It’s those 2 and a bunch of dudes.

Herbert
Stafford (when healthy)
Rodgers

In comment 16001554 BSIMatt said:

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Of Allen and Mahomes. It’s those 2 and a bunch of dudes.

Nah, Herbert can throw the ball a mile too.

I always thought the DJ arm strength thing was never actually "a thing". He's not the strongest arm by any means but he can get plenty of juice on the ball, enough for what he needs to do. And enough to win.

In comment 16001462 .McL. said:

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In comment 16001456 Producer said: Quote: Jones has gotten stronger, but nothing about his arm strength screams special. He is certainly no Mahomes or Allen, but that throw to the toe tapping Hodgins was impressive, rolling to his left... Mostly arm and wrist. It caught my eye. It was more than I what I expected from him. Still, I am not categorizing him as an Elite arm by an stretch.

It was one of his best throws of the season combined with a superb catch by Hodgins. Jones has also improved dramatically throwing on the run. It might be his single biggest gain. And improved somewhat, his touch. He's not Burrow level touch, but noticeably better.

In comment 16001554 BSIMatt said:

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Of Allen and Mahomes. It’s those 2 and a bunch of dudes.

At that level, it's not arm strength. It's arm talent.

And that includes Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers, Stafford. I might even include Kyler Murray.

Exactly which arm talents are we talking about.

I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand.

In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said:

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Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand.

No. Herbert is at worst #2 to Allen and arguably #1. Some Herbert throws are mind boggling, little flings that go 40+ yards and barely go 15 feet above ground.

In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said:

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Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand.

Good question. IMV:

+ Quick release
+ Accuracy and distance when you can't step into the throw
+ Being able to throw effectively with different arm angles
+ Being able to throw with zip and accuracy scrambling to either side
+ Being able to apply zip and touch
+ Having the arm strength to throw receivers open by fitting the ball into tight windows

In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said:

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Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand.

I see it as velocity, I think Herbert is up there with Allen and Mahomes. Just my dopey opinion but I see those guys as top 3 in velocity. But I agree with you on Murray that dude can sling the ball with plenty of velocity. Figure at that level it's really splitting hairs too... lol. Older guy like Rodgers can still throw the ball pretty damn hard too lol

It was all about pocket awareness,accuracy,decision making and turnovers.
He has improved dramatically in all 4 this year under Daboll and Kafka. I also believe he can still improve more under their tutelage next year.

In comment 16001589 Producer said:

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In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said: Quote: Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand. No. Herbert is at worst #2 to Allen and arguably #1. Some Herbert throws are mind boggling, little flings that go 40+ yards and barely go 15 feet above ground.

LOL! Herbert has arguably the #1 arm in the NFL?!

You need help. Lots of it.

He had an ok arm when he entered the league. He definitely has some nice zip on the ball now.

In comment 16001590 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said: Quote: Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand. Good question. IMV: + Quick release + Accuracy and distance when you can't step into the throw + Being able to throw effectively with different arm angles + Being able to throw with zip and accuracy scrambling to either side + Being able to apply zip and touch + Having the arm strength to throw receivers open by fitting the ball into tight windows

Arm talent is one of those buzzwords that everybody uses although many still conflate arm talent with arm strength. They are not the same. When most people talk about arm talent they’re really just talking about the ability for a qb to make any throw, at any arm angle from any platform.

In comment 16001589 Producer said:

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In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said: Quote: Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand. No. Herbert is at worst #2 to Allen and arguably #1. Some Herbert throws are mind boggling, little flings that go 40+ yards and barely go 15 feet above ground.

You can’t measure arm talent so there’s no right or wrong, only someone’s opinion. Not sure why you’re being a jerk about someone having a different opinion than you do but as far as arm talent goes Mahomes is a clear #1 imv.

In comment 16001612 Strahan91 said:

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Arm talent is one of those buzzwords that everybody uses although many still conflate arm talent with arm strength. They are not the same. When most people talk about arm talent they’re really just talking about the ability for a qb to make any throw, at any arm angle from any platform.

That's what I was trying by the subcategories I listed. But you summed it up much more succinctly.

has the same meaning as the force multiplier gene.

They are buzzwords bandied about by people who are trying to make you think they have some insight, when they really are just complete blowhards.

Either. DJ can sling it pretty well. His deep throws are actually quite pretty.

In comment 16001626 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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has the same meaning as the force multiplier gene. They are buzzwords bandied about by people who are trying to make you think they have some insight, when they really are just complete blowhards.

Ask your boy Beane why he drafted Josh Allen.

Specifically, ask him if Allen's arm talent was a big factor.

I look forward to a resounding yes.

In comment 16001480 bw in dc said:

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has more zip on the ball - sure. I've never been fond of his release and his longer throwing motion, but the ball he is throwing seems to be tighter spirals. Jones is very good throwing the ball into the middle of the field with accuracy, btw. That's his best trait as a thrower.

full agreement, he's bee throwing darts in the middle to guys with pinpoint accuracy. Guys that were not open by much and the throw had to be perfect and it way.

Right now I am thinking of a throw to slayton on 6 yard dig near the end zone. That was a heck of a throw. The other one was the the throw the Hodgins for the TD. That was also placed in a tight window.

In comment 16001590 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said: Quote: Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand. Good question. IMV: + Quick release + Accuracy and distance when you can't step into the throw + Being able to throw effectively with different arm angles + Being able to throw with zip and accuracy scrambling to either side + Being able to apply zip and touch + Having the arm strength to throw receivers open by fitting the ball into tight windows

I like this definition

...he has more zip on his passes, is able to throw on the run with more velocity, and is getting the ball to players outside the numbers more quickly. All those are signs of arm strength.

In comment 16001642 WestCoastGFan said:

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Either. DJ can sling it pretty well. His deep throws are actually quite pretty.

Are you kidding? Eli had a cannon. And the best deep ball touch of anyone since Marino.

In comment 16001554 BSIMatt said:

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Of Allen and Mahomes. It’s those 2 and a bunch of dudes.

Herbert?

In comment 16001683 sb from NYT Forum said:

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In comment 16001642 WestCoastGFan said: Quote: Either. DJ can sling it pretty well. His deep throws are actually quite pretty. Are you kidding? Eli had a cannon. And the best deep ball touch of anyone since Marino.

I liked Eli's arm. I thought it was pretty strong for the first ten years. I don't know about the Marino statement. There have been a lot of guys with arms comparable to Eli with great deep ball ability. But Eli was a helluva QB.

Engram is gone who was never a real TE. He always had a good arm when given the time to throw. The bird dogging is gone which is a big step forward for. He throws a much tighter spiral than Eli. It was always there.

I think his arm strength has definitely improved, but it's not on deep balls that it has much effect. You notice it much more on deep out routes, or throws like the one to Hodgins, across his body moving to his left outside the numers.

is putting Mahomes arm strength anywhere close to Josh Allen’s. I’m just not seeing it.

Here are some throwing velocity numbers from the NFL Combine.

Josh Allen 62 MPH
Mahomes 55 MPH
Herbert 55 MPH
Daniel Jones 54 MPH

He is just making quicker, decisive throws when he hits the back foot on drop back passes. His average yards per attempt is still about the same as prior years, but he is not spending as much time standing in the pocket waiting for receivers to get open. This is not a knock on DJ, but I think what we are seeing is a well designed offense and DJ getting more comfortable with making the right reads quickly. The hesitation in his game is almost completely gone. Kudos to Dabs and Kafka for getting him over the hump.

as far as "arm talent." Guy can flick a ball 40 yards with what seems like his wrist. He has lost some now, but...
For pure power there is Josh Allen and everyone else.
Mahomes talent comes from being able to accurately throw from an angle and plane. He is probably closest to Rodgers, IMV.

The difference with Jones, now, is that he and the WRs are on the same page. So he is able to set and throw with confidence.

Think about this - who had the better arm, Peyton or Eli. Well Eli had a much stronger arm. Peyton was far more accurate. Who was the better passer?

but I've seen the throws he's now making on a rope and am duly impressed. When he can set his feet he's fine. It's the Allen's, Herbert and Mahomes that can throw those ropes whole moving though.

Agree his arm has gotten stronger, especially this year. He’s always been accurate so the increase in velocity really shoes up on his throws.
He throws a tight spiral on every throw and generally a real catchable ball.
His arm talent improvement reminds me of Brady’s after 4years in the league.

"DJ throws a perfect spiral every throw, so the ball cuts through the elements" ... that probably helps a lot as he added strength as he got older

In comment 16001587 BSIMatt said:

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Exactly which arm talents are we talking about. I like Murray’s arm more than Herbert’s actually, not the tallest guy but the ball does jump out of his hand.

.

You can spin the ball with accuracy, and make throws into tighter windows, that some other QB's can't make.
That is my definition of arm talent.
Rodgers, Mahommes, Allen can do those things the best in todays' game IMO. Allen has the strongest arm to me.
As far as Daniel goes, his arm has improved slightly since coming into the league, but he doesn't have a gun either.
Getting rid of the ball quicker this year has helped him.

In comment 16001683 sb from NYT Forum said:

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...Are you kidding? Eli had a cannon. And the best deep ball touch of anyone since Marino.

Wut?

You guys are kidding me…right?

That’s a good one…

In comment 16001644 bw in dc said:

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...Ask your boy Beane why he drafted Josh Allen. Specifically, ask him if Allen's arm talent was a big factor.

No question Allen had a powerful, explosive arm coming out. But I think his arm talent, as you and Stray qualify it above, has developed exponentially under Dabs, Dorsey's, et al. tutelage. He has become more Mahomes-esque in angle of delivery, when necessary, touch on screens and shorter passes, and placement. He's a different passer now, which is what one would hope.

In comment 16001626 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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has the same meaning as the force multiplier gene. They are buzzwords bandied about by people who are trying to make you think they have some insight, when they really are just complete blowhards.

Really insightful contribution from you, as per usual.

can increase ball speed and strength.

Confidence in himself and his receivers.

Arm talent isn't the end all be all.. otherwise Jeff George would be one of the best QB's ever.

Jones has average arm talent. He is throwing with more authority as his confidence grows.

It’s always been Jones’ relatively slow release that’s a concern. Passing isn’t just about location, it’s also about timing. The way to overcome this is processing quickly and being able to anticipate where players are going. He’s made a ton of progress on that in the last month, which is great to hear.

talent to operate the tv remote while watching Jones in the divisional playoffs this weekend.

Herbert is a good QB, but he hasn’t won anything at this point with a much better supporting cast from a WR standpoint. The man crush for this guy by some posters is unwarranted at this point.

In comment 16001874 eric2425ny said:

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talent to operate the tv remote while watching Jones in the divisional playoffs this weekend. Herbert is a good QB, but he hasn’t won anything at this point with a much better supporting cast from a WR standpoint. The man crush for this guy by some posters is unwarranted at this point.

I am a card-carrying member of the JHFC and think he's great. A tremendous talent. IMV, a cross between Marino and Elway. His production over his first three season is unprecedented. All you have to do is review his numbers.

If you want to ding him for not winning "anything" thus far, fine. But a guy like Peyton Manning didn't win "anything" his first three season. Yet, it was clear to anyone with a pulse he was great.

but his biggest improvement is accuracy. He is throwing people open now and putting it where it needs to be on a more consistent basis than any Giants QB I remember.

In comment 16001803 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 16001683 sb from NYT Forum said: Quote: ...Are you kidding? Eli had a cannon. And the best deep ball touch of anyone since Marino. Wut?

Yup! Believe it!


Link - ( New Window )

The OP is specifically asking about arm strength, which I read as velocity, or "zip" on the ball.

To answer the question about DJ arm "strength" improving, I would say yes, because he was only 21 years old coming into the league and aside from just naturally maturing, has been training in an NFL regimen for 4 years. But it's just an eyeball test. He is also playing with confidence and slightly better protection, which I am sure helps to present as more "zip" on the ball.

In comment 16001874 eric2425ny said:

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talent to operate the tv remote while watching Jones in the divisional playoffs this weekend. Herbert is a good QB, but he hasn’t won anything at this point with a much better supporting cast from a WR standpoint. The man crush for this guy by some posters is unwarranted at this point.

Is it still unwarranted if that man crush also exists with about 28 NFL General Managers around the league, if not more?

In comment 16001775 Simms11 said:

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but I've seen the throws he's now making on a rope and am duly impressed. When he can set his feet he's fine. It's the Allen's, Herbert and Mahomes that can throw those ropes whole moving though.

I went to high school in northwest NJ - Phillipsburg HS. Back in the late 70s/early 80s - before my time - we had a guy named Jim Clymer who went to Stanford to play with Elway.

I've met Jim numerous times. We were out one night, and he told the story of practicing with Elway for the first time. He was struggling to adjust to the speed of Elway's passes and caught everything with his body. After practice, he took his jersey off and on his chest was the red imprint of the cross at the end of a football. And it hurt. He found out from other receivers that this was common, and players called it the "Elway Cross"...

That guy could throw a football.

shows up on film this year in addition to the Hodgins throw from this past weekend that's fresh in everyone's mind.

Throw #1
Throw #2
Throw #3
Throw #4
Throw #5

during the XXI broadcast.

the WRs couldn't catch it. Didn't he throw it from hsi knees 88 yards through the goalpost one time (or something like that).

Arm strength is only one part though, Jeff George had a gun too but basically sucked

In comment 16001904 bw in dc said:

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I am a card-carrying member of the JHFC and think he's great. A tremendous talent. IMV, a cross between Marino and Elway. His production over his first three season is unprecedented. All you have to do is review his numbers. If you want to ding him for not winning "anything" thus far, fine. But a guy like Peyton Manning didn't win "anything" his first three season. Yet, it was clear to anyone with a pulse he was great.

I was never a Peyton or Eli fan. I rooted for Eli because he was on the Giants. Eli Had "it" in the playoffs... Peyton did not. Peyton Manning had a 14-13 record in the playoffs in his career. 1 Super Bowl he earned and 1 he was a passenger for.

I stand by my opinion that Herbert is soft.. Nerfy soft.

Do you think it matters how many TD's a QB throws in the regular season when it comes playoff time?

Herbert only threw 1 TD in the playoffs. He was a non factor in that game.

Listen if Herbert was battling and it was going back and forth and the Chargers lost , I might be able to see it and appreciate it.

If you want a fantasy QB for the regular season, then he is your man. If you want a championship, there is no proof he can deliver that right now.

River's was a better QB "Statistically" than Eli. How many Championships did River's win?

Maybe next year he takes the next step, but putting him in the same conversation with a HOF'er is silly.

In comment 16001704 giantBCP said:

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is putting Mahomes arm strength anywhere close to Josh Allen’s. I’m just not seeing it. Here are some throwing velocity numbers from the NFL Combine. Josh Allen 62 MPH Mahomes 55 MPH Herbert 55 MPH Daniel Jones 54 MPH

See this makes sense to me. Watching these guys throw on tv, they all look similar in velocity, except Allen.

Of course velocity is not the only consideration in evaluating arm “talent “

In comment 16002028 Tom from LI said:

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In comment 16001904 bw in dc said: Quote: I am a card-carrying member of the JHFC and think he's great. A tremendous talent. IMV, a cross between Marino and Elway. His production over his first three season is unprecedented. All you have to do is review his numbers. If you want to ding him for not winning "anything" thus far, fine. But a guy like Peyton Manning didn't win "anything" his first three season. Yet, it was clear to anyone with a pulse he was great. I was never a Peyton or Eli fan. I rooted for Eli because he was on the Giants. Eli Had "it" in the playoffs... Peyton did not. Peyton Manning had a 14-13 record in the playoffs in his career. 1 Super Bowl he earned and 1 he was a passenger for. I stand by my opinion that Herbert is soft.. Nerfy soft. Do you think it matters how many TD's a QB throws in the regular season when it comes playoff time? Herbert only threw 1 TD in the playoffs. He was a non factor in that game. Listen if Herbert was battling and it was going back and forth and the Chargers lost , I might be able to see it and appreciate it. If you want a fantasy QB for the regular season, then he is your man. If you want a championship, there is no proof he can deliver that right now. River's was a better QB "Statistically" than Eli. How many Championships did River's win? Maybe next year he takes the next step, but putting him in the same conversation with a HOF'er is silly.

Shouldn't compare Rivers to Eli based on hardware.

Chargers organization is so snake bit, that I struggle to see Eli or Big Ben having done more with them than what they did with their respective teams.

Rivers had a higher floor than Eli throughout the regular season certainly.

I was comparing Herbert's physical skills to HoFers and implying that we should pump the brakes on his playoff results because it's only his third year.

Herbert didn't play a bad game versus Jax, but he didn't play great. No turnovers is always a good thing...right? And he wasn't the reason they lost. It was a team collapse led by Staley.

And Herbert isn't a soft player. He played several games this year with broken rib cartilage.

Well... I certainly don't see Herbert as some mutant cross between Elway and Marino... lol. BUT he is one of the top QBs in the league today. No one can really argue against that effectively. He is easily top 5 in my view, and as a pure QB athletically he is in the top 3. The guy can throw the ball. Just my opinion.

That said, one of the reasons I was always so high on Jones was because I always viewed his athletic ceiling as very high. The guy is a ridiculous athlete as a QB. He is (and always has been IMO) a way better passer than many people give him credit for, and this coaching staff is making him bloom, big time.

In comment 16001456 Producer said:

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Jones has gotten stronger, but nothing about his arm strength screams special.

But Hackett does and is top ten. Make it freaking stop.