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Extending Jones Most Import Decision Since Drafting Eli?

christian : 1/22/2023 10:06 am
True or false?
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RE: RE: LoS  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 10:56 am : link
In comment 16007489 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 16007472 cosmicj said:


Quote:


I’m in your corner. The front 7 needs added talent. I suspect the Interior OL can be upgraded on the cheap, with certain young players improving, but the DL and line backing corps needs big time talent added. The weakness of the WR corps shouldn’t distract us from this.



I trust that Parcells will be placing a call to Schoen shortly. "I told you this division packs a wallop at the scrimmage lines. Yours need fixing. Then you modernize."


I’ll bet eleven billion dollars that isn’t happening.
RE: I think extending...  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 10:56 am : link
In comment 16007496 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Jones is NOT the most important decision since drafting Eli.

It's the most important decision since we drafted Jones.


Touché.
They’re not going to waste resources  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 10:59 am : link
Bringing in good RT competition this offseason. They spent a top 10 pick on RT last year, Neal is the right tackle next year. There’s too many other holes to fill and they’ve put a lot of resources into the line in recent years. They’ll look to improve at center or one of the guard spots but they’ll spend most of the resources on the DL, LB and skill positions. Look at how much faster the Eagles looked than the Giants.
Would suggest putting in this current regime of Schoen/Daboll  
chick310 : 1/22/2023 11:02 am : link
is the most important decision in years.

To extend DJ mutli-years, one year or not at all is way the hell up there though.



I am also in the false  
section125 : 1/22/2023 11:05 am : link
column. Hiring Daboll and Schoen was the most important decision since drafting Eli because they will need to decide if Jones is worth the money to re-sign. If they deem him the future, he will get paid. The next question is length and guaranteed money.
RE: They’re not going to waste resources  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 11:07 am : link
In comment 16007531 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Bringing in good RT competition this offseason. They spent a top 10 pick on RT last year, Neal is the right tackle next year. There’s too many other holes to fill and they’ve put a lot of resources into the line in recent years. They’ll look to improve at center or one of the guard spots but they’ll spend most of the resources on the DL, LB and skill positions. Look at how much faster the Eagles looked than the Giants.


If they feel he will make a big jump that is fine. If they have some very real concerns it would be malpractice not to bring in better competition. All I would want is a honest evaluation. I am not saying Neal cant be good here which I said above. The staff works with him everyday. I just see gamedays. I like the player a lot as a individual and hope it works out.
Honestly after last night....  
Jacobs #27 : 1/22/2023 11:11 am : link
if we can't sign Jones to a team friendly deal I'd much rather just tag him and see what he can do next year. Much less risk than handing him a 4 year/$35M per deal.
 
christian : 1/22/2023 11:11 am : link
In comment 16007518 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Do this across your OL and front 7. Acknowledge even if you think you have a solution or invested a high asset to acquire a existing player. Don't hide from the truth or bet on hope.


Those are just words. What is it you want him to literally do?

The franchise tender window is February
Absolutes aside...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/22/2023 11:11 am : link
...2022 was a fun ride.
The Giants found a QB (an important decision to be sure, but an easy call).

Meaningful football after October, November, December.
 
christian : 1/22/2023 11:12 am : link
21st - March 7th.

Do you want him to go on TV and say the line sucks, before he decides what to do with Daniel Jones?
RE: What if he doesn't want to come back?  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/22/2023 11:13 am : link
In comment 16007437 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Maybe go back home to Carolina.
Everyone thinks this is in the Giants corner to decide I think Jones might just walk and go play elsewhere.

The Giants have the tag if necessary. DJ doesn't have full autonomy in the decision even if he would otherwise have a robust market as a free agent.
RE: RE: They’re not going to waste resources  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 11:17 am : link
In comment 16007558 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 16007531 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Bringing in good RT competition this offseason. They spent a top 10 pick on RT last year, Neal is the right tackle next year. There’s too many other holes to fill and they’ve put a lot of resources into the line in recent years. They’ll look to improve at center or one of the guard spots but they’ll spend most of the resources on the DL, LB and skill positions. Look at how much faster the Eagles looked than the Giants.



If they feel he will make a big jump that is fine. If they have some very real concerns it would be malpractice not to bring in better competition. All I would want is a honest evaluation. I am not saying Neal cant be good here which I said above. The staff works with him everyday. I just see gamedays. I like the player a lot as a individual and hope it works out.


But you can’t have 100 players and $500 million salary cap. With the holes this team has at C, MLB, DE, CB, WR, DT depth it would be a beyond a poor allocation of resources to bring in RT competition. They have the oline depth, they just need one starter added on the interior and hope guys like Ezedu can take a jump up.
Not even close  
HomerJones45 : 1/22/2023 11:17 am : link
What to do with Barkley is a more important decision.
RE: …  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 11:19 am : link
In comment 16007580 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16007518 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


Do this across your OL and front 7. Acknowledge even if you think you have a solution or invested a high asset to acquire a existing player. Don't hide from the truth or bet on hope.



Those are just words. What is it you want him to literally do?

The franchise tender window is February



I said the same thing for months. Negotiate and find a deal that you can get out of in 2-3 years. If it gets outside that by very much I tag him and revaluate when he receives offers.

Not sure what is just words. It simple leadership acknowledging truth and having the self awareness and courage to act on it whatever that truth is.
The collective set of decisions this year in the aggregate...  
The Mike : 1/22/2023 11:23 am : link
...makes this off-season among the most important in franchise history.

Get them right, and perhaps our trajectory will be similar to where we were in 1985. Get them wrong, and perhaps it will be similar to 1994.
RE: I am also in the false  
bw in dc : 1/22/2023 11:24 am : link
In comment 16007551 section125 said:
Quote:
column. Hiring Daboll and Schoen was the most important decision since drafting Eli because they will need to decide if Jones is worth the money to re-sign. If they deem him the future, he will get paid. The next question is length and guaranteed money.


Jones didn't help himself last night with that 11+ QBR. I was hoping he could parlay last week's performance into something much better than last night. Yes, Philly is a better D, but we needed more from our QB last night in a bigger spot.
RE: Absolutes aside...  
HomerJones45 : 1/22/2023 11:26 am : link
In comment 16007581 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...2022 was a fun ride.
The Giants found a QB (an important decision to be sure, but an easy call).

Meaningful football after October, November, December.
During which they went what? 4-6-1?
RE: RE: Absolutes aside...  
PatersonPlank : 1/22/2023 11:29 am : link
In comment 16007628 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007581 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...2022 was a fun ride.
The Giants found a QB (an important decision to be sure, but an easy call).

Meaningful football after October, November, December.

During which they went what? 4-6-1?


It was still a good year. Just because we aren't "there yet" doesn't mean it wasn't a good year, or that we aren't improving. Teams get better, they just don't go from winning 4 games to winning the SB
Danny Dime Giants future contract  
New Yorker : 1/22/2023 11:29 am : link
I would sign Danny for 4 years at 25 per for 100 Million .I'm not going to 30 or 35 or 40 not happening. It would be rough to let him walk but I hold my ground. Saquon I would wait till draft to see if Robinson drops to us.If not I would do a deal that I could move if I had too if we are signing him.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 1/22/2023 11:30 am : link
In comment 16007612 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I said the same thing for months. Negotiate and find a deal that you can get out of in 2-3 years. If it gets outside that by very much I tag him and revaluate when he receives offers.

Not sure what is just words. It simple leadership acknowledging truth and having the self awareness and courage to act on it whatever that truth is.


You said the “the most important decisions become clear” after this magical acknowledgment.

So what you’re saying is Schoen needs to internally acknowledge the lines need work, only then can he pursue a new contract with Jones?

What if Schoen decides he likes the players on his roster right now and doesn’t want to change them?
RE: …  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/22/2023 11:30 am : link
In comment 16007459 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
And for what it’s worth (probably nothing) Eli went 10-21 against Eagles and 13-17 against Dallas for his career. And Eli was easily the better quarterback than what those teams had during that span.

The bigger factor during his career were that Dallas and Philly simply had better rosters, always, on average throughout those seasons. We have always lost to them for nearly 20 years now. Schoen has to help turn that around and it includes every position, not just Jones.

For the love of God, can you please stop making shit up?

If the Giants have always lost to Dallas and Philly for the past 20 years, can you explain how we were 20-19 against them between 2003-2012? That's the first half of the past 20 years. It also includes 2003, the dumpster fire that led to Eli in the first place, and the Giants went 0-4 against Dallas and Philly that year. They were 20-15 against Dallas and Philadelphia from 2004-2012.

Are you even capable of using actual facts? Or is everything just make believe for you?
RE: RE: LoS  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/22/2023 11:33 am : link
In comment 16007489 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 16007472 cosmicj said:


Quote:


I’m in your corner. The front 7 needs added talent. I suspect the Interior OL can be upgraded on the cheap, with certain young players improving, but the DL and line backing corps needs big time talent added. The weakness of the WR corps shouldn’t distract us from this.



I trust that Parcells will be placing a call to Schoen shortly. "I told you this division packs a wallop at the scrimmage lines. Yours need fixing. Then you modernize."

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah, that's what's going to happen. Schoen is going to get a fictional follow-up call to a previously fictional phone call.
I'll answer  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 11:35 am : link
2003-12 look at the fronts. 2013-22 look at them now and compare to those two teams during this time.

About the simplest question to answer and I have been stating the cause of the destruction since I joined the board.

But good question to ask to make the point.....again.
False.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/22/2023 11:36 am : link
Jones will probably get a 3-4 year deal, presumably with an escape hatch after year two, which wouldn't be that big of a deal.
RE: RE: RE: The answer is yes  
santacruzom : 1/22/2023 11:37 am : link
In comment 16007445 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007405 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 16007389 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


And games like last night are why I give pause to any numbers over 2 years and higher than the franchise tag.


No offense man but no general manager in the NFL watches that game last night and says yeah it’s on the QB. He made a bad throw on the pick. That’s on Jones. But the team was very overmatched. When a QB is pressured on nearly 70% of dropbacks, you aren’t going to have a good performance. He didn’t play well obviously. Doesn’t change the fact that almost nobody can perform at a high level when nobody is open and you have no time to throw.

And no, this isn’t “making an excuse” for Jones and “oh it’s never on Jones then?” It’s just reality of the situation. They are going to pay him for 3-4 seasons. Getting destroyed by the eagles who are the best team in football and top 3 in offense and defense is not going to change Schoen’s opinion of Daniel Jones.



And no GM is ignoring the previous three years, and using mostly a stretch against the Vikings and Colts to hand a QB $40 million.


Some GMs might but I think overall you're right. There have been several QBs who've had a few excellent games and show a few very good traits from time to time, but never became consistent enough to justify a massive salary. I can see GMs reasonably wondering if Jones is yet another.
You can just nonstop pour top resources into the line every year.  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 11:37 am : link
Sometimes you need to let things develop. Just look at the Eagles line.

Kelce was a 6th round pick, Dickerson could barely stay on the field at FSU and is now a pro bowler. Mailata was a 7th round pick who came from the international pathways program. Seumalo was a third round pick. They haven’t put a first round pick into the oline since Johnson a decade ago.
RE: I'll answer  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/22/2023 11:38 am : link
In comment 16007644 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
2003-12 look at the fronts. 2013-22 look at them now and compare to those two teams during this time.

About the simplest question to answer and I have been stating the cause of the destruction since I joined the board.

But good question to ask to make the point.....again.

Stick to your fictional phone calls, the great destruction, and a mystical offseason of clarity once a grand admission about the lines is finally declared.
 
christian : 1/22/2023 11:43 am : link
So in normal human words is your answer to the question:

False, signing Jones isn’t the most important decision. Whether to continue to invest in offensive line and front seven on defense is more important. — ?
RE: RE: RE: LoS  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 11:45 am : link
In comment 16007642 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16007489 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


In comment 16007472 cosmicj said:


Quote:


I’m in your corner. The front 7 needs added talent. I suspect the Interior OL can be upgraded on the cheap, with certain young players improving, but the DL and line backing corps needs big time talent added. The weakness of the WR corps shouldn’t distract us from this.



I trust that Parcells will be placing a call to Schoen shortly. "I told you this division packs a wallop at the scrimmage lines. Yours need fixing. Then you modernize."


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah, that's what's going to happen. Schoen is going to get a fictional follow-up call to a previously fictional phone call.


Go back and read the transcript after Schoen's press conference. Then you will understand the "modernize" and the Parcells call I joked about. Details my friend.

Great question about 2003-'12 above.....and reinforcement my point. Good job.

Bill Parcells is going to call Schoen's office today and tell him to  
chick310 : 1/22/2023 11:46 am : link
get the roster improved across the lines of scrimmage?

Haha. When does Parcell also break it to Joe that Daboll should have run the ball 30 times last night...next week's call?

Improving the interior OL and front 7  
dpinzow : 1/22/2023 11:47 am : link
is more important. That's where the gulf in class was
chick  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 11:49 am : link
You remind me of NYGgolfer who reminded me of Googs. But your a college football player so no connection but none the less striking similarities. Haven't seen those two around in a bit. Glad you backfilled for them.
RE: Improving the interior OL and front 7  
christian : 1/22/2023 11:49 am : link
In comment 16007677 dpinzow said:
Quote:
is more important. That's where the gulf in class was


That’s a very defensible position. I imagine you think Philly has done well. What do you think about letting the offensive group develop and build chemistry like Philly did?
RE: chick  
chick310 : 1/22/2023 11:51 am : link
In comment 16007683 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
You remind me of NYGgolfer who reminded me of Googs. But your a college football player so no connection but none the less striking similarities. Haven't seen those two around in a bit. Glad you backfilled for them.


No, I think I am more like Bill Parcells and I want to remind Schoen to build up the OL/DL.
RE: Improving the interior OL and front 7  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 11:52 am : link
In comment 16007677 dpinzow said:
Quote:
is more important. That's where the gulf in class was


Bingo and it starts with acknowledgement and then following the truth for actions that need or don't need to happen.
RE: Bill Parcells is going to call Schoen's office today and tell him to  
christian : 1/22/2023 11:52 am : link
In comment 16007672 chick310 said:
Quote:
get the roster improved across the lines of scrimmage?

Haha. When does Parcell also break it to Joe that Daboll should have run the ball 30 times last night...next week's call?


No, no. George Young will call from the grave to avail that wisdom.
RE: RE: Absolutes aside...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/22/2023 11:55 am : link
In comment 16007628 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 16007581 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...2022 was a fun ride.
The Giants found a QB (an important decision to be sure, but an easy call).

Meaningful football after October, November, December.

During which they went what? 4-6-1?
Exactly!

RE: RE: Improving the interior OL and front 7  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/22/2023 11:56 am : link
In comment 16007696 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 16007677 dpinzow said:


Quote:


is more important. That's where the gulf in class was



Bingo and it starts with acknowledgement and then following the truth for actions that need or don't need to happen.

What's the acknowledge look like to you? How will we know that the acknowledgement has happened so we can track the subsequent following of the truth?
RE: RE: …  
DefenseWins : 1/22/2023 11:57 am : link
In comment 16007364 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16007363 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Schoen is going to extend Jones, 3 or 4 years, likely anywhere between 30-40M. Team will continue to keep building through the draft and adding value adds in FA. Team is relatively healthy with draft capital and cap space.

They won 10 games including a playoff game and just aren’t there yet. Extending Jones is imperative to keep this moving in the right direction.



Cool, so no actual opinion on the topic of the thread?


Bringing in this GM and Coach was the most important decision since drafting Eli.
I’d say acknowledgement  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 11:58 am : link
Is spending two top 10 picks on the oline in 3 years.
RE: chick  
Brown_Hornet : 1/22/2023 11:58 am : link
In comment 16007683 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
You remind me of NYGgolfer who reminded me of Googs. But your a college football player so no connection but none the less striking similarities. Haven't seen those two around in a bit. Glad you backfilled for them.
LoS, chick is Googs dupe.

RE: Improving the interior OL and front 7  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 11:59 am : link
In comment 16007677 dpinzow said:
Quote:
is more important. That's where the gulf in class was


This is overly simplistic. It was just as much in playmakers. They had two solid CBs, pass rushers up and down first and second levels on defense, and two Pro Bowl caliber WRs and RB depth three deep.
Neal will be fine...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/22/2023 12:00 pm : link
...the Giants will take a WR or CB on day one.
RE: You can just nonstop pour top resources into the line every year.  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 12:02 pm : link
In comment 16007651 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Sometimes you need to let things develop. Just look at the Eagles line.

Kelce was a 6th round pick, Dickerson could barely stay on the field at FSU and is now a pro bowler. Mailata was a 7th round pick who came from the international pathways program. Seumalo was a third round pick. They haven’t put a first round pick into the oline since Johnson a decade ago.


Bingo.
RE: I’d say acknowledgement  
christian : 1/22/2023 12:11 pm : link
In comment 16007709 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Is spending two top 10 picks on the oline in 3 years.


Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good myth.

The high water mark for the Coughlin era line consisted of a 5th round pick LT, UDFA at LG, converted guard at center on a cheap contract, a 2nd round pick at RG, and one high priced free agent at right tackle.

Not mention Accorsi spent 2 top 60 picks on linemen his entire tenure as GM.
RE: RE: I am also in the false  
section125 : 1/22/2023 12:17 pm : link
In comment 16007625 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16007551 section125 said:


Quote:


column. Hiring Daboll and Schoen was the most important decision since drafting Eli because they will need to decide if Jones is worth the money to re-sign. If they deem him the future, he will get paid. The next question is length and guaranteed money.



Jones didn't help himself last night with that 11+ QBR. I was hoping he could parlay last week's performance into something much better than last night. Yes, Philly is a better D, but we needed more from our QB last night in a bigger spot.


Agree, he did not help himself at all - but that is more about years and gtd money. Bad outing.

I think we needed more out of the HC, DC and OC, too(last night only). That was some smelly mess on both sides of the ball
RE: RE: chick  
chick310 : 1/22/2023 12:17 pm : link
In comment 16007710 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 16007683 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


You remind me of NYGgolfer who reminded me of Googs. But your a college football player so no connection but none the less striking similarities. Haven't seen those two around in a bit. Glad you backfilled for them.

LoS, chick is Googs dupe.


Right. And let me guess, you're Inspector Clouseau?
RE: RE: I’d say acknowledgement  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 12:20 pm : link
In comment 16007746 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16007709 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Is spending two top 10 picks on the oline in 3 years.



Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good myth.

The high water mark for the Coughlin era line consisted of a 5th round pick LT, UDFA at LG, converted guard at center on a cheap contract, a 2nd round pick at RG, and one high priced free agent at right tackle.

Not mention Accorsi spent 2 top 60 picks on linemen his entire tenure as GM.


The Eagles drafted a first round LT a few years ago who did not work out. They then replaced him with the LT that now is in the Pro Bowler.

Dickerson is not a underperformer from FSU. He was a top OL on a Bama team who won a NC.

His OL coach also came from Bama and Chip Kelly hired him where he still is today.

They drafted a center last year in round 2 to replace Kelce.

They plan ahead and move on when things are not right with a player.

They understand the critical importance of the OL and set a standard. Not hope for one.

This is what JS needs to do imv. Act on the truth. Not where someone was drafted. Hopefully the truth is the evaluation is correct. If not then have the courage to act on it.

Oh TC fixed the OL. Arcossi was not a line of scrimmage guy. TC was hired so Ravens/Giants would not happen. It didn't. Nice GM but he needed a strong HC to tell the truth.
RE: Neal will be fine...  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/22/2023 12:25 pm : link
In comment 16007714 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...the Giants will take a WR or CB on day one.


This certainly a strong possibility and those positional groups are also big weak spots on the team.

RE: RE: I’d say acknowledgement  
chick310 : 1/22/2023 12:25 pm : link
In comment 16007746 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16007709 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Is spending two top 10 picks on the oline in 3 years.



Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good myth.

The high water mark for the Coughlin era line consisted of a 5th round pick LT, UDFA at LG, converted guard at center on a cheap contract, a 2nd round pick at RG, and one high priced free agent at right tackle.

Not mention Accorsi spent 2 top 60 picks on linemen his entire tenure as GM.


Still a lot to do on Offense and Defense.

Interior OL could use more investment and doesn't always have to be Day 1&2 picks. Our rookie class was decimated with injuries and Neal will most certainly develop more in Yr 2.

Hopefully Schoen keeps churning the roster and doesn't get caught up in thinking there are that many core players here and he needs to open up checkbook for everybody.
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