to the lines IMO. Our QB was harassed all night while they ran the ball effortlessly. They didn't gave to throw last night if they didn't want to. They could've run the ball 70 times and the score wouldn't have been much different.
With three backups and an injured center. Yes it would be nice to have 5 dominant offensive lineman, but it’s the exception not the rule. The Giants have poured plenty of resources into the line, it’s time to see if they can develop.
The Eagles looked so much faster than the Giants at nearly every skill position.
building up the front lines on both sides of the ball still needs to be the main priority. As much as WR needs an upgrade, a deep threat WR ain't going to help much if they can't pass protect long enough against a front like the Eagles.
and 2 x 1k yard receivers.
and 2 x shut down corners.
but with 11 picks and lots of money to spend those are the 4 areas i'd be focused on pretty intently with an eye towards value for nyg.
phi was able to buy bradberry low off the down year.
reddick and sweat were both acquired at discounts bc of size.
they were aggressive in trades for both smith and ajb the last 2 years and didnt let the reagor failure curb their aggression.
they did well on the OL too but i actually think they are a bit lucky to have johnson and kelce still playing at such a high level after such long careers. that's just uncommon fortune. brandon graham too for that matter. imagine jpp was still here putting up a career high sack season?
With three backups and an injured center. Yes it would be nice to have 5 dominant offensive lineman, but it’s the exception not the rule. The Giants have poured plenty of resources into the line, it’s time to see if they can develop.
The Eagles looked so much faster than the Giants at nearly every skill position.
CIN has the 2nd best QB in football and the slippery track helped them a ton.
Get Payne and edmunds. Might cost 22 and 15 but Ide rather get 2 studs in areas of need than a bunch of middle of the road depth pieces. Then we can load up on offense in the draft.
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
So ignore it because they have missed in the past? I have a feeling Schoen, Daboll and Johnson can find OL in the middle of the draft. I think Ezeudu is going to be good. Would love to have seen McKethan and his 340 lbs at some point this season..
Not sure what they think about Gates. It was strange that they rotated Bredesen and he. I suppose getting minutes for both. Is it development or experience or both?
prime picks on them you better get it right. Jury is still out on Schoen with Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan.
Neal the only one a “ prime pick”. Others are late 3 and 5th
Plus I will see who develops first. Ezeudu showed glimpes but holes too
mckethan? Who knows. Think he looked OK in practices
No issue taking a flyer on another OL over first 3rds. Along with the 7 other’s positions we need
With three backups and an injured center. Yes it would be nice to have 5 dominant offensive lineman, but it’s the exception not the rule. The Giants have poured plenty of resources into the line, it’s time to see if they can develop.
The Eagles looked so much faster than the Giants at nearly every skill position.
CIN has the 2nd best QB in football and the slippery track helped them a ton.
CIN has the 2nd best QB in football and the slippery track helped them a ton.
That kind of makes my point though. How much of the Eagles oline being dominant has to do with Hurts, Brown, Smith, Goedert, etc. If Ezedu can be average, Neal improves and they improve the WR corp the line will look a lot better.
against either SF or Dallas's D. The OL won't dominate like they did against us. They will have a lot more trouble running, Hurts will have a lot less time, etc.
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
So ignore it because they have missed in the past? I have a feeling Schoen, Daboll and Johnson can find OL in the middle of the draft. I think Ezeudu is going to be good. Would love to have seen McKethan and his 340 lbs at some point this season..
Not sure what they think about Gates. It was strange that they rotated Bredesen and he. I suppose getting minutes for both. Is it development or experience or both?
roster building is not an exact science like that.
We need a good OL <> use all your best picks on OL. Some have to come from FA, some (and this cannot be stressed enough) have to come from non-premium picks or FA (coach them up).
the Cowboys had significant OL investment for years, and their players panned out, and they didn't win a playoff game.
Miles Sanders and Boston Scott are not all pro backs, but they look pretty good behind that offensive line. Brady got away with sub-par receivers for most of his career. Fix the trenches and maybe grab a defender or two. It's not all going to be fixed in one more offseason.
they come from. You just have to get good OL on you roster.
Loading up on all first round OL presents other potential problems.
What is important is that you know what to scout for and how to develop. Probably as important is moving on and keeping at it and not accepting mediocrity or worse.
Not to takeaway from this OL or the other 3 players on the unit but how much does coaching factor in?
I’ve mentioned this before but I have a connection through family friends to their OL coach Stoutland and I know that through HC coaching changes, Roseman has made it clear in the past that Stoutland was going nowhere. Both McAdoo and Judge were interested in his availability. He oversees their entire rushing attack.
What I’m getting at here is that with modern college and NFL camp/practice schedules you’re going to be short on physical reps and especially with guys coming out of college, are you getting more raw talent that needs to be coached up more than ever. Another reason why I think people are jumping the gun on Neal by the way.
In short, I’m in agreement that we’re not in a position to pass up premium OL talent if it falls in our lap, but we need to be sure we have the right coaching as well. I do think Johnson seems like a solid coach.
Get Payne and edmunds. Might cost 22 and 15 but Ide rather get 2 studs in areas of need than a bunch of middle of the road depth pieces. Then we can load up on offense in the draft.
I have been thinking the same thing imagine Dex and Payne? Wow that would create a lot of opportunities for Blitzers and the Edge players, put the money into the big boys
I have no problem taking OL in the first round as long as it is still best player available. I would add edge as well on the defensive side. But no reaching for need, falling in love with players or trying to outsmart consensus value....
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
This is false in the sense of player personnel or draft capital. They haven’t any more than the Giants have. The problem is Giants missed on several and have had revolving door of front office and coaching staffs last 8 years where evaluations are changed quickly.
Cowboys line is a shell of where it was a few yrs ago. Eagles have done outstanding job of having an OL program built and sustained consistently through 5 coaching staffs. They don’t just shoot darts or drool over talent. They identify, teach, and develop.
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
Tyron Smith has been there since 2011 and Zack Martin since 2014.
They are the equivalent of the Giants hitting on and givng second contracts to Pugh and Flowers.
But as we know they did not work out.
But we didn't so we are at a talent disadvantage there. We go up against the Dallas Philadelphia and Washington fronts 6 times a year. That's easily 3 top 10 fronts.
Get Payne and edmunds. Might cost 22 and 15 but Ide rather get 2 studs in areas of need than a bunch of middle of the road depth pieces. Then we can load up on offense in the draft.
Edmunds seems like a great fit and not bc of the Daboll connection. I think the value is there. Sportrack has him valued at 11 mill per. You could even go a little higher and you'd be getting a lot of production for that price.
I follow the Bama program a bit. Chip Kelly brought in Stoutland and he is one of those guru OL guys.
But Philly also commits to it.
Roseman boasted about how much they commit to the lines this past draft. Said something like "We always commit heavily to our lines". Operative word "always". They drafted Kelce's hopeful replacement last draft. Kelce was involved in the process.
There's your blueprint right there.
The Eagles looked so much faster than the Giants at nearly every skill position.
Neil would benefit from a dominant RG. If I'm JS, I'm signing Dalton Risner to anchor the LG spot.
and 2 x shut down corners.
but with 11 picks and lots of money to spend those are the 4 areas i'd be focused on pretty intently with an eye towards value for nyg.
phi was able to buy bradberry low off the down year.
reddick and sweat were both acquired at discounts bc of size.
they were aggressive in trades for both smith and ajb the last 2 years and didnt let the reagor failure curb their aggression.
they did well on the OL too but i actually think they are a bit lucky to have johnson and kelce still playing at such a high level after such long careers. that's just uncommon fortune. brandon graham too for that matter. imagine jpp was still here putting up a career high sack season?
Eagles had a bunch of guys who’ve been drafted mid to late and they’ve slowly developed them.
Quote:
Neal needs to step up, because he wasn't even a gate last night.
Neil would benefit from a dominant RG. If I'm JS, I'm signing Dalton Risner to anchor the LG spot.
How is that helping Neal?
The Eagles looked so much faster than the Giants at nearly every skill position.
CIN has the 2nd best QB in football and the slippery track helped them a ton.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
Quote:
In comment 16008834 section125 said:
Quote:
Neal needs to step up, because he wasn't even a gate last night.
Neil would benefit from a dominant RG. If I'm JS, I'm signing Dalton Risner to anchor the LG spot.
How is that helping Neal?
It's not. I just really like Risner. 2 different statements. I can see how it was confusing.
not having duds
We have some talent. We need beef.
We have some talent. We need beef.
Hog Molly's? 😏
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
So ignore it because they have missed in the past? I have a feeling Schoen, Daboll and Johnson can find OL in the middle of the draft. I think Ezeudu is going to be good. Would love to have seen McKethan and his 340 lbs at some point this season..
Not sure what they think about Gates. It was strange that they rotated Bredesen and he. I suppose getting minutes for both. Is it development or experience or both?
Landon Dickerson stood out to me, would have loved him in blue.
Neal the only one a “ prime pick”. Others are late 3 and 5th
Plus I will see who develops first. Ezeudu showed glimpes but holes too
mckethan? Who knows. Think he looked OK in practices
No issue taking a flyer on another OL over first 3rds. Along with the 7 other’s positions we need
Quote:
With three backups and an injured center. Yes it would be nice to have 5 dominant offensive lineman, but it’s the exception not the rule. The Giants have poured plenty of resources into the line, it’s time to see if they can develop.
The Eagles looked so much faster than the Giants at nearly every skill position.
CIN has the 2nd best QB in football and the slippery track helped them a ton.
Their OL dominated the Bills.
CIN has the 2nd best QB in football and the slippery track helped them a ton.
That kind of makes my point though. How much of the Eagles oline being dominant has to do with Hurts, Brown, Smith, Goedert, etc. If Ezedu can be average, Neal improves and they improve the WR corp the line will look a lot better.
Quote:
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
So ignore it because they have missed in the past? I have a feeling Schoen, Daboll and Johnson can find OL in the middle of the draft. I think Ezeudu is going to be good. Would love to have seen McKethan and his 340 lbs at some point this season..
Not sure what they think about Gates. It was strange that they rotated Bredesen and he. I suppose getting minutes for both. Is it development or experience or both?
roster building is not an exact science like that.
We need a good OL <> use all your best picks on OL. Some have to come from FA, some (and this cannot be stressed enough) have to come from non-premium picks or FA (coach them up).
the Cowboys had significant OL investment for years, and their players panned out, and they didn't win a playoff game.
You need a balanced roster.
You may be able to get around it in the regular season. If you want a championship around here again order has to be restored imv.
Loading up on all first round OL presents other potential problems.
What is important is that you know what to scout for and how to develop. Probably as important is moving on and keeping at it and not accepting mediocrity or worse.
I’ve mentioned this before but I have a connection through family friends to their OL coach Stoutland and I know that through HC coaching changes, Roseman has made it clear in the past that Stoutland was going nowhere. Both McAdoo and Judge were interested in his availability. He oversees their entire rushing attack.
What I’m getting at here is that with modern college and NFL camp/practice schedules you’re going to be short on physical reps and especially with guys coming out of college, are you getting more raw talent that needs to be coached up more than ever. Another reason why I think people are jumping the gun on Neal by the way.
In short, I’m in agreement that we’re not in a position to pass up premium OL talent if it falls in our lap, but we need to be sure we have the right coaching as well. I do think Johnson seems like a solid coach.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
I have been thinking the same thing imagine Dex and Payne? Wow that would create a lot of opportunities for Blitzers and the Edge players, put the money into the big boys
Quote:
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
The Giants have invested more top resources in the oline than the Eagles
Quote:
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
Tyron Smith has been there since 2011 and Zack Martin since 2014.
They are the equivalent of the Giants hitting on and givng second contracts to Pugh and Flowers.
But as we know they did not work out.
A great offensive line is a defense’s best friend. By far!!!
Quote:
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
This is false in the sense of player personnel or draft capital. They haven’t any more than the Giants have. The problem is Giants missed on several and have had revolving door of front office and coaching staffs last 8 years where evaluations are changed quickly.
Cowboys line is a shell of where it was a few yrs ago. Eagles have done outstanding job of having an OL program built and sustained consistently through 5 coaching staffs. They don’t just shoot darts or drool over talent. They identify, teach, and develop.
Quote:
In comment 16008869 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
wrong that doesn't have to mean using premium draft picks.
Giants have already spent a #4 and #7 overall pick and 2 3rd round picks, just from the current roster on the OL.
At some point you have to get OL contribution from value picks.
The Eagles and Cowboys have invested more in their olines and it shows.
Tyron Smith has been there since 2011 and Zack Martin since 2014.
They are the equivalent of the Giants hitting on and givng second contracts to Pugh and Flowers.
But as we know they did not work out.
But we didn't so we are at a talent disadvantage there. We go up against the Dallas Philadelphia and Washington fronts 6 times a year. That's easily 3 top 10 fronts.
Edmunds seems like a great fit and not bc of the Daboll connection. I think the value is there. Sportrack has him valued at 11 mill per. You could even go a little higher and you'd be getting a lot of production for that price.
But Philly also commits to it.
Roseman boasted about how much they commit to the lines this past draft. Said something like "We always commit heavily to our lines". Operative word "always". They drafted Kelce's hopeful replacement last draft. Kelce was involved in the process.
The priority this off-season needs to be finishing the job on the OL and front 7 on defense.