GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
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55m
#Giants Neal - this experience has been great to learn from...wants to get better in pass pro and in run game....was a bit of a challenge flipping to RT but dealt with it...looking forward to being locked in at RT for a 2nd year
#Giants Neal - learned a lot about resiliemcy and how to focus thru some tough times...extremely encouraged and excited about the future...will take a few weeks to relax
@PLeonardNYDN
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2m
Giants guard Josh Ezeudu (neck) tells me he’s getting better each day and he expects to be ready for training camp
WR Wan’Dale Robinson (right ACL) says he will be ready for Week 1 of next season. Won’t divulge markers in between. Clean tear, surgery, rehab in progress
@DDuggan21
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2m
Leonard Williams said he’d consider a pay cut. His agent will not, as he’s proven repeatedly in negotiations with the Giants.
A short-term extension to lower his cap is probably the best avenue unless the Giants just want to move on, which would leave a big hole in a thin DL.
@DDuggan21
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6m
Saquon was very realistic about his contract desires. He said he’s not focused on resetting the RB market. He knows the injuries knocked him off that pace.
@rydunleavy
Good chance for #Giants fans to learn how the cap works.
Forget $25M/year for Daniel Jones. Any offer like that will get laughed at. A franchise tag is $32M. He'd just take that instead.
@DDuggan21
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6m
Early sense: An extension with Saquon will be easier than Jones. So they’ll want to get something done with Saquon early so they have the tag available for Jones
Jones, I am certain has a little bit of resentment not getting the 5th year option and certain his agent told him to say nothing. QB is most important position and he and his agent know that there will be teams looking for his services if the Giants do not meet what they want - yes there is the tag which is $10 mill more than his 5th year option. I think realistically he is at least Kirk Cousins capable, but a touch better. I will stick with my view he is an 8-12 top QB range.
Leo Williams, may be willing to go a little under to stay where he is happy. He made his big $$ already and a follow up contract for 2 or 3 years may be all he wants. These guys see what happens if you stay too long and if he has small kids may not want to move them.
I hope they can re-sign Love. He had a bad game last night(in the 1 qtr I saw), but $6-$8 mill range will not break the bank and he can play multiple rolls.
@DDuggan21
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3m
I heard the Giants’ offer during the bye week was in the Nick Chubb range ($12M/year). Christian McCaffrey tops the market ($16M/year). Seems like there’s a sweet spot there that can be worked out.
for practical purposes mccaffrey's deal paid him 13.7m per year for 3 seasons in a panther uni.
his cap #'s were:
2020 7.8m
2021 6.9m
2022 8.1m
2023 18.3m dead $
that totals 41.1m on their cap over 4 years for 2.5 years of service (and the draft picks at the deadline).
the dead money hit in 2023 was mostly a function of the fact that they'd restructured the deal and punted money into the future with it artificially low in those first 3 years.
I’d expect him to be on PUP, and activated later in the year.
they cant count on it either way. i hope he is but coming back off ACLs late season for skill guys is tough.
We do not know how bad it was. The Giants are very conservative. We also do not know if it was one of those injuries where treatments were believed to be the correct course of action, until it got worse - look at Leo Williams.
I am not calling him a bust. I love his attitude, he is the anti flowers. And tools are there. But he was disappointing for a multi yr bama guy. I just expected more. Totally rooting for him to make some improvements. He sounds like the type of guy who will put 8n the work.
@DDuggan21
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4m
Right. But my point is that Williams’ comment, which he admittedly hadn’t given much thought to and later semi-retracted, doesn’t carry much weight. I don’t think there’s any chance he takes a straight pay cut
Jones, I am certain has a little bit of resentment not getting the 5th year option and certain his agent told him to say nothing. QB is most important position and he and his agent know that there will be teams looking for his services if the Giants do not meet what they want - yes there is the tag which is $10 mill more than his 5th year option. I think realistically he is at least Kirk Cousins capable, but a touch better. I will stick with my view he is an 8-12 top QB range.
Leo Williams, may be willing to go a little under to stay where he is happy. He made his big $$ already and a follow up contract for 2 or 3 years may be all he wants. These guys see what happens if you stay too long and if he has small kids may not want to move them.
I hope they can re-sign Love. He had a bad game last night(in the 1 qtr I saw), but $6-$8 mill range will not break the bank and he can play multiple rolls.
Jones better not get carried away. Enjoyed how he played this yr but I am not crippling the franchise for a crazy contract. Has to work on both sides. If panthers( hometown Carolina guy) want him and give us their top 10 pick, I would have to at least consider it
@DDuggan21
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4m
Right. But my point is that Williams’ comment, which he admittedly hadn’t given much thought to and later semi-retracted, doesn’t carry much weight. I don’t think there’s any chance he takes a straight pay cut
that's sort of semantics, straight pay cut would seem unlikely to even be something the nyg would go for because if they like the player enough to keep him, there are more functional ways to save more money against the cap.
his 2023 cap # starts at 14.5m from cash previously paid out and there's no way to lower that, it just grows from there with whatever they pay him in new $ in 2023. even if they brought him down on a straight pay cut from 18m salary in current deal to whatever base he'd get on the open market in a 1 year deal (let's guess way low and say 5-10m) the cap number would still be almost 20m+ per year. functionally they can bring the cap hit lower and also add a year or 2 on at a more reasonable amount if that's what both sides want while giving williams whatever the fmv guaranteed amount is that he'd get as a UFA right now.
he's due 18m next year but it's all non-guaranteed so that's what he has to risk because he's not going to get an 18m salary in FA.
there is an obvious middle ground for both sides if the nyg want it to add on a year or two and spread out the new money to a more manageable number while bringing his cap number down by 10m or more. or they can just move on and save the full 18m off this year's cap.
@DDuggan21
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4m
Right. But my point is that Williams’ comment, which he admittedly hadn’t given much thought to and later semi-retracted, doesn’t carry much weight. I don’t think there’s any chance he takes a straight pay cut
I am going to propose that LW was saying he would be willing to re-sign/extend for a bit less than the current $18 mill per he is getting, not that he would take less than the $18 mill he is due. Convert some to a bonus with a two or three year extension to drop the cap hit this year and spread it over an additional 2 or 3 years.
2023 is $18 mill base, $14.3 bonus with $5.9 in 2024.
@rydunleavy
Good chance for #Giants fans to learn how the cap works.
Forget $25M/year for Daniel Jones. Any offer like that will get laughed at. A franchise tag is $32M. He'd just take that instead.
Really, the market will dictate the price. If the Giants offer $25 AAV and no one is offering anything more or better, guess what he is getting. For all the love and affection of Giants fans, I am not certain the League sees him as anything more than a Mariota type. We shall see.
Again well liked and good but I don’t see him getting better at this point and where will he be at the end of the ‘24 season? And we want to sign him to a deal 1-2 years even past that??
Spend $12mm/yr on a LB CB or WR and draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. And I’m a guy that celebrated the #2 pick. Not a good business move going forward IMO.
After Philly avg 6ypc on 45 carries would you rather have a $12 million linebacker and a third round running back or a $12 million running back and a third round linebacker?
All this cap space is going to go fast with all the holes we have.
Quote:
that the Giants let Ezeudu play with an existing neck injury.
He never should have been active that game. He didn't start because of it, but then played. They've had a weird year with injuries. Some they handled really well, especially in navigating newer IR rules. Others. like Ezeudu, they handled poorly.
Yup. And we're not talking about a hamstring here, but a neck injury.
2) Interesting Jones said the rumors they were close are false. It's still early, but his comments don't sound very promising.
3) Re: Williams - It is very rare for a player to take a straight paycut. The CBA doesn't really allow it. It is usually an extension, with less salary but an increase to guaranteed money, which can amortized over the extended contract. Player loses little to no money other than paper salary. It is more accounting than anything.,
@art_stapleton
Giants WR Wan'Dale Robinson told me his ACL surgery was his first surgery of any kind.
Plans on staying in NJ and continuing to rehab with Darrian Beavers and Sterling Shepard, all of whom are coming back from ACLs.
Robinson says next step is strengthening knee. Week 1 is goal.
@Connor_J_Hughes
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2h
Leonard Williams says he’d “consider” taking a pay cut to remain with the #Giants because “I want to play with Dex (Lawrence) as long as possible.”
Admits that’s something he hasn’t really thought about yet, though — needs to talk with his agent
@Connor_J_Hughes
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2h
Love said the two sides started off far apart (normal), but they got a lot closer during the bye. Doesn’t guarantee he’ll return, but does sound optimistic a deal gets done. Just a little more bridging needed.
@Connor_J_Hughes
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2h
Evan Neal says constantly changing positions, dating back to college, has been a challenge. He’s looking forward to locking in to right tackle. #Giants
Jones better not get carried away. Enjoyed how he played this yr but I am not crippling the franchise for a crazy contract. Has to work on both sides. If panthers( hometown Carolina guy) want him and give us their top 10 pick, I would have to at least consider it
Yeah, I am sure that is how all QB contract negotiations work...He is not a total FA because they can tag him to keep him, but he has once chance for that payday he has been working for. I doubt he goes bottom dollar and no way that the Giants go top dollar.
@art_stapleton
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2m
Giants WR Isaiah Hodgins told me he's hopeful the team will bring him back as ERFA, which would seem to be a lock. There's also the possibility NYG and Hodgins can agree on a longer term deal, and he told me he'd love for that to happen. Wants to be here.
Again well liked and good but I don’t see him getting better at this point and where will he be at the end of the ‘24 season? And we want to sign him to a deal 1-2 years even past that??
Spend $12mm/yr on a LB CB or WR and draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. And I’m a guy that celebrated the #2 pick. Not a good business move going forward IMO.
After Philly avg 6ypc on 45 carries would you rather have a $12 million linebacker and a third round running back or a $12 million running back and a third round linebacker?
All this cap space is going to go fast with all the holes we have.
I may be in the minority here, but I don’t think you can discount the value being a real vocal leader brings. You ask what is the difference between Barkley, a top back for a team who’s offensive strength is the run game, versus a second or third round back… I truly believe the leadership and influence he carries in the locker room, something we aren’t privy to, has a lot more value than we understand. I also disagree that he has “clearly lost a step”. I think the Vikings game proved he can still be a highly efficient star player. The money does have to absolutely make sense, but IF Saquon is willing to be realistic, I think you try to make it work. He is absolutely a guy you want on the field and in the locker room, and I think that why Daboll and Schoen would rather have him around.
Again well liked and good but I don’t see him getting better at this point and where will he be at the end of the ‘24 season? And we want to sign him to a deal 1-2 years even past that??
Spend $12mm/yr on a LB CB or WR and draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. And I’m a guy that celebrated the #2 pick. Not a good business move going forward IMO.
After Philly avg 6ypc on 45 carries would you rather have a $12 million linebacker and a third round running back or a $12 million running back and a third round linebacker?
All this cap space is going to go fast with all the holes we have.
Not spending $12 mill on one LB - not happening. A very good CB, maybe, but they will likely go draft route for CB and ILB. Not seeing any 1st tier FAs being signed this year. Too many core players to be taken care of 1st.
Doubt it. Leo walked it back.
IThey can franchise him - they don’t have to sign him
@rydunleavy
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7m
This is very noteworthy. As I’ve reported all along, Saquon is not looking for $17 million/year. Fair market value for a top RB with increases in Salween cap. Sides were closer than you think during #Giants bye
I suspect that Saquon sees NYC to be a good place to start his post-football career. His career with the Giants could help him.
Quote:
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
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7m
This is very noteworthy. As I’ve reported all along, Saquon is not looking for $17 million/year. Fair market value for a top RB with increases in Salween cap. Sides were closer than you think during #Giants bye
I suspect that Saquon sees NYC to be a good place to start his post-football career. His career with the Giants could help him.
Success on the Giants, in NY, will be more valuable long term then almost any other city. A few million will be made up and surpassed.
Michael Strahan is one of the best people to have around the Giants as a reminder.
We witnessed so many players really developed this year under this staff, which makes me confident that no matter who stays or goes, this staff will significantly develop players, especially when they continue to draft or sign new players. I would like to see Jones stay, but only at the right price. If they trade Jones and let others walk like Love, I’m ok with that as I would like to see this staff draft and develop their players, especially those hand picked by this team.
Again, I’m no expert. I believe this coaching staff can set us up for long term success. I do t want to see us sell out for one year, let’s build a dynasty. The future is bright boys!
Quote:
that the Giants let Ezeudu play with an existing neck injury.
We do not know how bad it was. The Giants are very conservative. We also do not know if it was one of those injuries where treatments were believed to be the correct course of action, until it got worse - look at Leo Williams.
Also, and this is a huge factor, the guy didn’t even have surgery. Dumbfounded seems a little over the top but that’s me. We’ve seen far worse or more egregious behavior from NFL teams on player health. Not to mention how mysterious or fluid and unpredictable the back and neck injury prognosis can truly be. We’re not talking about black and white concussion symptoms or (barely) torn ligaments.
Quote:
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Good chance for #Giants fans to learn how the cap works.
Forget $25M/year for Daniel Jones. Any offer like that will get laughed at. A franchise tag is $32M. He'd just take that instead.
Or the Giants may just let him go. If they have Barkley, they have several options from among the free agent qb's. Get ready for the warring press leaks.
Really, the market will dictate the price. If the Giants offer $25 AAV and no one is offering anything more or better, guess what he is getting. For all the love and affection of Giants fans, I am not certain the League sees him as anything more than a Mariota type. We shall see.
You’re 100% completely wrong, respectfully.
His replacement is sitting in the next draft.
Again well liked and good but I don’t see him getting better at this point and where will he be at the end of the ‘24 season? And we want to sign him to a deal 1-2 years even past that??
Spend $12mm/yr on a LB CB or WR and draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. And I’m a guy that celebrated the #2 pick. Not a good business move going forward IMO.
After Philly avg 6ypc on 45 carries would you rather have a $12 million linebacker and a third round running back or a $12 million running back and a third round linebacker?
All this cap space is going to go fast with all the holes we have.
Cmon already. What’s the difference between a second round pick and Barkley? How about everything. The former is top 5 NFL RB. The latter could be a top 10 RB right away, most likely won’t be, more likely will be a good player.
Wtf am I missing with some of you? Average at best OL. Average at best wrs. Rookie TE. Every DC worth his weight went into every game against Nyg trying to stop Barkley first, Jones second. The single biggest reason this offense was decent was a dead heat between bark and jones.
You want to dump the guy and draft a rb, fine, but don’t tell me you’re gonna replace Barkley just like that, with a second round pick. I want that in writing. You’re drafting the next thurmon Thomas or tiki barber? Or the next Joe Montgomery / butch wollfolk.
Again, why are we so fucking nervous about paying a pro bowl RB literally HALF what good wrs get paid? Think about the bang for your buck you get by paying a Barkley or Chubb or CMC. You’re getting an identity! And who the hell said Barkley is all of sudden slowing down? We’re buying this now? Why? Based on what??? He’s got 1000 rushes. He can’t get to 1800???
So you let Barkley go. Who you paying that money to? The free agent wide receiver suck. So we’re drafting a running back and overpaying a receiver in free agency. Rather than pay one of our own guys here who works harder than anyone, produces in big games and is now three years removed from injury. Entering his prime. Don’t tell me he’s slowing down, I just watched him play at a pro bowl level THIS season. Bollocks.
Jones will be franchised for $32 and will be an unhappy camper.