... that would make the allocation debate fairly straightforward. But there are so many variables involved. In an orderly, predictable universe, Jason Kelce would be long forgotten and Weston Richburg would be the undersized future Hall of Fame center. Jordan Mailata would have remained an amusing curiosity like Roy Mbaeteka. Evan Neal would be on a Lane Johnson trajectory.
If the staff has concluded that Neal, Ezeudu, and Glowinski were mistakes, Schoen will have to start planning to move on. Meanwhile, Bobby Johnson and Co. need to coach those guys up to make them whatever they can be
I can one up this. In an orderly, predictable universe, Snee and Diehl actually last as effective players until 2017 and we've probably just replaced Beatty - and who knows what the rest of the team looks like because Nicks and Cruz never get hurt meaning we maybe draft Donald in 2014 instead of Beckham.
I’d like to see the Giants stop screwing around at center, and draft a college center in the first two days.
^THIS
C is a special position along the line. They have to make the line calls, be able read and adjust more than any other line position. I've long argued that C is the 2nd most important line position.
RE: If finding, 5 impactful OL is easy.....wouldn't everyone do it?
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
What does contending mean? Being a top team or making the playoffs? If it’s the former than they certainly need better talent. But if it’s the latter they are already there, and will likely be better next year.
Given Jones’ improvement this season, expected improvement from rookie OLs next year, plus the draft and free agency, I think that they can be in the mix next year. Can they hang with the Eagles & Cowboys? We’ll see what the team looks like next year.
The fact that they overachieved this season is a positive. Yet sometimes I think people see it as a negative.
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
What does contending mean? Being a top team or making the playoffs? If it’s the former than they certainly need better talent. But if it’s the latter they are already there, and will likely be better next year.
Given Jones’ improvement this season, expected improvement from rookie OLs next year, plus the draft and free agency, I think that they can be in the mix next year. Can they hang with the Eagles & Cowboys? We’ll see what the team looks like next year.
The fact that they overachieved this season is a positive. Yet sometimes I think people see it as a negative.
My personal definition? You're winning your division and finishing as a top-3 seed in the conference.
great. Some of these QB's get to sit in the pocket a long time. OL has so much to do with ball possession and the red zone. I'm with Sy.
It will cost a lot to have 5 dominant OL. Not saying it is a bad idea but how do you pay a #1 WR and have a defense if that much money is allocated to the OL. They could do it on rookie contracts and then let the guys walk as freeagents.
I have gotten a lot of grief once I started expressing concerns about Neal when his preseason trait of “falling down” kept repeating throughout the season. To my eye, it’s a 6’7” super athlete having balance/footwork issues that aren’t being corrected, even slightly, throughout the season. I know rookie OL tend to struggle Year 1, but something is concerning me about Neal. Yes, I know he had a knee injury, but this problem existed well before the MCL injury and there were whispers before the draft he might be top heavy.
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
The good news(in a sense) is that they still need more quality players at several positions then they can draft. So whomever(BPA) is available at #25 is likely an improvement over what is already on the team.
Dave: sounds like you and I could get a pretty good debate going all on our own. I have a somewhat different take. One doesn't want to discount the importance of the IOL and LB but in the end those positions don't win games. And my sense is that with some combination of the young guys they already have on the IOL and maybe a couple mid-range FAs for depth (if #s 76 and 64 don't come back) they'll be good enough upfront. I'd also be tempted to bring in a vet FA OT for depth and competition for Neal especially if he doesn't pick it up. Same story at LB.
But the best teams in the NFL do one of two things: they almost all throw the ball really well or disrupt the other team's pass offense. I really think that the key for the Giants going forward is just how good the DL can be because their is a ton of potential. Think the Giants won ten games this year with Williams, Thibo and Ojulari combining for just 11 sacks when quite literally each has the potential to post that many on their own. As I have said elsewhere I would be sorely tempted to go after someone like USC's Tuipulotu either in the first or by trading up in the 2nd if I went WR in the first. He could play a DE in early downs to give you a whole lot more size upfront and then kick inside on passing downs.
But most importantly give me a couple of good receiving options either however you do it and combined with Jones, Saquon and Bellinger we would have a very competitive offense to boot.
I really believe its going to fun going forward in these next 3-4 years.
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
They don’t need a perfect roster to be a contender.
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
And that 2 years is *if* they make the right personnel decisions in free agency, the draft, and re-signing/extending their own players each year (most of the time).
in the NFL - just my opinion - this is the hardest leap to make (from mediocre to contender - consistent contender), and if you fail to make it you wind up back on the bottom or in NFL team purgatory where you are not good enough to contend but also not bad enough to add the best impact players.
This idea that you need a “perfect” roster around QB
I don’t buy it. All I heard was how awful the Bengals OL was. Don’t they have NYG castoffs? Why can they go from 2-14 in 2019 to what they’ve become so quickly?
offseason plans should be (e.g. current roster FA/ERFA/etc, Free Agent targets, and potential draft targets)?
I know your schedule is incredibly busy, but would love to get your insight on this.
Thanks for all the great work you do!
I lined up a couple things this week. Aiming for game review being out Tuesday, and Jones thoughts Thursday / Friday. Offseason plan in the coming weeks.
Dave: sounds like you and I could get a pretty good debate going all on our own. I have a somewhat different take. One doesn't want to discount the importance of the IOL and LB but in the end those positions don't win games. And my sense is that with some combination of the young guys they already have on the IOL and maybe a couple mid-range FAs for depth (if #s 76 and 64 don't come back) they'll be good enough upfront. I'd also be tempted to bring in a vet FA OT for depth and competition for Neal especially if he doesn't pick it up. Same story at LB.
But the best teams in the NFL do one of two things: they almost all throw the ball really well or disrupt the other team's pass offense. I really think that the key for the Giants going forward is just how good the DL can be because their is a ton of potential. Think the Giants won ten games this year with Williams, Thibo and Ojulari combining for just 11 sacks when quite literally each has the potential to post that many on their own. As I have said elsewhere I would be sorely tempted to go after someone like USC's Tuipulotu either in the first or by trading up in the 2nd if I went WR in the first. He could play a DE in early downs to give you a whole lot more size upfront and then kick inside on passing downs.
But most importantly give me a couple of good receiving options either however you do it and combined with Jones, Saquon and Bellinger we would have a very competitive offense to boot.
I really believe its going to fun going forward in these next 3-4 years.
I have gotten a lot of grief once I started expressing concerns about Neal when his preseason trait of “falling down” kept repeating throughout the season. To my eye, it’s a 6’7” super athlete having balance/footwork issues that aren’t being corrected, even slightly, throughout the season. I know rookie OL tend to struggle Year 1, but something is concerning me about Neal. Yes, I know he had a knee injury, but this problem existed well before the MCL injury and there were whispers before the draft he might be top heavy.
Is it too early to see a potential concern here?
Too early? Yes.
A guy like Neal needs at least 2 years to show progress. And again to repeat myself from last summer -
2023 will be the first time Neal plays the same position 2 years in a row since he was in high school
RE: This idea that you need a “perfect” roster around QB
I don’t buy it. All I heard was how awful the Bengals OL was. Don’t they have NYG castoffs? Why can they go from 2-14 in 2019 to what they’ve become so quickly?
Joe Burrow is one reason. But when you get a coaching staff that can coach, they can take players that people thought were deficient and clean them up. Then they got Ja'mar Chase on top of Tee Higgins...Many of the pieces were there. Just had to be tuned up.
The Eagles were 4-11-1 in 2020. Everyone felt they were tanking going into 2021. Massive dead cap number for Wentz. What happened? How are they now one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL?
Dave: sounds like you and I could get a pretty good debate going all on our own. I have a somewhat different take. One doesn't want to discount the importance of the IOL and LB but in the end those positions don't win games. And my sense is that with some combination of the young guys they already have on the IOL and maybe a couple mid-range FAs for depth (if #s 76 and 64 don't come back) they'll be good enough upfront. I'd also be tempted to bring in a vet FA OT for depth and competition for Neal especially if he doesn't pick it up. Same story at LB.
But the best teams in the NFL do one of two things: they almost all throw the ball really well or disrupt the other team's pass offense. I really think that the key for the Giants going forward is just how good the DL can be because their is a ton of potential. Think the Giants won ten games this year with Williams, Thibo and Ojulari combining for just 11 sacks when quite literally each has the potential to post that many on their own. As I have said elsewhere I would be sorely tempted to go after someone like USC's Tuipulotu either in the first or by trading up in the 2nd if I went WR in the first. He could play a DE in early downs to give you a whole lot more size upfront and then kick inside on passing downs.
But most importantly give me a couple of good receiving options either however you do it and combined with Jones, Saquon and Bellinger we would have a very competitive offense to boot.
I really believe its going to fun going forward in these next 3-4 years.
Colin, unfortunately we are closer to the same page than you think. WR is my top need for NYG. CB is second. Pass rusher is 3rd.
But I bring up OL because if there is the right value, I am going in the direction. I will not overlook OL just because I need a WR more. A team like NYG needs to take value where it is given. My point of that tweet was simple.
If NYG can get an OL like PHI - every player on that team works better. PHI built that think for years and then in a matter of 2 years they trade up for a round 1 WR and then trade a 1st rounder for an established WR. They have the best OC in the game and just drafted his replacement. PHI is a team that knows their OL is making everyone else look better.
If you want to use CIN as an example - show me where Burrow and Chase are.
I have gotten a lot of grief once I started expressing concerns about Neal when his preseason trait of “falling down” kept repeating throughout the season. To my eye, it’s a 6’7” super athlete having balance/footwork issues that aren’t being corrected, even slightly, throughout the season. I know rookie OL tend to struggle Year 1, but something is concerning me about Neal. Yes, I know he had a knee injury, but this problem existed well before the MCL injury and there were whispers before the draft he might be top heavy.
Is it too early to see a potential concern here?
Too early? Yes.
A guy like Neal needs at least 2 years to show progress. And again to repeat myself from last summer -
2023 will be the first time Neal plays the same position 2 years in a row since he was in high school
Thanks. I always had it in my head RT could come in as a rookie mauler and still be modestly successful. Perhaps I expected too much from Neal as he has looked awful to me, at times I wished for Solder back at RT.
The Eagles were 4-11-1 in 2020. Everyone felt they were tanking going into 2021. Massive dead cap number for Wentz. What happened? How are they now one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL?
Jalen Hurts takes over at QB
Maileta takes over at LT
Seumalo missed most of 2020 - injury
Dickerson drafted
Trade up for Devonta Smith
Trade for AJ Brown
The Eagles were 4-11-1 in 2020. Everyone felt they were tanking going into 2021. Massive dead cap number for Wentz. What happened? How are they now one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL?
Jalen Hurts takes over at QB
Maileta takes over at LT
Seumalo missed most of 2020 - injury
Dickerson drafted
Trade up for Devonta Smith
Trade for AJ Brown
All of those are homers moves
Thank you. These next 2 drafts are huge for Schoen.
The Eagles were 4-11-1 in 2020. Everyone felt they were tanking going into 2021. Massive dead cap number for Wentz. What happened? How are they now one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL?
Jalen Hurts takes over at QB
Maileta takes over at LT
Seumalo missed most of 2020 - injury
Dickerson drafted
Trade up for Devonta Smith
Trade for AJ Brown
All of those are homers moves
Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Brandon Graham, and Fletcher Cox reverse course and continue to play at a high level
Gettleman's salary cap gaffe causes Bradberry to end up in Philly
Saints gift Philadelphia a top 10 pick in the upcoming draft
the Schoen made a terrible mistake. I believe that Neal will develop. This year he was a rookie, he worked a RT instead of LT, and he had an injury and lost time. I would be surprised if Schoen was that wrong on Neal.
the Schoen made a terrible mistake. I believe that Neal will develop. This year he was a rookie, he worked a RT instead of LT, and he had an injury and lost time. I would be surprised if Schoen was that wrong on Neal.
The Cowboys had him ranked near the top of their draft board. People need to be patient.
For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
I mentioned the 2005 Giants last night. The Giants were 2 off seasons away from competing for a championship.
That team was 1 corner, 2 defensive lineman, 3 linebackers, and a safety away on defense.
Offense is a little trickier, four of the five starting lineman where in place. Barber, Tyree, and Shockey started, and were replaced for various reasons by 2007.
Point being, sometimes teams build up to a window. I think this team is in a similar place.
For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
Sy, not a WR, but would Mayer help at #25...He could be highest rated player on the board.
RE: RE: Sy - will you be able to give us your thoughts on what the Giants'
offseason plans should be (e.g. current roster FA/ERFA/etc, Free Agent targets, and potential draft targets)?
I know your schedule is incredibly busy, but would love to get your insight on this.
Thanks for all the great work you do!
I lined up a couple things this week. Aiming for game review being out Tuesday, and Jones thoughts Thursday / Friday. Offseason plan in the coming weeks.
That's great SY! I'm looking forward to reading these.
For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
Sy, not a WR, but would Mayer help at #25...He could be highest rated player on the board.
For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
Dave: That's kind of what I thought. Of course, it is unlikely that the Giants will find a guy as good as Chase at #25, but I believe it is incumbent on them to come out of this draft with THE best receiver they can get. And if they were to go with a BPA at another position - and I would certainly look long and hard at an OG like Torrence if he was available, he's that good - then I think they would almost have to trade back up to get one of Hyatt, Tillman, Rice, Downs, or Flowers.
prime picks on them you better get it right. Jury is still out on Schoen with Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan.
Neal the only one a “ prime pick”. Others are late 3 and 5th
Plus I will see who develops first. Ezeudu showed glimpes but holes too
mckethan? Who knows. Think he looked OK in practices
No issue taking a flyer on another OL over first 3rds. Along with the 7 other’s positions we need
I didn't mean to imply that they were all prime picks. I'm just wondering how good Schoen is at evaluating OL. If he's good, then one or two of those guys will work out and our needs won'dt be as great. If he's not so good, we may have Gettleman redux
If the staff has concluded that Neal, Ezeudu, and Glowinski were mistakes, Schoen will have to start planning to move on. Meanwhile, Bobby Johnson and Co. need to coach those guys up to make them whatever they can be
I can one up this. In an orderly, predictable universe, Snee and Diehl actually last as effective players until 2017 and we've probably just replaced Beatty - and who knows what the rest of the team looks like because Nicks and Cruz never get hurt meaning we maybe draft Donald in 2014 instead of Beckham.
^THIS
C is a special position along the line. They have to make the line calls, be able read and adjust more than any other line position. I've long argued that C is the 2nd most important line position.
Choose better players over the course of a 5 year span
Quote:
including round 1
Philly's starting 5 consists of (L to R):
7th rounder, 2nd rounder, 6th rounder, 3rd rounder, 1st rounder.
Pats won a lot of games with a 6th round QB
What is your point?
Quote:
In comment 16008866 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
including round 1
Philly's starting 5 consists of (L to R):
7th rounder, 2nd rounder, 6th rounder, 3rd rounder, 1st rounder.
Pats won a lot of games with a 6th round QB
What is your point?
John Michael Schmitz
Olu Oluwatimi
Luke Wypler
Jarrett Patterson
Ricky Stromberg
One of these guys needs to be a Giant
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
What does contending mean? Being a top team or making the playoffs? If it’s the former than they certainly need better talent. But if it’s the latter they are already there, and will likely be better next year.
Given Jones’ improvement this season, expected improvement from rookie OLs next year, plus the draft and free agency, I think that they can be in the mix next year. Can they hang with the Eagles & Cowboys? We’ll see what the team looks like next year.
The fact that they overachieved this season is a positive. Yet sometimes I think people see it as a negative.
Quote:
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
Quote:
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
What does contending mean? Being a top team or making the playoffs? If it’s the former than they certainly need better talent. But if it’s the latter they are already there, and will likely be better next year.
Given Jones’ improvement this season, expected improvement from rookie OLs next year, plus the draft and free agency, I think that they can be in the mix next year. Can they hang with the Eagles & Cowboys? We’ll see what the team looks like next year.
The fact that they overachieved this season is a positive. Yet sometimes I think people see it as a negative.
My personal definition? You're winning your division and finishing as a top-3 seed in the conference.
Giants need to look at trading down in RD 1 to accumulate more 2nd-4th rd picks. We are needing and 86, 89 type draft here.
I know your schedule is incredibly busy, but would love to get your insight on this.
Thanks for all the great work you do!
It will cost a lot to have 5 dominant OL. Not saying it is a bad idea but how do you pay a #1 WR and have a defense if that much money is allocated to the OL. They could do it on rookie contracts and then let the guys walk as freeagents.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Years? I disagree too. Look at the Bengals, they were 2-14 in 2019. I never buy the multi year builds in the NFL. Bengals are a great example.
The Giants are in the second tier of NFC teams behind PHI, DAL & SF imo.
If you think they are years away, you should just come out and say they should let Jones walk. Because look at Burrow and the Bengals.
I have gotten a lot of grief once I started expressing concerns about Neal when his preseason trait of “falling down” kept repeating throughout the season. To my eye, it’s a 6’7” super athlete having balance/footwork issues that aren’t being corrected, even slightly, throughout the season. I know rookie OL tend to struggle Year 1, but something is concerning me about Neal. Yes, I know he had a knee injury, but this problem existed well before the MCL injury and there were whispers before the draft he might be top heavy.
Is it too early to see a potential concern here?
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
The good news(in a sense) is that they still need more quality players at several positions then they can draft. So whomever(BPA) is available at #25 is likely an improvement over what is already on the team.
But the best teams in the NFL do one of two things: they almost all throw the ball really well or disrupt the other team's pass offense. I really think that the key for the Giants going forward is just how good the DL can be because their is a ton of potential. Think the Giants won ten games this year with Williams, Thibo and Ojulari combining for just 11 sacks when quite literally each has the potential to post that many on their own. As I have said elsewhere I would be sorely tempted to go after someone like USC's Tuipulotu either in the first or by trading up in the 2nd if I went WR in the first. He could play a DE in early downs to give you a whole lot more size upfront and then kick inside on passing downs.
But most importantly give me a couple of good receiving options either however you do it and combined with Jones, Saquon and Bellinger we would have a very competitive offense to boot.
I really believe its going to fun going forward in these next 3-4 years.
Quote:
In comment 16009303 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
They don’t need a perfect roster to be a contender.
Quote:
In comment 16009303 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Couldn’t disagree more, my friend.. a few key pieces, this coaching staff..No reason why we can’t contend next season. How far we go is always dependent on the usual disclaimers
"A few key pieces" is what I mean
A corner (maybe 2), another pass rusher (maybe 2), two or three receivers, 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 LB.
All in one offseason....right as they are about to pay a RB, QB, OT, and DT a combined....$80-90 million per year?
I know they are closer than they were last year - but looking at SF, PHI, KC, CIN, BUF...the contrast in overall roster quality and depth is enormous. They are heading in the right direction, but odds are everyone will need to look at 2 more years of personnel movement, not one.
And that 2 years is *if* they make the right personnel decisions in free agency, the draft, and re-signing/extending their own players each year (most of the time).
in the NFL - just my opinion - this is the hardest leap to make (from mediocre to contender - consistent contender), and if you fail to make it you wind up back on the bottom or in NFL team purgatory where you are not good enough to contend but also not bad enough to add the best impact players.
Based on the 2022 draft I have faith that the front office will do their job. The And now that Schoen has cap space he can sign free agents.
I know your schedule is incredibly busy, but would love to get your insight on this.
Thanks for all the great work you do!
I lined up a couple things this week. Aiming for game review being out Tuesday, and Jones thoughts Thursday / Friday. Offseason plan in the coming weeks.
But the best teams in the NFL do one of two things: they almost all throw the ball really well or disrupt the other team's pass offense. I really think that the key for the Giants going forward is just how good the DL can be because their is a ton of potential. Think the Giants won ten games this year with Williams, Thibo and Ojulari combining for just 11 sacks when quite literally each has the potential to post that many on their own. As I have said elsewhere I would be sorely tempted to go after someone like USC's Tuipulotu either in the first or by trading up in the 2nd if I went WR in the first. He could play a DE in early downs to give you a whole lot more size upfront and then kick inside on passing downs.
But most importantly give me a couple of good receiving options either however you do it and combined with Jones, Saquon and Bellinger we would have a very competitive offense to boot.
I really believe its going to fun going forward in these next 3-4 years.
Could be an interesting thread to follow live!
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and look at this conversation alone. And reflect on / realize how far away they are from a credible contending roster.
"Anything can happen" I know I know
But this is why I think they're yearS away
Years? I disagree too. Look at the Bengals, they were 2-14 in 2019. I never buy the multi year builds in the NFL. Bengals are a great example.
The Giants are in the second tier of NFC teams behind PHI, DAL & SF imo.
If you think they are years away, you should just come out and say they should let Jones walk. Because look at Burrow and the Bengals.
Burrow is the 2nd best QB in football and they picked the best WR prospect we have seen in years. In the top 5.
Tough to use that as a comparison.
I have gotten a lot of grief once I started expressing concerns about Neal when his preseason trait of “falling down” kept repeating throughout the season. To my eye, it’s a 6’7” super athlete having balance/footwork issues that aren’t being corrected, even slightly, throughout the season. I know rookie OL tend to struggle Year 1, but something is concerning me about Neal. Yes, I know he had a knee injury, but this problem existed well before the MCL injury and there were whispers before the draft he might be top heavy.
Is it too early to see a potential concern here?
Too early? Yes.
A guy like Neal needs at least 2 years to show progress. And again to repeat myself from last summer -
2023 will be the first time Neal plays the same position 2 years in a row since he was in high school
Joe Burrow is one reason. But when you get a coaching staff that can coach, they can take players that people thought were deficient and clean them up. Then they got Ja'mar Chase on top of Tee Higgins...Many of the pieces were there. Just had to be tuned up.
But the best teams in the NFL do one of two things: they almost all throw the ball really well or disrupt the other team's pass offense. I really think that the key for the Giants going forward is just how good the DL can be because their is a ton of potential. Think the Giants won ten games this year with Williams, Thibo and Ojulari combining for just 11 sacks when quite literally each has the potential to post that many on their own. As I have said elsewhere I would be sorely tempted to go after someone like USC's Tuipulotu either in the first or by trading up in the 2nd if I went WR in the first. He could play a DE in early downs to give you a whole lot more size upfront and then kick inside on passing downs.
But most importantly give me a couple of good receiving options either however you do it and combined with Jones, Saquon and Bellinger we would have a very competitive offense to boot.
I really believe its going to fun going forward in these next 3-4 years.
Colin, unfortunately we are closer to the same page than you think. WR is my top need for NYG. CB is second. Pass rusher is 3rd.
But I bring up OL because if there is the right value, I am going in the direction. I will not overlook OL just because I need a WR more. A team like NYG needs to take value where it is given. My point of that tweet was simple.
If NYG can get an OL like PHI - every player on that team works better. PHI built that think for years and then in a matter of 2 years they trade up for a round 1 WR and then trade a 1st rounder for an established WR. They have the best OC in the game and just drafted his replacement. PHI is a team that knows their OL is making everyone else look better.
If you want to use CIN as an example - show me where Burrow and Chase are.
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Sy,
I have gotten a lot of grief once I started expressing concerns about Neal when his preseason trait of “falling down” kept repeating throughout the season. To my eye, it’s a 6’7” super athlete having balance/footwork issues that aren’t being corrected, even slightly, throughout the season. I know rookie OL tend to struggle Year 1, but something is concerning me about Neal. Yes, I know he had a knee injury, but this problem existed well before the MCL injury and there were whispers before the draft he might be top heavy.
Is it too early to see a potential concern here?
Too early? Yes.
A guy like Neal needs at least 2 years to show progress. And again to repeat myself from last summer -
2023 will be the first time Neal plays the same position 2 years in a row since he was in high school
Thanks. I always had it in my head RT could come in as a rookie mauler and still be modestly successful. Perhaps I expected too much from Neal as he has looked awful to me, at times I wished for Solder back at RT.
Jalen Hurts takes over at QB
Maileta takes over at LT
Seumalo missed most of 2020 - injury
Dickerson drafted
Trade up for Devonta Smith
Trade for AJ Brown
All of those are homers moves
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The Eagles were 4-11-1 in 2020. Everyone felt they were tanking going into 2021. Massive dead cap number for Wentz. What happened? How are they now one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL?
Jalen Hurts takes over at QB
Maileta takes over at LT
Seumalo missed most of 2020 - injury
Dickerson drafted
Trade up for Devonta Smith
Trade for AJ Brown
All of those are homers moves
Thank you. These next 2 drafts are huge for Schoen.
Guilty. Neal had some very rough games to watch, even keeping in mind he is a rookie.
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The Eagles were 4-11-1 in 2020. Everyone felt they were tanking going into 2021. Massive dead cap number for Wentz. What happened? How are they now one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL?
Jalen Hurts takes over at QB
Maileta takes over at LT
Seumalo missed most of 2020 - injury
Dickerson drafted
Trade up for Devonta Smith
Trade for AJ Brown
All of those are homers moves
Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Brandon Graham, and Fletcher Cox reverse course and continue to play at a high level
Gettleman's salary cap gaffe causes Bradberry to end up in Philly
Saints gift Philadelphia a top 10 pick in the upcoming draft
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That’s nuts
Guilty. Neal had some very rough games to watch, even keeping in mind he is a rookie.
Rookie OL’s struggle - that is nothing new. At least Neal can run block. Solder was always terrible.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
The Cowboys had him ranked near the top of their draft board. People need to be patient.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
That team was 1 corner, 2 defensive lineman, 3 linebackers, and a safety away on defense.
Offense is a little trickier, four of the five starting lineman where in place. Barber, Tyree, and Shockey started, and were replaced for various reasons by 2007.
Point being, sometimes teams build up to a window. I think this team is in a similar place.
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For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
Sy, not a WR, but would Mayer help at #25...He could be highest rated player on the board.
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offseason plans should be (e.g. current roster FA/ERFA/etc, Free Agent targets, and potential draft targets)?
I know your schedule is incredibly busy, but would love to get your insight on this.
Thanks for all the great work you do!
I lined up a couple things this week. Aiming for game review being out Tuesday, and Jones thoughts Thursday / Friday. Offseason plan in the coming weeks.
That's great SY! I'm looking forward to reading these.
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In comment 16009403 Colin@gbn said:
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For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
Sy, not a WR, but would Mayer help at #25...He could be highest rated player on the board.
Kincaid would make more sense
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For the record, I believe Burrow and Chase are on their way to KC to play in the AFC championship.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's the deal though. You keep the Eagles OL and give me Brown and Smith and we'll see.
'
My reference to Burrow / Chase was in relation to the NYG roster
I am aware a combo of Burrow and Chase would do wonders for any team. My point is - neither are walking through that door. And it would be silly to think they are finding Chase at #25 overall or anywhere near it.
Dave: That's kind of what I thought. Of course, it is unlikely that the Giants will find a guy as good as Chase at #25, but I believe it is incumbent on them to come out of this draft with THE best receiver they can get. And if they were to go with a BPA at another position - and I would certainly look long and hard at an OG like Torrence if he was available, he's that good - then I think they would almost have to trade back up to get one of Hyatt, Tillman, Rice, Downs, or Flowers.
Sy, not a WR, but would Mayer help at #25...He could be highest rated player on the board.
Kincaid would make more sense
Thanks
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prime picks on them you better get it right. Jury is still out on Schoen with Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan.
Neal the only one a “ prime pick”. Others are late 3 and 5th
Plus I will see who develops first. Ezeudu showed glimpes but holes too
mckethan? Who knows. Think he looked OK in practices
No issue taking a flyer on another OL over first 3rds. Along with the 7 other’s positions we need
I didn't mean to imply that they were all prime picks. I'm just wondering how good Schoen is at evaluating OL. If he's good, then one or two of those guys will work out and our needs won'dt be as great. If he's not so good, we may have Gettleman redux