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Extending Jones Most Import Decision Since Drafting Eli?

christian : 1/22/2023 10:06 am
True or false?
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ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:09 am : link
Schoen is going to extend Jones, 3 or 4 years, likely anywhere between 30-40M. Team will continue to keep building through the draft and adding value adds in FA. Team is relatively healthy with draft capital and cap space.

They won 10 games including a playoff game and just aren’t there yet. Extending Jones is imperative to keep this moving in the right direction.
RE: …  
christian : 1/22/2023 10:10 am : link
In comment 16007363 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Schoen is going to extend Jones, 3 or 4 years, likely anywhere between 30-40M. Team will continue to keep building through the draft and adding value adds in FA. Team is relatively healthy with draft capital and cap space.

They won 10 games including a playoff game and just aren’t there yet. Extending Jones is imperative to keep this moving in the right direction.


Cool, so no actual opinion on the topic of the thread?
 
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:13 am : link
Umm…as far as importance I wouldn’t say so. They’ve already got him on the team and it’s clear he’s the QB IMO. It’s more important to get the draft and free agency right.
It's a big one  
Blueworm : 1/22/2023 10:13 am : link
Thing is, how can the team improve parts around a $30M man?

That hampered the latter part of Eli's career.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:15 am : link
Eli played pretty well from 2012-2017. Reese was just downright bad at getting the right OL and players around him. They went to the playoffs one time during that span.
He will be resigned  
Vanzetti : 1/22/2023 10:17 am : link
After yesterday's performance I don't think Giants have to worry about a bidding war for his services.

He will get a team friendly contract that allows Giants to dump him if he regresses in future years.

I would be surprised if they let him go or another team offered him big money
False  
Giantimistic : 1/22/2023 10:17 am : link
The actual drafting of Jones was the most important player dedication since drafting Eli. Organizationally it was our new GM and coach.
The answer is yes  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 10:17 am : link
And games like last night are why I give pause to any numbers over 2 years and higher than the franchise tag.
He cant beat the Eagles OR the Cowboys  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/22/2023 10:18 am : link
wtf are we really doing here? This guy shrivels against two of our biggest division rivals!
 
christian : 1/22/2023 10:19 am : link
The Giants have never given a contract over 100M, let alone 100M in guarantees. Based on that alone makes it the biggest financial decision the team has ever made.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/22/2023 10:19 am : link
True.
True.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/22/2023 10:20 am : link
Btw christian, such an abhsmal ending to our most hated rival. But that’s why they’re currently 15-3..Still, going from 4 to 10 wins ith a great new staff who did wonders with no money is nothing short of stupendous..

It will be nice to see Schoen finally get the chance to start from “scratch” so to speak and with money to work with..

My PRIORITY as a fan? Get game-changing linebackers, arguably our biggest present needs..

Sorry to miller here.
Abysmal  
Big Blue '56 : 1/22/2023 10:21 am : link
.
 
christian : 1/22/2023 10:21 am : link
And if they get it wrong, it’s obviously a franchise wrecking move. If they get it right it’s a franchise defining move. Huge stakes and huge dollars — I vote true.
RE: He cant beat the Eagles OR the Cowboys  
Giantimistic : 1/22/2023 10:22 am : link
In comment 16007392 ArcadeSlumlord said:
Quote:
wtf are we really doing here? This guy shrivels against two of our biggest division rivals!


Last I checked he wasn’t playing those teams by himself, coaching or signing the players he is playing with.
RE: The answer is yes  
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:22 am : link
In comment 16007389 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
And games like last night are why I give pause to any numbers over 2 years and higher than the franchise tag.

No offense man but no general manager in the NFL watches that game last night and says yeah it’s on the QB. He made a bad throw on the pick. That’s on Jones. But the team was very overmatched. When a QB is pressured on nearly 70% of dropbacks, you aren’t going to have a good performance. He didn’t play well obviously. Doesn’t change the fact that almost nobody can perform at a high level when nobody is open and you have no time to throw.

And no, this isn’t “making an excuse” for Jones and “oh it’s never on Jones then?” It’s just reality of the situation. They are going to pay him for 3-4 seasons. Getting destroyed by the eagles who are the best team in football and top 3 in offense and defense is not going to change Schoen’s opinion of Daniel Jones.
It obviously all comes down to $$$  
PatersonPlank : 1/22/2023 10:24 am : link
He agent will be on hte phone with Carolina, the crappy Jets, and others who will pay for a young, mobile, playoff QB. I'm not paying him if he wants top 5 QB money. If its reasonable, which I would put in the $30M-35M range in todays market, then ok. Alsoo the other side is does DJ want to be here any more? Free markets go both ways. Maybe Carolina is able to pay him less because he wants to go home
RE: It's a big one  
joe48 : 1/22/2023 10:25 am : link
In comment 16007373 Blueworm said:
Quote:
Thing is, how can the team improve parts around a $30M man?

That hampered the latter part of Eli's career.

Start drafting better which is why we are so talent poor.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:26 am : link
We made a ton of excuses for Eli throughout the year for having a horrific OL and receivers coming up short in big games. Engram making game changing drops, etc.

Last nights game was a team disaster. Doesn’t change the fact that Jones is an ascending player with Daboll, second year of the offense with some better players, he should be playing more like colts and Vikings.

But he’s going to have some poor outings. And the team is going to have bad games. Goal is to get some better fucking talent so that we can compete against the very best in the NFC, two of which unfortunately are in our division right now.
ryan  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 10:27 am : link
He was part of the problem on the pick. I warned of the Eagles having two weeks to prepare for the quick passing game last week and that was part of it as well.

The last component was our WR's were also starting to get more credit as good players. They were solid against the right matchup. Against a better D team and without a good running game they showed vulnerability.

This is where a elite WR can help to solve that along with a better 2 and solid 3 in those tough situations. Some of our WR's may fill the 2 or 3 role or even 4th option. The staff has to figure that out.
I’m going to change your question a bit.  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/22/2023 10:29 am : link

The decision on whether to extend Jones or not is going to be the most important decision since drafting Eli. It’s a huge decision and one that I don’t know if they do or not. I think Schoen will have a number in place, that he feels Jones is worth.

If Jones doesn’t agree to that number, I think they let him walk. Spotrac has Jones market value at 25M. 3 years, 76 million. I think the Giants start there.

I think if Jones agents try and get him in that top 10, 40M range, i truly believe the Giants let him walk.
True  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 10:29 am : link
But dependent on options as a whole and on the plan in either direction. I don’t believe in Jones as a long term franchise guy especially once his wheels slow down, but there’s no immediate alternative with giving a short term guarantee next couple years and monitoring draft options for future franchise guy. I’m fine with getting his roster better and moving on with an aggressive move for a young QB in another 2-3-4 years. There’s some real intriguing options coming out of college in coming years.

Yes I think it is  
Sean : 1/22/2023 10:30 am : link
But this is not an all or nothing situation. The Giants can’t bid against themselves. Are we sure Jones is going to have a big market or will teams look at him as a product of Daboll?

Greg from LI got pounded for bringing up the Vikings defense last week. Mike White & Mac Jones also had huge passing games against the Vikings. Greg looks to be right.
I bolded that because it’s an important point in assessing his value.

The Giants can sign Jones as long as they can easily get out of the contract once a better option comes along. I think that’s the most likely scenario. Jones is back, but not with a contract that makes him the clear cut franchise guy for the next 5 seasons.

What did Daboll say after the Vikings game? “Jones played good.” I expect both sides to play hard ball.

Lastly, are we sure Jones even wants to be back?
RE: ryan  
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:30 am : link
In comment 16007426 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
He was part of the problem on the pick. I warned of the Eagles having two weeks to prepare for the quick passing game last week and that was part of it as well.

The last component was our WR's were also starting to get more credit as good players. They were solid against the right matchup. Against a better D team and without a good running game they showed vulnerability.

This is where an elite WR can help to solve that along with a better 2 and solid 3 in those tough situations. Some of our WR's may fill the 2 or 3 role or even 4th option. The staff has to figure that out.

Pick was on Jones. But again, picks happen. Guy isn’t going to be able to play close to perfect football in every game, which he did against Colts and Vikes. The key is being able to play like that for 11-12 games in a 17 game season, which I believe he certainly can with Schoen and Daboll leading the way.
What if he doesn't want to come back?  
larryflower37 : 1/22/2023 10:30 am : link
Maybe go back home to Carolina.
Everyone thinks this is in the Giants corner to decide I think Jones might just walk and go play elsewhere.
MLB, IOL, WR, and CB  
bLiTz 2k : 1/22/2023 10:31 am : link
are all lacking quality talent. (In no particular order).

Even with DL/LW back I'd add rotation DT to that list too.

It's amazing what they did with the injuries they had. This year was fun, even if it ended miserably.

They have a lot of juggling to do with the resources they have - this is when we will see what Schoen is made of with his first full offseason ahead of him.

No doubt Jones will need to beat the Eagles and Cowboys  
George from PA : 1/22/2023 10:32 am : link
To show, signing him was a good idea.


Let's give Schoen and Daboll a year to clear cap, a 2nd year to build team....before we are mandating they beat the best teams in the NFC.
RE: RE: The answer is yes  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 10:32 am : link
In comment 16007405 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 16007389 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


And games like last night are why I give pause to any numbers over 2 years and higher than the franchise tag.


No offense man but no general manager in the NFL watches that game last night and says yeah it’s on the QB. He made a bad throw on the pick. That’s on Jones. But the team was very overmatched. When a QB is pressured on nearly 70% of dropbacks, you aren’t going to have a good performance. He didn’t play well obviously. Doesn’t change the fact that almost nobody can perform at a high level when nobody is open and you have no time to throw.

And no, this isn’t “making an excuse” for Jones and “oh it’s never on Jones then?” It’s just reality of the situation. They are going to pay him for 3-4 seasons. Getting destroyed by the eagles who are the best team in football and top 3 in offense and defense is not going to change Schoen’s opinion of Daniel Jones.


And no GM is ignoring the previous three years, and using mostly a stretch against the Vikings and Colts to hand a QB $40 million.

Yes nobody was good for the Giants yesterday. That includes Jones though. Yes he was under pressure often, but there were more miscues than just the pick. The play to Slayton that should have been PI was under thrown. There were other off target throws. Running out of bounds on 2nd and 1 for a 5 yard loss. There were maybe two players that we’re good last night and they were both running backs
RE: What if he doesn't want to come back?  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 10:35 am : link
In comment 16007437 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Maybe go back home to Carolina.
Everyone thinks this is in the Giants corner to decide I think Jones might just walk and go play elsewhere.


Hey. That’s perfectly fine and within his right and opens up a lot of creative paths for Giants to explore
 
christian : 1/22/2023 10:35 am : link
Ryan Tannehill signed a 4/118M (29 AAV) contract with 62M guaranteed that covered 2020-2023.

Cap adjusted 4/140M (35AAV) with 70M guaranteed, that covered 2023-2026 — it would be huge discount comparatively. If Jones signs that type of extension he’s conceding he’s a mid pack QB.
I don’t agree that resigning Jones is on that level  
cosmicj : 1/22/2023 10:36 am : link
If we overpay him, we trade him 2 years from now and take the cap hit from the unamortized bonus. No one wants that to happen, but it’s not franchise altering.
RE: …  
BigBlueShock : 1/22/2023 10:37 am : link
In comment 16007363 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Schoen is going to extend Jones, 3 or 4 years, likely anywhere between 30-40M. Team will continue to keep building through the draft and adding value adds in FA. Team is relatively healthy with draft capital and cap space.

They won 10 games including a playoff game and just aren’t there yet. Extending Jones is imperative to keep this moving in the right direction.

I don’t think it is anywhere in the stratosphere of being the slam dunk you are thinking. Hell, Jones’ own comments should give you some pause before declaring this as an absolute. There is a chance that you are completely kind sided by their decision. But you shouldn’t be.

Also, I will bet any amount of money you want that if they do sign him, it’s not for $40M. No fucking chance. Get that number out of your head right now
 
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:37 am : link
And for what it’s worth (probably nothing) Eli went 10-21 against Eagles and 13-17 against Dallas for his career. And Eli was easily the better quarterback than what those teams had during that span.

The bigger factor during his career were that Dallas and Philly simply had better rosters, always, on average throughout those seasons. We have always lost to them for nearly 20 years now. Schoen has to help turn that around and it includes every position, not just Jones.
No  
10thAve : 1/22/2023 10:37 am : link
The most important decision since drafting Eli was bringing Coughlin back after the 2006 season.

This Jones decision is very important as well but not at that heightened level.
The most important decision is first  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 10:38 am : link
making a acknowledgement that the Giants still have a LOS issue. After that the most important decision becomes very clear.

Then you can move on to Jones.

If there was someone in the draft that you thought was a special QB like EA did for Eli and you are also in position or can get into position like EA had then this topic could have more merit imv.



BigBlue  
ryanmkeane : 1/22/2023 10:38 am : link
Jones has class - he’s not going to discuss his career and contract minutes after the team got smoked and ended their season. That’s all that was.
RE: No  
10thAve : 1/22/2023 10:38 am : link
In comment 16007460 10thAve said:
Quote:
The most important decision since drafting Eli was bringing Coughlin back after the 2006 season.

This Jones decision is very important as well but not at that heightened level.

I should read the OP better, so my answer is False, not No. but my reasoning stands.
RE: What if he doesn't want to come back?  
riceneggs : 1/22/2023 10:39 am : link
In comment 16007437 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Maybe go back home to Carolina.
Everyone thinks this is in the Giants corner to decide I think Jones might just walk and go play elsewhere.


If I'm DJs team, I'm strongly considering Carolina.
Cheaper to live here in Charlotte than NY/NJ. Family and friends can come to games. Better chance at winning the division with the Saints, Falcons and Bucs all being in shambles
I say yes to a reasonable contract  
JFIB : 1/22/2023 10:39 am : link
We were all impressed with his performance against Minny. If we improve the O-line and get him 2 receivers who can get open and catch the ball then I think we’ll see results more like we did for the Vikings and Colts.
 
christian : 1/22/2023 10:40 am : link
If Jones is a lock and a cornerstone for the future, why will he sign a contract that’s equivalent to what a mid tier guy signed 4 off seasons ago?
RE: RE: What if he doesn't want to come back?  
Sean : 1/22/2023 10:40 am : link
In comment 16007468 riceneggs said:
Quote:
In comment 16007437 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


Maybe go back home to Carolina.
Everyone thinks this is in the Giants corner to decide I think Jones might just walk and go play elsewhere.



If I'm DJs team, I'm strongly considering Carolina.
Cheaper to live here in Charlotte than NY/NJ. Family and friends can come to games. Better chance at winning the division with the Saints, Falcons and Bucs all being in shambles

And much less pressure.
LoS  
cosmicj : 1/22/2023 10:40 am : link
I’m in your corner. The front 7 needs added talent. I suspect the Interior OL can be upgraded on the cheap, with certain young players improving, but the DL and line backing corps needs big time talent added. The weakness of the WR corps shouldn’t distract us from this.
RE: Yes I think it is  
Gruber : 1/22/2023 10:40 am : link
In comment 16007435 Sean said:
Quote:
But this is not an all or nothing situation. The Giants can’t bid against themselves. Are we sure Jones is going to have a big market or will teams look at him as a product of Daboll?

Greg from LI got pounded for bringing up the Vikings defense last week. Mike White & Mac Jones also had huge passing games against the Vikings. Greg looks to be right.
I bolded that because it’s an important point in assessing his value.

The Giants can sign Jones as long as they can easily get out of the contract once a better option comes along. I think that’s the most likely scenario. Jones is back, but not with a contract that makes him the clear cut franchise guy for the next 5 seasons.

What did Daboll say after the Vikings game? “Jones played good.” I expect both sides to play hard ball.

Lastly, are we sure Jones even wants to be back?


I still have Jones as a middling quarterback who has shown improvement. But last week you had to keep your head down, as the reaction on here to his very good game against the Vikings's poor defense was as if he's the best quarterback in the league.
Here's the rub: Schoen and Daboll are here to build a team that can win the Superbowl, not just achieve a good regular season record. The latter you can attain by beating up on weaker teams in the league and going 50-50 against the better ones. But to be a proper contender in the postseason, you need much more, and that includes from your quarterback.
If they re-sign Jones, then okay, I trust Schoen's judgment, but I would also be interested to see them drafting a quarterback mid-round if they think they see one with a high ceiling.
RE: The most important decision is first  
christian : 1/22/2023 10:44 am : link
In comment 16007463 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
making a acknowledgement that the Giants still have a LOS issue. After that the most important decision becomes very clear.


What’s this acknowledgment you want them to make? Do you want Schoen to go on mic and say the lines suck?

His actions have shown he gets the lines needed investments. He spent 2 top 10 picks on them last year. He drafted 3 offensive lineman, the only substantive free agent contract he gave out was to a guard.

Honestly, what is the literal thing you want him to do?
RE: LoS  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 10:45 am : link
In comment 16007472 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I’m in your corner. The front 7 needs added talent. I suspect the Interior OL can be upgraded on the cheap, with certain young players improving, but the DL and line backing corps needs big time talent added. The weakness of the WR corps shouldn’t distract us from this.


I trust that Parcells will be placing a call to Schoen shortly. "I told you this division packs a wallop at the scrimmage lines. Yours need fixing. Then you modernize."
RE: Yes I think it is  
bw in dc : 1/22/2023 10:45 am : link
In comment 16007435 Sean said:
Quote:

Greg from LI got pounded for bringing up the Vikings defense last week. Mike White & Mac Jones also had huge passing games against the Vikings. Greg looks to be right.
I bolded that because it’s an important point in assessing his value.


Uh, this was discussed after the FIRST Minnesota game. The second game was just an extension of the that.

Jones threw for 230 yards or more 3X this year: two against the dreadful Vikings and the other against the other pass defense sieve - the Lions.
I think extending...  
bw in dc : 1/22/2023 10:47 am : link
Jones is NOT the most important decision since drafting Eli.

It's the most important decision since we drafted Jones.
both true and false  
fkap : 1/22/2023 10:53 am : link
and unable to assess.

all at the same time.

True, because extending may limit your ability to move on IF another, better, prospect is within reach. Extending may limit your ability to get within reach (DJ good enough to win enough to hurt the draft position).

False, because they can punt the decision and tag him, retaining him for another year.

Unable to assess from our seats, because we don't know if a moderate bridge contract (it won't be a cheap bridge) which allows wiggle room in a year or two is an option. Plus, we don't know if the coaches are really agonizing over the decision the way we are. They might be sold, or they might be dead set against.
both true and false  
fkap : 1/22/2023 10:53 am : link
and unable to assess.

all at the same time.

True, because extending may limit your ability to move on IF another, better, prospect is within reach. Extending may limit your ability to get within reach (DJ good enough to win enough to hurt the draft position).

False, because they can punt the decision and tag him, retaining him for another year.

Unable to assess from our seats, because we don't know if a moderate bridge contract (it won't be a cheap bridge) which allows wiggle room in a year or two is an option. Plus, we don't know if the coaches are really agonizing over the decision the way we are. They might be sold, or they might be dead set against.
RE: RE: The most important decision is first  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 10:55 am : link
In comment 16007484 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16007463 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


making a acknowledgement that the Giants still have a LOS issue. After that the most important decision becomes very clear.



What’s this acknowledgment you want them to make? Do you want Schoen to go on mic and say the lines suck?

His actions have shown he gets the lines needed investments. He spent 2 top 10 picks on them last year. He drafted 3 offensive lineman, the only substantive free agent contract he gave out was to a guard.

Honestly, what is the literal thing you want him to do?


I want him to make a honest evaluation of all players on the OL/front 7. Then make a decision based on facts and not on emotions or hope.

Example; if Neal has very real concerns as a RT then make the hard decision to bring in good competition. I'm not suggesting Neal can't play here. Just that JS has to make the hard decision if it needs to be made.

Do this across your OL and front 7. Acknowledge even if you think you have a solution or invested a high asset to acquire a existing player. Don't hide from the truth or bet on hope.

Otherwise we will be in the same position again imv.
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