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The non-exclusive tag for Jones

Producer : 1/22/2023 3:52 pm
In short, if the Giants use this tag, Jones can negotiate with another team and the Giants can match the deal or receive 2 first rounders from the new team.

Does anybody think Carolina or NYJ or Washington, for example, will ink a huge deal with Jones AND surrender two firsts? I think it's unlikely.

But if they do, don't you like getting two firsts for Jones? Or we can match.

Seems the way to go.
As a last resort, maybe  
BlackLight : 1/22/2023 3:56 pm : link
But a multi-year helps you maintain cap flexibility.
Except if he really  
Dave on the UWS : 1/22/2023 3:56 pm : link
DOESNT want to play on a tag, that’s no the best way to go at QB. Just ask Washington who did it with Cousins TWICE- how’d that work out?
Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
giantBCP : 1/22/2023 3:59 pm : link
Davante Adams went for a 1st and a 2nd. AJ Brown went for a 1st and a 3rd. Tyreek Hill went for a 1st, a 2nd, 2 4ths, and a 6th. If a you think that a QB wouldn’t garner that, I think you’d be wrong.
I understand and agree with what you guys are saying  
Producer : 1/22/2023 4:02 pm : link
But if he opts to negotiate with another team then it gives some clarity as to Jones' market value and we can always supercede the tag with a new deal, after this process plays out, to mitigate cap hit.
Giants need to petition the NFL to play the Vikings 17 times  
GMen72 : 1/22/2023 4:02 pm : link
or maybe mix in a few games with the Lions. Playing the 2 worst passing defenses (or a checked out Colts D) over and over is the only way to make DJ look like a real franchise QB.
RE: Except if he really  
Sammo85 : 1/22/2023 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16008360 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
DOESNT want to play on a tag, that’s no the best way to go at QB. Just ask Washington who did it with Cousins TWICE- how’d that work out?


Huh? What is Jones leverage? Is he just going to retire?
Zero chance a team is giving up  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/22/2023 4:03 pm : link

2 first rounders for Jones. Zero. Using the non-exclusive tag means that Jones’ salary under the tag would be less than the exclusive tag. I’m sure that’s appealing.
Jones  
Ron Johnson : 1/22/2023 4:04 pm : link
Is getting a contract. Give it up already.
RE: RE: Except if he really  
Producer : 1/22/2023 4:06 pm : link
In comment 16008378 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16008360 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


DOESNT want to play on a tag, that’s no the best way to go at QB. Just ask Washington who did it with Cousins TWICE- how’d that work out?



Huh? What is Jones leverage? Is he just going to retire?


He doesn't have leverage per se, but nobody wants the QB to feel betrayed. That's the reason he brought up Cousins. There was a lot of bad feeling there. But we can always tag and then sign.
RE: Zero chance a team is giving up  
Producer : 1/22/2023 4:13 pm : link
In comment 16008380 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:

2 first rounders for Jones. Zero. Using the non-exclusive tag means that Jones’ salary under the tag would be less than the exclusive tag. I’m sure that’s appealing.



My thoughts too.
If Daniel Jones was in this draft  
90.Cal : 1/22/2023 4:14 pm : link
He'd easily be a top 10 pick. I can see a team like Washington and Carolina going after him even if we tag him, it would be a smart move for them IMO. But IMO the smart move for us is to try to get him on a long term deal for money that is cheap relative to what Dak got and what Herbert is about to get before even considering anyone's offers.

4 years: $120M; w/$90M guaranteed type of range

Dak got 4 years $160M
Herbert might get 4 years $200M

I think Daniel Jones wants to be here but I have zero reason to think he's taking a discount. He might get Dak's deal or better if he hits the open market and his agent knows it.
RE: Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
chick310 : 1/22/2023 4:14 pm : link
In comment 16008366 giantBCP said:
Quote:
Davante Adams went for a 1st and a 2nd. AJ Brown went for a 1st and a 3rd. Tyreek Hill went for a 1st, a 2nd, 2 4ths, and a 6th. If a you think that a QB wouldn’t garner that, I think you’d be wrong.


Some QBs would. But not this one.
After last night..  
The Mike : 1/22/2023 4:17 pm : link
... I agree that this is the most likely outcome. DJ's camp is going to expect a Kyler Murray type contract. The Giants will never go there. And I don't think there is a number that reconciles the two sides. So at the final hour, they will land at the non-exclusive tag. If a team wants to give us two first round picks, we wish DJ well and move on.
RE: Except if he really  
k2tampa : 1/22/2023 4:22 pm : link
In comment 16008360 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
DOESNT want to play on a tag, that’s no the best way to go at QB. Just ask Washington who did it with Cousins TWICE- how’d that work out?


Yeah, but if someone gives you 2 firsts you can get a replacement. And you can still work out a multiyear deal before the season.
RE: Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
bw in dc : 1/22/2023 4:22 pm : link
In comment 16008366 giantBCP said:
Quote:
Davante Adams went for a 1st and a 2nd. AJ Brown went for a 1st and a 3rd. Tyreek Hill went for a 1st, a 2nd, 2 4ths, and a 6th. If a you think that a QB wouldn’t garner that, I think you’d be wrong.


Two things. One, those are established superstar WRs. But two, you have to comp to another QB, not a WR.

Jones isn't a superstar QB. I can see a team asking for a first - tops.
I agree that this is the smart path forward  
arniefez : 1/22/2023 4:23 pm : link
Based on Jones brief comments yesterday I don’t think the Giants will have any choice. I hope Schoen and Daboll have a number they won’t cross for Jones and that number is reasonable enough that it doesn’t handcuff their cap and the rest of the Giants roster
RE: If Daniel Jones was in this draft  
GMen72 : 1/22/2023 4:41 pm : link
In comment 16008428 90.Cal said:
Quote:
He'd easily be a top 10 pick. I can see a team like Washington and Carolina going after him even if we tag him, it would be a smart move for them IMO. But IMO the smart move for us is to try to get him on a long term deal for money that is cheap relative to what Dak got and what Herbert is about to get before even considering anyone's offers.

4 years: $120M; w/$90M guaranteed type of range

Dak got 4 years $160M
Herbert might get 4 years $200M

I think Daniel Jones wants to be here but I have zero reason to think he's taking a discount. He might get Dak's deal or better if he hits the open market and his agent knows it.


DJ would be the 4th rated QB in this draft, at best, and most likely would be outside the top 10. Levis is going 9th in most mocks and the Eagles, picking 10th, aren't drafting a QB.

This is a MUCH better QB class than when DJ came out.

Had
I like DJ and said before Satuday's game  
mfjmfj : 1/22/2023 4:47 pm : link
that even if he threw an absolute stinker it would not change the analysis. DJ did not look good yesterday. Neither would any other QB. Unless you got JC or maybe Clark Kent to take an unexpected interest in football, the Giants weren't winning.

I think we probably end up tagging him. Hopefully, a deal gets done, but I am not overly optimistic. Tag him, let him negotiate. If someone wants to give him a big deal we don't want to match, take the picks and go home. Sign Derek Carr or Jimmy G, if you think you can make a move now. Or go big and go after Lamar.

And he does have huge leverage in the FT process if he wants. Just refuse to play. Come in after week 9, get your year of service and the team is royally screwed.
RE: RE: If Daniel Jones was in this draft  
knowledgetimmons : 1/22/2023 4:56 pm : link
In comment 16008494 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 16008428 90.Cal said:


Quote:


He'd easily be a top 10 pick. I can see a team like Washington and Carolina going after him even if we tag him, it would be a smart move for them IMO. But IMO the smart move for us is to try to get him on a long term deal for money that is cheap relative to what Dak got and what Herbert is about to get before even considering anyone's offers.

4 years: $120M; w/$90M guaranteed type of range

Dak got 4 years $160M
Herbert might get 4 years $200M

I think Daniel Jones wants to be here but I have zero reason to think he's taking a discount. He might get Dak's deal or better if he hits the open market and his agent knows it.



DJ would be the 4th rated QB in this draft, at best, and most likely would be outside the top 10. Levis is going 9th in most mocks and the Eagles, picking 10th, aren't drafting a QB.

This is a MUCH better QB class than when DJ came out.

Had


Lay offf…tha WEEEEEEED
RE: RE: Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
giantBCP : 1/22/2023 5:00 pm : link
In comment 16008457 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16008366 giantBCP said:


Quote:


Davante Adams went for a 1st and a 2nd. AJ Brown went for a 1st and a 3rd. Tyreek Hill went for a 1st, a 2nd, 2 4ths, and a 6th. If a you think that a QB wouldn’t garner that, I think you’d be wrong.



Two things. One, those are established superstar WRs. But two, you have to comp to another QB, not a WR.

Jones isn't a superstar QB. I can see a team asking for a first - tops.


Wentz went for a 1st and 3rd. Darnold went for a 2nd, a 4th, and a 6th. I’m confident that we’d get two first rounders for Jones if he gets the non-exclusive FT.
Jones out of college would not be a top 10 pick  
ajr2456 : 1/22/2023 5:00 pm : link
In this draft.
RE: Jones out of college would not be a top 10 pick  
giantBCP : 1/22/2023 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16008532 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In this draft.


That’s speculation, but even if it was fact, it would be completely irrelevant.
RE: Jones out of college would not be a top 10 pick  
section125 : 1/22/2023 5:03 pm : link
In comment 16008532 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In this draft.


I think he would be. It would be close.
Jones  
Joe Beckwith : 1/22/2023 5:28 pm : link
at 5/$175 and $120 guaranteed gives him $40 a year for 3 years guaranteed and a $35 average over 5 , since $24&’25 is rumored to ratchet the cap up by 20% over the 22 cap, and 2nd or 3rd level QBs will be earning $40( and Hurts, e.g. comes due in ‘25).
It gives JS and Co. 2/3 years to find a QB if they felt they were wrong on DJ).
RE: RE: RE: Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
bw in dc : 1/22/2023 5:38 pm : link
In comment 16008531 giantBCP said:
Quote:


Wentz went for a 1st and 3rd. Darnold went for a 2nd, a 4th, and a 6th. I’m confident that we’d get two first rounders for Jones if he gets the non-exclusive FT.


Wentz was third in the MVP voting and had three years of 60+ QBR performances.

Jones is not securing two firsts. If so, we should make that deal ASAP.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
section125 : 1/22/2023 5:42 pm : link
In comment 16008630 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16008531 giantBCP said:


Quote:




Wentz went for a 1st and 3rd. Darnold went for a 2nd, a 4th, and a 6th. I’m confident that we’d get two first rounders for Jones if he gets the non-exclusive FT.



Wentz was third in the MVP voting and had three years of 60+ QBR performances.

Jones is not securing two firsts. If so, we should make that deal ASAP.


If someone is offering two 1st for Jones, then that means someone thinks he is a franchise QB. I would be close to taking it if they could be guaranteed to get a top 3 pick via trades.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Recent WR deals have netted close to 2 first rounders  
bw in dc : 1/22/2023 5:48 pm : link
In comment 16008633 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16008630 bw in dc said:


Wentz was third in the MVP voting and had three years of 60+ QBR performances.

Jones is not securing two firsts. If so, we should make that deal ASAP.



If someone is offering two 1st for Jones, then that means someone thinks he is a franchise QB. I would be close to taking it if they could be guaranteed to get a top 3 pick via trades.


Let's game it out. Let's say the Indy wants Jones and give us their 4th pick this year and their first next year.

You might be able to stay at #4 to get Stroud. Would you take that?

Our would you trade that #4 and the #25 to move up to #1 to get Bryce Young?

Me? I would take Stroud at #4.
RE: I understand and agree with what you guys are saying  
BillKo : 1/22/2023 5:48 pm : link
In comment 16008374 Producer said:
Quote:
But if he opts to negotiate with another team then it gives some clarity as to Jones' market value and we can always supercede the tag with a new deal, after this process plays out, to mitigate cap hit.


Definitely agree but if they can work out a deal before then that works for both sides, they'll go that route.

Giants still hold all the cards.
How do the Giants hold the cards??  
MeanBunny : 1/22/2023 5:57 pm : link
They have to flesh out the entire team. We are back to 2 years ago if Jones and Barkley.get massive contracts. Schoen needs the to beg them to give us the hometown discount so we can get other good players. Tom Brady sent a precident for this.
RE: How do the Giants hold the cards??  
BlackLight : 1/22/2023 6:01 pm : link
In comment 16008705 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
They have to flesh out the entire team. We are back to 2 years ago if Jones and Barkley.get massive contracts. Schoen needs the to beg them to give us the hometown discount so we can get other good players. Tom Brady sent a precident for this.


Yes, but so far as as anyone can tell, Eli never left a penny on the table when it came to his contract negotiations. Nobody ever faulted him for that, so why should DJ be amenable to it?
RE: How do the Giants hold the cards??  
Producer : 1/22/2023 6:06 pm : link
In comment 16008705 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
They have to flesh out the entire team. We are back to 2 years ago if Jones and Barkley.get massive contracts. Schoen needs the to beg them to give us the hometown discount so we can get other good players. Tom Brady sent a precident for this.


Forget it. You're not getting a discount. This may be the only chance Daniel Jones gets at life-altering money. They will lobby and leverage for every last cent.
Jones is an ascending player in the prime of his life  
JerseyCityJoe : 1/22/2023 6:17 pm : link
The Giants are going to pay for that. We the Giant fans are going to benefit.
RE: How do the Giants hold the cards??  
BillKo : 1/22/2023 6:22 pm : link
In comment 16008705 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
They have to flesh out the entire team. We are back to 2 years ago if Jones and Barkley.get massive contracts. Schoen needs the to beg them to give us the hometown discount so we can get other good players. Tom Brady sent a precident for this.


Because they aren't true free agents.

There are tags.
RE: Jones is an ascending player in the prime of his life  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/22/2023 6:25 pm : link
In comment 16008783 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
The Giants are going to pay for that. We the Giant fans are going to benefit.


+1 we haven’t even seen the best of DJ yet in my view.
Producer  
Archer : 1/22/2023 6:28 pm : link
Very creative you are still looking for ways to get rid of Jones.

You are praying that the Giants tag Jones and that another team signs him with a poison pill.

LOL
I don't think anyone will give up first picks for Jones  
bcinsd : 1/22/2023 6:39 pm : link
...and I don't think the Giants give him a big-time deal either. So probably just tag him and kick the can down the road.
RE: RE: RE: Except if he really  
DefenseWins : 1/22/2023 6:39 pm : link
In comment 16008389 Producer said:
Quote:

He doesn't have leverage per se, but nobody wants the QB to feel betrayed. That's the reason he brought up Cousins. There was a lot of bad feeling there. But we can always tag and then sign.


I think Jones has a ton of leverage and I would go so far as to say that he is in the driver's seat.

Think of this as a game of musical chairs where the chairs are QBs and the people playing are NFL teams. Except there are about 5-10 chairs short when it comes to QBs who give a team a legitimate shot at winning.

His agent knows the decision that Schoen and Daboll make will seal their fate. It is easier to sign Jones and continue to work with him, than roll the dice and end up being a 5 win team next season.

I do agree with your approach to trying to find a way to get him cheaper. I am just do not think there is a snowball's chance in getting him for less than $30 million per year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Except if he really  
Producer : 1/22/2023 6:44 pm : link
In comment 16008841 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 16008389 Producer said:


Quote:



He doesn't have leverage per se, but nobody wants the QB to feel betrayed. That's the reason he brought up Cousins. There was a lot of bad feeling there. But we can always tag and then sign.



I think Jones has a ton of leverage and I would go so far as to say that he is in the driver's seat.

Think of this as a game of musical chairs where the chairs are QBs and the people playing are NFL teams. Except there are about 5-10 chairs short when it comes to QBs who give a team a legitimate shot at winning.

His agent knows the decision that Schoen and Daboll make will seal their fate. It is easier to sign Jones and continue to work with him, than roll the dice and end up being a 5 win team next season.

I do agree with your approach to trying to find a way to get him cheaper. I am just do not think there is a snowball's chance in getting him for less than $30 million per year.


How is Jones in the driver's seat when the Giants can just tag him and Jones Team can't do anything about it.
He’d gladly play under a FT  
giantBCP : 1/22/2023 6:50 pm : link
He’s probably angling for it.
RE: He’d gladly play under a FT  
Producer : 1/22/2023 6:52 pm : link
In comment 16008876 giantBCP said:
Quote:
He’s probably angling for it.


I think he'd rather have a multiyear deal with guaranteed money nearing $90M.
What a joke this thread is  
BillT : 1/22/2023 7:22 pm : link
Considering who posted it.
Some of you especially Tim  
uconngiant : 1/22/2023 7:52 pm : link
Should just stop as he is going to be a NY Giant as he should be. There is no one out there in free agency that is good and this draft has a lot of question marks as none of them is Williams from USC or Maye's from UNC
After getting swept by the Cowboys and Eagles his whole career  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/22/2023 9:10 pm : link
give me the two 1st rounders.
4 years $30 million for Jones  
The_Boss : 1/22/2023 10:15 pm : link
Is ridiculous, even if it’s hypothetical. I’d offer 3 for $60 million..if he says NO, so be it. Go with Taylor and draft a kid in 2024.
Just based on his performances  
thrunthrublue : 1/23/2023 12:04 am : link
Against teams with winning records….Take the two first round picks. See what the niners are doing with their low drafted qb…..it’s the system, use the picks to protect our qb and destroy theirs, simple math.
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