Sy'56 Tweet on Daniel Jones and Jalen Hurts

...blitz Hurts and spy and take your chances. Preferably blitz from the left side.

Esp now, with him probably going to be rusty.

Those are interesting stats, but to glean anything from them you need to know the number of snaps under pressure, the pass attempts, the number of rushes and production from that.

In comment 16003391 Marty in Albany said:

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(I assume 80 for 17 games- less than 5 times per game). But Jones is under pressure over 70% of the time on passing attempts.

You know, obviously teams are bringing pressure more often than that. So that leads me to believe that Hurts has escaped pressure with regularity and great success.

"Bring pressure," and "blitz him" sound great, but it's not good if it isn't effective and he escapes and makes big plays downfield or with his legs. I'd look to blitz him occasionally, but I think more important is to utilize the extra defender as a spy more than a blitzer. And I definitely don't want to have too much singled up man-on-man with limited or no safety help too often.

If we can limit Hurts as a runner, and get pressure with 4, then I think the team will be able to force him into a mistake or two, and that may be enough.

It all seems to go back to who wins in the trenches, right?

me. Jones has been under a lot of duress for a good percentage of the season and he has made key plays on 3rd downs many times. It is the biggest think I have been impressed with.

Hurts has had a far better OL around him and he has better WR's. I think they had like three PB's on the OL.

In comment 16003404 bw in dc said:

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I'd like to see that by # of times pressured because it seems to me - and I haven't watched every Eagles game - that Hurts had one of the cleanest pockets all year of any QB. And then how many times when pressured Hurts just ran away from the pressure. Because I think he was running over 10X per game this year...

Tagging onto this thought. If Hurts is indeed "feeling" the shoulder a bit, is he more inclined to spend that extra second to try and find a WR during a scramble because he'd rather save the shoulder from unnecessary hits?

If so, are we looking at a 44% comp rate?

Many statistics are posted without any context to make a point, which to me is a dishonest use of data.

Had the same thought as you although I am sure the coverage scheme will include some man to man. Keep Hurts in the pocket and confuse him.

We Trust (to bring the house as often as practicable).

Just win baby! That's the only stat that matters.

In comment 16003416 allstarjim said:

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In comment 16003391 Marty in Albany said: Quote: (I assume 80 for 17 games- less than 5 times per game). But Jones is under pressure over 70% of the time on passing attempts. You know, obviously teams are bringing pressure more often than that. So that leads me to believe that Hurts has escaped pressure with regularity and great success. "Bring pressure," and "blitz him" sound great, but it's not good if it isn't effective and he escapes and makes big plays downfield or with his legs. I'd look to blitz him occasionally, but I think more important is to utilize the extra defender as a spy more than a blitzer. And I definitely don't want to have too much singled up man-on-man with limited or no safety help too often. If we can limit Hurts as a runner, and get pressure with 4, then I think the team will be able to force him into a mistake or two, and that may be enough. It all seems to go back to who wins in the trenches, right?

Agreed. Make it so your secondary doesn’t have to worry about him running. If he can’t manipulate the defense with the threat of him running, he’s less effective.

In comment 16003435 gogiants said:

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If Sy is using the same SportsRadar numbers as PFR, we can make a few guesses.

Of those days 99 snaps under press 38 were sacks, so now our pool is 61 snaps. Now subtract some of the 44 scrambles (there might be some overlap between the scrambles and sacks).

If none of the scrambles resulted in sacks, we’re talking at max 17 pass attempts under pressure?

I will streak down Broad St. CiP offered to film for posterity.

have Jalen Hurt not sure if he wants to run or cower in the pocket to protect his shoulder.

In comment 16003400 Dave on the UWS said:

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an elite thrower. Jones isn't either. It's their emotional makeup. Hurts does well when he's comfortable, throughout college into the pros, that's what he is used to. Jones hasn't been that fortunate. They are different QBs but both very effective.

Often there are opinions shared here that leave me curious.

Your comment that Daniel is not an elite thrower is an example.


Not trying to be obtuse here, sincerely would like an explanation. When I watch games from home it seems like he throws a very tight accurate ball, often having to fit it into a tight window.

What exactly is it you see that allows you to state with confidence he is not an elite thrower of the football.

To be fair, most of these NFL quarterbacks from my perspective seem like elite passers.

But Jones has been one the last three weeks. To me an elite thrower is a guy that more often than not, and regardless of game circumstances, they’re going to be able to carry you with their arm.

That’s AJ Brown and smith winning one on one battles. That’s would good receivers do. Add in a better TE and OL we are at a huge disadvantage. But, we will win!

In comment 16003376 Chris684 said:

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Terps said that Jones's running had to be a big part of his game, so he wasn't wrong there.

In comment 16003499 sb from NYT Forum said:

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In comment 16003376 Chris684 said: Quote: .. Terps said that Jones's running had to be a big part of his game, so he wasn't wrong there.

Player using his strengths isn't a knock or praise. It is who he is. Daniel has a legit coach and that's why they've won. There's so many QBs who haven't won because of poor coaching.

He also tried to downplay every single thing the man did. He isn't the only one who did, though.

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In comment 16003442 j_rud said:

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I will streak down Broad St. CiP offered to film for posterity.

For *posterior?

In comment 16003467 ajr2456 said:

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But Jones has been one the last three weeks. To me an elite thrower is a guy that more often than not, and regardless of game circumstances, they’re going to be able to carry you with their arm.

Ok, this makes sense to me.

...

He knows his strengths and his weaknesses. Philly has a lot of talent but hopefully Dabs and Wink together can conjure up a way to exploit the latter.

Blitzes off the slot really bothered Hurts in Week 18. Wink needs to send them a few times on Sunday.

any pressure on him and he was awful. Part of that was they probably didnt want to run him so he had to throw and he isnt good in that situation but the element of running covers that up. I would blitz him often with a spy so have that 5th guy like Collins at or near the line spying him so he can run and mix up the guys who are the spy.

It would be amazing if we can have all 4 of our starters playing, I think we can create some good pressure with the top 4. Wink can get him confused, this is Winks game to win. I thought the D did a fantastic job last game without the starters, that was a frustrated team. I think if we can get them frustrated like that again they may implode. They had it easy this season until they got some injuries.

Come on Wink, you got this.

In comment 16003548 Spider56 said:

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He knows his strengths and his weaknesses. Philly has a lot of talent but hopefully Dabs and Wink together can conjure up a way to exploit the latter.

He certainly has some experience with him but players also improve which he has. Hopefully he sees some deficiencies still apparent and they can capitalize on that.

In comment 16003527 joeinpa said:

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In comment 16003467 ajr2456 said: Quote: But Jones has been one the last three weeks. To me an elite thrower is a guy that more often than not, and regardless of game circumstances, they’re going to be able to carry you with their arm. Ok, this makes sense to me.

And the next step in Jones’ progression is becoming an elite thrower consistently.

a shot for Hurts' shoulder and Johnson's groin will potentially be for them considering the nature of their ailments? Do those shot basically eliminate and/or diminish discomfort? Thanks in advanced.

In comment 16003571 Ceez2.0 said:

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a shot for Hurts' shoulder and Johnson's groin will potentially be for them considering the nature of their ailments? Do those shot basically eliminate and/or diminish discomfort? Thanks in advanced.

I guess it would help the pain, but I would imagine the injury would still limit the velocity on his throws.

In comment 16003441 christian said:

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In comment 16003435 gogiants said: Quote: If Sy is using the same SportsRadar numbers as PFR, we can make a few guesses. Of those days 99 snaps under press 38 were sacks, so now our pool is 61 snaps. Now subtract some of the 44 scrambles (there might be some overlap between the scrambles and sacks). If none of the scrambles resulted in sacks, we’re talking at max 17 pass attempts under pressure?

The stat should be adjusted to something like "%positive yards/plays off blitz" - or something like that - to credit the QB's ability to be mobile.

BW, that scramble stat is vague. PFR defines a scramble as rushes on plays designed as passes -- but if that scramble result in zero a fewer yards it's presumably a sack.

Regardless, the point is it doesn't seem like Hurts actually has that many pass attempts under pressure -- somewhere around ~17+.

If you do that same exercise for Jones:

143 pressures minus 44 sacks minus 53 scrambles = ~46+ attempts.

My conclusion is Jones is pretty good throwing the ball under pressure, and Hurts doesn't have enough pass attempts under pressure to draw a big conclusion.

Hurts picked up 343 yards rushing under pressure (44 attempts), Jones picked up 381 (53 attempts)

On the Athletic Football Show Saturday Preview podcast was that Hurts is 2nd in EPA per drop back vs. Man blitzes but 31st in EPA per drop back vs. zone blitzes.

That podcast is well worth a listen too. They go chronologically so skip to halfway through to get the Giants/Eagles.

I see here time and again people suggesting Collins spy on Hurts.

I doubt that Collins is the right guy.

I'd think that Love is a better choice for that role.

In comment 16003376 Chris684 said:

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I have my share of negative takes but I've never seen someone so sure in himself. I'm glad to see arrogance humbled.

the same thing over and over again isn't arrogant, they are impudent.

In comment 16003625 Hammer said:

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I see here time and again people suggesting Collins spy on Hurts. I doubt that Collins is the right guy. I'd think that Love is a better choice for that role.

No, they need Love in coverage. Collins would be fine, or Holmes or Pinnock.

and mix up coverages, force him to read defenses

He likes to scramble and then hit someone beating man coverage.

Put a spy on him. Disguise blitzes with players dropping out of the box etc. Bring pressure off the edge.

The key is confusing him under pressure.

In comment 16003595 christian said:

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Hurts picked up 343 yards rushing under pressure (44 attempts), Jones picked up 381 (53 attempts)

This is the key to the game. Any big situation during the season where the other team is in man he would run for the first down. Stop that and you are in good shape.

In comment 16003376 Chris684 said:

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I have not. He was on the wrong side of this fence, for sure. But I’m sure he’s rooting for the good guys.

In comment 16003400 Dave on the UWS said:

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an elite thrower. Jones isn't either. It's their emotional makeup. Hurts does well when he's comfortable, throughout college into the pros, that's what he is used to. Jones hasn't been that fortunate. They are different QBs but both very effective.

I mean just wrong Dave. Jones has shown elite placement, velocity and arc. Right now he's elite arm wise. He's a notch below Allen, Mahomes and Burrow, a notch. You are just aren't watching closely enough or simply don't know enough about QB play. Not trying to be a jerk, honest you are thoughtful and thorough on here but 8 has been excellent arm wise all year.

I recall you kind of bailing on Jones last season. What do you think is the biggest cause of improvement for him, do you think he was just very poorly coached before?

The offensive coaching has been outstanding, and this may be my favorite scheme playcalling wise I’ve ever witnessed as a fan. I absolutely love what Kafka and Daboll are doing on offense.

But the offensive line, while still a work in progress and still wth much room for improvement..is light years ahead of what we fielded the last 2 years. It was like Jones had a 2 year hex placed on him….the oline/skill position situation was bleak to say the least.

nothing dirty, and I don't care about a penalty. I would give him a hard hit. See how he responds.

I'm sure the Eagles want to smack Jones. One thing for sure, Our boy is a much larger human being theirs.

In comment 16003376 Chris684 said:

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He's on the Bears website, pretending to be a Bears fan and bashing Justin Fields.

If you take into consideration how few attempts it seems Hurts took under pressure, and how well he ran the ball under pressure — I don’t think there’s much evidence to say the Giants should sell out to get after him.

Like to see a comparison of percent success in making a first down when under pressure, including those resulting from scrambles and designed running plays.

You MUST stop Hurts from running. He bails himself out all the time. He can throw but the real DAGGERS come from his running. If I were DC I would make that my #1 priority. Pressure in his face, discipline on the edges and get him when he tries to escape. We need a HUGE game from Dex and Leo.

In comment 16004284 Reale01 said:

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You MUST stop Hurts from running. He bails himself out all the time. He can throw but the real DAGGERS come from his running. If I were DC I would make that my #1 priority. Pressure in his face, discipline on the edges and get him when he tries to escape. We need a HUGE game from Dex and Leo.

Agree. Force the bad down/distance situations and prevent him from escaping to gain the yards. Eagles are probably thinking the same thing about Jones. I heard Schlereth say that he thinks Wink is going to go with a five man front for a lot of the game. Interesting.

Ivan; agree with about stats. Many just don't paint a clear situation of the relevant situation. Lots of ones I would like to see I can't seem to find.