NHL All-Star rosters were finalized with the fans voting for 3 players for each divisional team.
So the final rosters are below with the fan voted players with an asterisk:
Metropolitan Division (All-Star appearances)
F Sidney Crosby, PIT (5th)
F Johnny Gaudreau, CBJ (7th)
F Kevin Hayes, PHI (1st)
F Jack Hughes, NJD (2nd)
F Brock Nelson, NYI (1st)
F Alex Ovechkin, WSH (8th)
F Artemi Panarin, NYR (1st)*
F Andrei Svechnikov, CAR (1st)
D Adam Fox, NYR (1st)*
G Igor Shesterkin, NYR (1st)
G Ilya Sorokin, NYI (1st)*
Atlantic Division (All-Star appearances)
F Nikita Kucherov, TBL (4th)
F Dylan Larkin, DET (3rd)
F Mitchell Marner, TOR (2nd)
F Auston Matthews, TOR (5th)*
F David Pastrnak, BOS (3rd)*
F Nick Suzuki, MTL (2nd)
F Tage Thompson, BUF (1st)
F Brady Tkachuk, OTT (3rd)
F Matthew Tkachuk, FLA (2nd)
G Andrei Vasilevskiy, TBL (4th)*
G Linus Ullmark, BOS (1st)
Central Division (All-Star appearances)
F Kirill Kaprizov, MIN (2nd)
F Clayton Keller, ARI (3rd)
F Nathan MacKinnon, COL (5th)*
F Mikko Rantanen, COL (2nd)*
F Jason Robertson, DAL (1st)
F Vladimir Tarasenko, STL (4th)
D Seth Jones, CHI (4th)
D Cale Makar, COL (2nd)
D Josh Morrissey, WPG (1st)
G Connor Hellebuyck, WPG (3rd)*
G Juuse Saros, NSH (2nd)
Pacific Division (All-Star appearances)
F Matty Beniers, SEA (1st)
F Leon Draisaitl, EDM (4th)*
F Kevin Fiala, LAK (1st)
F Bo Horvat, VAN (2nd)*
F Nazem Kadri, CGY (2nd)
F Connor McDavid, EDM (6th)
F Elias Pettersson, VAN (3rd)
F Troy Terry, ANA (2nd)
D Erik Karlsson, SJS (7th)
G Stuart Skinner, EDM (1st)*
G Logan Thompson, VGK (1st)
* - selected in All-Star Fan Vote
@NYIslanders
#Isles News: The New York Islanders have acquired Bo Horvat from the Vancouver Canucks, in exchange for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a conditional first round selection in the 2023 NHL Draft.
@NYIslanders
#Isles News: The New York Islanders have acquired Bo Horvat from the Vancouver Canucks, in exchange for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a conditional first round selection in the 2023 NHL Draft.
Great get for the Islanders. They needed to add scoring and they added one of the best available players on the market. Now they just need to get him signed long term.
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New York Islanders
@NYIslanders
#Isles News: The New York Islanders have acquired Bo Horvat from the Vancouver Canucks, in exchange for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a conditional first round selection in the 2023 NHL Draft.
Great get for the Islanders. They needed to add scoring and they added one of the best available players on the market. Now they just need to get him signed long term.
good player but at this rate the isles will have no good prospects because lou just traded his top prospect AND a 1st in a supposed deep draft
@NYIslanders
#Isles News: The New York Islanders have acquired Bo Horvat from the Vancouver Canucks, in exchange for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a conditional first round selection in the 2023 NHL Draft.
Great trade for NYI IMO. Beauvillier never developed and Raty is a good prospect, but not ready to contribute (and he may bust).
1st round pick is protected.
NYI has a road to travel to make it, but if Sorokin plays well and they can add some scoring they have a shot. WAS is vulnerable IMO and PIT is to an extent.
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New York Islanders
@NYIslanders
#Isles News: The New York Islanders have acquired Bo Horvat from the Vancouver Canucks, in exchange for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a conditional first round selection in the 2023 NHL Draft.
Great get for the Islanders. They needed to add scoring and they added one of the best available players on the market. Now they just need to get him signed long term.
Yep definitely great move for the Isles. He's in the midst of a career year but he's a legit scorer. Don't know much about Raty, but the price doesn't seem exorbitant even for a rental. Especially the teams on the border of the playoffs are definitely not giving away unconditional #1's for this year with Bedard hanging out there.
even if not, not much downside if they can get him extended. pick shouldn't be a lotto pick, Raty's best case is that he's horvat and that's unlikely, and beau was more about saving money at this point than anything else.
wow. was not expecting that to be the breaking isles news over the break.
This group hit it's head on their ceiling like Goose hit the cockpit in Top Gun. Thanks for the conf runs but it's over. The majority of the lineup is in decline phase.
- They're getting Vezina goaltending and they can't even hold a wild card spot.
-The defense is a dumpster fire that can't break the puck out. This system can't work with this roster. There's a good reason the Hall of Fame coach played tight low event hockey, it was the only way to compete with this group.
I don't hate losing Beau or Raty. Raty has skills and the puck finds him, but he can't skate and unless it improves he can't play top 6.
This group hit it's head on their ceiling like Goose hit the cockpit in Top Gun. Thanks for the conf runs but it's over. The majority of the lineup is in decline phase.
- They're getting Vezina goaltending and they can't even hold a wild card spot.
-The defense is a dumpster fire that can't break the puck out. This system can't work with this roster. There's a good reason the Hall of Fame coach played tight low event hockey, it was the only way to compete with this group.
I don't hate losing Beau or Raty. Raty has skills and the puck finds him, but he can't skate and unless it improves he can't play top 6.
they need to go back playing tight low event hockey. they have a proven top pair and vez goalie, if they commit to playing defense maybe horvat gives them enough offense to get over the hump?
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Lou is going to hand out a monster extension to a player off a career year he will never replicate.
This group hit it's head on their ceiling like Goose hit the cockpit in Top Gun. Thanks for the conf runs but it's over. The majority of the lineup is in decline phase.
- They're getting Vezina goaltending and they can't even hold a wild card spot.
-The defense is a dumpster fire that can't break the puck out. This system can't work with this roster. There's a good reason the Hall of Fame coach played tight low event hockey, it was the only way to compete with this group.
I don't hate losing Beau or Raty. Raty has skills and the puck finds him, but he can't skate and unless it improves he can't play top 6.
they need to go back playing tight low event hockey. they have a proven top pair and vez goalie, if they commit to playing defense maybe horvat gives them enough offense to get over the hump?
I can't see it. There are too many problems to be solved by one deal for a center on a lucky shooting % streak. Peterson isn't hear to feed him dimes on the PP
Horvat is a beast on the dots, he's gritty, and he's scoring at a high rate (this year).
It changes everyone's role.
Even if his scoring regresses to his career norms I love the trade.
I like Horvat's game. He's a reliable 55-point player with upside. plays a 2-way game and can be on all specials units. He has 3 freaking SH goals this year.
You can say its shuffling deck chairs, but it's a huge talent upgrade especially if is extended.
No one ever accused an NHL team of having too many centers.
No one ever accused an NHL team of having too many centers.
I completely agree with you here, I'm always in favor of stacking centermen. To that point, one of the ways this could work is Lambert using the Nelson/Lee/Barzal line. It has been dominant in short stretches.
I watch every single habs game and I would estimate 95% of all power plays start with a lost face off and clear down the ice.
it shaves easily 20 seconds off the PP. Suzuki is one of my favorite young players, but he struggles with face offs like a lot of younger players. And I believe he will improve.
but that has such an effect because if you struggle with zone entries (like the habs also do, lol) you wind up with basically a fraction of the zone time on the PP, and as we all know today's power play is all about getting the goalie moving side to side and one-timing the shot.
it is so frustrating. I don't know if the Islanders have this issue, but if they do, Horvat can help - worst case having two players on the ice who can take a face off is such a smart strategy on the PP. left and right as well as guys getting tossed from the circle.
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In comment 16020294 Diversify yo bonds said:
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Lou is going to hand out a monster extension to a player off a career year he will never replicate.
This group hit it's head on their ceiling like Goose hit the cockpit in Top Gun. Thanks for the conf runs but it's over. The majority of the lineup is in decline phase.
- They're getting Vezina goaltending and they can't even hold a wild card spot.
-The defense is a dumpster fire that can't break the puck out. This system can't work with this roster. There's a good reason the Hall of Fame coach played tight low event hockey, it was the only way to compete with this group.
I don't hate losing Beau or Raty. Raty has skills and the puck finds him, but he can't skate and unless it improves he can't play top 6.
they need to go back playing tight low event hockey. they have a proven top pair and vez goalie, if they commit to playing defense maybe horvat gives them enough offense to get over the hump?
I can't see it. There are too many problems to be solved by one deal for a center on a lucky shooting % streak. Peterson isn't hear to feed him dimes on the PP
there were many many more problems 4.5 years ago when they went to low event hockey in the first place. they've had more breakdowns this year than the 4.5 combined and they are still just barely + in goal differential. Lane was Trotz' assistant for 14 years and yet for some reason he seems unable to come close to replicating the structure of trotz system.
he's very similar to (but better than) nelson. they have the exact same career shooting % at 14%, and their best year's were also almost exactly the same at 21.6% (nelson last year, horvat this year). he's going to get paid but they are going to have 4 really solid centers locked in.
Yeah I'm sure he'll continue to shoot at a 22% clip. Seems totally sustainable.
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last year and is besting it this year. and he is coming into his prime years. Theres no reason to think it doesnt continue
Yeah I'm sure he'll continue to shoot at a 22% clip. Seems totally sustainable.
he scored 31 last year shooting much closer to his career rate.
brock nelson shot 22% last year and even though he's almost half that (and under his career average) this year he's still a good player no?
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In comment 16020416 KDubbs said:
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last year and is besting it this year. and he is coming into his prime years. Theres no reason to think it doesnt continue
Yeah I'm sure he'll continue to shoot at a 22% clip. Seems totally sustainable.
he scored 31 last year shooting much closer to his career rate.
brock nelson shot 22% last year and even though he's almost half that (and under his career average) this year he's still a good player no?
The point is not to hand out 9 million to a 50 point forward. Especially when the cupboard is bare and 60% of your roster is in decline and physically breaking down.
The point is not to hand out 9 million to a 50 point forward. Especially when the cupboard is bare and 60% of your roster is in decline and physically breaking down.
the age of the roster is mostly on the bottom.
barzal (25), pelech (28), pulock (28), sorokin (27), dobson (23) is the median core and horvat (27) joins that. i think dobson is the only 1 of those 6 who hasn't made an asg.
pageau (30), mayfield (30), nelson (31), lee (32), palmieri (31) are aging but not ancient (and they've mostly produced this year).
that's the core of the top 9/top 4 and most of the players who logged the biggest minutes vs tb in the b2b ecf (and beat wsh, pitt, bos).
the biggest missing piece is behind the bench right now. with sorokin they should be leaning into the low event style. way too many careless breakdowns reminiscent of the doug weight days.
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The point is not to hand out 9 million to a 50 point forward. Especially when the cupboard is bare and 60% of your roster is in decline and physically breaking down.
the age of the roster is mostly on the bottom.
barzal (25), pelech (28), pulock (28), sorokin (27), dobson (23) is the median core and horvat (27) joins that. i think dobson is the only 1 of those 6 who hasn't made an asg.
pageau (30), mayfield (30), nelson (31), lee (32), palmieri (31) are aging but not ancient (and they've mostly produced this year).
that's the core of the top 9/top 4 and most of the players who logged the biggest minutes vs tb in the b2b ecf (and beat wsh, pitt, bos).
the biggest missing piece is behind the bench right now. with sorokin they should be leaning into the low event style. way too many careless breakdowns reminiscent of the doug weight days.
No offense but I don't know what you watch when you make these analyses.
Everybody in your second group is in decline save Brock. Lee is not the same post acl. Still good net front, lost a lot of skating and positional strength.
Pageau suffered nerve damage with that wrist injury against Boston in the playoffs. He can't break glass with his shot now.
Palmieri is nicked and missing chunks of games for two years.
Mayfield is about to enter pylon phase.
What is the plan here? Squeak in and hope Sorokin upsets the B's or Canes? Lol
I watch every single habs game and I would estimate 95% of all power plays start with a lost face off and clear down the ice.
it shaves easily 20 seconds off the PP. Suzuki is one of my favorite young players, but he struggles with face offs
As I said earlier in the thread the Devils have played half the season with Eric Haula a guy who could shoot a puck from the edge of the boat and miss the ocean because he's good on faceoffs and Jack as the C on the line isn't. Faceoffs are huge and as you said Horvat is real good at them. Is he a 50 goal scorer like this year? No. However he scored 31 last year and the going rate for a very good 2 way 30 goal guy who does the little things. Yes petterson is a stud playmaker but last time I checked Barzal is a 50 assist guy in his own right.
Interesting All Star question. Horvat is a Pacific div all star. Is he still gonna play with them or will they replace his spot?
but I do think he drops out if I had to guess.
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In comment 16020438 Diversify yo bonds said:
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The point is not to hand out 9 million to a 50 point forward. Especially when the cupboard is bare and 60% of your roster is in decline and physically breaking down.
the age of the roster is mostly on the bottom.
barzal (25), pelech (28), pulock (28), sorokin (27), dobson (23) is the median core and horvat (27) joins that. i think dobson is the only 1 of those 6 who hasn't made an asg.
pageau (30), mayfield (30), nelson (31), lee (32), palmieri (31) are aging but not ancient (and they've mostly produced this year).
that's the core of the top 9/top 4 and most of the players who logged the biggest minutes vs tb in the b2b ecf (and beat wsh, pitt, bos).
the biggest missing piece is behind the bench right now. with sorokin they should be leaning into the low event style. way too many careless breakdowns reminiscent of the doug weight days.
No offense but I don't know what you watch when you make these analyses.
Everybody in your second group is in decline save Brock. Lee is not the same post acl. Still good net front, lost a lot of skating and positional strength.
Pageau suffered nerve damage with that wrist injury against Boston in the playoffs. He can't break glass with his shot now.
Palmieri is nicked and missing chunks of games for two years.
Mayfield is about to enter pylon phase.
What is the plan here? Squeak in and hope Sorokin upsets the B's or Canes? Lol
What move would you prefer/would you have preferred Lou made?
They have the core in place to make a run. and by going all in I mean adding Karlsson or Kane for example.
Sorokin has been Vezina level good.
Just right the ship around him and they can gain some momentum.
They have the core in place to make a run.
Every skater not named Nelson or Dobson is a worse player today than they were two seasons ago. Lee, Pageau, Palmieri, and Bailey have all suffered career altering injuries and will not be what they were.
Trotz is gone.
Toews and Leddy were top 15 every year in zone exits/entries with possession. Nobody on the roster is replicating that, it's been one of the biggest issues the last two years.
This strategy is just hopium that a bunch of dead wood is going to turn back the clock and Sorokin goes Roy '86 or Hasek' 99.
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In comment 16020438 Diversify yo bonds said:
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The point is not to hand out 9 million to a 50 point forward. Especially when the cupboard is bare and 60% of your roster is in decline and physically breaking down.
the age of the roster is mostly on the bottom.
barzal (25), pelech (28), pulock (28), sorokin (27), dobson (23) is the median core and horvat (27) joins that. i think dobson is the only 1 of those 6 who hasn't made an asg.
pageau (30), mayfield (30), nelson (31), lee (32), palmieri (31) are aging but not ancient (and they've mostly produced this year).
that's the core of the top 9/top 4 and most of the players who logged the biggest minutes vs tb in the b2b ecf (and beat wsh, pitt, bos).
the biggest missing piece is behind the bench right now. with sorokin they should be leaning into the low event style. way too many careless breakdowns reminiscent of the doug weight days.
No offense but I don't know what you watch when you make these analyses.
Everybody in your second group is in decline save Brock. Lee is not the same post acl. Still good net front, lost a lot of skating and positional strength.
Pageau suffered nerve damage with that wrist injury against Boston in the playoffs. He can't break glass with his shot now.
Palmieri is nicked and missing chunks of games for two years.
Mayfield is about to enter pylon phase.
What is the plan here? Squeak in and hope Sorokin upsets the B's or Canes? Lol
"in decline" ≠ not productive.
Is Nelson on pace for a career year follow-up to his career year last year (despite not maintaining his 21% shooting%)?
are both he and lee on pace for 30 goals?
is JGP on pace for his best year as an islander?
the devils are the only team in the metro who don't rely on some players over 30. panarin/kreider are 31, zibanajed/trocheck turn 30 this year. the caps/pens basically have nobody under 30.
They have the core in place to make a run. and by going all in I mean adding Karlsson or Kane for example.
Sorokin has been Vezina level good.
Just right the ship around him and they can gain some momentum.
totally agree the big question is do they have a coach who can minimally pass a competence test?
their breakdown in structure this year has been doug weight-esque and would look unspeakably bad if sorokin wasnt sorokin. they've sold out for offense and even doing so the offense has regressed (especially the PP). they have been getting worse over the year not better.
in some ways they are like the 2021 mets in august with rojas. the pieces are there so they have enough to go all in if they want to do so. except they stupidly fired their buck and replaced him with rojas instead of the other way around and you can just tell something is off with the way they cant hold leads and show up flat way too often.
for the life of me i will never understand how mr trap lou lamoriello chose to give up a HOF defense first coach for an unknown rookie coach to add more offense instead of just signing someone like gaudreau.
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In comment 16020463 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16020438 Diversify yo bonds said:
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The point is not to hand out 9 million to a 50 point forward. Especially when the cupboard is bare and 60% of your roster is in decline and physically breaking down.
the age of the roster is mostly on the bottom.
barzal (25), pelech (28), pulock (28), sorokin (27), dobson (23) is the median core and horvat (27) joins that. i think dobson is the only 1 of those 6 who hasn't made an asg.
pageau (30), mayfield (30), nelson (31), lee (32), palmieri (31) are aging but not ancient (and they've mostly produced this year).
that's the core of the top 9/top 4 and most of the players who logged the biggest minutes vs tb in the b2b ecf (and beat wsh, pitt, bos).
the biggest missing piece is behind the bench right now. with sorokin they should be leaning into the low event style. way too many careless breakdowns reminiscent of the doug weight days.
No offense but I don't know what you watch when you make these analyses.
Everybody in your second group is in decline save Brock. Lee is not the same post acl. Still good net front, lost a lot of skating and positional strength.
Pageau suffered nerve damage with that wrist injury against Boston in the playoffs. He can't break glass with his shot now.
Palmieri is nicked and missing chunks of games for two years.
Mayfield is about to enter pylon phase.
What is the plan here? Squeak in and hope Sorokin upsets the B's or Canes? Lol
"in decline" ≠ not productive.
Is Nelson on pace for a career year follow-up to his career year last year (despite not maintaining his 21% shooting%)?
are both he and lee on pace for 30 goals?
is JGP on pace for his best year as an islander?
the devils are the only team in the metro who don't rely on some players over 30. panarin/kreider are 31, zibanajed/trocheck turn 30 this year. the caps/pens basically have nobody under 30.
You keep listing ages like a number matters more than their physical condition.
Their injuries have made them lesser players and its not going to get better. Do you watch games? This is one of the slowest teams in the league and they just got slower.
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should go all in at this point.
They have the core in place to make a run.
They absolutely do not. The two conference finals runs were fantastic, I thoroughly enjoyed this group, but it's over.
Every skater not named Nelson or Dobson is a worse player today than they were two seasons ago. Lee, Pageau, Palmieri, and Bailey have all suffered career altering injuries and will not be what they were.
Trotz is gone.
Toews and Leddy were top 15 every year in zone exits/entries with possession. Nobody on the roster is replicating that, it's been one of the biggest issues the last two years.
This strategy is just hopium that a bunch of dead wood is going to turn back the clock and Sorokin goes Roy '86 or Hasek' 99.
I mean a Vezina caliber goalie and strength up the middle. If you get good specials play you can win in the playoffs. Goalies cover a lot of warts
Obviously extenuating circumstances but the habs rode Price, Danault, and timely scoring to the SCF. Hard to rebuild while moving so may as well go for it even if a long shot
You keep listing ages like a number matters more than their physical condition.
Their injuries have made them lesser players and its not going to get better. Do you watch games? This is one of the slowest teams in the league and they just got slower.
right back at ya with the 'do you watch the games'. and to be more specific, "did you watch the games" over the last 4 years when they went from an all time bad defensive team to one of the best in hockey and right back again with basically all the same players?
did beau suck this year because his legs slowed down at...25?
it's amazing nelson is on pace for his best year ever on slow legs. that's quite an accomplishment.
sorry but from my pov the team has looked like crap because they have no structure. they are trying to play a free wheeling up and down style that doesn't fit the personnel they have and when they make mistakes they give up odd man rushes or get pinned in their own zone chasing. some periods they look great but more often they are on their heels while sorokin gets pelted. they have no showed against teams who they are clearly more talented than (AZ, SEA, OTT).
how often did that happen when trotz was here? do you think the reason that wasnt happening more often because of uber speedsters like komorov, flippula, brassard, eberle, andy greene?
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You keep listing ages like a number matters more than their physical condition.
Their injuries have made them lesser players and its not going to get better. Do you watch games? This is one of the slowest teams in the league and they just got slower.
right back at ya with the 'do you watch the games'
how often did that happen when trotz was here? do you think the reason that wasnt happening more often because of uber speedsters like komorov, flippula, brassard, eberle, andy greene?
You won't find a bigger Trotz fan than me. He's the best thing that happened to the team in decades.
He's not coming back. Lambert isn't going anywhere. I don't know what your argument is.
My argument is that this roster is irreparably damaged. The path would be to retool around Sorokin, Barzal, and Dobson.
Taking this tack only serves to deepen the coming abyss
You won't find a bigger Trotz fan than me. He's the best thing that happened to the team in decades.
He's not coming back. Lambert isn't going anywhere. I don't know what your argument is.
My argument is that this roster is irreparably damaged. The path would be to retool around Sorokin, Barzal, and Dobson.
Taking this tack only serves to deepen the coming abyss
my argument is the coach has been a huge downgrade, bordering on incompetent, and incompetent coaches get fired all the time. I think most assume Lane has already been on the hot seat and if the team continues to underperform its only going to get hotter. i dont buy baghdad botta's report that there's a chance trotz comes back even though i've been hoping for that possibility since the day they fired him. if i owned the team id give him a blank check.
as far as the roster being "irreparably damaged" i think that's moronic. the majority of their cap is tied up in the under 30 players i mentioned. 9m barzal, 5.7m pelech, 6.1m pulock, 9m on goalies (which is currently split 5m/4m but soon to be all for sorokin), dobson 4m, and seemingly soon to be another 8-9m on horvat with the space they now have. that's more than half of the cap with the players i (and i think just about anyone who watches hockey) would consider to be quality core players.
they got outshot by like 15 in the 3rd period. they gave up 5 high danger chances in that period and had 0 for themselves.
i think he saved his job sneaking into the break winning that back to back and if it were up to me i probably would have fired him over the break.
i obviously dont know what vancouvers timing was on the trade and if it was now or never im not sure how that would have impacted my decision to fire him. maybe id have held off for a week to give him 1 last chance (and to take 1 last run at trotz when he gets back from his eurotrip).
as far as the roster being "irreparably damaged" i think that's moronic. the majority of their cap is tied up in the under 30 players i mentioned. 9m barzal, 5.7m pelech, 6.1m pulock, 9m on goalies (which is currently split 5m/4m but soon to be all for sorokin), dobson 4m, and seemingly soon to be another 8-9m on horvat with the space they now have. that's more than half of the cap with the players i (and i think just about anyone who watches hockey) would consider to be quality core players.
Refer to my 10:28 yesterday. Take those players plus Bailey(shoulders) and the TB4LiH(everything) . This isn't opinion, they actually have sustained these injuries Do players with career altering injuries all of a sudden return to form? Or do you accept reality where they are in and out of the lineup in a diminished state until they hang it up?
Your quality core is essentially the same as mine, plus P and P. So we agree there. My point is extending their playoff window is dependent on changing out the dead wood surrounding them with younger, healthier players.
We agree on the coaching transition disaster. I just disagree that anything will change in that regard this season.
bailey sucks but like ladd was an inherited contract and there's just nothing you can do about it unless you want to give up a first round pick just to make him disappear. im sure they tried to pawn him off instead of beau and if there's another big trade in them they will probably try to do so again. getting another possible core player with Horvat was a better use of a first round pick than dumping bailey imo.
as far as nelson, lee, palmieri go every team has a few players in their 30's "in decline". ondrej palat is about to turn 32 for the devils and has 8 points in 17 games. he makes 6m. kreider and panarin are 31 and kreider's shooting% is down to 13% after putting up a 20% year last year. the pens and wash cores are basically entirely 35+ while also paying guys "in decline" like zucker, petry, oshie, orlov 5m+. no team's cap table is perfect.
The organizational plan is goalie hopium.
Have a good day. Go isles.
The organizational plan is goalie hopium.
Have a good day. Go isles.
legitimate contenders whose playoff records vs this team without horvat (and sorokin) were what over the prior 4 years? hopium or reality?
Their puck moving D are gone.
The only wing who ever had chemistry with 13 is gone.
Half of their forwards are diminished.
None of this production has been replaced.
Enjoy the memories of the playoff runs, it's over.
Hopefully they sign Horvat and prune the roster properly this summer.
Their puck moving D are gone.
The only wing who ever had chemistry with 13 is gone.
Half of their forwards are diminished.
None of this production has been replaced.
Enjoy the memories of the playoff runs, it's over.
Hopefully they sign Horvat and prune the roster properly this summer.
"their puck moving d are gone". loleddy? who scored half as much as dobson has the past couple years? Toews was traded before the 2020 season (second ECF run) and also never produced here what dobson has.
your entire argument is "diminished forwards" meanwhile they have more points this year than the seasons when they won those series. and they added sorokin.
trotz is the only meaningful loss on that list.
This current iteration is not viable and Trotz isn't walking through the door. Hope to be wrong.
Nothing wrong with acquiring Horvat. Nothing wrong with giving a Vezina contender a shot in short series.
The negative is the low percentage of success given their current play. This syle is unsustainable.
In the larger picture it increases the likelihood of a post Lou abyss. I'm completely with you Stu on the crap shoot of tank rebuilding. I've spent the majority of my fanhood that way.
That's why I would prefer a middle path re tool around the current core, surrendering assets if need be to move out the chaff and add a LD and two wings minimum. Then regroup with a better coach.
This current iteration is not viable and Trotz isn't walking through the door. Hope to be wrong.
the feeling is likewise as i similarly view you as a good poster, but also not to sound condescending there's simply nothing statistical to back up your observations that aside from the 6 player core we agree on there's a critical mass of forwards on the roster who are irredeemably "diminished".
here's how Dom Luszczyszyn's model (which has never been kind to the isles) values these guys as of the start of the break 2 days ago:
so you seem to misunderstand my point because i am almost entirely focused on style of play, i just have a hard time blaming the players since they don't make that choice management does. and they are individually producing in the style of play they are apparently being coached to play.
so imo the style they are trying to play is simply the wrong one. trotz' defensive style was the right one for a team whose strength is quality defense and goaltending, and it's even more true now with Sorokin. I agree Trotz is probably not coming through that door but there are other quality head coaches out there who won't be learning on the job like lane. his primary qualification was spending 14 years with trotz and yet his team has 0 resemblance to what made the trotz teams successful.
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What's the downside of adding the talent? This is not basketball. Outside of Boston who in the East looks like a world beater? Carolina is a good team but the Rangers took them out last year in a game 7 where anything can happen. Hockey history is littered with teams who were looked at at this point in the season as barely playoff contenders and then got behind a hot goaltender, one hot line and the others filling roles and went to the finals. You have the elite goaltender. I don't care why you say about your defense, when your goalie's gaa is a bit above 2.30 with a save % in the .920's you're keeping the puck out of the net. You add some scoring and anything can happen. Yeah you want to stay out of the WC2 spot vs Boston, but Pittsburgh is well within reach. Out of the current WC teams and contenders- Wash, Pitt, Buff and Florida the Isles have the best goaltending. What's the other option? Tearing it down and rebuilding? Realize the Devils have made the playoffs once in the last 10 years and that's with winning the lottery twice. Rebuilding can take a long time in hockey. With the lottery being more like the NBA now and the NHL draft being the least predictable of all leagues, rebuilding can be real tough.
Nothing wrong with acquiring Horvat. Nothing wrong with giving a Vezina contender a shot in short series.
The negative is the low percentage of success given their current play. This syle is unsustainable.
In the larger picture it increases the likelihood of a post Lou abyss. I'm completely with you Stu on the crap shoot of tank rebuilding. I've spent the majority of my fanhood that way.
That's why I would prefer a middle path re tool around the current core, surrendering assets if need be to move out the chaff and add a LD and two wings minimum. Then regroup with a better coach.
you're first post in the thread was "deck chairs on titantic" so perhaps we all just misunderstood your definition of middle path?
also you may want to have a word with this guy who earlier in the thread didn't seem to agree that there's "nothing wrong with acquiring horvat"
In comment 16020423 Diversify yo bonds said:
In comment 16020438 Diversify yo bonds said:
Horvat is having an outlier season, and the resulting overpay will hinder the multiple roster moves that are needed.
Horvat is having an outlier season, and the resulting overpay will hinder the multiple roster moves that are needed.
they have 11.5m more under the cap to spend this year.
they project to have about 16m free to spend under cap in the offseason with 17/21 active skaters under contract (horvat extension will likely eat up more than half of that).
horvat is probably the best and one of the youngest players lined up for UFA this summer, and had someone else traded for him and extended him they may never have gotten a shot at him. the same may end up true of meier. so if you want younger better forwards to retool around this core im not sure who/how you envisioned doing that.