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BiteyMax’s Next Day “Non-Emotional” Thoughts

Biteymax22 : 1/22/2023 9:48 am
My non-emotional thoughts from yesterday’s game. As always, feel free to add your own, comment on mine, etc…


Giants 7, Philly 38. Not how I wanted our season to end nor was it how I thought it would. While I wouldn’t shy in telling you that Philly has a significantly better roster, I was certain that the team would play hard and the coaching staff would come up with a good plan to keep it close. In reality we were never in this game, from the first drive where Philly easily marched down the field to the last snap, we were beaten. People can chose to look at this loss one of two ways: First would be the soul crushing loss that it looks like on the surface with no good in it at all, the second way to view it would be as a bonus game we should have never been playing that we should have been happy to be in. Me personally, you should never be happy just being there. We all hoped or more, we didn’t get it yesterday, but we did for the season as an entirety.


Offense:

QB - Jones 15/27 for 135 and an INT. A state line that very much looked like something from the Garrett era. Jones also added 6 carries for 24 yards but failed to make an impact running or throwing. As we’ve watched Jones take massive steps this year we were reminded yesterday that he’ll never be a guy that can play “hero ball” like Mahomes, Allen or Burrow. While he’s shown himself to be a capable starting NFL QB this season, if you want to win a Super Bowl with him you’re going to have to rely on a much stronger supporting cast than we have right now.

RB - Truth be told, we didn’t run the ball badly yesterday but there’s two caveats to that. First was we didn’t run the ball much, second was we spent most of the game running against pass focused defenses. So while Barkley and Breida averaged 6 per carry, I wouldn’t go out of my way to call it a stellar performance by either. If Barkley wants to be paid like a top 3 back he needs to step up in these games and make big time plays running or catching.

WR - Richie James had the best game of the group catching 7/10 for 51 yards however no other WRs caught more than 1 ball yesterday. There were quite a few times where Jones had time to throw but couldn’t find an open receiver. We’ve all known for quite sometime that WR was a big need of this team and hoped we found something in Hodgins but he showed last night he needs to be a 2, 3, or 4. He’s not a guy that can match up against a big time CB and succeed. I expect at least 1 WR drafted in the first 2 days of the draft and also some moderate veteran signings. We’ll rebuild this position.

TE - For the group as a whole they had 2 receptions for 20 yards on 4 targets, couple that with the fact that we ran very little yesterday and I’d call this a quiet to bad game for the group. The good news is I think we have two guys in Bellinger and Cager who will do well with an offseason of work and I still expect additions to the group in the offseason. Play was below average yesterday from this group, bottom line is we expected that.

OL - Jones sacked 5 times yesterday with all of them coming from Edge players. As we spoke about before this game, Evan Neal was our weak link and they exploited correspondingly. On top of that I saw at least one stunt that free’d a rusher in the middle who got to Jones. I believe Feliciano was the one who missed the assignment in that situation. Add center to the list of positions we need to upgrade this offseason. For now RT is going to depend on Neal taking a jump from year 1 to year 2 like Thomas did.


Defense:

DT - I’ll make some comments on this in the MLB section of this write up as well, but to my eye this is what I saw from the Eagles as their strategy yesterday: Double Lawrence and Williams, let someone else beat you. Way too many times yesterday did I see a run where 4 blockers were assigned to the Dex/Leo combo, who still held their ground, and yet the run was still successful. While this wasn’t their typical dominate game, they still played well and could have used some support for their team. Also notice early in the game Dex went out for a few plays and they went right at Ellis 2x for big plays…

OLB - While I can applaud Thibs for a few effort plays making tackles in pursuit, this was a very quiet game for this group. No sacks from them, very few pressures and no impact plays made during the game. Knowing that Hurts is good with ball action and option reads, we also lost contain on him and Sanders more than once yesterday. While we have 2 ascending players for the future here, we need depth that can make an impact.

MLB - I can say this bluntly, bad game from our MLBs. As I mentioned in the DT write up the Eagles seemed to ignore even trying to get to the second level with the thinking “I don’t think their MLBs can make a play”. They didn’t…. Too many missed tackles, wrong gaps take etc… from these two. It hasn’t been talked about a whole lot but one coaching decision I’m going to ask about is the one to bench McFadden in favor of Davis. Maybe its just me, but I haven’t seen “IT” from Davis in his short time with us. He’s not a guy I’m going to factor in next season nor is Smith.

CB - If I’m being frank it wasn’t actually a bad game for our CBs. While we played more zone than I expected Philly’s “Big 2” of Brown and Smith 9 catches for 83 yards and a TD on 16 targets despite Hurts having time to throw all day. I have to believe that this part of the program was executed. Still, I don’t want to go into next year relying on Fabian Moreau to cover Devonte Smith.

S - Good in run support, good playing over the top, but where this group got killed was trying to cover Goedert. While Dallas only caught 5 balls, they were all 5 of his targets and came at important times in the game. It felt like they had the TE open at will all day yesterday. While I love McKinney, he was burned in man coverage by him more than once. For a guy we talk about as a possible pro bowler and long term player, we needed better.


Coaching:

Games like this are so hard to read from a coaching standpoint. While you can yell and scream for them to make a certain adjustment, or start running certain play etc… there isn’t a whole lot you can do when you’re getting beat physically up and down the field like we did yesterday. While I completely agree there were some thing we could have done differently these all would have been dependent on the players executing, which wasn’t something they did yesterday. Still, when you lose by 31, everyone is usually at fault. I think the coaches won’t walk away from this game happy with themselve…


Conclusion:

Again, not how I wanted to see our season end. I hate the Eagles and I work with a ton of arrogant Eagles fans who will be lighting up my email box tomorrow for sure. The solace in all of this is that myself and a lot of others on this board expected us to be eliminated by mid-November and yet we found ourselves on January 21st watching a playoff game. If this game does anything for us as fans it should be level set going into the offseason. We’ve see past front offices make poor strategic decisions because they took too much stock in a winning streak late in the year, or a couple of fluke games we managed to pull out. Last night was a reminder we still have a long way to go to build this roster, but this season shows we at least have a few building blocks to work with.
Great write up and thanks for putting in the time.  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/22/2023 9:59 am : link

I’m not happy with how the season ended or who it ended to, but outside actually winning the game… I thought it was the best possible result. If we kept the game close then there would be a good contingent of people that would think we are better than we are. Maybe going into the off-season thinking we are a player or 2 away. We aren’t.

The thrashing we took last night leaves no doubt. We have a talent deficiency and it was glaring last night. It was a great reality check. We can’t play shit defenses like the Colts and Vikings every week.

I think that puts us in a great place to continue the proper kind of rebuild. IMO.
nice write up Bitey, but a couple of questions for you:  
Victor in CT : 1/22/2023 10:02 am : link
how does Barkley "step up" when he only gets 9 carries?

how does Jones play "hero ball" with a terrible OL (63% of drop backs pressured) AND no top tier WRs? Guys you mentioned usually have at least 1 of those units top tier.
Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
joeinpa : 1/22/2023 10:02 am : link
Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.
Reversion to Mean  
MeanBunny : 1/22/2023 10:05 am : link
Most everyone reverted back to season start. Bad O-Line and Jones had nowhere to go or throw. Even some throws in garbage time were dropped. Our Wides were outrun and matched. Jones never really ran.
Defense looked slow. Thibs was flopping around. Safeties were flat out awful.
Oh well.
Barkley? He's about the only guy who did step up.  
Matt M. : 1/22/2023 10:05 am : link
He was only on the field for 65% of the offensive snaps and only touched the ball a handful of times. If they leaned more on the running game, as most of us expected, this game may have looked differently. We probably still lose, but we may have made a game of it. Instead, it seemed like they wanted to do more of what they did last week, except the Philly D is so much better in every regard and not the right D for that gameplan.
...  
HewlettGiant : 1/22/2023 10:06 am : link
<<<<<<<<<<< Last night was a reminder we still have a long way to go to build this roster, but this season shows we at least have a few building blocks to work with. >>>>>>>>>>>>

Bitey...thanks for your weekly reviews...the problem I have with the line you wrote above, is that every NFL team has building blocks...we showed that we cannot compete with that team and likely not the upper echelon teams unless you want to put Minnesota there. We have a dearth of talent at far too many positions for me to be comfortable going forward. We still are needy at OL, we clearly have issues at WR, I suppose DJ gets the 30 plus million, not saying he does not deserve it, not saying I am thrilled he will get it. Our defense has no one at inside LB.....We were 27th vs. the run, we were still giving chunk plays far too often.

Better than previous years...of course, but this carries into next year? Dallas and P[hilly are still light years better than us, and we have not closed that gap.

Backing up that last comment  
Matt M. : 1/22/2023 10:08 am : link
A lot of focus has been on the decision to go for it on 4-8. I had a bigger problem with the play before. I know they are trying to not be predictable, but sometimes on 3rd and short, you just feed your RB, who is the best player on the team, knowing it's 4 down territory. Then if you do pass, and have your QB roll out, he has to fucking throw the ball away to keep 4th down short yardage. Jones running out of bounds for the sack was a huge mistake.
As for the D  
Matt M. : 1/22/2023 10:13 am : link
stopping the run has been an Achilles hell all season. Because we are trying to do so with big, lumbering ILBs, and only 2 true DL. This is also why TEs killed us all year. The same 2 lumbering ILBs are not very good in coverage and our 2 EDGE are never used in coverage. This is a big reason I don't agree when people say we run a 3-4. We do not. We do not have 2 OLBs and we have no DEs. EDGE and DE are not really the same, especially in a 3-4.

The only player suited to play DE in a 3-4 is Williams, and that is not the best use of him. To play a true 4-3 we need better depth at DT and at least 1 true 4-3 DE. KT and/or Ward could potentially play DE in a 4-3. The other EDGE guys are probably not best suited for full time, hand in the dirt work. For a 3-4, besides DE, all LB positions are a weakness.
Gotta disagree about the DBs  
Vanzetti : 1/22/2023 10:13 am : link
Eagles game plan was to target them with screens and some outside runs, in the belief that Giants smallish CBs would not be able to get off blocks and make tackles.

This proved to be 100 percent correct. Adoree is a good cover man but he was a complete liability against all the runs and run-like screens. Julian Love was also getting destroyed by Philly blockers. Ditto for the other DBs.

This is also where they missed Bradberry who is 215 lbs and can play the run. Collins also should have been playing
RE: Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
stoneman : 1/22/2023 10:15 am : link
In comment 16007348 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.


+1 selective memory for some of these QB experts. Mahomes didn't show up for the biggest game - it happens.
RE: nice write up Bitey, but a couple of questions for you:  
PatersonPlank : 1/22/2023 10:17 am : link
In comment 16007346 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
how does Barkley "step up" when he only gets 9 carries?

how does Jones play "hero ball" with a terrible OL (63% of drop backs pressured) AND no top tier WRs? Guys you mentioned usually have at least 1 of those units top tier.


Good questions. Enquiring minds want to know.
Giants used to be horrible.  
Blueworm : 1/22/2023 10:20 am : link
Now they're okay.

Bit of a jump to excellence.
RE: RE: Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 10:23 am : link
In comment 16007379 stoneman said:
Quote:
In comment 16007348 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.



+1 selective memory for some of these QB experts. Mahomes didn't show up for the biggest game - it happens.


Huh? Mahomes was completely hobbled with a significant injury in the AFCC and Super Bowl 2 years ago. There’s no comparison to yesterday. Good grief.
Nice job  
Big Blue '56 : 1/22/2023 10:23 am : link
and no, we don’t have a “long way to go.”
You’re never as good or bad as you think  
djm : 1/22/2023 10:25 am : link
Teams improve and regress all the time. Win or lose last night, nyg need to get better. If this was a poker hand, nyg need more outs. Simple as that. Nice year. If you don’t win the super bowl it’s going to end badly, just like this season did.

Coaching and good play get you to January. Difference makers get you to February. We need more difference makers. Some of those guys are here already. More development is needed to unearth more difference makers and the draft/fa will hopefully find even more.

I see a lot of people saying the hardest part is going from good to great but I think it’s harder to go from terrible to good. NYG have cleared that hurdle. Now they need to clear another one. Sometimes it isn’t as linear as one would hope. Just keep building. No panic moves no stupid shit just find difference makers.
RE: RE: Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 10:26 am : link
In comment 16007379 stoneman said:
Quote:
In comment 16007348 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.



+1 selective memory for some of these QB experts. Mahomes didn't show up for the biggest game - it happens.


I’ll take one bad Mahomes postseason game out of 12 if it means I’m getting 300 yards and 2.5 tds on average.

Bitey  
cosmicj : 1/22/2023 10:27 am : link
Thanks for the level headed thoughts.

Dallas and Philly will be really good next season, too. We need to think about the long term.
RE: RE: RE: Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
joeinpa : 1/22/2023 10:28 am : link
In comment 16007407 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007379 stoneman said:


Quote:


In comment 16007348 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.



+1 selective memory for some of these QB experts. Mahomes didn't show up for the biggest game - it happens.



Huh? Mahomes was completely hobbled with a significant injury in the AFCC and Super Bowl 2 years ago. There’s no comparison to yesterday. Good grief.


Mahomes was playing injured in Super Bowl? , you sure about that, what was the injury?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
PatersonPlank : 1/22/2023 10:29 am : link
In comment 16007428 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16007407 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 16007379 stoneman said:


Quote:


In comment 16007348 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.



+1 selective memory for some of these QB experts. Mahomes didn't show up for the biggest game - it happens.



Huh? Mahomes was completely hobbled with a significant injury in the AFCC and Super Bowl 2 years ago. There’s no comparison to yesterday. Good grief.



Mahomes was playing injured in Super Bowl? , you sure about that, what was the injury?


Mahomes injury was his OL was banged up and sucked, and was dominated. Sound familiar?
Another very reasonable write-up. Let's hope the front office can  
Ira : 1/22/2023 10:29 am : link
bring in some players who are difference makers for us.
When you’re well coached  
djm : 1/22/2023 10:30 am : link
Finding those decent players is easier than when the team and coaching is a train wreck.

I’m not worried at all about plugging holes here. I’m more concerned with finding the guy that takes a 20 yard pass to the house or the guy they gets 2 sacks against a pro bowl guard. The TE that breaks 4 tackles on 3rd and 10. The right tackle that reduces a good edge player to rubble.

Some of those guys might be here. Some aren’t. Player development. This is a big offseason.
Mahomes made some stellar plays in that Tampa Super Bowl.  
cosmicj : 1/22/2023 10:33 am : link
I was wowed by his passing under difficult circumstances.
Good point regarding 3-4  
kelly : 1/22/2023 10:35 am : link
To play 3-4 effectively you need three guys who can two gap. We only have two, Dex and Williams. We need another two gap defensive end. Ojulari should be an off ball linebacker like Carl Banks. Thibs should be rush linebacker.

Should be able to find two gap end in round two or three. This would make our run defense much stouter. Also allow Ojulari to cover Tight End. This improves defense in multiple areas.
Just keep things in perspective  
djm : 1/22/2023 10:37 am : link
Especially with the qb. 05 happened. Then the playoff loss. Then 06 seemed like a step back. Then 07. Then January 08.

Keep knocking on the door. Good synergy between the staff and GM. Find difference makers.

We’re fine.
RE: nice write up Bitey, but a couple of questions for you:  
M.S. : 1/22/2023 10:43 am : link
In comment 16007346 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
how does Barkley "step up" when he only gets 9 carries?

how does Jones play "hero ball" with a terrible OL (63% of drop backs pressured) AND no top tier WRs? Guys you mentioned usually have at least 1 of those units top tier.

Victor in CT... well said.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Even Mahomes wasn’t playing  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 10:47 am : link
In comment 16007428 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16007407 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 16007379 stoneman said:


Quote:


In comment 16007348 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Hero ball behind that O line yesterday; remember the Super Bowl 2 years ago

Daniel was lousy yesterday, it happens.



+1 selective memory for some of these QB experts. Mahomes didn't show up for the biggest game - it happens.



Huh? Mahomes was completely hobbled with a significant injury in the AFCC and Super Bowl 2 years ago. There’s no comparison to yesterday. Good grief.



Mahomes was playing injured in Super Bowl? , you sure about that, what was the injury?


He had a foot/toe injury they had to shoot up each playoff game. He also had a minor injury to his non throwing shoulder. He tried playing hero ball that game but to no avail. OL were literally all a bunch of backups. Chiefs got blown out so that’s the comparison but totally different games, teams, players, QB situations.

That’s why I don’t like the analogy here.

Nice work  
Rudy5757 : 1/22/2023 10:54 am : link
The team came out flat. We were over matched coming in and then they open with that long pass and quick TD. The game got out of hand quickly and we couldn’t recover. Sometimes you get whipped. I was so disgusted last night.

I think we got out coached and out played. I thought there was a glimmer of hope when we were down 28-7 with the ball. A quick strike and it’s a 2 score game. The decision to punt was wrong. It’s a playoff game where you need 3 TDs just to tie and there are 12 minutes left. No excuse for punting there in my mind. It was a tall task either way but to me that is 100% the wrong decision.

In 1985 the Bears crushed the Giants 21-0, in 1986 we won the Super Bowl. Maybe this is a stepping stone like that game was.

I expect Jones to be back, Barkley as well. The Wr group will be an overhaul with 1 big FA and a high draft pick. The OL will have 2 new interior starters with Neal getting 1 more year. On D we need new ILBs. Maybe Beavers can come back, we should have kept Martinez, he can at least tackle. I expect us to address CB with a high draft pick.

We will be a good team next season, year 2 in this system. I have a bad taste in my mouth from yesterday but the long term future of this team is bright and we learned a lot this season.
Thanks Bitey.  
section125 : 1/22/2023 10:56 am : link
Depended on you for a level headed write up after every game before the Sy'56 report. You did a great job this year and appreciate, very much, your effort.

Unless Daboll was knowingly experimenting with players to see where the team was, going forward, in the one quarter I watched, it was a pretty bad job. Going for it on 4th and 8 in the 1st quarter was not smart. He may have pre-determined that he needed to go drive for drive with the Eagles and that is why he went for it. IDK.

The Giants seemed to have a lot of trouble with footing - lots of slips...
RE: As for the D  
Dankbeerman : 1/22/2023 10:58 am : link
In comment 16007370 Matt M. said:
Quote:
stopping the run has been an Achilles hell all season. Because we are trying to do so with big, lumbering ILBs, and only 2 true DL. This is also why TEs killed us all year. The same 2 lumbering ILBs are not very good in coverage and our 2 EDGE are never used in coverage. This is a big reason I don't agree when people say we run a 3-4. We do not. We do not have 2 OLBs and we have no DEs. EDGE and DE are not really the same, especially in a 3-4.

The only player suited to play DE in a 3-4 is Williams, and that is not the best use of him. To play a true 4-3 we need better depth at DT and at least 1 true 4-3 DE. KT and/or Ward could potentially play DE in a 4-3. The other EDGE guys are probably not best suited for full time, hand in the dirt work. For a 3-4, besides DE, all LB positions are a weakness.

Ojulari and Thibs can be the edge player but we need another lineman on the field besides willams and lawerence. The reliance on 2 down libeman killed us. If we are going to play that way we need 2 stud LB's behind them.
Ojulari  
bc4life : 1/22/2023 11:02 am : link
has to stay healthy.
Here is another non emotional thought…  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/22/2023 11:02 am : link
Nick Siranni is a fuckface.
D  
mittenedman : 1/22/2023 11:03 am : link
I’m going to pick on Wink for a second. I still think he’s a big time DC but he got his ass kicked in the playoffs. Gave up an opening drive TD in both games and the QBs were way too comfortable.

I thought he’d have his D dialed in but it was the opposite. They looked terrible.
wondered if Phill was  
bc4life : 1/22/2023 11:04 am : link
playing hurt yesterday
Great job as usual Bitey  
The Mike : 1/22/2023 11:06 am : link
Very hard to be non-emotional after that stinkfest, so I applaud your ability to do so in such a timely manner. Very much appreciated and hope you continue to do this next year. Along with Sy, your weekly posts for me are a part of the must read curriculum of BBI University.

This is one of those moments as you say where two things can be true. It is a remarkable accomplishment to have played the game, but once here, there is no excusing away the pitiful performance we witnessed. Yes, the Eagles are good. But never do I recall an "ascending Giants team" looking the way they did yesterday. The 1993 Niners game is being bandied about as worse, but that was an aging team's last hurrah before the disastrous Dave Brown era. And the 2005 Carolina loss was at least a game until the second half. The Giants defense actually played well that day, but the offense turned the ball over five times. The only time we were in yesterday's game was when we won the coin toss.

This was easily the worst Giants playoff game that I witnessed in my half century of fandom. There were no silver linings whatsoever in this game and nobody stood tall. Most critically Brian Daboll. No effective game plan. Inability to make effective adjustments. Abandonment of the run too early. Bad play calls - the two punt decisions in the first and then fourth quarter could not have been more wrong.

Unfortunately, we cannot unsee what we saw. And we cannot unknow what we now know. Will it affect our path forward? My guess is yes. It must. Beating inferior teams in a year with a soft schedule inflated our sense of where we are. We are realistically not a year ahead of schedule as we had recently hypothesized. Daboll had a great year and I think there is unanimity that we have found our coach. But let's hope we never again witness something like we did yesterday. Nick Sirianni rebounded successfully yesterday after his blowout loss last year. Hopefully Daboll does it next year.

I suspect though, that the debate on DJ and SB will only grow and that people's views will not be changed because of yesterday. If you love DJ, you will explain yesterday as an aberration, due to the Eagles defense or our lack of offensive firepower. If you believe his ceiling is that of an average NFL game manager with above average mobility, than yesterday could not have been more conclusive. The fundamental question will be, how can you pay a quarterback elite money when doing so will by definition limit the resources necessary to give him the firepower he needs?

And re SB, the issue is not his talent. It is the economic risk of locking into a high priced running back for an extended period of time at this point of the rebuild. His injury history continues to lead me to believe that franchise tag is the most sensible outcome. Which complicates further the DJ situation.

Tough decisions ahead.
Agree with Vanzetti on performance of DB’s  
Rick in Dallas : 1/22/2023 11:08 am : link
They could not get off the blocks of Eagles WR’s all game long.
It was a huge factor in rushing and passing defense besides the putrid play of ILB’s.
Giants cannot cover TE’s. The Achilles Heel of our defense for years now.
RE: D  
section125 : 1/22/2023 11:08 am : link
In comment 16007544 mittenedman said:
Quote:
I’m going to pick on Wink for a second. I still think he’s a big time DC but he got his ass kicked in the playoffs. Gave up an opening drive TD in both games and the QBs were way too comfortable.

I thought he’d have his D dialed in but it was the opposite. They looked terrible.


Yep, I felt that way in Minny until the 4th quarter, too. I thought the offensive and defensive game plans sucked.
RE: Bitey  
Johnny5 : 1/22/2023 11:09 am : link
In comment 16007422 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Thanks for the level headed thoughts.

Dallas and Philly will be really good next season, too. We need to think about the long term.

This is true. Their rosters are so much better than ours. It's like night and day. Honestly, I think WFT has a better roster as well. This is where it's time for Schoen to show us what he's got. The good news is we clearly have the right head coach.
Hard to be non-emotional  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/22/2023 11:09 am : link
I said the same thing last week in a totally different context.

Losing in the way we did frankly sucked, especially to a hated team like the dirty birds.

Some thoughts---the anti-Daniel Jones posters are back in almost full force almost gleefully saying I told you so as if the rest of the team was so good that only he held them back.

There is a lot of criticism of Daboll for going for it early on 4th and 8. It was a bad decision because it did not work. If it had worked and then they scored later in the drive to tie the game early, it would have been a great decision. Same as game 1 going for 2 late against Carolina, great because it worked; terrible if it had not worked.

Last thought--thank you for these weekly comments. Too bad that there is not at least one more week's worth to look forward to.
I don’t fully agree with your point about DJ  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/22/2023 11:10 am : link
At this point I wouldn’t compare him to those top 3 guys, but the playmakers surrounding those 3 are also not at all comparable to what the Giants have…. Not to mention the defense (and DBs) we were facing.

Also - Barkley had a relatively quiet game, but we were down 3 TDS in the blink of an eye. It’s kind of hard to keep the RB involved under those circumstances.
RE: Hard to be non-emotional  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/22/2023 11:17 am : link
In comment 16007571 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
I said the same thing last week in a totally different context.

Losing in the way we did frankly sucked, especially to a hated team like the dirty birds.

Some thoughts---the anti-Daniel Jones posters are back in almost full force almost gleefully saying I told you so as if the rest of the team was so good that only he held them back.

There is a lot of criticism of Daboll for going for it early on 4th and 8. It was a bad decision because it did not work. If it had worked and then they scored later in the drive to tie the game early, it would have been a great decision. Same as game 1 going for 2 late against Carolina, great because it worked; terrible if it had not worked.

Last thought--thank you for these weekly comments. Too bad that there is not at least one more week's worth to look forward to.


One more thought--people are downgrading that we got to the playoffs because we did not beat enough teams with winning records. Yet in addition to to Jacksonville and Baltimore who we beat, Green Bay would have been in the playoffs if they beat us and the same could be said for Washington. Plus we beat Tennessee before they lost Tannehill and Henry for a while. And of course Minnesota just stunk despite winning 14 games, just another bad team like the Colts.
We need to stop with the Minny sucks so it wasn't a good win mantra  
PatersonPlank : 1/22/2023 11:24 am : link
They went 13-4 and won their division. They were a good team. We had to beat a 13-4 team on the road, in the playoffs, in front of 60,000 or so of their fans. Yes their offense was better than their defense, but I don't get this rush to diminish them. That was a high quality win.
Those  
Toth029 : 1/22/2023 11:41 am : link
Heroball remarks in the OP.

Can the Giants get Diggs, Chase/Higgins/Boyd, or Kelce?
RE: We need to stop with the Minny sucks so it wasn't a good win mantra  
rsjem1979 : 1/22/2023 11:51 am : link
In comment 16007624 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
They went 13-4 and won their division. They were a good team. We had to beat a 13-4 team on the road, in the playoffs, in front of 60,000 or so of their fans. Yes their offense was better than their defense, but I don't get this rush to diminish them. That was a high quality win.


They had a negative point differential and according to DVOA were the 27th best team in the NFL and the 9th worst playoff team in the last four decades.

Context is required. It was an enjoyable win but the Vikings are not good.
RE: RE: We need to stop with the Minny sucks so it wasn't a good win mantra  
section125 : 1/22/2023 11:56 am : link
In comment 16007693 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007624 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


They went 13-4 and won their division. They were a good team. We had to beat a 13-4 team on the road, in the playoffs, in front of 60,000 or so of their fans. Yes their offense was better than their defense, but I don't get this rush to diminish them. That was a high quality win.



They had a negative point differential and according to DVOA were the 27th best team in the NFL and the 9th worst playoff team in the last four decades.

Context is required. It was an enjoyable win but the Vikings are not good.


The context was that they were 13-4 and won their division handily. And were one win away from #1 seed. Yes the defense was bad, so that means their offense was really good.
No doubt that Philly, Dallas an SF were better teams. But you do not win 13 games being bad.
RE: Hard to be non-emotional  
Brown_Hornet : 1/22/2023 12:02 pm : link
In comment 16007571 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
I said the same thing last week in a totally different context.

Losing in the way we did frankly sucked, especially to a hated team like the dirty birds.

Some thoughts---the anti-Daniel Jones posters are back in almost full force almost gleefully saying I told you so as if the rest of the team was so good that only he held them back.

There is a lot of criticism of Daboll for going for it early on 4th and 8. It was a bad decision because it did not work. If it had worked and then they scored later in the drive to tie the game early, it would have been a great decision. Same as game 1 going for 2 late against Carolina, great because it worked; terrible if it had not worked.

Last thought--thank you for these weekly comments. Too bad that there is not at least one more week's worth to look forward to.
Oddly, today is a non-emotional breeze.

RE: RE: RE: We need to stop with the Minny sucks so it wasn't a good win mantra  
rsjem1979 : 1/22/2023 12:06 pm : link
In comment 16007704 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007693 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


In comment 16007624 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


They went 13-4 and won their division. They were a good team. We had to beat a 13-4 team on the road, in the playoffs, in front of 60,000 or so of their fans. Yes their offense was better than their defense, but I don't get this rush to diminish them. That was a high quality win.



They had a negative point differential and according to DVOA were the 27th best team in the NFL and the 9th worst playoff team in the last four decades.

Context is required. It was an enjoyable win but the Vikings are not good.



The context was that they were 13-4 and won their division handily. And were one win away from #1 seed. Yes the defense was bad, so that means their offense was really good.
No doubt that Philly, Dallas an SF were better teams. But you do not win 13 games being bad.


Looking at the standings in the newspaper isn’t context. DVOA accounts for a team’s overall strength based on detailed analyses.

The Vikings record was a mirage.
RE: Barkley? He's about the only guy who did step up.  
GiantGrit : 1/22/2023 12:14 pm : link
In comment 16007356 Matt M. said:
Quote:
He was only on the field for 65% of the offensive snaps and only touched the ball a handful of times. If they leaned more on the running game, as most of us expected, this game may have looked differently. We probably still lose, but we may have made a game of it. Instead, it seemed like they wanted to do more of what they did last week, except the Philly D is so much better in every regard and not the right D for that gameplan.


I’m with you all the way, the only thing I can think off is Kafka using a short pass game in a similar facet as a run game to make 3rd down manageable. But I could have told you that wasn’t gonna work.

The run was the pathway to victory, not that it would have happened or made the coaches look better if it also failed.

Giants have to commit hard to beating the Eagles upfront or they’ll keep losing. Too much finesse, not enough talent either
RE: Reversion to Mean  
Payasdaddy : 1/22/2023 12:17 pm : link
In comment 16007355 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
Most everyone reverted back to season start. Bad O-Line and Jones had nowhere to go or throw. Even some throws in garbage time were dropped. Our Wides were outrun and matched. Jones never really ran.
Defense looked slow. Thibs was flopping around. Safeties were flat out awful.
Oh well.

Yep
Kinda cemented what what all kinda knew. We have holes and we’re overachievers ( or maxed out our talent). Philly light yrs ahead of us in depth and skill
2023 FA real important and so is draft. Even if we keep most of our own and have a successful draft ( get a few real solid picks and a few more solid depth), we still won’t be on their level.
GM / HC usually needs 3 yrs to get “ his roster. We may even take a step back next yr as we do that. I do expect to compete for a WC spot since league has a bunch of crappy teams.
We may have 11 draft picks. I would expect around 8-9 after some draft day maneuvers
I would load up on both lines, ILB , cb and WR. That could encompass all the picks. Double down on lines.
FA. Lower cost areas to plug some holes. ILB, 2nd TE who blocks real well, maybe dline depth . IOL. We may only have the coin to sign 1-2

Really hoping guys like beavers, DJ Davidson and Marcus M come back and compete for time or give us that valuable depth we have been lacking. Wandale in mid yr would be nice
RE: nice write up Bitey, but a couple of questions for you:  
Biteymax22 : 1/22/2023 12:24 pm : link
In comment 16007346 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
how does Barkley "step up" when he only gets 9 carries?

how does Jones play "hero ball" with a terrible OL (63% of drop backs pressured) AND no top tier WRs? Guys you mentioned usually have at least 1 of those units top tier.


As far as Barkley my point was if you’re looking to extend him and pay him 15mil a year, do you want to do that for a guy who can pushed out of the game plan due to game flow? We have a very interesting decision on him.

As for Jones, when I refer to “Hero Ball” that usually indicates that you aren’t getting help from your supporting cast yet still making things work. Do Allen, Mahomes and Burrow do this every single week? No. Have they laid some eggs? Yes. But buy and large they have the ability to elevate those around them and produce in bad situations. While I think Jones is a capable starting QB, we can’t count on him to be someone to win in bad situations, he needs a strong supporting cast.
This team maximized it's talent  
CornerStone246+17 : 1/22/2023 12:34 pm : link
Simply put, Philly is on another level talent wise at the moment.

Which of our WRs would even by a #2WR for ANY of the NFC east teams?

Thomas in the 2nd half of his rookie year definitely showed some flashes after Columbo was fired and Gugliemo was brought in. Neal really didnt seem to have a similar progression curve. Im not giving up on him at OT but I would have a contingency plan to play him at OG next year. What does that look like? Maybe a guy that can play OG/OT in FA?
Were the Giants protecting Saquon  
M.S. : 1/22/2023 3:32 pm : link

From some injury he has? One of our best players just did not get nearly enough touches. Very odd.
Probably the first write up of yours I've disagreed with  
Dinger : 1/22/2023 4:57 pm : link
Jones was not good yesterday. He seemed to have his happy feet and indecision cap on yesterday. He was off on a couple of throws particularly the Slayton down the sideline pass(I think we move on from Slayton next year with Hodgins given his WR3 role). when DJ scrambled he was not decisive even throwing the ball away. Hopefully this gives us some bargaining room with him this offseason, because I think he is a guy we can win with. I think back to this time last year or even the beginning of this season and i think EVERYONE of us would have traded DJ and a 1st rounder for Brady, Rodgers or Wilson. I'm not saying DJ is in their league, but they all had a year surrounded by bad players or bad coaching or both and they looked bad and couldn't win. IF you are going to tell me you'd rather have Hurtz then he better bring along Kelce Johnson Brown Smith and Goedert oh and Dickerson, just to firm up the IOL.
RE: As for the D  
Angel Eyes : 1/22/2023 10:06 pm : link
In comment 16007370 Matt M. said:
Quote:
stopping the run has been an Achilles hell all season. Because we are trying to do so with big, lumbering ILBs, and only 2 true DL. This is also why TEs killed us all year. The same 2 lumbering ILBs are not very good in coverage and our 2 EDGE are never used in coverage. This is a big reason I don't agree when people say we run a 3-4. We do not. We do not have 2 OLBs and we have no DEs. EDGE and DE are not really the same, especially in a 3-4.

The only player suited to play DE in a 3-4 is Williams, and that is not the best use of him. To play a true 4-3 we need better depth at DT and at least 1 true 4-3 DE. KT and/or Ward could potentially play DE in a 4-3. The other EDGE guys are probably not best suited for full time, hand in the dirt work. For a 3-4, besides DE, all LB positions are a weakness.

We're also soft on the edges and aren't good against the screen pass.

FWIW, Sy didn't think much of the positionless defense we've been using under both Graham and Wink. This is from the 2021 Bucs game.

Quote:

I have watched this defensive scheme over and over, multiple times from multiple angles ever since Patrick Graham was hired. While I know they are an “amoeba” front (one that often changes shape/alignment), I am having a hard time truly understanding what their plan is. Yes, I know the response is they “change it week to week and base it on matchups.” I think this is part of the big picture problem though. There is no identity, they are putting guys in spots they don’t belong, and it makes building depth very difficult. I am putting daily work into the 2022 Draft reports and stacks now and there just isn’t a flow to where NYG needs to infuse new talent. Whatever they’re doing or trying to do isn’t working and I don’t see long-term promise. I think they need to get more rigid with a 3-4 or 4-3 and build from there.
RE: RE: nice write up Bitey, but a couple of questions for you:  
Victor in CT : 1/23/2023 9:03 am : link
In comment 16007778 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007346 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


how does Barkley "step up" when he only gets 9 carries?

how does Jones play "hero ball" with a terrible OL (63% of drop backs pressured) AND no top tier WRs? Guys you mentioned usually have at least 1 of those units top tier.



As far as Barkley my point was if you’re looking to extend him and pay him 15mil a year, do you want to do that for a guy who can pushed out of the game plan due to game flow? We have a very interesting decision on him.

As for Jones, when I refer to “Hero Ball” that usually indicates that you aren’t getting help from your supporting cast yet still making things work. Do Allen, Mahomes and Burrow do this every single week? No. Have they laid some eggs? Yes. But buy and large they have the ability to elevate those around them and produce in bad situations. While I think Jones is a capable starting QB, we can’t count on him to be someone to win in bad situations, he needs a strong supporting cast.


I'm not trying to be a wise ass, but it sounds like you are blaming Barkley for the offensive staff not finding a way to get their only real weapon involved. WTF was Kafka doing?

As for part 2, using Mahomes as the example, SOMEBODY has to be there to catch the ball otherwise he can run around all day and it won't matter. Who on the Giants compares to Kelce and co? Wher are they when plays break down? GIve the Giants credit for making useful players of Hodgins, Slayton and James, but none of are guys the D really needs to account for, though I think Hodgins is a keeper.
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